Macross Frontier Episode 18 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[mike_s_6]

That's exactly what I'm thinking.

btw how do u guys think abt the new OP? I think it's cool, but the ppl in the Chinese forums are complaining too much, is it really that bad?

I like it... but there are too many rehashed footage, the new scenes are not that smoothly animated, even for an OP. What are they complaining over in the Chinese forums?

[aerocombatpilot]

btw how do u guys think abt the new OP? I think it's cool, but the ppl in the Chinese forums are complaining too much, is it really that bad?

I would not complain about the new opening if they would put more into combat scenes and not re-use the same footage over and over. However given the fact that we've seen Alto shoot the same missles again and again, then yes I would complain about the new OP; not that it's bad, just that there are other areas that NEED the attention!

[Shaka_Z]

My guess is Alto's mysterious mother figures into the conspiracy somehow... would be rather funny if Alto is the true Nome in all this...

that's my feeling as well... given Alto's flashbacks to his own childhood, it is *remotely* possible that Mao is his mother. if this is the case, it may explain many things concerning the Elder Saotome's attitude towards his wayward son. imagine that while she did marry Alto's father and bore him a son, she still harbored something of a torch for shin kudo after all those years, and encouraged Alto's love of flying from early on because of it. if Alto's dad was aware of this on some level, it would have caused a considerable amount of stress in the relationship, possibly leading to an estrangement when Mao left to pursue her research with the 117th fleet. In essence, Alto would have been left behind to be the target for his father's own feelings of inadequacy in comparison to a 'dead' rival he had never met, and Alto's split from the family business to pursue that dream would really piss him off.

wow... I can actually see that having happened.

[jenius]

One problem, by Macross standards on love and relationships, Mao would be too old to be Alto's mom.

[Master Dex]

that's my feeling as well... given Alto's flashbacks to his own childhood, it is *remotely* possible that Mao is his mother. if this is the case, it may explain many things concerning the Elder Saotome's attitude towards his wayward son. imagine that while she did marry Alto's father and bore him a son, she still harbored something of a torch for shin kudo after all those years, and encouraged Alto's love of flying from early on because of it. if Alto's dad was aware of this on some level, it would have caused a considerable amount of stress in the relationship, possibly leading to an estrangement when Mao left to pursue her research with the 117th fleet. In essence, Alto would have been left behind to be the target for his father's own feelings of inadequacy in comparison to a 'dead' rival he had never met, and Alto's split from the family business to pursue that dream would really piss him off.

wow... I can actually see that having happened.

That's not a bad idea. Those as Jenius said before me Mao would be considered old for Ranzou. Still though it would solve the love triangle the way Star Wars did it, one of the girls is the heroes sister, lol. It also wouldn't bother me because I have been rooting for Alto and Sheryl. Not that I don't like Ranka, she's great, I just can't see her and Alto together.

[Gubaba]

One problem, by Macross standards on love and relationships, Mao would be too old to be Alto's mom.

And HOW old was Millia when she had Mylene...?

[RedWolf]

And HOW old was Millia when she had Mylene...?

Millia was 16 I think when she had Komallia. Macross 7 was 35 years after SDFM and Mylene became 15 so *mentally calculates* Millia was 41 when she had Mylene.

Millia is a Meltrandi so her getting menopause at her age is doubtfull. Besides she didn't seem to age that much. Her old contemporary rival Chlore looks younger than her.

Unfortunately younger naturally born Zentradi and Basara call her granny much to her chargin.

After reading Macross 7 Trash Max states that he'll never fool around with his wife. Confirming Shiba Midou isn't his son.

Millia already gave birth to 7 girls and still looks young. That's Meltran equipment it does not wear out no matter how many times you use it. Max made the right choice.

Though compartively Shammy had 11 kids compared to Millia.

Humans almost rendered extinct by Bodolzaa led to a baby making overdrive of the species.

I'm sure Earth and the NUNG appreciates Chlore's Meltran fleet joining them.

Edited August 10, 2008 by RedWolf

[Master Dex]

That is a point, despite Japanese standards in the future after Earth and humanity was nearly decimated, no matter how well they got back on track later with Zentradi assistance and cloning their ideals may have changed. Mao being older than the man very well may not matter.

