Macross Frontier Episode 20 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[magnuskn]

She said they're out to accomplish something that the protoculture could not do in 500,000 years. I think Grace is heading to the center of the galaxy to find GOD. AS ridiculous as it sounds what if it is GOD that is at the center of the Galaxy?

What then?

Ask him if he needs a spaceship, obviously.

[aerocombatpilot]

Ask him if he needs a spaceship, obviously.

NO! Ask him to PLEASE return Hikaru, Misa, Minnay, Claudia, Roy, Kim, Sammie, Vanessa, and the rest of the original Macross crew!!

[Master Dex]

Ask him if he needs a spaceship, obviously.

Although that is my least favorite ST movie, that is a really good line.

[dreamweaver13]

It has been said that the actual events of Space War I are "somewhere between the tv series and the movie". The "visual canon" and "story canon" explanation for reconciling the movie and tv series is a simplification. Given numerous flashbacks to SW1 directed at the viewer, depicting DYRL events, it is safe to assume some of those events occurred. Dismissing DYRL outright, when we know it is in such a grey area and not entirely relegated to "movie within the series" status would be silly.

Also, consider this, DYRL as the movie within the Macross universe is considered a historical movie, much like we'd look at Pearl Harbor. Now, if it is impossible for a human to get macronized in the Macross universe, that would be a pretty big (no pun intended) gaffe for the production crew to make. It would be akin to Ben Affleck strapping on a jet pack in the aforementioned Bay movie. As I said earlier, we've also seen zolans macronized (so to answer your question Cybergig1, it has been possible for Mikhail, who was revealed at some point to be a zolan, to be macronized), so even dismissing DYRL that's two of the three Protoculture races we know of that can be macronized.

But wait, there's more! In 'The Galaxy is Calling Me!' we clearly see Emillia, a half-human/half-meltrandi has been macronized. It's been stated that humans and zentradi are almost identical, biologically, certainly close enough that the two races can interbreed. Zentradi cloning was used to beef up the human population for several decades after SW1.

Now, if it is possible, why isn't everyone macronized, at least once for fun? The answer to that should be obvious. Economics. We've no idea how much the process costs, but considering the amount of mass added to a macronized individual it's probably significant. Also, living macronized like that has to be exponentially more expensive than living as a micron.

Given all that, the safe assumption is that humans can be macronized just like zentradi and zolans.

Zentraedi have relatively stronger bone structures, and more resistant phsyical attirbutes then the average human, whether micronized and macronized. they were probably built/evolved that way by the protoculture so that they can withstand being a giant soldier.

i would like to think that when a normal human is macronized, his bones would not be strong enough and would crumble under the pressure of his own weight. (much like an article i read that a giant insect is not scientifically possible since its frail legs would give in to its own increased mass). just my thought on the matter. that, and the fact that i've never seen a macronized human before in macross canon (movie aside) and that characters automatically assume that a giant is a "zentraedi", and not simply a macronized human. i don't think it's just a matter of economics, as you suggested, but of actual physical attributes. if a human can simply be macronized, then why the need to differentiate between the physical attirbutes of a human and a zentraedi?

Edited August 26, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[dreamweaver13]

NO! Ask him to PLEASE return Hikaru, Misa, Minnay, Claudia, Roy, Kim, Sammie, Vanessa, and the rest of the original Macross crew!!

to which he would reply: SORRY GUYS, NO CAN DO. JESUS IS STILL UTTERLY FASCINATED BY THEM. (HE KEEPS ASKING THEM TO RE-ENACT EPISODE 35. HE'S A SUCKER FOR THESE TRIANGLES.).

[RF-26AAC]

to which he would reply: SORRY GUYS, NO CAN DO. JESUS IS STILL UTTERLY FASCINATED BY THEM. (HE KEEPS ASKING THEM TO RE-ENACT EPISODE 35. HE'S A SUCKER FOR THESE TRIANGLES.).

That was my 2nd ROFL of the day, the first was seeing Exedol sing "My boyfriend is a pilot" XD ROFLCOPTER

"ehhh kyuuun kyyuuuunn, kyuuuun kyuuuuuuunn.." god, the pantomime that went with it was the best.\

But in all seriousness what, short of either finding god or (taking a page from the human instrumentality project) unifying humanity through transcendence onto the next plane of existince, could Grace have been talking about with "we are doing what the protoculture couldn't accomplish in 500,000 years of history" and so on?

