SDFM Music... why isn't it as good as RT's?!

[Keith]

Strangely enough, Soundwave was recently asked this very same question. His answer?

"Macross Music Superior, Robotech Inferior"

'Nuff said!

[RF-26AAC]

Strangely enough, Soundwave was recently asked this very same question. His answer?

"Macross Music Superior, Robotech Inferior"

'Nuff said!

hrn,

I think even though it was a complete creative murder of the show RT did do *some* things OK.

I will reiterate for the like, 4th time this thread that I never said the Minmay/Minmei music was good in english, even when I was 5 I thought it was AWFUL.

But the OP is better, and some of the BGM is really good.

This thread is NOT calculated to make a Macross fan's blood boil, just intended to start discussion.

-RF-26 AAC

[JB0]

You have to admit it: Robotech's theme is just sooo way better than SDF Macross opening!

MA-CU-ROOS, MA-CU-ROOS!

Honestly, I'm not sure. I haven't seen any Robotech in ages, so I barely remember the music(in fact, the intro is the ONLY music I can recall).

I loved the opening last time I saw it. Of course, last time I saw it was also the FIRST time I noticed the cheesy 80s video editing effects(state of the art for the time, but they sure didn't age well).

The intro music really strikes me as "Diet Star Wars." In fact, I've tried to hum it before and transitioned into the Star Wars theme.

*hits YouTube for a refresher*

Okay... I SORTA like it. The arrangement they use is bit too fake, but the underlying score is decent. I think a remix is in order.

I keep laughing when I hear sound effects spliced over the music.

And it's DEFINITELY Diet Star Wars.

I like the Macross song too, but sometimes for the wrong reasons.

"MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC-ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" is stupid, but fun. It makes me laugh.

Maybe Robotech didn't fall too far from the source material after all?

VISUALLY, the Macross intro is far superior, due in large part to the consistent theme. The Robotech intro, of course, is spliced from all three shows' intros, and suffers a bit from the incoherency.

But the opening "filmstrip" on Robotech's intro is one of my favorite parts, dampened a bit by the fact that Macross also transitions from not-show to title sequence well.

[Nexx Stalker]

Of which are you in favor? Your sentence implies you like the RT theme then you go on with the Macross lyrics, or is that sarcasm?

Can't tell wether you're serious or not

Anyway, the Macross chorus in the original is pure unfiltered win.

As for the the background music, I used to love the RT one until I saw the original. From that moment on, RT BGM simply didn't sound so good anymore, even if the original took a while to grow on me (being first exposed to Robotech).

I don't like Minmei's music or singing in both incarnations.

Finally, I honestly do prefer the Robotech Theme over the Macross theme. A lot more. But I must add that the only Macross Opening worth listening (in my opinion) is Dynamite.

Have I cleared your doubts?

Edited August 9, 2008 by Nexx Stalker

[MilSpex]

I`m as much of a Macross purist as anyone here but I grew up on RT and the OP/Ending and We Will Win by Minmay still send shivers down by spine.

I guess nostalgia value counts for a lot too.

[lord_breetai]

Of course Reba West's vocals were not as good as Minmay's Mari Iijima is a professional singer... Reba West never was, the show also suffered from budget and time problems, they should have had more music then they did.

Anyway, to this day I still like the Robotech music, but I can't say I'd like to see it with the Japanese dialog... Robotech is Robotech and Macross is Macross for me two very different things.

I think someone said it best is the comparison of We Will Win (an awesome vocal even by Reba) and Ai Wa Nagareru, the former is a rousing call to arms, that has a just a hint of the hardships of war in it. The latter is a song about the horrors of war and how there are no winners... a message which must have surely shocked the Zentraedi if they bothered paying attention to the lyrics.

So I'll save the Robotech music for when I watch Robotech (along with Samurai Pizza Cats one of two total butcher dubs I'll actually watch... oh throw Saber Rider in there and make it 3).

