Macross Frontier Episode 18 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Kronnang Dunn]

According to whom?

Duh... Grace?

[MisaForever]

Would you guys like some cake..... I mean salad to go with that whine?

[HMP_Goose]

Sheryl is the force-growth clone of Ranshe Meis, built by Grace, whom's been working on this con since way-back-when. Ranshe is, in turn, the mother of Ranka and what's-his-face, the cyborg jet jockey (who also doesn't remember damn thing, now that I think on it).

Sheryl was planted on the streets of Galaxy by Grace or her accompliceses, while Sheryl still wasn't quite sapent, and left to form memories of suffering, as part of the conditioning to be Graces tool.

Grace when through 8 test tubes getting this project off the ground.

Sheryl's last name was chosen 'cause Grace, like all Brainy Villains, is big on Irony . . .

(Ozma could have been Ranshe's in-law. Or not . . . )

Isamu is gon'a show up with Myung in tow: He won't be able to do much past sound inspirational, as the good ol' YF-19 seems to be atmospheric-optimized, and it's guns are already on the Vajra's "Ignore" list; Myung, on the other hand, is

more then up to managing soon-to-be-homicidal idols . . .

And why doesn't anybody talk about Mikes' ears?

[magnuskn]

I´ll bow out of any further discussion with Mercurial Morpheus. It´d take far too long to dissect everything, and it only would provoke more of the walls of text. Maybe when I´m not working full-time anymore.

Talk about being hit with a brick of text...

[Gubaba]

Would you guys like some cake..... I mean salad to go with that whine?

"Oh kettle, thou art black!" sayeth the pot.

[brouken]

Good episode! (Took me long enough to get it, and quickly enough to go through it.)

Sheryl - How the mighty have fallen

Grace - My how you've grown since we first saw you!

Ranka - Still hasn't grown enough, even though she's being billeted as the new Lynn Minmei. (Looks at the Koenig noseart and screencap of Minmei's chest in DYRL) Yep. Long way to go.

Alto - Ore ga otoko nandayo! O-TO-KO!

Ozma - How come you're still in bed? Pineapple cake THAT bad? Or maybe too little Basara?

Bobby - In a catfight with the Quarter ladies over discounted linen = priceless

Overall, again, good episode despite some of the recycled mecha and battle scenes.

[Chronocidal]

(Ozma could have been Ranshe's in-law. Or not . . . )

Actually, I kinda had that thought myself. The guy in the picture looks like he could possibly be Ozma's brother. Although, that would probably lead him to having Ranka call him uncle, instead of brother... *shrugs*

[Shaka_Z]

I actually find it ironic that Sheryl's spotlight is being taken by Ranka - who Sheryl seemed intent on encouraging and molding early on to be her protege... until the two started openly competing for Alto that is.

[Final Vegeta]

Alto has had a problem in the past episodes of not knowing if Sheryl was serious about him.

This usually happens in the beginning, social approaches are as indirect as possible to allow both parties to retreat without harm.

Her whole strong and playful personality created the impression in him, that she considered him a plaything ( as best evidenced in her calling him her "slave" during episode eight ).

He was annoyed and tug around by her. Just because someone is interested into you it doesn't mean you can accept all of her crap.

Also I don't know what's with this idea that if one has feelings for another the feelings must be automatically returned

He also was incredibly oblivious that she *is* interested in him in any further way than someone to annoy and tug around, also quite obvious when Michael asked him about just that, also in episode eight.

Well, that's part of the game The anime is about the process of falling in love. If the two actually fell in love the next episode would be jumping the shark. Have you ever considered that?

Sheryl, on her side, has been interested in Alto first because he didn´t treat her as "Sheryl Nome, the Galactic Fairy", but as just another girl. Her personality doesn´t admit to any weakness ( as per her often-repeated "I am Sheryl! Sheryl Nome!" mantra ), so she didn´t want to admit to herself that she is falling in love with Alto, because being in love also means being somewhat dependent on the other person.

