Macross Frontier Episode 20 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[dreamweaver13]

Didn't remember seeing this mentioned so I'll say it:

Ai-kun killed Michel! And Michel killed Ai-kun!

well considering that Ai-kun has broken off into hundreds of vajra drones, i'd say that Ai-Kun is killing everyone and EVERYONE is killing Ai-Kun.

[dreamweaver13]

they could pull a Gandalf

I, too, am terrified by your avatar.

at the very least, it's the perfect pic to show die-hard ranka fans. this is the girl you like so much?? looks like a hayao miyazaki reject. hehe.

[Keith]

After the whole Global thing, I'm not willing to 100% write off Michel yet, hell, Alto never even got a chacne to get revenge on him for the ass whoopin' he got. Galaxy/Bilner/Grace created cyborg Michel is still a possability.

As for Klan being untouchable, bullshit, I'd hop on down to the Zentradi mall, macronize myself, and hit that giant booty in an instant. Simple problems require simple solutions!

[Bri]

As for Klan being untouchable, bullshit, I'd hop on down to the Zentradi mall, macronize myself, and hit that giant booty in an instant. Simple problems require simple solutions!

Hmm, Well if you have some green haired ancestors that like to kill stuff you might have a shot at macronisation.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Bri

[Radd]

Wow. I watched the episode the moment it came out, but I haven't been by the forum for a few days. Have to say I'm pretty shocked by some of the reactions here.

For my own part, I thought the episode was fantastic. As always, I can't wait for the next episode, but more than that I'm also really hyped to see where the series is going. Leon's plot seems to be back on track, Grace seems to be plotting behind his back, Frontier is in ruins, SMS headquarters seems to be in ruins, and we've had two tragic deaths. The series is absolutely brilliant so far, and it looks like things are just going to get even more interesting as we head down the final stretch into the last 6 episodes.

[Radd]

Hmm, Well if you have some green haired ancestors that like to kill stuff you might have a shot at macronisation And no, uncles that look like the hulk don't count.

Er....? You do realize that humans can be macronized, right? Zolans, too, for that matter.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Radd

[DarkReaper]

Depends on if the macronized Max we saw in DYRL is canon in Universe or not, otherwise we weren't explicitely shown a human being macronized.

Besides I bet everyone would have had himself macronized at least once just for fun then.

[Bri]

yea, sofar we haven't seen any humans get macronised in any Macross, only a Zolan. DYRL is an in universe movie so can't really place value on it. Might aswell accept that Linn Kaifuns superpowers are real too.

[sucker4meltrans]

Kaifun super powers? since when was alcoholism, asshatery, and beating women super powers?

[RedWolf]

Kaifun super powers? since when was alcoholism, asshatery, and beating women super powers?

Not to mention creating a rip-off band of the originals. (Fire Bomber American)

Fortunately Macross 11 is at the rim while Macross 7 is at core regions of the galaxy.

[Bri]

I was refering to the movie in SDFM, Shao Pain Lon, where Linn Kaifun played some Kung Fu hero with special powers.

[magnuskn]

Not to mention creating a rip-off band of the originals. (Fire Bomber American)

Fortunately Macross 11 is at the rim while Macross 7 is at core regions of the galaxy.

Beg pardon? When did Kaifun create a rip-off of Fire Bomber? Some console game?

[RedWolf]

Beg pardon? When did Kaifun create a rip-off of Fire Bomber? Some console game?

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Fire_Bomber_American

Fire Bomber American is a rock band that performs on the English-speaking ship Macross 11. They are managed and produced by Lynn Kaifunn, and have one album, called English Fire!!

Members

* Kcool V Realy: Keyboards

* Rak Nabekasi: Guitar, vocals

* June Ley Mines: Bass, vocals

* Five Fads: Drums

I think it's a M7 manga where Fire Bomber finds out that there is a rip-off band of them.

You can hear their music played in a black market arms smugglers den in Macross Dynamite 7.

Quite popular with pirates ironically.

[wolfx]

they could pull a Gandalf

Or a gamlin.

[Cybergig1]

Maybe at the start of episode 21, Klan will wake up and it will turn out that the last episode was just a dream...?

haha you know that would actually work and make it easily explainable! sadly I doubt it'll happen ;_; but like others have said theres still a small shred of hope. But I dont wanna think about it so that if it happens I'll be caught off guard

correct me if I'm wrong but could have swore I've read on numerous sources that DYRL was considered "visual cannon" and the tv series itself was the story cannon. Which would mean the whole human being macronized thing was as many have mentioned just for the in universe movie. Just seems to me if Michel could have gone that route he would have long ago so that he could have tried his hand with Klan. He always acted like it was an impossibility though

[lord_zed]

Wow excellant episode, once again Frontier differs from the original Macross, and proves its no 25th aniversary rehash.

I wonder to about the macronization of humans, it does seem likely that outside of DYRL it's impossible. While were thinking about that, I wonder why Zentradi infants aren't micronized, it seems they would be a liability to all the non giants around them, (accidental squishing etc). Although I imagine they can't undergo the process till they reach maturity.