Edited August 26, 2008 by RF-26AAC

[dreamweaver13]

That was my 2nd ROFL of the day, the first was seeing Exedol sing "My boyfriend is a pilot" XD ROFLCOPTER

"ehhh kyuuun kyyuuuunn, kyuuuun kyuuuuuuunn.." god, the pantomime that went with it was the best.\

But in all seriousness what, short of either finding god or (taking a page from the human instrumentality project) unifying humanity through transcendence onto the next plane of existince, could Grace have been talking about with "we are doing what the protoculture couldn't accomplish in 500,000 years of history" and so on?

hmmm... possibilities:

1) Unlimited/instantaneous fold technology

2) Domination of the whole universe

3) immortality

4) annhilation of the vajra (hey, maybe the Vajra predated the protoculture, it's a possibility)

i'm sure there are a lot of others.

[Gubaba]

As I recently mentioned elsewhere, I'm worried that the next episode has a Japanese title...only two original SDFM episodes had titles in Japanese, "Love Drifts Away" and "Farewell to Tenderness."

Something big is happening this week, I'll wager...

[akt_m]

Just rewatched again this ep. Probably this is the second (or third if you include DYRL) best Macross ever made. Better than Plus and 7 for sure.

[Morpheus]

As I recently mentioned elsewhere, I'm worried that the next episode has a Japanese title...only two original SDFM episodes had titles in Japanese, "Love Drifts Away" and "Farewell to Tenderness."

Something big is happening this week, I'll wager...

Something big....like rage of a 50ft woman named Klan?

I wonder if bugspray could work with vajra's.....bio-weapon is best used against biological entyty/weapon right?

[David Hingtgen]

Just rewatched again this ep. Probably this is the second (or third if you include DYRL) best Macross ever made. Better than Plus and 7 for sure.

I currently rank it only below Plus.

[Keith]

I want to wait to make sure we don't get an Arjuna or Aquarion ending before ranking it. Zero had the Escaflowne ending already, so this ones up in the air. Actually, Zero is the only different ending in the franchise, TV, DYRL, Plus, 7, & Dynamite all had similar styles of endings.

I'm really crossing my fingers for no Arjuna ending

Edited August 27, 2008 by Keith

[Morpheus]

I want to wait to make sure we don't get an Arjuna or Aquarion ending before ranking it. Zero had the Escaflowne ending already, so this ones up in the air. Actually, Zero is the only different ending in the franchise, TV, DYRL, Plus, 7, & Dynamite all had similar styles of endings.

I'm really crossing my fingers for no Arjuna ending

What about Aquarion ending?

[Black Valkyrie]

I don`t think he`ll be back, knowing the previous series no body made it. One more thing I bet one more will die, like SDF Mac. and Mac-7.

[Keith]

What about Aquarion ending?

Aquarion & Arjuna are pretty much the same crap getting beat out of/death ending. Don't suppose the OVA ended any better?

[Shaka_Z]

Zentraedi have relatively stronger bone structures, and more resistant phsyical attirbutes then the average human, whether micronized and macronized. they were probably built/evolved that way by the protoculture so that they can withstand being a giant soldier.

this much goes without saying. I have to wonder though if the Zentran/Meltran were originally developed from ancient human stock or not, considering the whole 'interbreeding compatibility' angle. it would seem very likely.

i would like to think that when a normal human is macronized, his bones would not be strong enough and would crumble under the pressure of his own weight. (much like an article i read that a giant insect is not scientifically possible since its frail legs would give in to its own increased mass). just my thought on the matter. that, and the fact that i've never seen a macronized human before in macross canon (movie aside) and that characters automatically assume that a giant is a "zentraedi", and not simply a macronized human. i don't think it's just a matter of economics, as you suggested, but of actual physical attributes. if a human can simply be macronized, then why the need to differentiate between the physical attirbutes of a human and a zentraedi?

this idea is quite reasonable... one quibble though - using insects as an example is not the best idea, as fossilized remains of giant insects have in fact been found (dragonflies among others iirc). insect size is more dependent on oxygen levels in the atmosphere from what I remember, as they breathe through their traechea, which doesn't function very well past a certain size in modern atmospheric conditions.

[Repiv_Onex]

I currently rank it only below Plus.

Let me guess, because it lacks the valkyrie to valkyire combat like Plus?

What about Aquarion ending?

Aquarion ending is nice to me, but I don't think it will fit into the Macross "style"

I think Grace is heading to the center of the galaxy to find GOD

I like this kind of "theme"(sorry for my bad Eng, can't find a suitable word )

Just like I Love Atlus' Shin Megami Tensei game, Digital Devil Saga, Persona etc. (I'm a free-thinker)

[Final Vegeta]

Aquarion & Arjuna are pretty much the same crap getting beat out of/death ending. Don't suppose the OVA ended any better?

FYI the OVA ended differently from the TV series. It should be, since Sirius is dead from the start.

Anyway, in my case it's not the ending, it's the climax that matters. I just don't like the ending if the main character dies without saving anyone, but aside from that I can accept most endings. The climax is the most important part, though. When we got two armies that keep getting stronger, I find unsatisfying a victory due to superior physical strength, because it would be like a victory of luck in getting the favorable swing of chance. Therefore a transversal victory looks better.

