Rank your Macross pilots

[dreamweaver13]

This is not a poll as to who is the best pilot ever. The answers would range around two or three people (ho-hum), and that wouldn't be much of a new topic. However, how do we rank all our macros pilots, from best to worst?

Ground rules:

- Let's say that they're all flying the same type of mecha (VF-1 or VF-25, take your pick) and pretend that that’s the mecha they've been flying all their lives.

- For now, let's take the leadership factor out of the equation.

- Major characters only (sorry, Machida)

- AI pilots don't count! (sorry, Sharon Apple).

- He may have been a hotshot pilot during his day (e.g. Millard), but if we never saw him or her animated flying, he doesn't count.

- If a character's pilot skills develop over time, let's use the "peak" of his battle skills as our reference (but that "peak" has to be actually animated)

So all things being equal, how do we rank our Macross pilots (major characters only) in terms of pure pilot excellence in battle?

Off the top of my head, I'd say:

1.Maximilian Jenius

2.Milla Fallyna Jenius

3.Basara Nekki

4.Isamu Dyson

5.Chlore

6.Guld Bowman

7.Hikaru Ichijo

8.Roy Focker

9.Ozma lee

10.Alto Saotome

11. D.D. Ivanov

12. Brera Sterne

13.Quamzin Kravshera

14.Klan Klan

15.Shin Kudo

16.Nora Polyanski

17.Michael Blanc

18.Gamlin Kizaki

19.Docker

20.Kinryu

21.Nene Rora

22.Canaria Berstein

23.Luca Angeloni

24.Raramia Rerenia

25. Henry Gilliam

26.Temjin

27.Emilia Jenius

28.Ray Lovelock

29.Mylene Jenius

30.Physica Fulcrum

31.Kakizaki Hayao

-Wow, Max at the top and kakizaki at the bottom. BIG surprise! Haha. Funny how the two extremes (arguably) of the pilot spectrum was originally part of the same team.

-Placed Hikaru over Roy Focker; I think by the time 2012 came along, Hikaru had already surpassed his sempai in valk-piloting skills. just my opinion.

-Hate to put a guy piloting a valk with a guitar so high on the list, but other pilots seem to be in agreement that he's quite the genius. Actually, would have placed him above Milla, if not for the fact that he never actually fights (all he does is avoid missiles all day).

-Shin Kudo and Nora Polyanski are so evenly matched that I would have to put them next to each other. Although Shin wins out since nora died first (when will you learn to mind your surroundings?)

-would have loved to put Luca below Raramia, but he's still alive, ain't he?

-putting Ray Lovelock so low, coz there's not enough data to gauge how good he is. All is see him is as backup.

-didn't put Veffidas in the list, because I don’t know if she's technically a pilot.

-placed Guld far below Isamu, because without the distinct advantage of the superior piloting system, I think Isamu would have owned Guld easily. Same reasoning goes for Alto and Brera.

So what do you guys think? Any thoughts? suggestions? Violent reactions? Did I miss anyone?

Feel free to put up your own list. after all, mine is just a suggestion.

Edited September 10, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Isamu Starkiller]

My list based on the series I've seen...

Maximilian Jenius

Milla Fallyna Jenius

Isamu Dyson

Alto Saotome

Hikaru Ichijo

Ozma Lee

Roy Focker

Guld Bowman

Shin Kudo

D.D. Ivanov

Klan Klan

Nora Polyanski

Michael Blanc

Brera Sterne

Nene Rora

Kanaria Berstein

Luca Angeloni

Quamzin Kravshera

Raramia Rerenia

Kakizaki Hayao

A few differences, I dropped Brera down a few more notches because he might not even be in the cockpit of the VF-27! I put shin Kudo one notch above D.D. because both were enraged both went headfirst at the Birdman, one survived, one got blown to bits. I also brought Guld up a few because of his competative nature against Isamu his skills may have actually improved and I believe he is better than D.D. Ivanov. A dogfight between Klan Klan and Nora Polyanski would be epic IMO.

[Gubaba]

Max admitted that Basara was the better pilot, so I think he'd have to head the list...

[dreamweaver13]

Max admitted that Basara was the better pilot, so I think he'd have to head the list...

a part of my brain says you're right, but the rest of me just... can't... take it.