No. Sheryl is in touch with her emotions, she perfectly knows she wants Alto and she has a go-getter personality.

That is why she played her kiss with Alto off as just a joke, which in turn just solidified Altos opinion that she is just playing with him.

No, she played her kiss with Alto as a joke for the reason stated above, to allow both parties to retreat without harm. At the same time this was an act of commitment. It takes awhile to be physically comfortable to the touch of another person, and after having reached a certain level all previous levels are unlocked. Sheryl forced a liplock, and then retreat in the safe zone. She sent the message that she is interested and available. I think not even Alto failed to notice that. It was a master move.

Hence how he reacted with being stand-offish to her "summons" in episode 11, when she told him of her present for his birthday.

He is almost always stand-offish

I mean, he is tsundere. Don't you know how it works?

Sheryls downfall has opened new avenues in her characterization, but personally I would have liked her keeping more to her strong personality side, and the two of them working it out from there.

The problem I see with that situation is that Sheryl has too much energy, and thus it is clearly dominating simply by initiative. Alto instead is trying to gain control of his life by chosing to pilot a Valkyrie instead of acting, so he has qualms with a dominating personality. Ranka is meek, but that makes her easygoing.

As the writers teared her self-image of the self-made pop idol down, we will get another side of her.

I am troubled in describing psychology at this level. People's behaviour is a mixture of inter-related internal and external factors. Will we see another part (a side or a core) of Sheryl, that is a part of Sheryl that was always there, or another Sheryl, that is she can no longer be the person she was?

Regardless, it's still better than hear Sheryl's character being described as inconsistent. That's really comes out of nowhere

FV

[Final Vegeta]

Grace - My how you've grown since we first saw you!

She killed herself, and that made her more powerful than we could possibly imagine

Ozma - How come you're still in bed?

Good nurses

FV

[magnuskn]

Also I don't know what's with this idea that if one has feelings for another the feelings must be automatically returned

Well, that's part of the game The anime is about the process of falling in love. If the two actually fell in love the next episode would be jumping the shark. Have you ever considered that?

I mean, he is tsundere. Don't you know how it works?

Any conversation with you would work better if you would show any capacity of being respectful of your conversation partners opinion.

No. Sheryl is in touch with her emotions, she perfectly knows she wants Alto and she has a go-getter personality.

She has a go-getter personality. Still, being in love is as new a feeling for her as for any other teenager who never has been in love before. And, as I said, being in love makes you dependent on the other person, because s/he has to return your feelings to be a relationship instead of a one-sided longing. So I saw it as her shying back from committing to her own feelings and a certain fear of being rejected ( especially as Altos expression wasn´t really easy to read after his initial shock. ).

I am troubled in describing psychology at this level. People's behaviour is a mixture of inter-related internal and external factors. Will we see another part (a side or a core) of Sheryl, that is a part of Sheryl that was always there, or another Sheryl, that is she can no longer be the person she was?

Regardless, it's still better than hear Sheryl's character being described as inconsistent. That's really comes out of nowhere

Completely agreed. It wasn´t me who said that ( points at Morpheus ).

[Mercurial Morpheus]

"QUOTE (Final Vegeta @ Aug 13 2008, 02:15 AM) *

Regardless, it's still better than hear Sheryl's character being described as inconsistent. That's really comes out of nowhere rolleyes.gif

Completely agreed. It wasn´t me who said that ( points at Morpheus ). "

Really? I didn't know Mopheus had said that. Much less posted in this thread!

The funny thing is if anyone had actually read my posts instead of picked at them, you'd find I was actually in agreement with most of what had been just said. Not all of it, but quite a bit. She's an interesting character, even if not the best written. As for the "inconsistent" remarks, it came out of a five month break, cutting of some early scenes, and the obvious rewriting of the character in that timespan giving the impression the character had rather 180ed and hence felt rather erratic. So it hardly came out of nowhere. I never really fell for the cutesy Sheryl. It applied mostly to the early episodes only as I've already said it's mostly been reconciled by recent events. Let's not get into it, I guess.