[dreamweaver13]

cant u guys see the 'face'? the hair is very obvious, and the one i outlined has some lines for where the eyes and nose are....

looks like 2 heads joined at the top to me.... and the whole body is wrapped up

i get the birdman vibe...

is it Ranshe?? Dr Mao?

wow. and right after i finish watching "Shutter" (original version). now i'm creeping out.

[dreamweaver13]

that's my feeling as well... given Alto's flashbacks to his own childhood, it is *remotely* possible that Mao is his mother. if this is the case, it may explain many things concerning the Elder Saotome's attitude towards his wayward son. imagine that while she did marry Alto's father and bore him a son, she still harbored something of a torch for shin kudo after all those years, and encouraged Alto's love of flying from early on because of it. if Alto's dad was aware of this on some level, it would have caused a considerable amount of stress in the relationship, possibly leading to an estrangement when Mao left to pursue her research with the 117th fleet. In essence, Alto would have been left behind to be the target for his father's own feelings of inadequacy in comparison to a 'dead' rival he had never met, and Alto's split from the family business to pursue that dream would really piss him off.

wow... I can actually see that having happened.

Mao's too old. (although if you look at alto's father, he does look old too. maybe kabuki actors don't age well. hehe.)

Alto's flashbacks as a child was also in Frontier (see the white outlines in the sky).

Mao disappeared 11 years ago. and before that i presume she was on the 117th fleet the entire time several years prior. thus, she couldn't have been in that flashback.

Even as a remote possibility, i don't see it.

but nevertheless, you're right that it would be a biggest kick in the balls for speculators everywhere. "Ranka or Sheryl's grandma? hell no, she's alto's mother!!"

[tankf77]

In Episode 18, Alto's bro. told Alto that Sheryl called the Saotome family for help. I wondered if he "purposely" pulled that stunt on Alto or Sheryl really did ask them for help.

[Repiv_Onex]

...about the new OP; not that it's bad, just that there are other areas that NEED the attention!

Do u mean those split sec scenes that Sheyrl was squeeezing grabbing her boobs dreams and hopes?

Those who didnt catch those split sec could visit here for pics http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=462160562

*Hides

[vanpang]

Do u mean those split sec scenes that Sheyrl was squeeezing grabbing her boobs dreams and hopes?

Those who didnt catch those split sec could visit here for pics http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=462160562

*Hides

Hey was that in the opening ? Is that real or photoshop ?

[UN Spacy]

Let that be a lesson to you non believers out there.

NEVER let go of your hopes and dreams......especially when they're THAT firm and supple.

[Chronocidal]

Hmm.. actually, even if Alto is Mao's daughter, I don't see it being an issue with Sheryl, since Sheryl most likely isn't related to Mao at all. Hmm.. so, if Mao disappeared 11 years ago, alto would've been 6-7 years old, young enough for those flashbacks easily. Only problem is that I don't see Mao being even near Frontier around that time. Also, I watched the flashback in Ep11 again, and his mom really doesn't look like it could be Mao. The hairstyle is wrong, based on the computer photo, and she's wearing fancier clothing, more like Alto and his father.

Edit: Omg.. I love freudian typos. Yeah, Alto would have to be Mao's son, not her daughter.

Edited August 10, 2008 by Chronocidal

[grss1982]

Do u mean those split sec scenes that Sheyrl was squeeezing grabbing her boobs dreams and hopes?

Those who didnt catch those split sec could visit here for pics http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=462160562

*Hides

She held it that HARD?

BTW, thanks for the link, since from I found this very cool ascii:

[Keith]

cant u guys see the 'face'? the hair is very obvious, and the one i outlined has some lines for where the eyes and nose are....

looks like 2 heads joined at the top to me.... and the whole body is wrapped up

i get the birdman vibe...

is it Ranshe?? Dr Mao?

Hmm, mayhaps those faces are Sara & Shin, and that's some kind of freaky evolution of the AFOS hiding in fold space.

I really don't think Kawamori will turn the end battle of Frontier into a fanwank for 7 fans especially considering the love/hate nature of the series among Macross fandom as well as the massive amount of new fans watching the show. Also Grace will probably be in Battle Galaxy by in the end fight.. I'm guessing that Battle Frontier will end up being one of the "big" loses in the final battle along with one or two of the following characters in Ozma, Michael, Klan and Luca. Sheryl's singing image is imposed over the Quarter in the OP similar to how Ranka's is imposed over the Monster and we know that the Quarter Captain doesn't mind Sheryl XD

The love hate relationship is only in the U.S., 7 was super popular in Japan no question.