[d3v]

I wouldn't put Alto that high up, at least not yet. IMO he's just about on par or slightly below Ozma. Also, Brera ma have hax, but he's shown that he can out-dogfight Alto as long as the princess doesn't get the jump on him.

Also, since we're talking about major characters, bottom of the list would be, not Kakizaki but Sheryl Nome.

Edited August 21, 2008 by d3v

[hannin]

That is an excellent list, and I'd pretty much agree with all the selections, but I always like to insert a little of my own dramatically motivated statistics where my childhood heroes are concerned. As such, I've always felt (with absolutely no evidence) that when Hikaru thought Misa had been injured or killed by the blast from Quamzin's ship in the final episode of Macross, his anger/emotions momentarily made him untouchable. While always a great pilot, no one, not even Maximilian, could have bested Hikaru in those few minutes. (I like to apply the same "logic" to Luke's final lightsaber duel with Vader at the end of ROTJ even though we've seen better choreographed duels since 1983.) Of course it would be silly, if not impossible, to try to quantify a "best pilot" list with such opinions thrown in.

[sucker4meltrans]

your all wrong Isamu Dyson is the best pilot. the yf-19 was killing and severaly injuring all previous test pilot but isamu's insanity was the perfect match for an unstable machine.

[Isamu Starkiller]

I wouldn't put Alto that high up, at least not yet. IMO he's just about on par or slightly below Ozma. Also, Brera ma have hax, but he's shown that he can out-dogfight Alto as long as the princess doesn't get the jump on him.

Also, since we're talking about major characters, bottom of the list would be, not Kakizaki but Sheryl Nome.

LMAO @ Sheryl Nome....almost as good a pilot as Misa!

Edited August 21, 2008 by Isamu Starkiller

[dreamweaver13]

A few differences, I dropped Brera down a few more notches because he might not even be in the cockpit of the VF-27! I put shin Kudo one notch above D.D. because both were enraged both went headfirst at the Birdman, one survived, one got blown to bits. I also brought Guld up a few because of his competative nature against Isamu his skills may have actually improved and I believe he is better than D.D. Ivanov. A dogfight between Klan Klan and Nora Polyanski would be epic IMO.

good points on the shin kudo-ivanov rankings. but i went with roy having such a hard time with ivanov, but shin can't hold a candle to roy.

and i agree. klan vs. nora = epic!!

I wouldn't put Alto that high up, at least not yet. IMO he's just about on par or slightly below Ozma. Also, Brera ma have hax, but he's shown that he can out-dogfight Alto as long as the princess doesn't get the jump on him.

Also, since we're talking about major characters, bottom of the list would be, not Kakizaki but Sheryl Nome.

hmmm... i think you're right about alto-ozma. at the very least, he should be below chlore. fixed. not too sure about brera though, coz we still can't be sure if his advantage is because of the mecha or his own skills.

as for sheryl, i thought about that too. but i still think she isn't really a pilot. more like a piloting student who was forced to handle the controls at one point. because if we include sheryl, we would also have to include Misa Hayase (DYRL). but if sheryl pilots another valk over the course of the series, that's a different story.

That is an excellent list, and I'd pretty much agree with all the selections, but I always like to insert a little of my own dramatically motivated statistics where my childhood heroes are concerned. As such, I've always felt (with absolutely no evidence) that when Hikaru thought Misa had been injured or killed by the blast from Quamzin's ship in the final episode of Macross, his anger/emotions momentarily made him untouchable. While always a great pilot, no one, not even Maximilian, could have bested Hikaru in those few minutes. (I like to apply the same "logic" to Luke's final lightsaber duel with Vader at the end of ROTJ even though we've seen better choreographed duels since 1983.) Of course it would be silly, if not impossible, to try to quantify a "best pilot" list with such opinions thrown in.

haha. as a fan of the legendary SW1 hero Hikaru Ichijo, i'd like so much to agree with you.

[dreamweaver13]

LMAO @ Sheryl Nome....almost as good a pilot as Misa!

i think sheryl was even better. just a few seconds and misa crashlands the valk. at least sheryl was able to avoid getting blown up by vajra for a while.