Apologies for the "walls of text", but it's how I write when the conversation arises. Of course provocative statements are going to provoke. Tis natural.

[VF-25 Messiah]

I for one found these walls of text, and the responses to them, to be an interesting read.

[Morpheus]

Any conversation with you would work better if you would show any capacity of being respectful of your conversation partners opinion.

She has a go-getter personality. Still, being in love is as new a feeling for her as for any other teenager who never has been in love before. And, as I said, being in love makes you dependent on the other person, because s/he has to return your feelings to be a relationship instead of a one-sided longing. So I saw it as her shying back from committing to her own feelings and a certain fear of being rejected ( especially as Altos expression wasn´t really easy to read after his initial shock. ).

I am troubled in describing psychology at this level. People's behaviour is a mixture of inter-related internal and external factors. Will we see another part (a side or a core) of Sheryl, that is a part of Sheryl that was always there, or another Sheryl, that is she can no longer be the person she was?

Completely agreed. It wasn´t me who said that ( points at Morpheus ).

Me?

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Probably due to none of it being addressed to you.

Still, glad to know someone appreciates it. It's not the funnest thing out there. These things either help me, or distort my thoughts so much as to confuse even me as to what I'm trying to convey. The traces of Strawman don't help either.

Any thoughts to add, VF25? Though I'm still a bit too perplexed to to be of service.

Damn cursed fandom...

Score! Welcome to the party Morpheus (though backtracking reveals me wrong about you previously posting in this thread). Sorry for any infamy Big, Bad Mercurial has brought down on you.

This thread needs to lighten back up. I guess I'll try to exit it again... @_@;;

Edited August 13, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[VF-25 Messiah]

Any thoughts to add, VF25?

Well, not really, given that I felt you expressed my thoughts in text way better than I ever could. It was also one of the longer, more thought through opinions on her written here. Our views do differ slightly though, and I suppose you judge Sheryl harsher than I would (I found her interesting even before this episode, but now more so), but I can follow and largely agree with your line of thinking from start to end.

I did really sympathise with her this episode during her fall, but rather than seeing it as her suddenly having grown weak (I've nothing against strong women either) it felt more like she dropped her dishonest guise about herself and became... well more honest

Also, your idea that certain of her negative traits were born out of her desire to make the 'lie' called Sheryl Nome into truth ringed true to me, and it kind of endeared her to me further While I dislike these traits as well, the idea that they actually came out of a desire to 'better herself' and truly become a person who would've become Sheryl Nome on her own, is interesting.

Edited August 13, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[magnuskn]

I did really sympathise with her this episode during her fall, but rather than seeing it as her suddenly having grown weak (I've nothing against strong women either) it felt more like she dropped her dishonest guise about herself and became... well more honest

I didn´t see her having a "dishonest guise" at all. She was being herself all the time... it is only that she didn´t owe as much of her fame and status to herself as she thought.

But that still doesn´t make her own hard work worth any less. Prior to the relevations by Grace, she built up her persona on her own successes.

That they now have come under attack don´t make her prior behaviour less genuine.

[Final Vegeta]

Any conversation with you would work better if you would show any capacity of being respectful of your conversation partners opinion.

It's not a matter of respect at all, Magnus. Our different kinds of emotionality surely can cause some clash on their own (you are more involved while I am more detatched), but in this case it's a problem of different experience in anime culture.

Tsundere it's a term that means someone who is aggressive towards the people he loves before being actually nice. It's the Japanese version of Bipolar Disorder

Look for example at what Klan says to Michael in ep. 17:

"Who would wait for you?! Isn't it obvious that I just came?" "So, what do you want? I am busy, you know!"

