Macross Frontier Episode 18 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[taksraven]

Great episode, BTW

Taksraven

Edited August 11, 2008 by taksraven

[Morpheus]

I was very happy to see Battle 25. I was really starting to think that it was NEVER going to be shown. Are they ever going to show the Monster in Battroid mode I wonder?

Taksraven

They will show it, and it will dance in Ranka style

[mike_s_6]

I did some edits to Ranshe's hair and eye color (not that I believe that they're mother and daughter or something, just wanted to tinker with Photoshop a bit):

Spitting image eh

[grss1982]

They will show it, and it will dance in Ranka style

That would be AWESOME!!!

Anyways did anybody take a look at Canaria's seat in the Monster? It looked suspiciously like an Ex-Gear system.

Check Here: http://i37.tinypic.com/23h5awy.jpg

The Helmet is a bit different though compared to Alto's: http://i33.tinypic.com/bv86r.jpg

But the shoulder parts on Canaria's seat is almost the same as Alto's.

Edited August 11, 2008 by grss1982

[dreamweaver13]

I did some edits to Ranshe's hair and eye color (not that I believe that they're mother and daughter or something, just wanted to tinker with Photoshop a bit):

Spitting image eh

OMG, that's sheryl right there!

[magnuskn]

I did some edits to Ranshe's hair and eye color (not that I believe that they're mother and daughter or something, just wanted to tinker with Photoshop a bit):

Spitting image eh

Now, if that would look anything like Sheryls hair-colour, maybe I could concur.

Edited August 11, 2008 by magnuskn

[Lethalzero]

still no sub at veoh..

i hope someone is kind enough to upload it there..

or limewire.. 0.0

anyone 0.0

[grss1982]

BTW...I really liked the comments of Crusader over at http://that.animeblogger.net, regarding Kikuko Inoue (Grace's VA)........

Taken From: http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/09/ma...e-broken-sheryl

While Grace has been quite a bastard, she has nonetheless been a magnificent bastard with the way she has manipulated every one into following her tune. I wonder if Kikuko Inoue is having too much fun with this role after all it’s not one of her typical roles and mein gott she sounds sultrier and hawter than in her usual roles. Grace is incredible dangerous given how she just snatched Sheryl like that and started blowing bitter words into her ears. I don’t know about you but it looked incredibly yuri…

You know its been really quite a departure for Kikuko Inoue. I mean everybody identifies her as the voice of Belldandy of Ah My Godess, and now suddenly she's playing a villain. A real basteard of a villain at that.

In the first few episodes I really thought Grace was gonna be like the motherly figure of Sheryl all the way, then suddenly she's revealed as the villain, WTF!!!???

Edited August 11, 2008 by grss1982

[flabortast]

It's nothing new to Kikuko Inoue. SHe either plays the Belldandy type OR the bitch woman type. Look up I-No from Guilty Gear. She's done villainesses before...

[RedWolf]

Also Kikuko Inoue has played a Macross character before. She was Liatris of the Milky Dolls in VFX-2.

[mike_s_6]

Now, if that would look anything like Sheryls hair-colour, maybe I could concur.

Is this a tad better?

[magnuskn]

Is this a tad better?

It serves, I guess.

Their looks are mightily similar, as I´ve said before. Now, I´ve inched away from the "Shery = Ranshe Meis daughter", because obviously Sheryl wasn´t shown in the flashbacks and pictures to be in Ranshes family. Also, she should have Zentran blood if she´d be descended of Ranshe Mei, as someone slyly has noted.

However, those similar looks are still suspicious. I think something *is there*, but without further information I cannot put my finger on it.

Of course the designers could well have made Ranshe Mei so visually similar to Sheryl by error, but that still seems unlikely to me. They haven´t been sloppy so far in the series, why exactly here?

[mike_s_6]

It serves, I guess.

Their looks are mightily similar, as I´ve said before. Now, I´ve inched away from the "Shery = Ranshe Meis daughter", because obviously Sheryl wasn´t shown in the flashbacks and pictures to be in Ranshes family. Also, she should have Zentran blood if she´d be descended of Ranshe Mei, as someone slyly has noted.

