Economics of Macro Zentran sized goods

[sucker4meltrans]

something that boggles me is lets say a pair of miclone size shoes costs $50 then how much would macro size pair of shoes cost? if a miclone size bottle of lotion costs $2 then what would one cost for a macro zentran? prices for items such as lotion and other things that are in containers couldn't be made comparable or everyone just buy the macro size one because its a better price even if you are buying a years worth for a miclone.

[Beltane70]

If you check out episode 5 of Frontier, they actually show the price for a pair of Zentraedi-sized high-healed shoes. I don't know that the currency in Frontier is, but whatever it is, the shoes cost 3,679,000.

Even if it was a better buy, where would a human put a macro-sized bottle of lotion? The lotion bottle would be about the size of a person!

[eugimon]

food is an even more interesting thing to look at. If we look at the new mini-cows that are becoming popular, they're half the size but eat only 1/3rd as much as their full sized cousins.

[sucker4meltrans]

well if they are using Japanese yen for a basis then its still about 3,000 in us dollar for a pair of shoes. so this begs the question what kind of jobs to full size zentradi do to earn that kind of money??

[Gubaba]

well if they are using Japanese yen for a basis then its still about 3,000 in us dollar for a pair of shoes. so this begs the question what kind of jobs to full size zentradi do to earn that kind of money??

Hippocow farming is even more lucrative than raising alpacas.

[Heron]

Hippocow farming is even more lucrative than raising alpacas.

Zentran Alpaca Farmer??

[Gubaba]

if so, that must be one frickin' HUGE alpaca...

[DeeBot]

well if they are using Japanese yen for a basis then its still about 3,000 in us dollar for a pair of shoes. so this begs the question what kind of jobs to full size zentradi do to earn that kind of money??

That's a great question, but first, think about the question from the opposite angle. Let's say normal human society are the macros, and let's say there's an intelligent society of ants that are the micros.

Now, a single human being requires a lot more resources to sustain than a single ant, but the human being is also capable of producing a lot more stuff to support himself. Similarly, I would expect Zentrans to be great at, say, hippocow farming. (And in fact, if the Zentradi can produce large amounts of meat in a more economical fashion, it follows that regular human beings will benefit from the lower prices. This will enrich the Zentradi, carving out their economic niche, while bankrupting less productive human ranchers.)

Of course, mechanization throws a monkey wrench in this simple analysis (there's no reason to believe miclones aren't competitive in agriculture), but it could apply to other things that require physical labor.

[Noyhauser]

I posted about this very topic in two different posts... so I'm just going to copy and paste.

Here is the post on Zentredi economics

Someone earlier talked about the economics of being macronized. As I pointed out in another thread discussing "why would people even want to colonize," its very likely that a macross colony operated based on a hybrid command/free economy, which places major restrictions on the lifestyles of colonists. While people earn money and have choices how they spend it, likely huge parts of the economy that are state controlled or regulated. For foods, clothes, basic goods, ect, prices may be fixed to a certain degree since everything comes from the limited pool of goods from the system. Really markups would be representative of labour costs, or if its considered rare. We see at the start that real meat is considered a rarity, so that certainly entailed it being more expensive. As a colonist you're assured that you will get basic goods at a reasonable price.

Moreover scaling of costs could exist for Zentredi who live in macro size, yet only a few are allowed to live in such a state. It doesn't mean that they pay that much more to live in macronized form. They too are assured things at a certain price, maybe a bit more, but its not something that seems too expensive.

I think you have to remember this is a closed, smaller economy, which can almost certainly be modeled through computer simulations. Everything can be planned effectively, including having a portion of the population macronized.

As for the initial post... here it is.

Anyway, back to the task at hand. While The space fleets might seem like utopia, its most likely that there must be major limitations on individual freedoms and aspirations both socially and economically. First population control must be key element to any long range colonization mission. Its impossible to think that the small closed society could handle a larger population, given their limited systems.

You may well see a one or two child policy at work to prevent overpopulation of a colony. Once landing on a planet, any such limitations are likely to disappear.

Moreover while the economy might run normally on a capitalist model, there must be certain limits to what you can buy, and even how much you profit. Everything operates in a closed system. Though you might be able to gain more materials through asteroid mining, you can't grow more crops, catch more fish, or raise more hippocows. Technically the economy continues as a small closed system. Such limitations only disappear once a colonyship lands. The establishment of a colony is likely to stimulate a huge boom in an economy as people start having more children, limitations are withdrawn on businesses operations, and new cities are built. There would just be more opportunities once on the ground than in space, something colonists were likely to look forward to.

[RedWolf]

I wouldn't exactly call the colony fleets as a closed economy.

Remember SMS besides Strategic Military Services is also known as Speed Miracle Spacy.

It has been revealed that Richard Bilrer made a forturne on the transport business.

How else do you suppose those seven colored carrots Temjin was eating got to Galia 4?

Macross Frontier has also been shown to have an airport or spaceport.

How do you suppose Basara got off Macross 7 to go Whale chasing?

There is an existing infrastructure of passenger and cargo transport among the colonies and fleets.

In fact Luca is afraid that Bilrer will monopolize the transport and communication sector with fold quartz.

[Noyhauser]

I wouldn't exactly call the colony fleets as a closed economy.