In the final episode of Frontier probably all weapons will be useless against Vajra, so the climax surely won't be resolved by strength.

FV

[Master Dex]

this much goes without saying. I have to wonder though if the Zentran/Meltran were originally developed from ancient human stock or not, considering the whole 'interbreeding compatibility' angle. it would seem very likely.

this idea is quite reasonable... one quibble though - using insects as an example is not the best idea, as fossilized remains of giant insects have in fact been found (dragonflies among others iirc). insect size is more dependent on oxygen levels in the atmosphere from what I remember, as they breathe through their traechea, which doesn't function very well past a certain size in modern atmospheric conditions.

Also something to remember, Komilia had strong bones due to being a Zentradi-Human hybrid so it stands to very good reason that Zentradi have even stronger bones.

[s001]

FYI the OVA ended differently from the TV series. It should be, since Sirius is dead from the start.

In the final episode of Frontier probably all weapons will be useless against Vajra, so the climax surely won't be resolved by strength.

FV

And that will be the LAMEST thing ever!!!

[Final Vegeta]

And that will be the LAMEST thing ever!!!

I dunno... it happened the same in all the other Macross, can't expect it to be different

FV

[Repiv_Onex]

Also something to remember, Komilia had strong bones due to being a Zentradi-Human hybrid so it stands to very good reason that Zentradi have even stronger bones.

A Saiyan-Earthling "hybrid" is able to transform into a Super Saiyan at an age of 9, that's what never happens to a pure Saiyan in the Saiyan History.

Don't hit me. *Hides

[Kronnang Dunn]

After watching Elmo Kridanik in the shelter scene I believe is obvious that he will become Sheryl's new manager...

Edited August 27, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Gubaba]

And that will be the LAMEST thing ever!!!

Oh come on...I've said it before, I'll say it again...the fourth ironclad rule of Macross is that the power of love and song will overcome all.

[whispo]

Oh come on...I've said it before, I'll say it again...the fourth ironclad rule of Macross is that the power of love and song will overcome all.

What are the others?

[Gubaba]

What are the others?

The three ironclad Macross rules? You know 'em all, I'm sure:

1. The series must have planes that transform into robots.

2. There must be a love triangle.

3. There must be singing.

and, of course, the unofficial one:

4. The power of love and song must overcome all obstacles. (Except, um...for the characters that die. And Mayan Island. And the Earth. And Planet Lux.)

[Kronnang Dunn]

The three ironclad Macross rules? You know 'em all, I'm sure:

1. The series must have planes that transform into robots.

2. There must be a love triangle.

3. There must be singing.

and, of course, the unofficial one:

4. The power of love and song must overcome all obstacles. (Except, um...for the characters that die. And Mayan Island. And the Earth. And Planet Lux.)

You forgot Galia IV...

[Gubaba]

You forgot Galia IV...

Well, of course I did. It's not like there was anything important there or anything...

[dreamweaver13]

Well, of course I did. It's not like there was anything important there or anything...

yup, absolutely nothing important or striking or memorable there at all. now let me get back to repressing my memories, please.

[Morpheus]

Epi.21 is airing tonight, so move on people and lets not forget it:

R.I.P. Michel, may your eternal sleep not be disturbed by fan-atics and "Mwu" plot.

[Lethalzero]

and, of course, the unofficial one:

4. The power of love and song must overcome all obstacles. (Except, um...for the characters that die. And Mayan Island. And the Earth. And Planet Lux.)

i guess this what seperates macross saga from other series

its teh singing

[Vinnie]

Epi.21 is airing tonight, so move on people and lets not forget it:

R.I.P. Michel, may your eternal sleep not be disturbed by fan-atics and "Mwu" plot.

He may still be alive in the Fufonfia universe? Perhaps he's the company's silver tounged legal consultant or genius marketing executive? And while Ranka is the coffee machine girl, he's the cappacino machine guy. One shot, one fill!

Like a shot of espresso and then fill it with cream, and the sniper saying...nevermind.

[Gubaba]

He may still be alive in the Fufonfia universe? Perhaps he's the company's silver tounged legal consultant or genius marketing executive? And while Ranka is the coffee machine girl, he's the cappacino machine guy. One shot, one fill!

Like a shot of espresso and then fill it with cream, and the sniper saying...nevermind.

In the next episode, he'll probably get crushed with paperwork and then fall out the window...

But I'm guessing he'll still remain one of the hosts of Macross F○※△.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Oh come on...I've said it before, I'll say it again...the fourth ironclad rule of Macross is that the power of love and song will overcome all.

love will save your heart and the world, right Gubaba?

[VF-25S Full Armour]

SkullLeaderVF-X, judging by our avatar, I must say, you've got taste.