[Bri]

While the OP is clearly trying to stir trouble it’s an interesting point. RT has some really nice music and voice acting. I love the opening music and Rick Hunters theme. Appreciating a music score is a matter of personal taste. I do prefer the Macross BGM as it’s more introvert and timeless. The RT score is more dramatic but also shows it’s eighties roots clearly, still it's very enjoyable. The Minmay songs are off course much better in Macross with Mari Iijima singing. I don’t care much for the Macross songs though, M7s J-rock all the way

I often read complaints about the RT dub. I can’t agree on that. Imo the voice acting in RT can hold it’s own against some of the better dubs like NGE and Cowboy Bebop. (Note I’m comparing quality of voice acting not accuracy of the translation). And that’s pretty impressive considering it was done more then a decade earlier. Still the distinct voices in RT may not be to everyone's liking. Neither English nor Japanese is my first language, both sound exotic to me. Any sci-fi translated in my own language usually sounds pretty cheesy. I assume it’s the same for Americans who have to compare RT with Macross.

RT would receive a far kinder fan response if HG/Tatsunoko hadn’t been such asshats by holding on to the international distribution rights of Macros sand strangling the general audience of the new shows and merchandise. Personally I reserve all my fanboy hatred for Urotsukidōji. That movie and the media coverage around it drove the anime scene in my country underground for over a decade and starved the fans of new content.

[Drahken]

While I did indeed hear Robotech first, I enjoy the SDFM music much more especially the opening. Not to knock RT's music it was fine for what it was used for. The voice acting(Translation and robotech masters crap aside) was much better than the new Macross dub but that might just be first hearing bias there though.

But overall I prefer to watch my Animeigo release with the better Japanese track when I watch the series.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Drahken

[Macross007]

The AMERICAN singing by LYNN MINMEI in ROBOTECH was absolutely atrocious. I can't see how anyone would think she could sing. I mean c'mon! Just listen!! She's out of tune on EVERY SONG and can't hit cetain notes. Now instrumental-wise, I like both, but they are VERY different.

Even Shepard can't do worst than Reba West : Mass Effect: Commander Shepard Is Such A Jerk

Edited August 9, 2008 by Macross007

[Necron_99]

Strangely enough, Soundwave was recently asked this very same question. His answer?

"Macross Music Superior, Robotech Inferior"

'Nuff said!

I gotta agree with Soundwave on this one

[Keith]

hrn,

I think even though it was a complete creative murder of the show RT did do *some* things OK.

I will reiterate for the like, 4th time this thread that I never said the Minmay/Minmei music was good in english, even when I was 5 I thought it was AWFUL.

But the OP is better, and some of the BGM is really good.

This thread is NOT calculated to make a Macross fan's blood boil, just intended to start discussion.

-RF-26 AAC

I just don't agree with you at all there. Robotech intro is a cheesey superman rip-off. The Macross theme is full of passionate manly ballad goodness that only seems to get recognized in 70's/early 80's Japanese music. Hell, next thing you'll be saying you don't like the Galaxy Express 999 intro, or the Votoms intro. And if you dare say anything bad about the Uchuu Senkan Yamato intro, I'm pretty sure you'd get lynched in some area's.

I too saw robotech first, and topics like this make that damn incessant repeating bull repeat in my head just thinking about it. Don't like it, was never big on it as a kid, doubt I'll ever be big on it. The Macross soundtrack has a lot more style to it, more variety, more real freakin' intstruments.

Curiousity, your feelings on Runner?

[Hikuro]

See, if this were country, we'd of shot every last one who thought in some way, robotech is superior to macross, its like starting a jihad.

[fifbeat]

Robotech Soundtrack

The Good The music is pretty sweet and memorable for the most part. It gels nicely with what's going on in the tube. Some of the music gives the series an even faster pace than the original. I'm a big fan of the bittersweet and gloomy music: I think that's where the Robotech music shines the most. The romantic music is heart-warming as well. Not a big fan of the vocal music. But "To Be In Love" is fitting and "It's You" is decent. The musical version of "To Be In Love" will always associate with the romance/drama of Rick/Hikaru and Minmay. With the Robotech music, when it's good, it's GOOD, and when it's bad...