I hope you will recognize the same attitude of Alto. This is what being tsundere is about. It doesn't mean you are not conscious of you feelings or you are being indecisive. In this regard, I suggest you to question whether you were seeing too much in Alto's reactions.

Still, being in love is as new a feeling for her as for any other teenager who never has been in love before. And, as I said, being in love makes you dependent on the other person, because s/he has to return your feelings to be a relationship instead of a one-sided longing. So I saw it as her shying back from committing to her own feelings and a certain fear of being rejected ( especially as Altos expression wasn´t really easy to read after his rinitial shock. ).

Technically we don't know whether or not Sheryl has been in love before. I must add that famous people like Sheryl are approached by many persons, so Sheryl has a superior social experience, and she show it.

The fear of being rejected can be real, and that's why you go slow. It's not shying away from commitment, it's simply good sense. It can be described as a truce, not as a peace treaty

I didn´t see her having a "dishonest guise" at all. She was being herself all the time...

I agree on this

Really? I didn't know Mopheus had said that. Much less posted in this thread!

I don't know, I am sure it was someone whose nick started with "M" and ended with "orpheus"

As for the "inconsistent" remarks, it came out of a five month break, cutting of some early scenes, and the obvious rewriting of the character in that timespan giving the impression the character had rather 180ed and hence felt rather erratic.

You are comparing the facade people use for the public and for the people they know. Differencies in the two are quite normal.

FV

[magnuskn]

It's not a matter of respect at all, Magnus. Our different kinds of emotionality surely can cause some clash on their own (you are more involved while I am more detatched), but in this case it's a problem of different experience in anime culture.

Tsundere it's a term that means someone who is aggressive towards the people he loves before being actually nice. It's the Japanese version of Bipolar Disorder

Look for example at what Klan says to Michael in ep. 17:

"Who would wait for you?! Isn't it obvious that I just came?" "So, what do you want? I am busy, you know!"

I hope you will recognize the same attitude of Alto. This is what being tsundere is about. It doesn't mean you are not conscious of you feelings or you are being indecisive. In this regard, I suggest you to question whether you were seeing too much in Alto's reactions.

I´ve participated for a few months in intense trench-warfare on Animesuki ( Sheryl ganbatte! ), so, yeah, I know what tsundere means.

And while I agree that both of them are exhibiting behaviours consistant with that archetype, it´s a bit too easy to just handwave their behaviour with a "tsundere" label. I like some deeper analysis on it, which I´ve tried to bring up. Actually, I´ve been mostly repeating stuff others already said on Suki, so it´s not as if I am very original on this.

And my comment on "disrespect" was because you used repeatedly that " " smiley about parts of my post, which is not exactly a sign of someone taking his conversation partners opinion seriously. At least not when the parts are trying to be serious ( as much as that gets to be so on the nets... ) analysis of the Sheryl X Alto relationship.

[MisaForever]

So, is this discussion about episode 18 or..... ???

[MFSxA]

I didn´t see her having a "dishonest guise" at all. She was being herself all the time... it is only that she didn´t owe as much of her fame and status to herself as she thought.

But that still doesn´t make her own hard work worth any less. Prior to the relevations by Grace, she built up her persona on her own successes.

That they now have come under attack don´t make her prior behaviour less genuine.

I think Sheryl was never really in a disguise. She didn't hide behind a mask. In order to hide behind the mask the one hiding needs to know the necessity to hide, that is, there is something to hide. If you were not aware of such a thing to hide, how can you hide something you were not aware of? To her mind she can do anything if she puts her will and effort to it, because according to her - she has reached her status due to her will and effort. If somehow that the information you relied upon was inaccurate or untrue, not of your fault, this does not change the fact that you have become based on what you believed you were. "I am Sheryl Nome" isn't a disguise, nor is it a mask. It is a battle cry and at the same time a characterization of her confidence and independence. It is, simply, who she is.