[Avngr]

First generation fighters always require more skill in the pilot part, so I would have Roy and Ichijo higher in the list. Also Nora, Shin and D.D, because they had to deal with something that the others didn't: G-Force, that's a huge burden on the pilots shoulder... Basara? Phew, the M7 pilots were increadibly low on skill, same to their opponents. My list would basicaly be set by the series they appeared, with some minor changes. On the top, SDFM pilots, with the obvious exception. Second, M0, fighting pulling absurd G's in their fights. M+ follows, then I would have Frontier pilots mixed with M7.

Just compare the dogfight scenes in M0 with M7, so you decide who is best, Basara or any of the four main characters

I would basically put any atmosphere fighter pilot above a space pilot, since the forces acting on them are very diferent.

Edited August 21, 2008 by Avngr

[RedWolf]

While not ranking list the top pilots in my fic are Chlore, Aegis Focker, Isamu Dyson and Moaramia Jenius.

Frak Deculture Chapter 4: All That VF

Edited August 21, 2008 by RedWolf

[Gubaba]

Basara? Phew, the M7 pilots were increadibly low on skill, same to their opponents.

Are you including Max and Millia there...?

[Avngr]

Are you including Max and Millia there...?

Of course not, you saw what Max did when he got in a fighter in that suicide mission, right? And how Millia did against those zombie pilots flying an ancient VF-1

Edited August 21, 2008 by Avngr

[Gubaba]

Of course not, you saw what Max did when he got in a fighter in that suicide mission, right?

And again, Max said Basara was the better pilot...

Yes, it's a cheap ploy by the writers to try to make Basara seem better. Yes, the battle scenes in DYRL, Plus, Zero, Froniter, hell, even MacII, are fiercer and more complicated than anything in Mac7. Yes, we have no other reason to believe that Basara is awesomeness personified, but...Max said it. And he's a genius, so he should know. Right?

[RedWolf]

Actually Max said he was much better than Basara when he was younger or at that age.

It was Gamlin who said that Basara could be better than Max. On Millia he had comment when Mylene asked if Basara was better than her.

From Mylene's observation Chlore was better than her mama. But she didn't see her mom in full combat so that is suspect.

Chlore was whipping Basara in their first date. On the second date Basara was making circles around her. But you may have to account that Basara was Deculturing Chlore.

Edited August 21, 2008 by RedWolf

[Avngr]

He's old, that's the reality

I think that during Space War I, the standard for the pilots ability was pretty low, they were recruiting anyone to fight. And to be fair, zentraedi fighter pilots are pretty dumb. Only reason they were giving some trouble to Macross pilots was that they lacked a proper training. With no one else to compare, Max could be considered a genious... We can't even compare properly Max with Roy, since Roy died when Max was still a cadet. Imagine the bourden upon Roy's shoulder, having to fight looking after all those rookies. You need to be incredibly good to protect them all, and still focus on the mission, and suceed at that, while being stormed upon by countless aliens...

The reason Max was considered a genius could be more to the fact that he got the skills of a trained and experienced pilot with so little instruction time, wich doesn't necessarily makes him the best pilot of all time...

Which episode Max says that? I know I heard it when I watched M7, now I'm curious to see that part again

Edited August 21, 2008 by Avngr

[dreamweaver13]

Actually Max said he was much better than Basara when he was younger or at that age.

It was Gamlin who said that Basara could be better than Max. On Millia he had comment when Mylene asked if Basara was better than her.

From Mylene's observation Chlore was better than her mama. But she didn't see her mom in full combat so that is suspect.

Chlore was whipping Basara in their first date. On the second date Basara was making circles around her. But you may have to account that Basara was Deculturing Chlore.

that's actually how i remember it. hard to imagine the subconsciously egotistic max jenius ever admitting that someone is a better pilot than him. if ever he admitted he, he would place a proviso that "he's better than me now, but if i were young again..."

but if gubaba has a more exact quote, i certainly defer to him, since i've only seen Mac7 once, and god knows how many times he's seen it.

mylene has never seen millia in her prime, so you're right that mylene's observation is suspect.

from what i remember, during their prime, chlore is only second best to the great milla fallyna. correct me if i remembered wrong.

so who is better? basara or chlore?

[theplasticwerks]

Max admitted that Basara was the better pilot, so I think he'd have to head the list...