However, those similar looks are still suspicious. I think something *is there*, but without further information I cannot put my finger on it.

Of course the designers could well have made Ranshe Mei so visually similar to Sheryl by error, but that still seems unlikely to me. They haven´t been sloppy so far in the series, why exactly here?

There's really no hard evidence that Sheryl is related to Ranshe (they only look similar and have one syllable in their name as the same, but that doesn't mean anything). Let's just sit back and watch

[Duke Togo]

Is this a tad better?

Well, they certainly have the same character designer. So, my question is, just how convoluted do you guys want Sheryl's lineage to be?

[VF-25S Full Armour]

It serves, I guess.

Their looks are mightily similar, as I´ve said before. Now, I´ve inched away from the "Shery = Ranshe Meis daughter", because obviously Sheryl wasn´t shown in the flashbacks and pictures to be in Ranshes family. Also, she should have Zentran blood if she´d be descended of Ranshe Mei, as someone slyly has noted.

However, those similar looks are still suspicious. I think something *is there*, but without further information I cannot put my finger on it.

Of course the designers could well have made Ranshe Mei so visually similar to Sheryl by error, but that still seems unlikely to me. They haven´t been sloppy so far in the series, why exactly here?

Well, Sheryl claims to be fully human, but even Ranka who is 25% zentradi could have fooled anyone as a full human on visual inspection alone if not for her green hair colour, assuming that it is her real hair colour. Sheryl's hair colour is simply impossible for a natural full human, unless of course it is dyed the same way as Maximilian Jenius's famous blue locks.

No one's mistaking someone such as Guld or Klan-Klan as a human though. Their ears are a dead giveaway. And there is no way Miriya's undercover mission on SDF-1 could have been pulled off if not for her long hair hiding her pointed meltrandi ears all the time As for hair colour? Well, everyone could have just assumed that her was dyed green.

Since Galaxy was so heavily into bleeding edge tech, it's not inconceivable that she was a genetically engineered specimen based on Ranshe's DNA which was discarded for who knows what reason, but as we all know now Sheryl is like a Terminator in nature (i.e. absolutely will not stop fighting until the bitter end). Somehow, this remarkably resilient specimen was picked up from the slums by Grace as she happens to be both a great research subject AND integral to project "Fairy 9"?

Just my wild speculation, but since the details are so sketchy now anything is possible, especially with the fact that she was an orphan (I am 90% sure of her orphaned status ATM).

[Duke Togo]

Since Galaxy was so heavily into bleeding edge tech, it's not inconceivable that she was a genetically engineered specimen based on Ranshe's DNA which was discarded for who knows what reason, but as we all know now Sheryl is like a Terminator in nature (i.e. absolutely will not stop fighting until the bitter end). Somehow, this remarkably resilient specimen was picked up from the slums by Grace as she happens to be both a great research subject AND integral to project "Fairy 9"?

What about Shery's memories shown early in the series of being alone on the streets on the Galaxy?

I'm sorry, I'm just not buying Sheryl being a Ranshe clone with Mao's blood or whatever it is you guys want her to be at this point. Even Lucas wouldn't come up with a plotline this convoluted and silly.

[Duke Togo]

No one's mistaking someone such as Guld or Klan-Klan as a human though. Their ears are a dead giveaway. And there is no way Miriya's undercover mission on SDF-1 could have been pulled off if not for her long hair hiding her pointed meltrandi ears all the time As for hair colour? Well, everyone could have just assumed that her was dyed green.

I don't recall Zentradi having anything but normal ears in the original series. What we've seen since then is retcon. And its "Milia", not "Miriya".

[mike_s_6]

Well, they certainly have the same character designer. So, my question is, just how convoluted do you guys want Sheryl's lineage to be?

I don't want it convoluted, I'm just Photoshopping, just giving a little hand to someone from Animesuki who put I think about 6 photos of them side by side just for comparison purposes. I just made it a little easier for that person to compare I think people are drawing the argument from the fact that all the Macross F characters so far look so different from each other, and then we have a near match

And... you mentioned "What about Shery's memories shown early in the series of being alone on the streets on the Galaxy?" I think the person you quoted mentioned that she could have been discarded. She doesn't remember her mother's face either.