[Shun]

That's exactly what I'm thinking.

btw how do u guys think abt the new OP? I think it's cool, but the ppl in the Chinese forums are complaining too much, is it really that bad?

yeah i dont really like it too, cept for some parts like the Battle Frontier pic, and Sheryl sinking (eva feel?)... too many re-used footage making it boring and gives me the feeling animators didn't put much effort in the OP. And Sheryl squeezing her boob is really quite lame IMO (even though it was in the story). i guess Sheryl needed to do that for comeback

/ducks projectiles

You meant "among Macross World fandom", right?

lol... definitely.

Do you think 7 is universally loved outside of Macross World or something? And yes it was very popular in Japan but it did that by bringing in a new generation of fans. It's not like it's tv ratings ever compared to the original Macross.. and IIRC this didn't air after midnight like Frontier.

The firebomber music will be remembered better than the actual show itself.

Seems like many people somehow forget Macross is a JAPANESE ANIMATION, its main target audience are the japanese, and NOT Macross World M7 haters. Even though I must point out that in MW there are many fans of M7 - I, for one.

That said, i'm not really keen to see Battle 7 taking up an important role in Frontier, although it would be nice to see it.

[Kronnang Dunn]

The GG sub has Grace all but telling Sheryl that Grace got her infected. Immediately after discovering Sheryl, Grace took her to a hospital for a "check-up". It appears that was used as a cover to infect her. Michael and Clan Clan also discover a picture of Sheryl's "check-up" (the name isn't provided, but they recognize her) when they conduct their research, and she's explicitly identified as someone with the V-Type virus.

So no, there isn't any other infection. It's confirmed to be the V-Type. And while it's not flat out stated, imo it's heavily implied that Grace infected Sheryl.

I already had that corrected dummy...

I watched the gg episode myself and according to their subs Sheryl's got the V-Type infection in her. An article regarding her disease was posted by Grace O'Connor in Cosmo Nature in 2053, when Sheryl was 11 years old... Apparently Grace did the research on Sheryl in Galaxy Fleet...

Read the thread before u post...

Edited August 10, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Shun]

Sheryl is a ticking timebomb. Pretty soon she's going to go berserker, deploy her AT field, and create a lot of hate when she starts flying around tearing apart Island 1 and its inhabitants.

Berserker Sheryl ooooh yeah... or maybe she's been berserk all her life?

would like to see Berserk Sheryl tearing and gnawing at Grace... eva style

good job how they made Grace soooo evil and hateable.

Oh another theory on the cocoon like things....possibly Leon/Grace's original plan is to grow their own Vajra brood with Ranka as queen to expand through the galaxy. Of course this is considered unethical blablabla and Kawamori will start spewing his green peace moral of story.

yeah perhaps they hope that mankind can inherit the rapid evolving attribute from the vajra?

Assuming that your triangle theory is true and there is a a remote possibility that Ozma and Ranka are indeed blood relatives, are we looking forward to one of these moments:

Ozma: "Ranka, you never knew the truth about your

father

, did you? Ranka, I am your

father

!"

Ranka: "That cannot be, that's impossible! NO!!!!!!!"

Goes on to punish those whom I find disturbing...

Classic

Yes, yes, I remember this clearly (which is why I decided the nest was probably in the same place). The problem I'm grappling with is that the only egg layer we've seen to date looks like the Vajra queen from episode 13/14. While I obviously have no basis for this, I assumed the red combat types are sterile. Maybe that one carried an egg layer in when it penetrated the Frontier.

Or maybe it was there all along... funny how Frontier doesn't even know it was there when it broke out.

Also, what was with that weird eye-thingy from episode 12, the one that seemed to emit the jamming wave? Still haven't figured out what that was supposed to be. Guess it could have been a close-up on some Vajra thing.

Probably carried by the reds/yellows to create more hives at multiple locations.

I have this crazy idea that Battle 7 will suddenly be taken over by Vajra and go rogue (a la that PS2 Macross game) and Macross Quarter will have to go against it. That would be awesome, esp if Ranka and Sheryl are on opposite sides for whatever reason....song attack versus song attack??