Basara was the better pilot then. Not necessarily when Max was at his prime. Remember, he's just sitting in a chair by the time he meets Basara. Also, they have very different flying styles, right down to the control layout - Max flew to kill, Basara flew to...well, entertain, really.

My list:

First Bracket: The Legends

Maximilian Jenius

Milla Fallyna Jenius

Isamu Dyson

Ozma Lee

D.D. Ivanov

Roy Focker

Guld Bowman

Chlore

Brera Sterne

Basara Nekki

Here we've got the best pilots as proven in their day, and some squad leaders. Max and Millia were, of course, the stars of their time, and I think these two will top any list that comes out of this thread - I hope someone proves me wrong. Isamu conquered a bird that had killed all of its previous test pilots, plus he paced Guld. Ozma is simply very good with the VF-25 - he takes more hits than Roy does, but you can't be a rockstar every day. Brera's part robot, so he has some kind of edge on normal pilots, and he's whooped SMS several times. D.D. is more or less on equal footing with Roy.

Basara flies with his guitar while singing. I don't care what galaxy you're from, that takes skill.

Second bracket: The Everypilot

Nora Polyanski

Gamlin Kizaki

Hikaru Ichijo

Klan Klan

Michael Blanc

Canaria Berstein

Alto Saotome

Shin Kudo

Raramia Rerenia

Nene Rora

Quamzin Kravshera

Docker

Honestly, Basara aside, the main characters have always been rather mediocre pilots. At his peak in a VF Shin had literally lost his head to inattentiveness, gotten really close to an alien artifact, and would have pulled a slower version of a TV Kakizaki were he not abducted by the aliens (but I don't think the UNS was about to tell his next-of-kin that [if any were named], so he effectively pulled a Kakizai). Okay, the cobra vector was pretty slick, and there was that kick-off on Nora after that (the only real hit he got on her, which testifies to her #1 spot here), but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Pixie Squadron is supposed to be good. Alto did best them, and Raramia did bite it in Kakizaki fashion (wrong place at the wrong time), but I wouldn't throw any of them too far the list.

It's hard to judge Mikhail against Alto, because they have specific combat roles that may or may not restrict their actual piloting skill - Max and Hikaru were regular front-line flyboys. Mikhail has only lost a fighter while unconscious, and if he's

going out next episode, he might not be in his bird

. Klan is probably on equal footing with Mikhail if not better. Ditto Canaria, because like Mikhail she flies support, and she's stuck in the slowest tactical-level gun platform. She might possibly be amazing in a Valk, but a K-Monster can only do so much before something catches up to it (man, now I want to see Canaria lose the Monster somehow and be stuck in a Valk with Ranka riding backseat).

Third bracket: Just above the cut

Kakizaki Hayao

Kinryu

Temjin

Physica Fulcrum

Luca Angeloni

Emilia Jenius

Ray Lovelock

Mylene Jenius

Quite a few civvy pilots here, all at the bottom (including Luca - he's good with intel work, but useless in a fight except as a distraction). And yes, Kakizaki is near the top of the list - he wasn't a fantastic pilot, but he was killed by a fluke (or sneak attack). He was at least good enough for the military to allow him to fly in combat (if we can ignore the Macross' situation at the time).

I'd have put Sheryl on the list, but as far as we know she was still a student pilot (who may not have driven anything in her life), and I don't think she would have been training in a VF-25...

[dreamweaver13]

He's old, that's the reality

I think that during Space War I, the standard for the pilots ability was pretty low, they were recruiting anyone to fight. And to be fair, zentraedi fighter pilots are pretty dumb. Only reason they were giving some trouble to Macross pilots was that they lacked a proper training. With no one else to compare, Max could be considered a genious... We can't even compare properly Max with Roy, since Roy died when Max was still a cadet. Imagine the bourden upon Roy's shoulder, having to fight looking after all those rookies. You need to be incredibly good to protect them all, and still focus on the mission, and suceed at that, while being stormed upon by countless aliens...