Seeing the VF 27 take of without a pilot was awesome to, looks like the YF21's system was eventualy perfected, at least for cyborgs.

[Radd]

It has been said that the actual events of Space War I are "somewhere between the tv series and the movie". The "visual canon" and "story canon" explanation for reconciling the movie and tv series is a simplification. Given numerous flashbacks to SW1 directed at the viewer, depicting DYRL events, it is safe to assume some of those events occurred. Dismissing DYRL outright, when we know it is in such a grey area and not entirely relegated to "movie within the series" status would be silly.

Also, consider this, DYRL as the movie within the Macross universe is considered a historical movie, much like we'd look at Pearl Harbor. Now, if it is impossible for a human to get macronized in the Macross universe, that would be a pretty big (no pun intended) gaffe for the production crew to make. It would be akin to Ben Affleck strapping on a jet pack in the aforementioned Bay movie. As I said earlier, we've also seen zolans macronized (so to answer your question Cybergig1, it has been possible for Mikhail, who was revealed at some point to be a zolan, to be macronized), so even dismissing DYRL that's two of the three Protoculture races we know of that can be macronized.

But wait, there's more! In 'The Galaxy is Calling Me!' we clearly see Emillia, a half-human/half-meltrandi has been macronized. It's been stated that humans and zentradi are almost identical, biologically, certainly close enough that the two races can interbreed. Zentradi cloning was used to beef up the human population for several decades after SW1.

Now, if it is possible, why isn't everyone macronized, at least once for fun? The answer to that should be obvious. Economics. We've no idea how much the process costs, but considering the amount of mass added to a macronized individual it's probably significant. Also, living macronized like that has to be exponentially more expensive than living as a micron.

Given all that, the safe assumption is that humans can be macronized just like zentradi and zolans.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Radd

[Cybergig1]

makes sense to me. So I guess we can go with the idea of he didn't macronize himself more in line with his whole "I'm too much of a coward to go after real love" attitude as to why he didn't pursue such a choice. But yeah totally makes sense on the whole economical side too as to why he and not many others are running around macronized. Whatever his reason though clears up wether he could or not. I just know I'd seen other threads debating if he was even a Zolan or not. Though he's got to be something with those crazy ears so I for one believe he's at least mixed Zolan or something.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Cybergig1

[MisaForever]

Hey MisaForever, I don't mean to put you in the spot and I don't know if this has been brought up to you before, but if you had to choose between Misa and Klan which on would you pick??.

I plead the 5th

[Bri]

It has been said that the actual events of Space War I are "somewhere between the tv series and the movie". The "visual canon" and "story canon" explanation for reconciling the movie and tv series is a simplification. Given numerous flashbacks to SW1 directed at the viewer, depicting DYRL events, it is safe to assume some of those events occurred. Dismissing DYRL outright, when we know it is in such a grey area and not entirely relegated to "movie within the series" status would be silly.

Also, consider this, DYRL as the movie within the Macross universe is considered a historical movie, much like we'd look at Pearl Harbor. Now, if it is impossible for a human to get macronized in the Macross universe, that would be a pretty big (no pun intended) gaffe for the production crew to make. It would be akin to Ben Affleck strapping on a jet pack in the aforementioned Bay movie. As I said earlier, we've also seen zolans macronized (so to answer your question Cybergig1, it has been possible for Mikhail, who was revealed at some point to be a zolan, to be macronized), so even dismissing DYRL that's two of the three Protoculture races we know of that can be macronized.

But wait, there's more! In 'The Galaxy is Calling Me!' we clearly see Emillia, a half-human/half-meltrandi has been macronized. It's been stated that humans and zentradi are almost identical, biologically, certainly close enough that the two races can interbreed. Zentradi cloning was used to beef up the human population for several decades after SW1.

Now, if it is possible, why isn't everyone macronized, at least once for fun? The answer to that should be obvious. Economics. We've no idea how much the process costs, but considering the amount of mass added to a macronized individual it's probably significant. Also, living macronized like that has to be exponentially more expensive than living as a micron.

Given all that, the safe assumption is that humans can be macronized just like zentradi and zolans.

It's speculation at best. I'm opposed to reading to much into the DYRL events as they deviate a lot from SDFM. If the DYRL is as accurate as the Bay movie then we can dismiss it pretty much as a reliable source.

Given the historical inaccuraties of the Pearl Harbor movie I'm sure that the only reason that Micheal Bay didn't give Ben Afflec a jet pack was that Ben was afraid to mess up his haircut. .

Sofar there have been no animated examples except DYRL and the writers would have to come up with a damned good reason why far fewer humans then zentradi use the proces.

[Radd]

You're hung up on this folly that DYRL is simply "a movie within the Macross universe", not to mention there's all that other evidence. Call it speculation, but it's more solid than saying it can't be done, to which we have no evidence whatsoever, and evidence to the contrary. Logically, it's currently the most reasonable assumption that humans can be macronized.