The Bad... it's HORRENDOUS. One of the musical bad points comes during that bit of music that sounds like a bad Trident Gum commercial from the 1980's. It's the one that plays during every mindless action-scene. I'm sure you guys know which one I'm talking about. Also, unlike the Japanese soundtrack, we're limited to only a few Minmay tunes (in Robotech's case, thank god for that). That song "My Time To Be A Star" is horrible. Maybe it's not too horrible, but it's just played way too many times. And like someone else said, the overall music is very loopy and Radio Shack-ish. It's doesn't hold up well against the test of time.

Macross Soundtrack:

The Good Most of the soundtrack could easily be for an epic motion picture in my opinion (but then again, Macross is pretty f'ing epic). Sure, the title theme is a little cheesy, but the rest of the music makes up for it. Again, I'm more of a fan of the bittersweet music. I don't know the title of the track, but it's the music that also appears in DYRL (when Claudia asks if Roy Died A Hero?) is spellbinding! Same goes for Mari Iijima's vocal work. Nearly every song is a great pop tune or ballad. Even without Macross, they'd be wonderful songs.

The Bad The main theme is a little annoying. Bits of the music sounds a little too dramatic at times. But it never gets as bad as Robotech.

-------

Bottomline: The Macross soundtrack wins over the Robotech soundtrack. Robotech's music never reaches that rich "we gave it our all" peak that Macross reaches. And none of the Robotech vocals can compare to the songwriting (whoever wrote them?) and performance of Mari Iijima.

Like most of us, Robotech as a whole was practically embedded into me as a child. Same goes for the music. Basically, the reason why anyone would think Robotech's music is better is because they're used to it. Period.

This isn't a matter of opinion, taste or perception. I could prove this on a etch-a-sketch. =)

Edited August 9, 2008 by fifbeat

[Radd]

It all comes down to opinion, unless you're looking at it from a technical composition standpoint. Macross soundtrack is longer, and so sees a lot less recycling. I'd have to sit down and listen to both for a while to compare, but it seems to me that the Macross compositions are also, in general, more complex.

I really can't see anyone trying to argue that Reba West was somehow better. I skinned some of the thread, but I didn't see anyone suggesting otherwise.

For the background, I can see personal preferences and nostalgia weighing in a lot. The Robotech BGM wasn't bad. I feel it comes across a lot more dated now than the Macross soundtrack, which more or less maintains that classical "timelessness" (though there are most certainly exceptions to that, like the main theme, which has a very definitive 70's/early 80's feel. And various bits throughout the soundtrack which reveal the influences of the time).

I love classical music, and movie soundtracks that use large orchestras. Robotech strikes me as the Saturday Morning version of that, whereas SDF:M's BGM could be more of the movie BGM variety, if that makes any sense? I enjoy both, but to be honest, the Macross OSTs are constantly in my MP3 playlist, and I listen bits of the soundtrack on a regular basis along with all my other favourites. The Robotech OST, on the other hand, I never bothered to rip to my computer, and the CD was a bit dusty when I removed it from the shelf the other day to pack it away for my upcoming move into a new apartment.

[sucker4meltrans]

sorry but anything related to that steaming pile of yukk de culture from harmony gold is no good .

[Graham]

I guess a lot of it comes down to which you grew up watching and heard first.

I was exposed to Macross first and didn't see any RT until years later.

I'm biased and love the Macross music. I can't stand the RT stuff, it's pure cheese and very inapropriate IMO.

But each to his/her own I guess.

Graham

[Mr March]

With all honesty, the musical scores for SDF Macross and Robotech are both dated and largely unremarkable.

The difference is the Macross music was good for what it was; the Robotech music was not. The SDF Macross music sounded like a quality television series score of that era; the Robotech music always sounded like a cheap, synthesized cartoon score of the time.

Robotech was re-edited like a typical American cartoon, it was re-written like a typical American cartoon, it was dubbed like a typical American cartoon and it was re-scored like a typical American cartoon. Compared to SDF Macross, Robotech was always the more infantilized version of the two; while SDF Macross was remarkably sophisticated for a children's show, Robotech was Americanized into a lower standard and stood out only due to the Japanese storytelling that survived all the tampering. The Robotech score was a major part of that infantilized editing, IMO.