Her downfall is not that her rise to fame was false (originally I thought this was the case), rather she facing death. Her rise to fame was her doing with the help of Grace and Co. Assuming that the gg subs are good enough translation, it is worth to note:

1. The initial part of the conversation was Sheryl asking why Grace left her as her manager, and why Ranka's voice could be understood by the vajra. Why was it not her? These were the things she said. I'd interpret it as she either being jealous or insecure in the current spot that she is in. I find nothing distasteful of this, as long as she does not turn the thoughts into negative actions. It is natural for man to be jealous, the important thing is and the only thing that counts is how you act on it. This separates man from those lesser than him (assuming you subscribe to the teachings of the ancients - or more simply but inaccurately the morality of various religions).

2. Grace states that she is merely an idol. A fabricated idol. She counters that it was her own work that got her to the top. The interesting part is Grace's next statement which does not negate Sheryl's reply: If Grace hadn't taken Sheryl from the streets then she would not have been who she is now. This is actually true, it was the first gate to her fame - but she makes no mention if and how She (Grace) and Co. manipulated her rise. In other words there is no conclusive statement or scene to state that every part of her rise was completely manufactured and devoid of her own effort. Anything else is speculation. Besides what Grace gave was an opportunity, but do opportunities act by themselves or is it necessary for man to act upon the opportunity in order to reap the harvest? She is described as beautiful and she can sing. What could Grace and Co. have contributed? setting up her schedule I guess, this is pure speculation though, hehehehe.

3. The truth of the matter is, Sheryl remains undaunted: (a) by the rise of Ranka; (b) abandonment of Grace; © Ranka's voice as very useful and important part of the MF Fleet. Instead she breaks down knowing she will die. This occurs twice, the first in the hospital after Grace grabs her. In the scene where she walks at night while raining, she thinks to herself that something like this...she won't...and then she remembers Grace words that she is going to die. A fabricated idol. You are literally going to die, to provide emphasis, Grace's lips are shown. And then the announcement of the new Min May, eventually her kneeling by the street walk. Aside from God (I am a theist)I think, Death is next as the most interesting thing in life (feels paradoxical). The end of existence, shall I make the most of life? Try to fight this disease? Accept my fate? Shall I correct my family relations? Or drown myself in vain pleasures because life is only once? Or is it crap, I don't care even if i'm going to die? I cannot put into words the various thoughts that flare to my mind upon the thought of my own mortality, you would forgive me if i leave this paragraph as it is.

As the scenes play out, it is clear that it was not the death of her singing career, the rise of Ranka, or the importance of Ranka that primarily broke Sheryl down. After the trampling of her ego/pride/vanity/whatever you call it, she remains undaunted, referring to Grace's threat as lame and she would not chicken out of it. She remains willful and unfazed. One can argue that it was merely a retort out of anger, a protection of her ego. I say, pretty normal for a person to act. To finally twist matters and to have (perhaps a decent excuse) her breakdown, MF staff pulls the death card. Heh.

Her breaking down due to such an event does not necessarily mean she is weak. I prefer to use the word, shock. What follows next is thought and perhaps self-pity. I think and as per collective experience, if you are told that you are going to die - depression is inevitable. Others are very good at hiding it, but I am fairly sure, that their minds are full of thought due to the thought of mortality. If you would have been told you would die soon due to AIDS, what would you do? I think the author merely followed a logical line of thought and sequence but such an intervening event does not necessarily mean that such a character is weak. The next episodes will flesh out if Sheryl really is weak. I hope she is a phoenix, heh or is she the Northern Cross?

Sheryl shines even more, when she tells Michael and Klan that they need not tell Alto of her predicament. I would liken this to a person who does not wish his good friend or his lover to be bothered of his condition. I remember a person, he never told his wife or his children about his high blood - which was aggravated by his asthma. He did this because he didn't want others to worry about him too much and to pull their effort and resources for him too much. He didn't want the people he loved to be inconvenienced. He thought he could handle it, it was reckless, but the intent was good. This would seem to be the intent of Sheryl. Michael in the stair scene says to Klan, that there are things you can't say because you really care about someone. The better question is, why could you not say it? Shame? Embarrassment? Love? Worry? We shall see.

