Zentran UN Soliders

[sucker4meltrans]

I know from things i have read that basically because of constant revolts and attacks that full size zentradi in place where humans and miclone zentran live is not allowed in the Macross universe. with frontier we see that at least 1 island if not more allow macro size zentradi to live and work. Klan grew up from a baby as macro.

so here is my question. in the colony fleets city ships wouldn't internal security be better handled by zentradi soliders in body armor with rifles? destroids and valks would be clumsy and cause collateral dmg in cities.

[theplasticwerks]

I know from things i have read that basically because of constant revolts and attacks that full size zentradi in place where humans and miclone zentran live is not allowed in the Macross universe.

Well, revolts aside, that's just a matter of practicality. Watch the Folmo Mall scenes in Frontier - there are human-scale amenities all over the place. Since humans are smaller than Zentradi, there's just a matter of adding walkways and watch-your-step signs for them to be able to coexist with Zents at their natural scale. You can keep a hamster in a cage in your room because it doesn't take up nearly as much space as someone five or six times your size. But can you live in a hamster cage at your natural size?

so here is my question. in the colony fleets city ships wouldn't internal security be better handled by zentradi soliders in body armor with rifles? destroids and valks would be clumsy and cause collateral dmg in cities.

Well, just because one is organic doesn't make one any less clumsy And if you're acting in an urban combat role, you should be thoroughly trained for it no matter what you're wearing or piloting. There are few instances of "clumsiness" in BattleTech (where the local mecha are the same scale as those from Macross) - the collateral damage usually only occurs when improper weapons are used (like missile launchers), if someone misses, or if someone takes a really bad hit and falls over. No one damages local property if it's avoidable. The only times we really see Valks causing property damage is when there is a total newbie behind the stick.

There's a bit of the image factor. The Zentradi were once the enemies of the entire human race. Hell, they nearly annihilated the human race. There has to be a bunch of people bigoted against the big guys somewhere - there is still a lot of racism here in the United States, even some thirty-plus years after the Civil Rights Movement, and I don't expect that to change a lot in the next twenty years. We're talking about the race that nearly wiped us out. I'm surprised that coexistence was possible within a generation after the first Space War (although, given the choice, I'd rather attempt coexistence than piss 'em off and make them bombard us again) - the bigots probably aren't about to single out the ones that were actually responsible for that.

How would it look if they were in control of security? Sure, the ones living with humanity have proven themselves trustworthy over the years, but when they show up every time something goes wrong, they become the face of martial law. Now, I'm thinking you're talking about internal security matters that require some military presence - IE, riots among the populace. If you mean internal security in a defensive posture, if they were fending off Vajra that got into the city, they'd be heroes. Exclusivity is not the way for any business, really. You start getting into issues of racial discrimination - why aren't they letting humans defend the cities? We're the ones who need a new home, not them! Et cetera, et cetera.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be armored Zentradi working alongside military forces. There are probably tons of benefits to having infantry that can compete with something the size of a mecha. But having a Zentran-only MP force is not only pigeonholing yourself (flexbility is key!), it's alienating to the populace (pun not intended). I wouldn't be surprised if there was an off-screen all-Zent SWAT unit or something attached to a city defense command, because as I said there are probably benefits to having one (and it's being an equal-opportunity employer ), but the focus of any colony fleet is on humanity, and it's probably not helpful to morale if it looks like we're depending on aliens to keep us safe.

[DeeBot]

You might also recall that letting the Zentradi do all their fighting for them is what ultimately led to the downfall of the Protoculture.

[sucker4meltrans]

you think there would be a macro zentradi swat team standing by for things like vajra and other alien invasion of city ships. plus i want to see an armored zentradi jump on the back of a red lobster and ride it like a bucking bull before tossing a grenade in its mouth and leaping off.

[grss1982]

you think there would be a macro zentradi swat team standing by for things like vajra and other alien invasion of city ships. plus i want to see an armored zentradi jump on the back of a red lobster and ride it like a bucking bull before tossing a grenade in its mouth and leaping off.

That sounds disturbingly like a scene from Paul Verhoveen's STARSHIP TROOPERS.

[Kronnang Dunn]

The original SDF Macross had Macronized Zentran UN Soldiers... (check the kite in the chest piece replacing the old Zentradi symbol...)

Edited August 28, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[RedWolf]

The original SDF Macross had Zentran UN Soldiers...

Yeah but most of that batch micloned.

According to Macross Compendium after the second defensive battle of Macross City macronized Zents weren't allowed on Earth.