Edited August 11, 2008 by mike_s_6

[VF-25S Full Armour]

I don't recall Zentradi having anything but normal ears in the original series. What we've seen since then is retcon. And its "Milia", not "Miriya".

It's Milia Fallyna Jenius to be exact. My mistake for mixing it up with the Robotech version of her name. And I do assume that the current pointy ears as the canonical version of zentradi ears, which makes much more sense to me than normal human ears. Just think of it as retconning, S.K. style.

IF she was a discarded subject, it is also possible that she was discarded when she was already a self aware child with some limited but luckily sufficient survivability (e.g. age 5 or over, when one is old enough to speak and take care of ones basic needs e.g. feeding and cleaning oneself). Her experiences of struggling to survive every single day on the streets would fully explain her unbreakable tenacity.

Of course, I'm not saying that I believe that Sheryl's past is necessarily THAT convoluted. As I said at the end of my post, it's pure speculation.

However, one must always be open to whatever possibilities that of what the truth could be be.

What concerns me even more now is Grace herself. Has she actually been fully digitized i.e. all her organic components completely discarded and her consciousness fully uploaded into a computer, or was she an AI in an android body all along? Or does she actually have her original organic brain somewhere in a titanium/carbon nanotube braincase like Motoko Kusanagi from GITS?

Edited August 11, 2008 by VF-25S Full Armour

[kamotekid]

i think sheryl's a ranshe clone... and that maybe those glowing critters in ranka's tummy has something to do with how to cure sheryl's illness. just speculating.

[Duke Togo]

i think sheryl's a ranshe clone...

With Mao's blood type?

[magnuskn]

I don't want it convoluted, I'm just Photoshopping, just giving a little hand to someone from Animesuki who put I think about 6 photos of them side by side just for comparison purposes. I just made it a little easier for that person to compare I think people are drawing the argument from the fact that all the Macross F characters so far look so different from each other, and then we have a near match

And... you mentioned "What about Shery's memories shown early in the series of being alone on the streets on the Galaxy?" I think the person you quoted mentioned that she could have been discarded. She doesn't remember her mother's face either.

Ah, that was me with the photos.

And the memory Sheryl has of being a child on Macross Galaxy ( in episode 6, when Alto brings her back her earring ) shows her watching as a crowd of people march by, with a teddy in her hand. She isn´t shown as a street child in that scene. In fact, here´s the picture:

Some people said back then that the memory clearly is fake, which well could be. Ah, damn, even I don´t know how this all fits together. We´ll have to wait if the writers decide to revisit the whole thing.

Edited August 11, 2008 by magnuskn

[RedWolf]

With Mao's blood type?

Mao is Ranshe's mom?

[DeeBot]

Just wondering about something... do we have confirmation that Sheryl's name was invented? Would explain why she seems to think invoking her name is some sort of talisman for indomitableness. Sorta a verbal crutch, similar to her "lucky" earrings.

(Also, you could see it as asserting her identity. We/she might never know the real truth about her heritage, sorta like how we never really knew the truth about Basara's. But it doesn't matter, because she'll have forged an identity that's truly her own by the end of the series.)

As for the flashback memory... it's pretty stylized. While I don't know if it's fake, it could certainly be wrong. Memories at that age are unreliable. Animation is art, not documentary. Not everything that's drawn needs to follow the literal truth. The sequence might merely be suggestive of a hazy childhood memory, embellished with nostalgia.

Contrast this with Ranka's flashback of seeing some sort of ship (or is it a FAST pack ) destroyed. That's not at all stylized, probably dates back to a similar age (or perhaps slightly later), and we can probably assume it's accurate.

Edited August 11, 2008 by DeeBot

[HMP_Goose]

Annnnd our first functioning sub (read: .avi) is Lunar!

[VF-25S Full Armour]

Mao is Ranshe's mom?