The strong Sheryl we knew in the previous episodes, still exists, albeit the ante was raised. How strong are you Sheryl, in the face of your mortality? When you consider your ailing career, your young age, your like/love for Alto - with your mortality? Where is your confidence now and independence Sheryl? It seems, at the face of death, even the willful Sheryl must pause her pace. Or will she surprise me in the episodes to come? I hope she doesn't succumb to insecurities and apathy. Keeping the faith.

This death card is really interesting. Aside from the various factors in defining and analyzing Sheryl's character, we add a new one, her impending death. Please nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

I perceive her as a vibrant yet sensitive and loving character. The author is actually doing good work in presenting and developing Sheryl's character, props to him.

[magnuskn]

The strong Sheryl we knew in the previous episodes, still exists, albeit the ante was raised. How strong are you Sheryl, in the face of your mortality? When you consider your ailing career, your young age, your like/love for Alto - with your mortality? Where is your confidence now and independence Sheryl? It seems, at the face of death, even the willful Sheryl must pause her pace. Or will she surprise me in the episodes to come? I hope she doesn't succumb to insecurities and apathy. Keeping the faith.

This death card is really interesting. Aside from the various factors in defining and analyzing Sheryl's character, we add a new one, her impending death. Please nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

I perceive her as a vibrant yet sensitive and loving character. The author is actually doing good work in presenting and developing Sheryl's character, props to him.

QFT on all of this. Sheryl ganbatte!

[RF-26AAC]

QFT on all of this. Sheryl ganbatte!

Sheryl's just having an Asuka breakdown, just watch, she'll get up and have an "I'LL KILL YOU ALL!!!" coup de gras moment... she won't die, but she will be significantly injured; moreso than she already is...

Anyone else think she will have a violent, "kill em all" rebirth from the ashes of her ruined fame?

I can't wait to see what happens next; Michael keeps hinting to Klan and Klan sure isn't shy about hinting to Michael; oh lord, it's ridiculous!

When does the next ep air?

Yay for no spoiler tags.

[aerocombatpilot]

Sheryl's just having an Asuka breakdown

That's probably the reason why I don't like Sheryl; she reminds me too much of Asuka!!!

[RF-26AAC]

That's probably the reason why I don't like Sheryl; she reminds me too much of Asuka!!!

I hated Sheryl until I made the Asuka connection, now I actually like her a lot.

It'd be too much of a parallel if she started piloting on her own and was better than Alto...

But seriously, amid all the flavors of Evagasm going on in this show, I don't really mind it.

At least Ranka isn't like, totally soulless.

[MisaForever]

I Sheryl now. I have accepted her as cute and sexy.

[RF-26AAC]

I Sheryl now. I have accepted her as cute and sexy.

but I Klan more!

[Swampstorm]

As MFSxA points out, Sheryl's confidence wasn't undermined by Grace's suggestion that she's somehow a "manufactured idol". In the scene with Grace after the OP, Sheryl counters by saying that she'll make it on her own, even if Grace isn't with her. That in turn provokes Grace into revealing that Sheryl will die from her infection. It's not that she lacks self-confidence, but even if she tries to rebuild, she doesn't even have a future to look forward to.

The initial part of the conversation struck me as more along the lines of "Et tu, Grace?" Sheryl wants to know the reason for Grace's betrayal, and whether it was due to some deficiency on her own part (ie. because of Ranka's ability to influence the Vajra). Before coming to Frontier, Grace was the only person who Sheryl really knew, and the only person who she felt close to. It's only natural that she'd feel extremely hurt by the defection.