The reason Max was considered a genius could be more to the fact that he got the skills of a trained and experienced pilot with so little instruction time, wich doesn't necessarily makes him the best pilot of all time...

but you said it yourself, the old-school pilots should be more skilled. ergo, if max was considered a genius even during his time (and acknowledged even by Roy Focker, a war veteran and ace), then following your reasoning, he would be the best even among the later ones.

and also, if he was only the best among earth pilots, than we can say that he is only the best from a limited perspective of a race without any space war experience. but since he bested and defeated the person considered by the zentraedi as their best pilot, she with her years and countless battles of space war experience, (and using what is arguably the fastest and deadliest zentraedi mecha), then the genius of max is established.

[Mr March]

Did one of these recently, so I'm gonna cut and paste. My apologies if it doesn't fit the rules exactly

Inhuman Champions

1. Maximillian Jenius

2. Milia Fallyna

The Upper Echelon

3. Chlore

4. Roy Focker

5. Isamu Dyson & Guld Bowman

6. Nekki Basara

7. Ozuma Lee

8. Hikaru Ichijo & Gamlin Kizaki

9. Alto Saotome & Brera Sterne

10. D.D. Ivanov

11. Mikhail Buran/Michael Blanc

The Regulars

12. Kuran Kuran

13. Nora Polyansky

14. Shin Kudo

15. Emilia Jenius

16. Kinryu

17. Ray Lovelock

18. Docker

19. Kamjin Kravshera & Temjin

20. Gigile

21. Canaria Berstein

22. Gavil

The Cannon Fodder

23. Henry Gilliam

24. Mylene Jenius

25. Hayao Kakizaki

26. Luca Angeloni & Sheryl Nome

Kawamori has stated in interviews that Max and Milia are in a league all their own so there can be no doubt they dominate. Max is like the Einstein of piloting, hence why he's called a genius

Chlore was said to be very competitive with Milia for best pilot of the Meltran and in kill score, suggesting she either equals or sits just below Milia. That kind of accomplishment means Chlore is definitely second only to M&M

Once down to the realistic benchmarks, I still think that Roy Focker is the most accomplished of all the non-super pilots of Macross. He's definitely got the biggest kill score and probably the most experience. He's also an exceptional leader and I couldn't think of any other Macross pilot I'd want to fly under than Roy.

Isamu and Guld were clearly defined as above and beyond most pilots. The YF-19 went through seven pilots before Isamu and his display in the opening of Macross Plus still remains one of the single most impressive engagements in all of Macross. Going up against the bio-neural X-9 Ghost that moves like lightning (even faster than Brera's VF-27 it seems) is an accomplishment all its own and Guld managed to take it down, something even Isamu might not have been able to do.

The story of Macross 7 clearly defines Basara as a plot device and as such it necessitates that we acknowledge his talent as a pilot well above his contemporaries. I have to include him because he is so obviously portrayed as an ace among aces. Having said that, in any other Macross-like combat scenario and without the benefit of Macross 7's absurd plot, I'd say Basara would rank near the end of the list and perhaps below even some of The Regulars.

Ozuma is impressive and he's obviously cut from the same mold as Roy Focker. He also went up against arguably the most powerful enemy a human pilot has ever faced - the Vajra - and he did it with a knife As Frontier progresses his kill score continues to soar and he appears to be an inspiring commander.

Hikaru and Gamlin are probably the two most underrated pilots in Macross. Both possess considerable natural talent for flying but story circumstances demanded they play second place to Max and Basara respectively. I think measured in any realistic sense, these two would be acknowledged as top tier pilots and more importantly, as distinguished unit commanders, something a lot of the other pilots on the list lack. War is ultimately about mass battles and while some pilots might be equal or a bit better than these two, those others don't offer the UN Spacy what Hikaru and Gamlin can offer in terms of leadership and strategic skill.

Alto and Brera seem to be in their own league in Frontier, with the exception of Ozuma. It might be too early to tell, but I get the feeling these two are the stars of the show. For now they'll maintain a spot on the list unless something goes askew

D.D. Ivanov gave Roy a run for his money, but I never got the sense that Roy couldn't best him. D.D. seemed to have an affinity for luck that carried him a bit more than his actual skill, but even so his neck-and-neck with Roy means he's definitely to be feared. As Isamu said, luck is a skill

Mikhail seems to be noted as a talent above the norm. While he's definitely a standout and likely deserves a spot on the list, I'm not sure he'd fair all that well compared to the rest so I put him near the end.