[MilSpex]

Actually I just downloaded and listened to the RT soundtrack and its better than I remembered. All the Minmay songs are beautiful `80s niceness. I don`t know if its just coz I watched it and loved it when I was 7 years old and its nostalgic as hell but they`re not bad pop songs. Americans always did have more sole than Japanese. I`m not going to compare them because Macross and RT OSTs are completely different but I love them both for different reasons.

[dakedo]

RT's intro was ok, yeah just OK. Everything else about RT music is plain crap.

SDFM's intro was great.

How can you guys compare a synth with an orchestra?

[mk262]

The newer version of the aimo song that ranka sang during episode 18, is that out there on the internet anywhere? It's not on the macross frontier soundtrack.

[Gubaba]

With all honesty, the musical scores for SDF Macross and Robotech are both dated and largely unremarkable.

The difference is the Macross music was good for what it was; the Robotech music was not. The SDF Macross music sounded like a quality television series score of that era; the Robotech music always sounded like a cheap, synthesized cartoon score of the time.

Robotech was re-edited like a typical American cartoon, it was re-written like a typical American cartoon, it was dubbed like a typical American cartoon and it was re-scored like a typical American cartoon. Compared to SDF Macross, Robotech was always the more infantilized version of the two; while SDF Macross was remarkably sophisticated for a children's show, Robotech was Americanized into a lower standard and stood out only due to the Japanese storytelling that survived all the tampering. The Robotech score was a major part of that infantilized editing, IMO.

While I agree with the majority of what you say, let's be fair...Robotech wasn't infantilized or completely sanitized. People died in Robotech, which was a major shocker at the time. If you watch Voltron compared to Golion, or (especially) Battle of the Planets compared to Gatchaman...well, they're not even in the same league as Robotech. I strongly dislike Robotech for the changes made to the Macross (and, to a lesser degree, Mospeada) story, I hate the rationalizations and evasions of die-hard Robotech fans, and I abhor HG's "cut off your nose to spite big West's face" business practices...but Robotech was pretty revolutionary for its time.

The music sucks, though.

EDIT: As for the original poster's claim that this thread isn't flame bait, but a discussion generator...I have to wonder about the title. Asking WHY something is better or worse assumes that it IS better or worse, and brooks no denial. A better title for a discussion thread, I think, would've been "Which Music Is Better: Macross or Robotech?" Especially since it seems that very few people here agree with you, so the question of "why" it's better becomes nonsensical.

Edited August 10, 2008 by Gubaba

[Kronnang Dunn]

Ok, I know everyone hates the RT plotline, but it's not all bad, really!!

Yes, the Minmay vocals are terrible, but what I am talking about are the Ulpio Minucci symphonic bits used in the Macross Saga section.

Yeah, I grew up on RT, ok, but I've never even seen past episode 36. Never cared to.

Hell, for the first 18 years I knew of the series I only had the first 5 episodes-- that's it!!

I was watching SDF:M for the first time and I was like, wow, the RT music makes it so much better!!

So I got to thinking, what if someone were to say, use the good, Ulpio symphonic bits of the RT soundtrack, but keep the macross plotline and japanese language voiceovers?

Oh, to be more specific the vocals ALL suck and everything after Ep 36 sucks, too.

I think that would make the experience better, does anyone else think the RT soundtrack is better?

pleeeeeease don't flame meeee >_<

edited.

Well, first of all I think it was a pretty bad idea to post something like that in these forums, hehe... (Reminds me of that time when I got in a pretty tuff discussion with a Transformers Fanboy who kept saying Transformers was a very mature series in the Robotech forums a while ago, hehehe...).

Your comment makes me think if you actually have ever listened to the SDF Macross soundtrack at all... since Macross music is very good too...

I like both Robotech and Macross and I think that you can't just say that the music of one is better than the other because they are totally different and express totally different things.