Given the amount of control that Grace's faction seems to exert over promoting singers, it really seems that neither Sheryl nor Ranka have any control over their "fame". While Sheryl may have been helped by Grace's efforts, this is the same person who pulled all of her advertisments from the air. Even the girls at the discount bin note that she's disappeared completely from the music scene. She's been completely sabotaged.

One important point to note is that Sheryl's attempts to stay strong throughout this episode have little to do with pride. When she's alone in the limo or away from everyone else, she has no problems giving in to her grief. It's just that she doesn't want to worry the people around her.

In the scene with Michael and Klan, for example, Sheryl uses the line "I am Sheryl Nome" to comfort them(!), even though she should really needs comforting herself. When you look back through the earlier episodes, you'll see that she uses this phrase quite often to remind herself that she needs to be strong for the sake of others (the very first time it was used, for example, was after she arrived feeling tired on Frontier, but she had to remain tough - she had a job to do).

(By the way, I fell in love with Klan this episode, building off of my feelings from back in episode five. If she ever ends up becoming best friends with Sheryl, I'll be really happy.)

That's really one of the defining qualities of Sheryl's character. She always tries her hardest to remain strong for the sake of the people around her, and she's so good at doing it that they often don't realize the hardship that she goes through. I think this'll be a big problem with Alto, as well, because if he doesn't find out on his own, she'll never tell him her feelings on the matter.

I wouldn't worry too much about her from a character standpoint (from an impending death standpoint, I do worry, naturally). Regardless, Sheryl will definitely prove to be one of the strongest female leads of any anime series for a good many years to come.

[dreamweaver13]

She killed herself, and that made her more powerful than we could possibly imagine

Gasp! Grace is a saiyan?

[RF-26AAC]

Gasp! Grace is a saiyan?

no, Grace is ObiWan Kenobi.

[dreamweaver13]

I Sheryl now. I have accepted her as cute and sexy.

hmmm... "forever" lasted even shorter for Klan? hehe.

[VF-25 Messiah]

hmmm... "forever" lasted even shorter for Klan? hehe.

Perhaps his title should be "nothing lasts forever"?

[VF-18S Hornet]

I watched episode 18 yesterday and I was really peeved at Sheryl's ex-manager Grace on how she just used her and didn't even try to cure her infection. Grace is just plain evil and now she set her sights on Ranka, and what also get me is her connection to the SDF-04 Global of the 117 reseach fleet to Dr. Mao Nome (whom I was surprised survived the Zentreadi bombardment on Earth) but a possible link to the origin of the Vajra. She is like a parasite feeding off the suffering of others. ON another note during the battle with the Vajra I don't know if it was part of the original or a fansub flub but, while watching 18 a Robotech reference was to describe the Thermonuclear reaction missles as reflex warheads and the reaction enignes as reflex engines which I find rather weird I don't if anyone has picked up on that.

[VF-25 Messiah]

I watched episode 18 yesterday and I was really peeved at Sheryl's ex-manager Grace on how she just used her and didn't even try to cure her infection. Grace is just plain evil and now she set her sights on Ranka, and what also get me is her connection to the SDF-04 Global of the 117 reseach fleet to Dr. Mao Nome (whom I was surprised survived the Zentreadi bombardment on Earth) but a possible link to the origin of the Vajra. She is like a parasite feeding off the suffering of others. ON another note during the battle with the Vajra I don't know if it was part of the original or a fansub flub but, while watching 18 a Robotech reference was to describe the Thermonuclear reaction missles as reflex warheads and the reaction enignes as reflex engines which I find rather weird I don't if anyone has picked up on that.

She tried to murder her earlier. Given that, I don't see how 'not curing' her comes as any surprise.

And it's a fansub flub.

[RF-26AAC]

She tried to murder her earlier. Given that, I don't see how 'not curing' her comes as any surprise.

And it's a fansub flub.

I don't think curing her was ever a part of the plan.