[Avngr]

but you said it yourself, the old-school pilots should be more skilled. ergo, if max was considered a genius even during his time (and acknowledged even by Roy Focker, a war veteran and ace), then following your reasoning, he would be the best even among the later ones.

and also, if he was only the best among earth pilots, than we can say that he is only the best from a limited perspective of a race without any space war experience. but since he bested and defeated the person considered by the zentraedi as their best pilot, she with her years and countless battles of space war experience, (and using what is arguably the fastest and deadliest zentraedi mecha), then the genius of max is established.

I'm "kinda" sleepy, so I may be interpreting things wrongly, but, in the above, are you saying that I'm saying that, as an example, Max it's not better than the younger pilots?

Max was good, way better than any Frontier, Seven or Plus pilot. A genius? Yes, he learned fast something that regular people need a lot of time and practice. Does that makes him the best pilot ever? No way. He defeated Milia, true. How many other human pilots did she fought?

We should definitly put gravity in the equation. Fighting in space is one thing. Fighting with gravity is another.

Edited August 21, 2008 by Avngr

[theplasticwerks]

Max was good, way better than any Frontier, Seven or Plus pilot.

Until we pit them against each other in a video game, we'll never know about that...

[Whatever_Guy]

I agree with most of the lists that were posted that Max and Millia are the top pilots, all things being equal etc (all pilots being judged when they are during their prime )

haha and yes Hayao Kakizaki down the bottom LOL

[dreamweaver13]

I'm "kinda" sleepy, so I may be interpreting things wrongly, but, in the above, are you saying that I'm saying that, as an example, Max it's not better than the younger pilots?

Max was good, way better than any Frontier, Seven or Plus pilot. A genius? Yes, he learned fast something that regular people need a lot of time and practice. Does that makes him the best pilot ever? No way. He defeated Milia, true. How many other human pilots did she fought?

We should definitly put gravity in the equation. Fighting in space is one thing. Fighting with gravity is another.

yup. your quote:

The reason Max was considered a genius could be more to the fact that he got the skills of a trained and experienced pilot with so little instruction time, wich doesn't necessarily makes him the best pilot of all time...

but from your reaction, i take it that you were questioning his "best.pilot.ever" status not against the younger generation, but against other races. so if he's not the best ever, and the younger ones (macplus, mac7 and pac F) are out of the picture, to whom are you bestowing the title of "best ever"?

Edited August 21, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Gubaba]

that's actually how i remember it. hard to imagine the subconsciously egotistic max jenius ever admitting that someone is a better pilot than him. if ever he admitted he, he would place a proviso that "he's better than me now, but if i were young again..."

but if gubaba has a more exact quote, i certainly defer to him, since i've only seen Mac7 once, and god knows how many times he's seen it.

mylene has never seen millia in her prime, so you're right that mylene's observation is suspect.

from what i remember, during their prime, chlore is only second best to the great milla fallyna. correct me if i remembered wrong.

so who is better? basara or chlore?

Enh, my name is only Gubaba because I consider myself small and insignificant in the gand scheme of Macross fandom...and i have an innate distrust of people who take self-aggrandizing handles like "HIKARU ICHIJO SKULL ONE." In other words, I've seen Mac7 about five or six times, but that's over the last twelve years; I've only watched it twice with subs, and one of those times was with crappy HK bootleg DVD subs.

Although, yeah...my memory is jarred. Max did indeed say that Basara is better than he is NOW, but that he (Max) was better than him (Basara) before.

So I stand corrected.

Still, Basara is very, very good, despite the fact that (as Mr. March points out) it's merely a plot contrivance that makes it so.

[dreamweaver13]

Did one of these recently, so I'm gonna cut and paste. My apologies if it doesn't fit the rules exactly

Inhuman Champions

1. Maximillian Jenius

2. Milia Fallyna

The Upper Echelon

3. Chlore

4. Roy Focker

5. Isamu Dyson & Guld Bowman

6. Nekki Basara

7. Ozuma Lee

8. Hikaru Ichijo & Gamlin Kizaki

9. Alto Saotome & Brera Sterne

10. D.D. Ivanov

11. Mikhail Buran/Michael Blanc

The Regulars

12. Kuran Kuran

13. Nora Polyansky

14. Shin Kudo

15. Emilia Jenius

16. Kinryu

17. Ray Lovelock

18. Docker

19. Kamjin Kravshera & Temjin

20. Gigile

21. Canaria Berstein

22. Gavil

The Cannon Fodder

23. Henry Gilliam

24. Mylene Jenius

25. Hayao Kakizaki

26. Luca Angeloni & Sheryl Nome

Kawamori has stated in interviews that Max and Milia are in a league all their own so there can be no doubt they dominate. Max is like the Einstein of piloting, hence why he's called a genius