Or rather, she is just one of the constituents of her specially cooked up DNA? Mao's blood type might be quite common after space war one though, with humanity shrunk to a few % of itself and all sorts of interbreeding between all sort s of people occurring. It is quite possible that she was created to be the perfect "galactic siren", thrown into and "orphanage" (with corporations in control, ANYTHING is possible) which was in fact just a cover for their "Project Fairies". She was thrown out somewhere down the line for who knows what reason (maybe her stubborn nature was causing complications?"). If my genetic engineering theory holds true, then technically she is an orphan since she has no biological parent in the conventional sense (i.e. no individual mom and dad). The guys at the "orphanage" could simply tell her that she's some random orphan from the streets just to keep things under wraps.

Using the Hitman as an example, there's Mr. 47 who was created from a mix of DNA of multiple individuals in the quest to genetically engineer the perfect Assassin. He was never told his true origin and was raised as the perfect killing machine. If you follow the games' storylines as the canonical source, he only figured out his true genetic heritage when he returned to the asylum (which was just a cover for a genetic engineering lab) he escaped from in the 1st place.

As we've seen Sheryl is pretty much in the dark over her true current condition, which Michael&Klan managed to discover as a V-type virus infection, something they later confirmed to her.

[VF-25 Messiah]

Wait, so you're saying she was genetically raised then thrown away, then found by Grace and experimented on to be thrown away again?

[-Snowblind-]

...Yeah, not buying that myself. I think it's as simple as her being a street urchin that Grace chose as an experiment that no one would miss if something went wrong.

[RF-26AAC]

...Yeah, not buying that myself. I think it's as simple as her being a street urchin that Grace chose as an experiment that no one would miss if something went wrong.

I 2nd that

[magnuskn]

Wait, so you're saying she was genetically raised then thrown away, then found by Grace and experimented on to be thrown away again?

Well, let´s see if I can cook up something which sounds half-way probable. ^^

- Sheryl is related to Mao Nome. Her last name and her blood type ( Alpha Bombay ) make this a vague, yet not improbable connection.

- Sheryl looks very identical to Ranshe Mei. This could be simply be put down to inattention of the character design team, but so far they have given us very distinct characters and the show has made very few errors in its storytelling. So I count this as a probability that Ranshe Mei is somehow related to Mao Nome, but not Sheryls mother.

- In that vein, Sheryl clearly is not a direct member of Ranshe Meis family, as she wasn´t shown in any picture or flashback featuring Ranka.

- If Sheryl was a relative of Mao Nome, it stands to reason that she was on the 117th Research Fleet. Obviously, that would make her a survivor of the self-same. My presumption is that she was transferred to Macross Galaxy as a refugee. There she landed on the street after some time, because nobody cared much about a refugee from another fleet.

- This also would be an explanation how she got infected with the V-Type disease, maybe she got wounded by a Vajra during the attack on the 117th.

- As a counterpoint, Sheryl remembers herself being a lonely orphan on Galaxy, as can be seen in her short memory flashback during episode 6 ( picture a few posts above ). This memory could have been faked, as it was shown very stylized. Although it could very well be argued that it is a traumatic memory of her past.

- Grace could very well have been watching Sheryl, waiting for the perfect moment to offer her everything Sheryl could have asked for.

Now, because I don´t want to only present my side, I´ll take on some points made by people who don´t like my little hypothesis and some doubts of mine about it.

- Sheryl is Fairy-9. Therefore it stands to reason that there were eight other "Fairys" before her. Nothing is known as to their identity and their final fate. Although it probably wasn´t a nice end. :

- Sheryl could well have been infected with the V-Type disease by Grace after she was picked up in the alley. Only because she was checked into the hospital doesn´t mean that she already had the disease then.

- The childhood memory of Sheryl has been deemed an "obviously fake" one by some people in the past. As it is a very stylized one, it could well be so.

- Sheryl thinks her earrings are keepsakes from her mother. Now, how would a street urchin possess obviously valuable earrings such as those? In Sheryls flashback in episode 18 we see the earrings as they probably were given to her by Grace.

