Rank your Macross pilots

[ruskiiVFaussie]

That is an excellent list, and I'd pretty much agree with all the selections, but I always like to insert a little of my own dramatically motivated statistics where my childhood heroes are concerned. As such, I've always felt (with absolutely no evidence) that when Hikaru thought Misa had been injured or killed by the blast from Quamzin's ship in the final episode of Macross, his anger/emotions momentarily made him untouchable. While always a great pilot, no one, not even Maximilian, could have bested Hikaru in those few minutes. (I like to apply the same "logic" to Luke's final lightsaber duel with Vader at the end of ROTJ even though we've seen better choreographed duels since 1983.) Of course it would be silly, if not impossible, to try to quantify a "best pilot" list with such opinions thrown in.

Agree!

[Final Vegeta]

It's surprising people put Brera so low on this list. Dude, the guy is a cyborg, he has superhuman reflexes. In ep. 09 he wasn't serious, aside from that he never missed a hit once.

FV

[Bri]

Went for a few different options. I tried to ignore the advances in animation that allow more spectacular dogfights in the later series and just focus on my interpretation of the characters as fighter pilots.

1. Maximilian Jenius

2. Milla Fallyna Jenius

3. Hikaru Ichijo

4. Basara Nekki/Chlore

5. Roy Focker/Quamzin Kravshera

6. Isamu Dyson

7. Ozma Lee

9. D.D. Ivanov

10.Nora Polyanski

11.Guld Bowman

12.Gamlin Kizaki

13.Klan Klan

14.Brera Sterne

15.Shin Kudo/Alto Saotome

16.Michael Blanc

I really dislike using "skill" and "best" in one sentance. Skill is for 16 year olds playing a FPS when their reflexes are at their peak. In the real world I'll take a solid dose of determination, experience and plain old viciousness over skill.

-Max and Millia in their prime were the pinacle of (combat) pilots. SK confirmed it so no argument there.

-Hikary on two, as Roy put it, he is a human cockroach. You just can't kill this guy. His luck, determination and combat experience put him at the top. You can shoot him down, you can hurt him, you can make him doubt himself. But in the end he will win and walk away with the girl.

-Nekki Basara, often despised but good at what he does. His defensive skills are insane, draws equal with the zentradis second best pilot. Has more determination and selfconfidance then any other pilot. Took out a Meltran fleet with singing. Takes the win first, fight later concept to an extreme and changes it to sing first and win later and forget about the fighting.

-Roy and Quamzin, two brutally efficient military commanders. They have good piloting skills but what sets them apart is that they are both natural born killers. Both would best pilots far better by sheer nastiness and dirty tricks. As Roy proved versus Ivanov and Quamzin by drawing equal to Hikaru. Their end in DYRL seems poetic justice even if its just a movie in Macross chronology.

- Isamu is a fenomenal pilot, but totally reckless and despised by his comrades in arms. If he had fought in Space war 1, Misa would have blow him out the sky without second thought. He would top my list of "most likely to die to friendly fire". His low placing is due to his character flaws.

-Ozma Lee: a Roy Focker "light"

-Ivanov and Polianski, great pilots but Ivanow is vulnerable when he doesnt have the element of surpirse and Polianskis lack of spacial awareness and temper make her vulnerable.

-Guld flew a brain controlled fighter and has anger management issues that cloud his judgement. Would be higher if not for those issues.

-Gamlin is a great pilot and aprentice to Millia. Carreer soldier with great piloting skills but he is unimaginative and naive. Just wouldn't last against the pilots at the top of this list.

-Klan Klan is a good pilot but not exceptional by Macross standards. Experienced and stable places her over the rest of the MF crew except Ozma.

-Brera flies the most advanced piece of hardware shown in any show sofar and is a cyborg. Hard to say anything about him really, prolly very dangerous in his own machine but if everyone flies the same hardware? Doubt it.

- Shin is far too troubled to use his potential well.