[Gubaba]

You're hung up on this folly that DYRL is simply "a movie within the Macross universe", not to mention there's all that other evidence. Call it speculation, but it's more solid than saying it can't be done, to which we have no evidence whatsoever, and evidence to the contrary. Logically, it's currently the most reasonable assumption that humans can be macronized.

I agree. After all, Zentradi and humans are genetically identical, so why couldn't it be done?

[Macross1982]

I plead the 5th

LOL I'll let it go then, Hey Gubaba who do you like best Gubaba or Nanase???

[Gubaba]

LOL I'll let it go then, Hey Gubaba who do you like best Gubaba or Nanase???

Duh. Is that a trick question?

Two things you can't say no to: Cute glasses and breasts.

[Shaka_Z]

I agree. After all, Zentradi and humans are genetically identical, so why couldn't it be done?

not identical, but much closer than we are even to the apes and chimpanzees - all the differences are effectively cosmetic, and frankly make your typical meltrandi female much more... physically endowed than the average normal human. not to mention they dont seem to lose their step with age... look at millia - 11 kids and still looks delicious... Max had to actually swear off that booty, cuz he just couldnt seem to be able to *not* make her pregnant. makes you wonder why humanity needed zentran cloning tech at all lol.

sorry... i almost reverted to horny rapper speech there ^^.

[Gubaba]

not identical, but much closer than we are even to the apes and chimpanzees - all the differences are effectively cosmetic, and frankly make your typical meltrandi female much more... physically endowed than the average normal human. not to mention they dont seem to lose their step with age... look at millia - 11 kids and still looks delicious... Max had to actually swear off that booty, cuz he just couldnt seem to be able to *not* make her pregnant. makes you wonder why humanity needed zentran cloning tech at all lol.

sorry... i almost reverted to horny rapper speech there ^^.

Max looks pretty good at 52, too.

And Millia only had seven kids...still nothing to sneeze at, of course. Shammy was the one who pumped out eleven.

[Shaka_Z]

i stand corrected...

lol... dirty thought here - I'm gonna spoiler tag this, so be warned... naughty adult thoughts here ^^:

maybe Max looks so good at 52 because of something meltrandi women.. secrete under certain stimulation... that would be fun

Edited August 26, 2008 by Shaka_Z

[Gubaba]

i stand corrected...

lol... dirty thought here - I'm gonna spoiler tag this, so be warned... naughty adult thoughts here ^^:

maybe Max looks so good at 52 because of something meltrandi women.. secrete under certain stimulation... that would be fun

Hmmm...you may be on to something there...

I wonder what Guld's dad looks like...?

[MisaForever]

Whoever made up these numbers of kids is wacked out.

[Gubaba]

Whoever made up these numbers of kids is wacked out.

...or knows a lot of very traditional Catholic families.

[Macross1982]

Duh. Is that a trick question?

Two things you can't say no to: Cute glasses and breasts.

LOL Very Honest response

[Bri]

You're hung up on this folly that DYRL is simply "a movie within the Macross universe", not to mention there's all that other evidence. Call it speculation, but it's more solid than saying it can't be done, to which we have no evidence whatsoever, and evidence to the contrary. Logically, it's currently the most reasonable assumption that humans can be macronized.

I don't see how you can call DYRL anything else as in the Macross 7 movie, DYRL is confirmed to be an in-universe movie, nothing more. We only know of two cases of non-Zentradi macronisation. One is Max in DYRL which is a movie that significantly differs from SDFM and a Zolan Graham, (who has green hair aswell btw so zentran/meltran ancestors are a possebility, although this very speculative). Still I agree with you that it may not be impossible for humans to get macronised but in practise they don't. You need be (part) Zentradi either to get macronised. Reasons could be legal, cultural or economics or whatever.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Bri

[azrael]

Can we get back on-topic please.

[yaiba]

Still I agree with you that it may not be impossible for humans to get macronised but in practise they don't. You need be (part) Zentradi either to get macronised. Reasons could be legal, cultural or economics or whatever.

I would hazzard that humans don't macronize because they are not set up to function in macronized form. Zentraedi would have to have pretty much superhuman reflexes to compete with human pilots due to the fact that it takes that much longer for a signal from their brain to travel to their muscles. Macronized humans would have really slow reaction times and probably be like giant dojikko, tripping over cars and flattening buildings.

[RF-26AAC]

Back on topic, what's the deal with the "bugger" form Vajra that fly everywhere, we haven't seen them before.

Can we hazard a guess as to whether or not they are spaceflight capable or limited only to atmospheric flight?

We also saw the queen's eye in this one... This contributes more to the starship troopers insect theme given how the things have compound eyes.

It is still yet to be discovered whether the Vajra are a naturally occuring species that is freakin angry with us or if they were developed by the protoculture.

I had a thought regarding Grace's motivation.

She said they're out to accomplish something that the protoculture could not do in 500,000 years. I think

Grace is heading to the center of the galaxy to find GOD. AS ridiculous as it sounds what if it is GOD that is at the center of the Galaxy?

What then?