Its that red "visor" hence "evil robot" effect... PLUS the fact that Sheryl has the v-type illness and liable to go berzerk as well!

And just to support that theory here's a screencap from the OP scene showing Battle 7, Sheryl with evil red glow, and a strangely organic (hence Vajra) thingie all in the same frame....

Too much to hope for esp. with there being so many mysteries left in the overall plot...but it would be fun!

Red "visor" - you meant Battle Frontier? It looks really cool but i was surprised too, because it usually represents "evil robot" like you said. As for macross-class mecha action, i'd prefer a 1-on-1 fight between Battle Frontier and Battle Galaxy in the finale with perhaps Quarter & SMS being the one to assist and turn the tide.

I noticed the organic stuff on the right side of the OP too, and really have no idea what it is...

i hope the ending is not rushed... too many "unfinished business" unexplained plots/background stories and too few episodes left. maybe we can get some background story from OVAs or season 2

Edited August 10, 2008 by Shun

[Kronnang Dunn]

cant u guys see the 'face'? the hair is very obvious, and the one i outlined has some lines for where the eyes and nose are....

looks like 2 heads joined at the top to me.... and the whole body is wrapped up

i get the birdman vibe...

is it Ranshe?? Dr Mao?

Sorry... I'm very good at finding shapes/forms inside weird patterns (I use that resource when designing new mechas...), but I just can't see any faces there...

However...

The 2 spheres with the spike remind me of the red armored Vajras a lot... Maybe those are Ai-Kuns evolving into lethal types... inside several PUPAS perhaps?

Edited August 10, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[dreamweaver13]

In Episode 18, Alto's bro. told Alto that Sheryl called the Saotome family for help. I wondered if he "purposely" pulled that stunt on Alto or Sheryl really did ask them for help.

it's most likely a "stunt" to get alto to finally go back to the saotome mansion. he knows that alto and sheryl acted together in the promotional video, and i'm sure he's asked around and found out that they hang out a lot in school together. so he at least believes that she's important to him. and besides, the "alto" cry by Sheryl before she fainted was a dead giveaway.

and as it looks like from the preview, the "stunt" worked.

[Westlo]

and besides, the "alto" cry by Sheryl before she fainted was a dead giveaway.

and as it looks like from the preview, the "stunt" worked.

Yeah that was a dead giveaway lol...

[Shaka_Z]

Mao's too old. (although if you look at alto's father, he does look old too. maybe kabuki actors don't age well. hehe.)

Alto's flashbacks as a child was also in Frontier (see the white outlines in the sky).

Mao disappeared 11 years ago. and before that i presume she was on the 117th fleet the entire time several years prior. thus, she couldn't have been in that flashback.

Even as a remote possibility, i don't see it.

but nevertheless, you're right that it would be a biggest kick in the balls for speculators everywhere. "Ranka or Sheryl's grandma? hell no, she's alto's mother!!"

how old is alto's father anyway? mao was right about 50 when the 117th was lost in 2047. Alto would have been 5 or 6, whch puts her at 44-45 when alto was born. even today it is not all that rare for women that age to bear children with proper medical care - provided they have not gone through menopause already. It's even possible that she could have used in-vitro techniques using stored eggs from when she was much younger, and there are a number of examples of THAT happening in real life today - grandmothers acting as surrogates for example.

how long has frontier been in active service? it is possible that those flashbacks were from a different colony ship, or from frontier before it was launched.

Hmm.. actually, even if Alto is Mao's daughter, I don't see it being an issue with Sheryl, since Sheryl most likely isn't related to Mao at all. Hmm.. so, if Mao disappeared 11 years ago, alto would've been 6-7 years old, young enough for those flashbacks easily. Only problem is that I don't see Mao being even near Frontier around that time. Also, I watched the flashback in Ep11 again, and his mom really doesn't look like it could be Mao. The hairstyle is wrong, based on the computer photo, and she's wearing fancier clothing, more like Alto and his father.

do we even know from where the 117th was launched? as I see it, Mao's research would have been another major problem between her and Ranzo - she wold probably have left to pursue it against his wishes. and there wouldnt have been any need for her to have been on the 117th from the beginning. her relocation may have been deliberate to get away from ranzo, or just make it easier to collaborate with Grace and Ranshe. as for the hairstyle in the flashback - ranzo seems to be the controlling type... he may have frowned upon Mao's open display of her heritage by wearing her hair in her original style as well as her tribal jewelry, especially in public... yet another point of stress in the relationship (many people get into less than ideal relationships for the wrong reasons... Alto's birth itself may have been a result of a one-night stand between mao and ranzo - we just dont know)

[Heron]

Nothing to really add to this one other than I think the series as hit the next gear and I'm looking forward to the outcome and revelations.