- Alto and Michel are at the bottom of this list because I just can't accept part time fighter pilots that are still in high school doing better then the real deal. I love MF to death the pilots are just not as hot as the ones in the other shows.

Edited August 21, 2008 by Bri

[Final Vegeta]

still i'm the only one thinking about how isamu was the only that could fly a prototype that was killing all of its other test pilots??

Memory may fail me, but I think there was once an old thread about YF-19 VS YF-21 (maybe in the old forums?), and Egan pointed out that it was an OVA thing, while the YF-19 is actually supposed to be very easy to handle I can't access old forums right now though

FV

[Rookie_One]

hmm after compilation by an extremly advanced computer (my own brain) here my list(V.F. pilots, no other mecha) :

1. Maximillian Jenius

2. Milla Fallyna Jenius (no question here)

3. Isamu Dyson (based on his pure piloting skill, since he is the most likely to be hit by "friendly" fire)

4. Hikaru Ichijo (you got to give him some credit somehow)

5. Roy Focker

6. D.D. Ivanov

7. Aegis Focker(why that guy is here? Isamu was crazy enough to assault the Macross, but Aegis was more crazy than him since he attacked Battle 13)

8. Guld Bowman

9. Ozma Lee

10. Alto Saotome(lower than ozma, he has amazing piloting skills but they are often displayed when he is damn angry or desperate enough, in short : he lack consistence)

11. Shin Kudo

12. Michael Blanc

13. Nora Polyanski

13. Brera Sterne

14. Ray Lovelock

15. Gamlin Kizaki

16. Henry Gilliam

17. Luca Angeloni

18. Canaria Berstein

guess who last : Kakizaki Hayao

Edited August 21, 2008 by Rookie_One

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Max admitted that Basara was the better pilot, so I think he'd have to head the list...

I'm sorry Gubaba I read your post, and I all I was able to understand was:

"Max -------- ---- ------ the better pilot- -- - ----- ---- ---- -- ---- --- ---- ---."

My ranking is

1. Maximilian Jenius- Come on. He's a "Jenius"

2. Milla Fallyna Jenius-Every King needs a Queen. And who else to be the Queen of the best?

3. Guld Bowman-Yeah he wasn't a combat pilot, but I don't think there is anybody else who could have flown the YF-21(or any VF) like he did!

4. Isamu Dyson-Cocky?Brash?Yeah, but at least he has the piloting skills to back them up.

5. Basara Nekki-He fricken flew a VF-19 well playing a guitar singing and avoiding enemy fire. I cant even play Gitaroo Man with out the

background action distracting me (Damn you Zoie!)

6. D.D. Ivanov-Taught Focker all he knew.

7. Roy Focker-Taught Hikaru most of what he knew. And was a high functional drunk.If you can drink yourself drunk and still pilot and kick

ass in a Valkyrie, your a capital G God.

8. Shin Kudo-Could have been just as great as Roy,or any of the above, if not for that pesky mysterious fold

9. Hikaru Ichijo- Roy taught him a thing or two. Came into his own as a very respectable pilot (Roy would be proud)and plus he could have

bagged Mimmay, and did bag Misa.

10.Ozma Lee-He's cool and suave like Roy, except he was smart enough not to eat the pineapple salad.Plus he took on a vajra with a knife, cut it's leg off, and threw it at it. Thats captial "G" work right there, just like Roy.

11.Gamlin Kizaki-A special forces pilot? Taught by Queen Millia herself?Could possibly marry Mylene?Friends with Basara?Posses the all

powerful "Gamlin Kick"?Check. How can he not kickass as a pilot (especially since he's now upgraded his VF-17 for a VF-22S)

12.Brera Sterne-Only here because of all his artificial enhancements.Still is a exceptional pilot.Although I feel Alto will dethrone him.......

13.Alto Saotome-Yaio good looks.Makes the two main girls all hot and bothered. Gifted pilot. Has great potential.I feel we will see great

things from him before MF ends.Also I feel he will overcome Brera, even with all his enhancements.