Robotech synth music is great, fresh, dynamic, epic, cinematic, modern... but is more suited for an adventure sci-fi series mostly... Is kinda more by-the-numbers optimistic... Music for teens... Now, the themes I like a lot are the battle themes... like the Zentraedi theme and the Biomechanical one... The synths there were good, frantic and creepy...

Macross orchestral music is waaay more dramatic, soulfull and serious... More adult... The opening is excellent... those percussions are unforgettable... the Zentradi daiyousai was excellent too... And lots of the themes are full of nostalgia... Macross music is much much more romantic and mature... and most Macross themes are very very touching... waaay more than Robotech... I like Mari Iijima's songs much much more...

I recommend u download both soundtracks... I enjoy them both equally...

Edited August 10, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[fifbeat]

With all honesty, the musical scores for SDF Macross and Robotech are both dated and largely unremarkable.

The difference is the Macross music was good for what it was; the Robotech music was not. The SDF Macross music sounded like a quality television series score of that era; the Robotech music always sounded like a cheap, synthesized cartoon score of the time.

Robotech was re-edited like a typical American cartoon, it was re-written like a typical American cartoon, it was dubbed like a typical American cartoon and it was re-scored like a typical American cartoon. Compared to SDF Macross, Robotech was always the more infantilized version of the two; while SDF Macross was remarkably sophisticated for a children's show, Robotech was Americanized into a lower standard and stood out only due to the Japanese storytelling that survived all the tampering. The Robotech score was a major part of that infantilized editing, IMO.

I don't think Macross' score is outdated at all. Much better than any TV series of that era. Maybe some of it. Not all. If anything, the soundtrack was kinda "retro" to begin with with its classical goodness.

No way in HELLL that Robotech was done up to be a typical American cartoon. They edited what they could to get airplay. Not sure what you were watching at the time, but a typical american cartoon of that time would be something like He-man or Thundercats. Robotech was a lot more "adult" than those. A lot more. And the dialogue was actually sophisticated. At the time, late teens, and even twenty-somethings were watching Robotech.

[Radd]

I guess a lot of it comes down to which you grew up watching and heard first.

I believe this can certainly influence a person's opinion, but it doesn't always determine it. I started out with Robotech, even had the 2 CD soundtrack HG released in the mid-late 90's, but I enjoy the Macross music a whole lot more.

Not saying the SDF:M soundtrack is on par with Bach or anything, just that between soundtracks for 80's animated series, the SDF:M soundtrack is much more to my liking than the Robotech soundtrack, which I find to be a lot cheesier overall.

[Radd]

No way in HELLL that Robotech was done up to be a typical American cartoon. They edited what they could to get airplay. Not sure what you were watching at the time, but a typical american cartoon of that time would be something like He-man or Thundercats. Robotech was a lot more "adult" than those. A lot more. And the dialogue was actually sophisticated. At the time, late teens, and even twenty-somethings were watching Robotech.

I think they meant by comparison. Robotech was really mature and sophisticated for an animated series on American television, certainly, but it's still fairly watered down compared to the original material.

[Mr March]

Gubaba

Re-read what I posted carefully. I never said Robotech was completely sanitized, but Robotech was unquestionably infantilized. The RT edit removed scenes of violence, more disturbing drama and sexual innuendo. It was dumbed down compared to SDF Macross. But as I said for an "American" cartoon, even in it's diluted state, Robotech still benefited from the Japanese storytelling (ie, drama, character deaths, etc). The only reason Robotech was so popular at the time was because American cartoons were so patronizingly sanitized that even an Americanized, dumbed down, tampered Japanese cartoon was considered revolutionary by comparison.

fifbeat

See above

[Gubaba]

Gubaba

Re-read what I posted carefully. I never said Robotech was completely sanitized, but Robotech was unquestionably infantilized. The RT edit removed scenes of violence, more disturbing drama and sexual innuendo. It was dumbed down compared to SDF Macross. But as I said for an "American" cartoon, even in it's diluted state, Robotech still benefited from the Japanese storytelling (ie, drama, character deaths, etc). The only reason Robotech was so popular at the time was because American cartoons were so patronizingly sanitized that even an Americanized, dumbed down, tampered Japanese cartoon was considered revolutionary by comparison.