[RedWolf]

how long has frontier been in active service? it is possible that those flashbacks were from a different colony ship, or from frontier before it was launched.

12 years if they did Miss Macross annually. Ozma and Ranka moved in 10 years ago, 2049.

So Frontier was launched in 2047. The same year Basara went to Zola for Space Whale singing. The same year in VFX that the Milky Dolls were rescued, Miho Miho was transfered to to the carrier Vahalla III. The same year the Cosmo Nature article on V-type was published.

2048 was the year 117th fleet was lost.

2051 UN Spacy officer William Garland's failed coup attempt of Earth. VFX-2

2053 Grace supoposedly found Sheryl in Galaxy's slum and infected with V-type.

[Wes]

What exactly is a V-type infection? I don't know if it's been said but I know it's bad. I still don't know if Grace did it even if it's her Cylon nature. Why she was on the streets is anyone's guess, though she said Galaxy wasn't kind to organics. Maybe she was infected and Grace could use it. Still don't see the purpose behind her infection. Is it benefitical to singers? Or was it just something that would make her easily disposable if she crossed Grace?

[Renato]

it's most likely a "stunt" to get alto to finally go back to the saotome mansion. he knows that alto and sheryl acted together in the promotional video, and i'm sure he's asked around and found out that they hang out a lot in school together. so he at least believes that she's important to him. and besides, the "alto" cry by Sheryl before she fainted was a dead giveaway.

and as it looks like from the preview, the "stunt" worked.

I agree that it's a stunt to get him to return, but Sheryl did not actually act in the movie, just Ranka and Alto. If anything, he should have kidnapped Ranka. I just don't see him asking around to see if Sheryl and Alto hung around or not, and then happened to be in the same place when she collapsed. Too much of a stretch.

It just looks like bad writing to me. (Like a lot of the stuff surrounding Sheryl since the beginning of the show -- so many of the plot points involving her are badly executed, e.g. all the coincidental bumping into Alto and Ranka in the first few episodes, the whole pointless "I'm gonna be a pilot now!" thing just so the characters can interact more with her in the show, it all just seems tacked on cos otherwise she would just lift right out of the show).

[DeeBot]

I agree that it's a stunt to get him to return, but Sheryl did not actually act in the movie, just Ranka and Alto.

dreamweaver13 was talking about the military propaganda videos Sheryl made with SMS back around, oh, episode 10 or so.

[Renato]

Oh, yeah, forgot about that, sorry.

[taksraven]

Nice detail: Brera doesn't have an ethereal body.

FV

Noticed that. Interesting.

[Master Dex]

Noticed that. Interesting.

I think this is because what we see on Brera in cockpit is VR. We've seen he is in a traditional looking cockpit briefly when he was hit in ep.13 and it quickly showed Brera was in a normal looking cockpit with a suit and all that for a split second. I think Brera is jacked in like the Matrix almost like the dock controllers in Zion during Matrix Reloaded, sitting in the chairs but controlling the functions in a VR control room. So I bet Brera in the actual cockpit has a 'fold shadow' as I am calling it but we don't see it in his digital cockpit.

[s-girl]

Regarding Alto's brother ... his being right where Sheryl was is a bit too coincidental for my tastes unless he has a> a homing beacon on his adoptive brother's general whereabouts or b> is also mysteriously tied to events related to Galaxy/117.

Bah.

[taksraven]

I'm thinking the Vajra will soon become immune to Ranka's song.

Sheryl will return to the stage and help her turn the tide.

I think that the series will end like this, with Ranka and Sheryl going off into the sunset as a double act. (stealing the same idea from the Velma and Roxie characters in the Chicago musical.)

Taksraven

[taksraven]

I was very happy to see Battle 25. I was really starting to think that it was NEVER going to be shown. Are they ever going to show the Monster in Battroid mode I wonder?

Taksraven