14.Klan Klan-Great pilot.Can hang and fly with the best of them. Smoking hot in Macro form, extremly cute in micro form.Can't go wrong.

15.Michael Blanc-Good pilot, but were he excels are his snipping skills.Able to cap a Vajra in the head in a asteroid field. Has Fockker's

womanizing trait.How can you not like him?

16.Nora Polyanski-Hot,capable pilot, but to me not really an ace, like the rest. Felt if given enough time Shin could have taken her out, as well

Hikaru and any of the rest.

Edited August 21, 2008 by SkullLeaderVF-X

[RF-26AAC]

I just watched Mac Zero and Shin Kudo wasn't all that good; he was good, yes, instinctive, yes, but he never learned to 'feel' his opponents, nor did he ever get good enough to down an SV-51... I guess he figured it out before he folded to the center of the galaxy, but still.

Hikaru was a great pilot and all and maybe surpassed Focker but I'm going to have to say that Isamu Dyson may well top the list, pushing the YF-19 to its absolute limits.

There are other variables to consider though. All things equal, would Alto Saotome be as good as Hikaru Ichijo in a VF-1X?

We probably won't ever know that answer, but I am going to agree here that Maximillian Jenius is probably the single best (most talented) pilot in Macross history.

Frankly, I think Basara Nekki would be a terrible combat pilot, because much like Hikaru in his early days, I think he'd have trouble pulling the trigger when face to face with an enemy.

[cjcastan]

IMHO I don't get why Alto is getting ranked over Michel in most of these lists.

In the first episode it's pretty much stated Michel is the leader of their stunt team because he scored the highest in testing or comes in first over Alto all the time.

Gamlin deserves a little more respect too. Due to all the animation recycling, he had an insane kill count lol.

[DeeBot]

In the first episode it's pretty much stated Michel is the leader of their stunt team because he scored the highest in testing or comes in first over Alto all the time.

Well, we also get the impression that Alto could be better than Michel, if he really tried, but he's just plain reckless. Which is one of the reasons why Michel needles him incessantly.

Besides, in combat, Michel mainly just sits back and picks off targets from a distance. He's not really a dogfighter, which presumably takes more piloting skill.

Besides, he got himself killed.

[ChronoReverse]

Basara might not have killer instinct but he can hit his targets. He used a freaking Speaker Gunpod to great efficacy and only failed against Chloe (near Milia ability). Only Chloe, Milia, Max, Isamu and Guld have actually demonstrated flying maneuvers at or above the level of Basara.

[Avngr]

yup. your quote:

The reason Max was considered a genius could be more to the fact that he got the skills of a trained and experienced pilot with so little instruction time, wich doesn't necessarily makes him the best pilot of all time...

but from your reaction, i take it that you were questioning his "best.pilot.ever" status not against the younger generation, but against other races. so if he's not the best ever, and the younger ones (macplus, mac7 and pac F) are out of the picture, to whom are you bestowing the title of "best ever"?

Oh I see, what I tried to say with all time was pre-space war I pilots included.

A combat manouver pulled on space, like, let's say, a cobra ( the one the russian fighters are famous for ) is easily done in the space, you can make it at any speed you are "flying" at. Now, the same manouver, in an atmosphere, if done fast, let's say, in the same speed like you would do in space, would actually take all your blood away from your brain, making you faint. Depending on your speed, not only you could break your plane ( like we say Nora and Shin loosing speed in the last episode of M0 so they can transform their fighters ) but you could also have your blood vessels explode, your organs get "loose" ( don't know the medical term in english ), anyway, it would be bad for your body. In space you don't have that, you do what you want. That's why I put these pilots high on my list, while later pilots that did most of their flying and victories in space lower on it. And c'mon, the zentraedi have very poor fighting skills, look at their manouvers in SDFM. Killing a bunch of them doesn't make you a good pilot.

Ivanov, Nora ( she is "playing" with her enemies, pulling absurd g forces in the manouvers while smiling ), Roy and Isamu, in my opinion, are between the greatest, not necessarily in this order, with Max close behind.