Chlore was said to be very competitive with Milia for best pilot of the Meltran and in kill score, suggesting she either equals or sits just below Milia. That kind of accomplishment means Chlore is definitely second only to M&M

Once down to the realistic benchmarks, I still think that Roy Focker is the most accomplished of all the non-super pilots of Macross. He's definitely got the biggest kill score and probably the most experience. He's also an exceptional leader and I couldn't think of any other Macross pilot I'd want to fly under than Roy.

Isamu and Guld were clearly defined as above and beyond most pilots. The YF-19 went through seven pilots before Isamu and his display in the opening of Macross Plus still remains one of the single most impressive engagements in all of Macross. Going up against the bio-neural X-9 Ghost that moves like lightning (even faster than Brera's VF-27 it seems) is an accomplishment all its own and Guld managed to take it down, something even Isamu might not have been able to do.

The story of Macross 7 clearly defines Basara as a plot device and as such it necessitates that we acknowledge his talent as a pilot well above his contemporaries. I have to include him because he is so obviously portrayed as an ace among aces. Having said that, in any other Macross-like combat scenario and without the benefit of Macross 7's absurd plot, I'd say Basara would rank near the end of the list and perhaps below even some of The Regulars.

Ozuma is impressive and he's obviously cut from the same mold as Roy Focker. He also went up against arguably the most powerful enemy a human pilot has ever faced - the Vajra - and he did it with a knife As Frontier progresses his kill score continues to soar and he appears to be an inspiring commander.

Hikaru and Gamlin are probably the two most underrated pilots in Macross. Both possess considerable natural talent for flying but story circumstances demanded they play second place to Max and Basara respectively. I think measured in any realistic sense, these two would be acknowledged as top tier pilots and more importantly, as distinguished unit commanders, something a lot of the other pilots on the list lack. War is ultimately about mass battles and while some pilots might be equal or a bit better than these two, those others don't offer the UN Spacy what Hikaru and Gamlin can offer in terms of leadership and strategic skill.

Alto and Brera seem to be in their own league in Frontier, with the exception of Ozuma. It might be too early to tell, but I get the feeling these two are the stars of the show. For now they'll maintain a spot on the list unless something goes askew

D.D. Ivanov gave Roy a run for his money, but I never got the sense that Roy couldn't best him. D.D. seemed to have an affinity for luck that carried him a bit more than his actual skill, but even so his neck-and-neck with Roy means he's definitely to be feared. As Isamu said, luck is a skill

Mikhail seems to be noted as a talent above the norm. While he's definitely a standout and likely deserves a spot on the list, I'm not sure he'd fair all that well compared to the rest so I put him near the end.

good listing! and protodevlin aside, i think it more or less sits in well with the guidelines.

and shame on me for forgetting gilliam! hmmm... now where should i put him? sure he was killed fairly quick, but he's an SMS pilot...

anyways, added gillam to my list.

as for Roy, i think it's possible that Hikaru has already surpassed him, even if you take leadership and experience into the equation. at the time of his death, roy has been piloting the VF (we can include the VF0 here) for 1 1/2 years at most. by the end of the series, hikaru has been piloting a VF for more than 3 years. it's just possible, not saying it's definite, though.

[akt_m]

yup. your quote:

The reason Max was considered a genius could be more to the fact that he got the skills of a trained and experienced pilot with so little instruction time, wich doesn't necessarily makes him the best pilot of all time...

but from your reaction, i take it that you were questioning his "best.pilot.ever" status not against the younger generation, but against other races. so if he's not the best ever, and the younger ones (macplus, mac7 and pac F) are out of the picture, to whom are you bestowing the title of "best ever"?

Amuro Ray is the best!! lol..

Before anyone comes and quote me with:"then kira yamato is the best", GS & GSD sux imho.