I read what you wrote carefully, thank you very much. I guess i shoudln't have used your word "infantilized," because I was mostly referring to this:

Robotech was re-edited like a typical American cartoon, it was re-written like a typical American cartoon, it was dubbed like a typical American cartoon and it was re-scored like a typical American cartoon.

And as I said, I agree with most of what you said, but it was certainly not re-edited or re-written like a typical American cartoon. They could have gone the "Sta Blazers" route and say that all the Valkyries desroyed were robot-controlled. They could've said that Focker "was sent back to earth for medical care," like "Sven" in Voltron. They could've pulled a "Battle of the Planets" and re-edited the episodes that the original story was completely absent from the finished product.

And, even compared to Macross, I wouldn't call it infantilized. Robotech is PG to Macross's PG-13.

It's a small point, and mostly a question of degree, but there are FAR more atrocious edits of Japanese shows out there.

[sucker4meltrans]

Any thing and i mean anything associated with Harmony gold and that bastardazation they created is absolute rubbish.

[fifbeat]

They could've said that Focker "was sent back to earth for medical care," like "Sven" in Voltron.

lol! I know, huh? By the way, who is that Voltron character you're talking about? Was he the kung fu guy? I never knew the story behind that dude and why he just all of the sudden vanished (with the princess, I think, taking over his lion). What's the deal?

Mr. March, I re-read what you said. =)

[Kronnang Dunn]

With all honesty, the musical scores for SDF Macross and Robotech are both dated and largely unremarkable.

Unlike...? Please, tell me of any Sci-Fi Space Opera animated T.V. show with a better score these days...

Edited August 11, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[fifbeat]

With all honesty, the musical scores for SDF Macross and Robotech are both dated and largely unremarkable.

That's the line that gets me the most, too.

Both scores are great. And SDF's is amazing. Especially for the fact that it's just a TV series.

They don't make 'em like they used to.

[Radd]

The Captain Herlock: Endless Odyssey score is all kinds of fantastic. So was Kevin Manthei's work for Invader Zim, and a lot of music created specifically for each episode. The recent Tetsujin 28 series had a great soundtrack, too. The latter two aren't space opera, but dunno why that should matter if we're just talking about tv series bgm and the quality thereof.

Edited August 11, 2008 by Radd

[Mr March]

Gubaba

I don't believe you are re-reading and I requested in good faith.

The way I see it, the main point was never in debate. But obviously there's an objection to the word "infantilized" and this is somehow worth debate because you feel it doesn't fit the degree of re-editing and re-writing done to make Robotech. That's not an argument worth having and far too tangential to the actual opinion posted. The word was chosen because it fit, not for any imagined slight (other than my obvious distaste for tampering done to SDF Macross in the RT edit).

fifbeat

Thank you.

Kronnang Dunn

A debate over your taste in music? I think I'll expend effort on discussion

[Gubaba]

Gubaba

I don't believe you are re-reading and I requested in good faith.

The way I see it, the main point was never in debate. But obviously there's an objection to the word "infantilized" and this is somehow worth debate because you feel it doesn't fit the degree of re-editing and re-writing done to make Robotech. That's not an argument worth having and far too tangential to the actual opinion posted. The word was chosen because it fit, not for any imagined slight (other than my obvious distaste for tampering done to SDF Macross in the RT edit).

No, I did go back and re-read it. I basically agree, but I guess I just thought your wording was a little too strong. Either way, you're right...it's a debate not worth having ("Robotech: Lame Edits or THE LAMEST Edits?" ).

[fifbeat]

Even though I like Macross: SDF a LOT more; I still don't see why people hate Robotech so much. If anything, the only thing I dislike about Robotech is the changing of the story around to connect all three of the unrelated series... but that's very minor, especially considering the enjoyment Robotech has brought to us.

Did you guys really expect HG to bring Macross over to America, release it AS IS, with every kid reading subtitles?

Edited August 11, 2008 by fifbeat