Ah yes, these are for the best combat pilot list.

[Roy Focker]

Well I can think of one character that will have to lose their position on some list.

Sure there was a similar Roy type DYRL? Ending but at least Roy died after beating Kamjin. This smiling loser died to wounds from an unnamed creature.

[Birdman]

#1 is Max. End of story. Basara isn't even in my top 5. Why? Because a fighter pilot has to be able to attack as well as defend. Basara may well have been quite able but he certainly wasn't willing to go on the offensive.

#2 is Isamu. Insanely great flying skill. As great as Max IMO. Unfortunately, that's not all that was insane - hence the wee discipline problem...

#3 a tie for Millia and Guld. Millia - what can I say? Only Max could defeat her. As for Guld, he matched Isamu right to the end but it took him way to long to realize that Isamu wasn't dead after all - long enough for a pilot as good as Isamu to send him packing.

#4 Roy. Although not 'the' best pilot, he was certainly the best squadron leader overall. DD may have been his instructor at one point but who says that the student can't surpass the master. Roy is certainly the better team player which matters a lot when leading others into combat. True class all the way.

#5 Ozma. Who else do we know that can tangle with a cyborg in the dark and live to take out the Vajara with a knife? 'nuff said.

I'll stop at my top 5 but I'm surprised how many people are down on Shin; given M0's opening it should be obvious that he's extremely good. The only reason Nora didn't get killed is because she was flying the SV51 - if she had been in a Mig like the others Shin would've probably had 4 kills that mission. Let's also not forget how ridiculously little training Shin got when he transitioned to the VF0 - these fighters were so new that the tactics and procedures were still being developed. If he had stuck around, I'm sure Shin would've been right up there with Roy.

[Roy Focker]

Remember Kawamori himself said that during the end of Macross Plus for one moment Guld was the best.

Of course he wasn't that good to live through it.

[Birdman]

Remember Kawamori himself said that during the end of Macross Plus for one moment Guld was the best.

Where would I find this info - I have to admit that, outside of this site and the vids I don't track other info. I do remember the scene where Guld thinks he nailed Isamu but when he looks outside of the cockpit again, there's Isamu hiding in his shadow.

[IAD]

Just a physics note: "G-forces" exist in space... You can still pass out, pulling too tight a turn at too high a speed, because you're accelerating away from a straight line course. However, this can be circumvented by simply rotating in space to achieve a guns solution, instead of maneuvering "airplane style". The only reason airplanes as we know them have a turning radius larger than zero (rotation in space) is because of aerodynamic considerations.

Since 'flight' in space lacks gravity, aerodynamic stall/buffeting, and generally speaking, any terrain to crash into, achieving a good guns solution would conceivably be significantly easier. (The catch is that almost ANYBODY can rotate their vehicle in space, to point their guns at a target. Tactics that depend on the limited minimum turning radius and flight speed of an aircraft become irrelevant... You'll never see a 'flat scissors' in space. )

My thinking is that dogfighting in space would be really boring, and have an appallingly high fatality rate, due to the relative ease of maneuvering for a guns kill. Luck would keep you alive more than skill.

Thus, back on topic, Ivanov, Roy (M0), Polyansky, and Shin are probably the top-slot pilots, from a "totally realistic" standpoint. They had a lot to cope with, plus they were flying first-gen aircraft, barely out of the lab, so-to-speak.

~Luke

[Mr March]

good listing! and protodevlin aside, i think it more or less sits in well with the guidelines.

and shame on me for forgetting gilliam! hmmm... now where should i put him? sure he was killed fairly quick, but he's an SMS pilot...

anyways, added gillam to my list.

as for Roy, i think it's possible that Hikaru has already surpassed him, even if you take leadership and experience into the equation. at the time of his death, roy has been piloting the VF (we can include the VF0 here) for 1 1/2 years at most. by the end of the series, hikaru has been piloting a VF for more than 3 years. it's just possible, not saying it's definite, though.

Ah, thank you. I put quite a bit of thought into this one, so I'm glad you like it.