- Those hints taken together could very well indicate that Sheryl really *was* a street urchin, but got a personality implant, maybe a cosmetic touch-up ( to look more like Ranshe Mei, for whatever reason... maybe Grace had the hots for Ranshe? ) and then infected by the V-Type disease by Graces faction. That also could explain why her last name is "Nome" and maybe even how she got Alpha Bombay blood... I wouldn´t put it past Graces faction to be able to exchange a persons blood type.

If it is that, expect even more soul-searching from Sheryl as soon as she gets wind of that. Her whole identity would be fake.

Edited August 11, 2008 by magnuskn

[Impreszive]

Is there a sub of this somewhere? Veoh only has raws. Grr.

[magnuskn]

Is there a sub of this somewhere? Veoh only has raws. Grr.

Look on www.tokyotosho.com for subs, there is the one from gg and now the one from Lunar.

[VF-25 Messiah]

Well, let´s see if I can cook up something which sounds half-way probable. ^^

All right, here's what I think

- Sheryl may be related to Mao. May be. I personally don't think she is, but I can certainly see where this is coming from.

- I don't think that Ranshe and Sheryl do look that alike really. Honestly don't. So all ideas of kinship here based on looks alone don't do it for me. This is also where I feel that all these kinship theories stem from. Their supposedly 'identical appearance'.

- I think Sheryl has the V-type because Grace purposely infected her with it. Grace was trying to make a new Q1, ie Ranka. Ranka clearly has the V-type as well, but in her case the infection seems to be 'stable', and it gives her the ability to emit fold waves when singing, affecting the Vajra. Sheryl was not so lucky.

- The flashback from episode 6 hasn't been 'disproved' or anything. Granted the one we see in this episode shows her in a far worse situation than the brief stylistic flash in episode 6.

- I'm one of the people who think there might have been 8 other 'Sheryls' before her. Galaxy Anonymous likes to categorize everything neatly with numbers.

Ranka is Q1, (Queen-1?) because she's the first of her 'kind'.

- The earings are made of Fold quartz, so they would almost certainly have had to be given to her by Grace. Or Mao if that theory is true.

[magnuskn]

All right, here's what I think

- Sheryl may be related to Mao. May be. I personally don't think she is, but I can certainly see where this is coming from.

- I don't think that Ranshe and Sheryl do look that alike really. Honestly don't. So all ideas of kinship here based on looks alone don't do it for me. This is also where I feel that all these kinship theories stem from. Their supposedly 'identical appearance'.

- I think Sheryl has the V-type because Grace purposely infected her with it. Grace was trying to make a new Q1, ie Ranka. Ranka clearly has the V-type as well, but in her case the infection seems to be 'stable', and it gives her the ability to emit fold waves when singing, affecting the Vajra. Sheryl was not so lucky.

- The flashback from episode 6 hasn't been 'disproved' or anything. Granted the one we see in this episode shows her in a far worse situation than the brief stylistic flash in episode 6.

- I'm one of the people who think there might have been 8 other 'Sheryls' before her. Galaxy Anonymous likes to categorize everything neatly with numbers.

Ranka is Q1, (Queen-1?) because she's the first of her 'kind'.

- The earings are made of Fold quartz, so they would almost certainly have had to be given to her by Grace. Or Mao if that theory is true.

Well, if you read my whole post then you have seen that I postulated a hypothesis much like your own. Still, a lot things don´t add up yet. Neither hypothesis can be disproved, because we are missing lots of facts.

It all depends if the writers want to share more of those hints with us, but if they wouldn´t do that, why raise them in the first place?

[VF-25 Messiah]

Well, if you read my whole post then you have seen that I postulated a hypothesis much like your own. Still, a lot things don´t add up yet. Neither hypothesis can be disproved, because we are missing lots of facts.

It all depends if the writers want to share more of those hints with us, but if they wouldn´t do that, why raise them in the first place?

I did read your whole post. Then I made my own.

Mine doesn't disprove yours, nor do I ever try to claim that it does.

And yes there's a lot that doesn't add up. I've no doubt I'm going to have revision this quite a bit after just 1 or 2 more episodes.