Those who chose to be still macro-stzed would likely live on the moon, the factory satelite, Mars or any colony within Sol.

Only intact fleet forces like the 33rd would still be macro.

But I think recently cultured fleets like Chlore's Meltran fleet can still have macro-sized UN forces.

[d3v]

Well, based on what we've seen in previous episodes, Zentran sized soldiers (part of what seems passes for their Marine Corps) usually seem to be assigned away from Colonization fleets. Off course, there really doesn't seem to be any impediment to armed Zentraedi near or inside a colony fleet as the Pixie Squad demonstrates.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Yeah but most of that batch micloned.

According to Macross Compendium after the second defensive battle of Macross City macronized Zents weren't allowed on Earth.

Those who chose to be still macro-stzed would likely live on the moon, the factory satelite, Mars or any colony within Sol.

Only intact fleet forces like the 33rd would still be macro.

But I think recently cultured fleets like Chlore's Meltran fleet can still have macro-sized UN forces.

Hehehe... That pic I posted is from the "Viva Maria" episode of the original SDF Macross... which was set in 2012... The second defensive battle of Macross city in Alaska ocurred during November 2030... That makes nearly 18 years of macronized Zentradi being still legal on Earth... Thus, I guess some Zentradi soldiers must have been still like that back then...

Edited August 28, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[taksraven]

You might also recall that letting the Zentradi do all their fighting for them is what ultimately led to the downfall of the Protoculture.

Hear hear, great point.

Yeah, not a good idea to utilise them as a "slave" warrior race.

Taksraven

[hobbes221]

While having full up Zentran combat teams to protect the islands may seem like a good idea it may also cause some problems. First if a VF or destroid takes a few too hits the pilot pulls the little yellow and black handle and ejects (do destroids have ejection seats?). Some may feel that using a Zentran in this way may be kinda derogatory, like using a Zentran as a cheap UCAV substitute. Also you would have to add in the medical side, only other macro Zentraedi would be able to aid a fallen Zentran. In episode 20

we saw that Klan was ready and willing to use Valkyrie weapons to go out and fight but once she was macro sized if hurt Micheal and Alto would have been able to do very little to help her.

(tossed that behind the old spoiler bar just to be safe!)

[sucker4meltrans]

i never suggested using zentradi for cannon fodder. its just that many times have we seen a macro zentradi bare handed man handle vf-1 like they were made of tin foil. build a zentradi armor suit with eca armor and use a non explosive/flammable power source and i bet a zentradi swat team could be more effective then a destroid any day.

[Radd]

We've seen like one zentradi manhandle a Valk like it was tinfoil, and that Zentradi was, by far, larger and stronger than the average zentradi. Also, a Frontier era Destroid might actually be more accurate, and less likely to cause collateral damage than a zentradi, while at the same time providing better defensive and offensive capabilities. All with less risk to the person piloting the thing.

Zentradi place in human society is an interesting question, though. Think about it, there were only somewhere between several hundred-thousand, to maybe a million human survivors left (according to the Compendium) post SW1. How many Zentradi were there? Britai's fleet was a million ships strong. Bodlza's was four million. How many of those ships survived? Zentradi could have potentially outnumbered humans by that point.

Also, consider, post SW1 zentradi cloning technology was used to beef up the human population for several decades. Most humans, by the time of Frontier were probably not alive during SW1. Any sort of anti-Zentradi racism might not actually exist in the numbers one might expect.

Along with interbreeding between Zentradi and humans, one has to wonder just where the line is drawn.

[hobbes221]

i never suggested using zentradi for cannon fodder. its just that many times have we seen a macro zentradi bare handed man handle vf-1 like they were made of tin foil. build a zentradi armor suit with eca armor and use a non explosive/flammable power source and i bet a zentradi swat team could be more effective then a destroid any day.

Never meant to imply that you were, I just try to toss out ideas. We don't see Zentradi SWAT teams so I'm just trying think why, I do see your point and it would make a great episode to see VFs, destroids and Zentradi going through a test montage like from M+ (even Rocky had a montage, sorry sorry had to say it) It is never my plan to come out say something like 'You're wrong!' or anything like that, to me this is all just ideas, theories and fun. So if I seem to miss the point sometimes (been known to happen) call me on it.

[Morpheus]

A battalion of UN Zentran soldier in FAST pack armor >>> Destroid battalion

[sucker4meltrans]

zomg macro zentradi soliders in episode 21! in the classic body armor too! at least on island3