Hmmm, not sure if Hikaru ever surpassed Roy, but perhaps he did eventually gain more Valkyrie time. Still, I think Hikaru became a killer combat pilot by the end of SDF Macross. The guy was a juggernaut in the later third of the series, dealing out ownage in the extreme. Hikaru and Gamlin definite deserve more credit than what they get. I think they're definitely aces.

[Chief Guld Goa Bowman]

Macross Gods

1.Guld Goa Bowman

2.Isamu Dyson

3.Roy Focker

4.Maximilian Jenius

5.Hikaru Ichijo

6.Ozma Lee

7.Milia Jenius

Macross Aces

1.Shin Kudo

2.Alto Saotome

3.D.D. Ivanov

4.Michael Blanc

5.Nora Polyansky

6.Brera Sterne

7.Klan Klan

8.Gamlin Kizaki

9.Luca Angeloni

10.Kinryu

11.Docker

12.Basara Nekki

[Gubaba]

#1 is Max. End of story. Basara isn't even in my top 5. Why? Because a fighter pilot has to be able to attack as well as defend. Basara may well have been quite able but he certainly wasn't willing to go on the offensive.

First, as someone else pointed out, he was good with hitting targets with speaker pods. Second, I'm pretty sure the original post said "pure pilot excellence in battle," not "best combat pilot."

Okay, I'm not pretty sure, I'm very sure. I went back and checked.

But I'm not going to argue the point anymore. Really, the only reason I'm championing Basara is because it's kind of fun to see (despite the fact that he is clearly one of the best pilots out there) so many people coming up with so many inventive reasons NOT to include him...

BOMBAA!!

[ChronoReverse]

A combat manouver pulled on space, like, let's say, a cobra ( the one the russian fighters are famous for ) is easily done in the space, you can make it at any speed you are "flying" at. Now, the same manouver, in an atmosphere, if done fast, let's say, in the same speed like you would do in space, would actually take all your blood away from your brain, making you faint. Depending on your speed, not only you could break your plane ( like we say Nora and Shin loosing speed in the last episode of M0 so they can transform their fighters ) but you could also have your blood vessels explode, your organs get "loose" ( don't know the medical term in english ), anyway, it would be bad for your body. In space you don't have that, you do what you want. That's why I put these pilots high on my list, while later pilots that did most of their flying and victories in space lower on it. And c'mon, the zentraedi have very poor fighting skills, look at their manouvers in SDFM. Killing a bunch of them doesn't make you a good pilot.

First off, a cobra is impossible in space. It depends on the atmosphere to work. In space, the best you can do is maximum reverse.

Second, inertia does not disappear in space. Tight turns exert just as much force on your body in space as in an atmosphere.

Incidentally, the ability for a valkyrie to flip around quickly as it transforms is actually more realistic than using vernier thrusters to flip around. By using inertia and the conservation of angular momentum (think of gyroscopes and Olympic platform divers), this is quicker than using thrusters to accelerate and then decelerate. Of course, combining the two would be even quicker but that's beside the point.

Normally I'd say that atmospheric combat is more intense because certain tighter maneuvers are possible that aren't in space. However, I always come back to the intense battle in Macross Plus which demonstrates that the upper limits of the machines are so high that the atmosphere ceases to matter. This can also be seen in Macross 7 when Max is doing his bombing run; you can see his dodging is a greater portion of vernier thrusters.

Edited August 22, 2008 by ChronoReverse

[ruskiiVFaussie]

So where would Silvie and Nexx rank with people? Feff?

[Raptor One]

10.Ozma Lee-He's cool and suave like Roy, except he was smart enough not to eat the pineapple salad.Plus he took on a vajra with a knife, cut it's leg off, and threw it at it. Thats captial "G" work right there, just like Roy.

Roy didn't eat it either

[Graham]

Basara might not have killer instinct but he can hit his targets. He used a freaking Speaker Gunpod to great efficacy and only failed against Chloe (near Milia ability). Only Chloe, Milia, Max, Isamu and Guld have actually demonstrated flying maneuvers at or above the level of Basara.