I guess i'm the best macross pilot, i could beat some ghosts X-9 in VFX-2 using a VF-1 valk!!! 

[Rookie_One]

Amuro Ray is the best!! lol..

Before anyone comes and quote me with:"then kira yamato is the best", GS & GSD sux imho.

I guess i'm the best macross pilot, i could beat some ghosts X-9 in VFX-2 using a VF-1 valk!!!

now that i think about this, where is aegis focker, VF-X 2 protaganist, i mean he is a damn good pilot!(especially when he had gone against battle 13 alone to disable the special protection field)

Edited August 21, 2008 by Rookie_One

[RedWolf]

now that i think about this, where is aegis focker, VF-X 2 protaganist, i mean he is a damn good pilot!(especially when he had gone against battle 13 alone to disable the special protection field)

Currently whipping Cylon raider ass with Isamu Dyson and Moaramia Jenius.

Fark Deculture: All That VF

The Cylons are Frakked.

Oh yeah Komilia is there too but she's a captain of her own Macross like Daddy and Mommy.

Shiba Midou allegedly Max's son is with the Marines.

Not really Max's son.

He didn't pilot a VF in Macross 7: Trash anyway.

For fun so is Yang with his VF and hacking.

[Graham]

Basara is a great instinctive pilot, but IMO not necessarily a good combat pilot. He’s obviously good at defensive flying (dodging attacks) and quite good at acrobatic flying, but we have little to no idea how he would be in an offensive military role, as attacking is something we seldom sell him do.

If this thread title had specified “best combat pilots” rather than just “best pilots”, I would probably even leave Basara off the list.

Also, I personally would not rate Millia so high as 2nd place as most people are doing and would definitely rate Gamlin higher than most people are rating him.

While Millia was not at her prime in Macross 7 and probably out of practice, Gamlin did have to end up saving her when she flew the red VF-17S. Gamlin also racked up an impressive kill list during the series.

My list would go something like: -

1) Max.

2) Isamu.

3) Joint 3rd place: Millia, Basara (grudgingly added).

4) Joint 4th place: Roy, Gamlin, Ozma (all three equal in my eyes).

5) Joint 5th place: Alto, Hikaru, D.D. Ivanov.

6) Joint 6th place: Guld (he’s a test pilot, not a combat pilot), Nora Polyanski, Shin Kudo, Brera Sterne (get’s a low rating because most of his ability comes down to his enhancements),

7) Joint 7th place: Klan Klan, Docker, Michelle Blanc, Quamzin Kravshera, Mylene Jenius.

Joint 8th place: Physica Fulcrum, Kakizaki Hayao, Luca Angeloni.

Michael Blanc only just made it onto my list, as while he is an excellent sniper in Battroid mode, we don’t really have a feel for his overall piloting and dogfighting abilities.

Graham

[David Hingtgen]

I'll just chime and say that most people are ranking Gamlin and Mylene too low. Gamlin's good, period. So good they gave him a VF-22S, and *very* few people get one of those.

Also, Physica's WAY too low on most people's lists IMHO. He gets automatic "hard core" points for jumping into an armored VF-11 half-naked from a hospital bed and single-handedly saving Battle 7 by taking out a Varauta battleship... I'd put him above Docker.

[Graham]

Also, Physica's WAY too low on most people's lists IMHO. He gets automatic "hard core" points for jumping into an armored VF-11 half-naked from a hospital bed and single-handedly saving Battle 7 by taking out a Varauta battleship... I'd put him above Docker.

Err....David, that was Kinryu, not Physica.

IIRC, Physica dies when his VF-17D get's shot in the back by Gigile's Fz-109.

Graham

[dreamweaver13]

Err....David, that was Kinryu, not Physica.

IIRC, Physica dies when his VF-17D get's shot in the back by Gigile's Fz-109.

Graham

yup. all i remember about physica is that he has a family to go home to. sad, surely, but by no means an indication of pilot combating skill.

graham, you're right about basara not being that much of an offensive weapon (unless anima spirita was specifically needed). but given that everyone is calling him a genius (while isamu is still referred to by other pilots as merely reckless), i would still have to give the edge, very grudgingly, to Basara.

[sucker4meltrans]

still i'm the only one thinking about how isamu was the only that could fly a prototype that was killing all of its other test pilots??