Remember SMS besides Strategic Military Services is also known as Speed Miracle Spacy.

It has been revealed that Richard Bilrer made a forturne on the transport business.

How else do you suppose those seven colored carrots Temjin was eating got to Galia 4?

Macross Frontier has also been shown to have an airport or spaceport.

How do you suppose Basara got off Macross 7 to go Whale chasing?

There is an existing infrastructure of passenger and cargo transport among the colonies and fleets.

In fact Luca is afraid that Bilrer will monopolize the transport and communication sector with fold quartz.

Its been said numerous times, that the colonies are virtually self sufficient; the vast majority of goods must be created onboard the colony ship. Sure water, metals and other basic materials must be drawn in from the surrounding environment, that does not mean however the transport network is required for its sustainability. You're not going to see basic staple goods be brought in. Because of the limitations of folding (in distance and size goods that can be transported) I think its clear that transporting goods is a very costly activity, and only reserved for high cost items. Something like multicolored carrots might just require a DNA sample that can be sent to a colony, where its produced under license for profit. Intellectual property would be the driver of such a system. We've already seen one definitive example of this: In Macross 7, Shinsei send the plans for the VF-19 to be produced at the Three stars plant; they didn't produce the fighters at earth or eden and ship them to Macross 7. Neither did they rebuild Battle 7; the fleet built it itself.

So I'm not saying that its a completely closed economy, however the colonies are virtually self sufficient and act almost completely closed economies.

Edited August 18, 2008 by Noyhauser

[d3v]

So if Catgirls are killed when discussing real world physics in an anime, what's killed when economics is discussed?

[RedWolf]

So if Catgirls are killed when discussing real world physics in an anime, what's killed when economics is discussed?

Inu-mimi girls? (Dog ear girls)

[Gubaba]

So if Catgirls are killed when discussing real world physics in an anime, what's killed when economics is discussed?

Alpaca girls, obviously.

[Morpheus]

So if Catgirls are killed when discussing real world physics in an anime, what's killed when economics is discussed?

Kitsune (Fox) girls off course

[d3v]

Hmm, so it seems that we don't have a definitive answer yet. I say we all go and find out which group of anthropomorphic females are threatened before we discuss any further.

[Beltane70]

I believe it's wolf girls!

[sharky]

Why don't they raise their animals in micronized form which would use up less food, water, air. Then when it is time to slaughter, they macronize them creating an abundance of food. Ditto for the crops.

[Morpheus]

Why don't they raise their animals in micronized form which would use up less food, water, air. Then when it is time to slaughter, they macronize them creating an abundance of food. Ditto for the crops.

Probably the same reason why they didn't grow cows and hippocows by using mass cloning, people want their meat and dairy product fresh, not reconstructed from some mixed chemicals.

[RedWolf]

Why don't they raise their animals in micronized form which would use up less food, water, air. Then when it is time to slaughter, they macronize them creating an abundance of food. Ditto for the crops.

Energy bud energy

Besides miclone chambers is something the Protoculture designed for themselves or anubody like them.

As we've seen with Graham, a Zolan that can macronize.

[sucker4meltrans]

yeah you want real cow or super dimension stem cell stock ?

[sharky]

Energy bud energy

Besides miclone chambers is something the Protoculture designed for themselves or anubody like them.

As we've seen with Graham, a Zolan that can macronize.

I thought sources of energy wasn't really an issue in the Macross universe with fusion reactors and such. I could understand not wanting to eat food that has been altered, but if people are fine with micronizing and macronizing themselves why would they have an issue with eating such animals. I mean micronized and macronized people have kids for crying out loud. So, one could conclude that the science is pretty well understood and routine. I just think it's a concept that the writers chose not to address.

[Shaka_Z]

4 words to make a fortune in the macross universe...

macronized

meltrandi

hygiene

products

'nuff said

[Hiriyu]

While the economics of the Macross universe are interesting in an academic way, the thing that has always given me pause for thought is the logistics of waste-management. Yuck.

[sucker4meltrans]

While the economics of the Macross universe are interesting in an academic way, the thing that has always given me pause for thought is the logistics of waste-management. Yuck.

colonies are a bio plant everything organic goes into a giant pool and broken down and then recycled into new organic material. even people.

[Shaka_Z]

colonies are a bio plant everything organic goes into a giant pool and broken down and then recycled into new organic material. even people.

I hate to say it, but thats pretty much a small scale technology-based copy of what a planetary biosphere does... both are huge recycling centers - one is just a helluvalot bigger than the other.

[sharky]

colonies are a bio plant everything organic goes into a giant pool and broken down and then recycled into new organic material. even people.

Super Dimensional Soylent Green is made out of Zentran!!!! It's Zennnntrannnn!!!!! Damn you UN Spacy! Damn you all to hell!!

[DeeBot]

I hate to say it, but thats pretty much a small scale technology-based copy of what a planetary biosphere does... both are huge recycling centers - one is just a helluvalot bigger than the other.

I think that's sorta the idea. It's a natural ecosystem in space, rather than a mechanical one like earlier generation colonies used. One more in harmony with nature and all that.

Think Biosphere 2, without resorting to pumping in extra oxygen because you got the ecological balance wrong.