I have a theory that the speaker pods had some sort of homing capability, like micro-missiles, as Basara never really seemed to aim, just sprayed them out, but they still hit the target. Technology, not skill.

Also, Basara wasn't a truely great VF pilot in my book as he never really took the time to master Gerwalk mode and the one time we see him using it in combat, he's pretty useless and ends up crashing into buildings.

Graham

[dreamweaver13]

Also, Basara wasn't a truely great VF pilot in my book as he never really took the time to master Gerwalk mode and the one time we see him using it in combat, he's pretty useless and ends up crashing into buildings.

Graham

yeah, i actually remember that. in fact i was very happy seeing that episode. HA! basara can't fly gerwalk! clumsy bastard.

can we just call him inherently gifted, but miserably untrained and unmotivated to learn?

[David Hingtgen]

Heck, he doesn't seem very good at fighter mode either. He seems to be in battroid 98% of the time. The only time he uses fighter is when he needs to go in a straight line for a long distance at high speed.

[David Hingtgen]

Err....David, that was Kinryu, not Physica.

IIRC, Physica dies when his VF-17D get's shot in the back by Gigile's Fz-109.

Graham

Damnit, I hate it when I get names mixed up. I think part of it was that you ranked him, but didn't mention Kinryu at all. Physica was the only Diamond Force name I saw on your list other than Gamlin, and thought "surely he means the bald guy who was awesome".

[Morpheus]

I say Basara is not a very good ace pilot, he's been using custom VF-19 which has been customized for him, put him on another plane (eg. VF-1 with whaling spear) and he became space dust.

Gamlin IMO is one of the best ace out there, his flying skills is superb in VF-17, he even turn the VF-11 into a killing machine, now he got a VF-22, I bet he probably on the same level as Millia.

Best pilot of all? I say Aegis Fokker deserve a place on the list. C'mon, he survive dueling with several ghost at once, defeating enemy aces in uber valk and he got the chance to pilot all the valk (not to mention the only pilot in Macross history to ever score a kill underwater beside Shin). Aegis Fokker is the man.

[m0n5t3r]

any stats on who flew the most (different types) valks?

Max coz he's a jenius...

[dreamweaver13]

any stats on who flew the most (different types) valks?

don't have the data, but i'm guessing Millia's up there. and if you include other mecha, then milla is probably the runaway winner.

[Final Vegeta]

But I'm not going to argue the point anymore. Really, the only reason I'm championing Basara is because it's kind of fun to see (despite the fact that he is clearly one of the best pilots out there) so many people coming up with so many inventive reasons NOT to include him...

I think Brera's situation is similar. People are saying he is good only because of his cybernetic enhancements... but it's not like we are watching him without those.

FV

[ChronoReverse]

I have a theory that the speaker pods had some sort of homing capability, like micro-missiles, as Basara never really seemed to aim, just sprayed them out, but they still hit the target. Technology, not skill.

WHAT ON EARTH.

I have a theory that Max really just took drugs behind the scenes and that his custom VF's through the series really had enhancements above and over his contemporaries. He really wasn't that good of a pilot but was relying on technology.

[Roy Focker]

If you remove aliens, cyborgs and non combat pilots your left with...

Max followed by Isamu tied with Roy. Characters like Hikaru and Gamlin have good chance of being higher caliber after a few more years of battle.

Basara has potential to be the best but his non violent approach will prevent him from actually proving it.

[Gubaba]

If you remove aliens, cyborgs and non combat pilots your left with...

Max followed by Isamu tied with Roy. Characters like Hikaru and Gamlin have good chance of being higher caliber after a few more years of battle.

Basara has potential to be the best but his non violent approach will prevent him from actually proving it.

Well, again...is the original post about combat skill or piloting skill? If it's the former, then yes, Basara's out of the running. I f it's the latter, then he counts.

[Duke Togo]

Max, Milia, everyone else.

[valhary]

i say roy is the best so far!!!!