Macross Frontier Episode 18 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Duke Togo]

The more convoluted Sheryl's origin becomes, the more I want to stick my head into the oven.

[VF-25 Messiah]

We better write Kawamori and warn him. I'm sure he wouldn't want Duke Togo's death on his conscience

[Kronnang Dunn]

- Sheryl is related to Mao Nome. Her last name...

...was given to her by Grace.

The more convoluted Sheryl's origin becomes, the more I want to stick my head into the oven.

Indeed... As far as the series go, Sheryl was just an anonymous and homeless orphan girl from Galaxy slums. No Mao Nome relation... yet.

Edited August 11, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[magnuskn]

We better write Kawamori and warn him. I'm sure he wouldn't want Duke Togo's death on his conscience

Wait, making Togo stick his head into an oven isn't what this thing is all about?

...was given to her by Grace.

According to whom?

Edited August 11, 2008 by magnuskn

[Radd]

- Sheryl looks very identical to Ranshe Mei. This could be simply be put down to inattention of the character design team, but so far they have given us very distinct characters and the show has made very few errors in its storytelling. So I count this as a probability that Ranshe Mei is somehow related to Mao Nome, but not Sheryls mother.

Er, has anyone else noticed the reused character designs popping up throughout the series? Most recently, the taxi driver who bears an uncanny resemblance to Howard Glass, and the street vendor who could be Leon's more congenial brother? I believe these little touches are intentional, a reminder that this story takes place not all that long after a period of large scale human cloning to beef up the population. Cloning didn't end until the very end of 2030, 29 years before Frontier begins.

I also agree with VF-25, that Sheryl and Ranshe do not look all that much alike. Most of their similarity seems to boil down to hair style, which as far as I know is not genetic.

As for where Sheryl got her last name, at this point I'd say that Kronnang Dunn's suggestion that she got it from Grace is likely. We do not know for certain, but given what we do know, it is currently the most likely scenario.

[yaiba]

This is my theory:

Ranshe Mei = Fairy 1. Secretly infected by Grace with the v-type virus as part of her [own?] private experiments.

Ranka was born with the v-type DNA inserted in her genome (transmitted from the virus in mom as opposed to being exogenously introduced from an outside source).

When Ranshe starts exhibiting the symptoms of the infection, Mao et al. start to trace the source of the infection.

Grace realizing that the jig is up, engineers the destruction of the 117th Research Fleet.

Grace escapes and goes on to produce Fairies 2-9.

In the end our heroes will foil the plans of Grace & Co. and being indestructable Grace will move on to pursue even more grand and evil schemes.

[sucker4meltrans]

You want to talk about reused character design President Glass's design and voice actor look and sound like the mayor from the city in SDF Macross that Kamjin attacked for the Miclonization device.

[Final Vegeta]

- Sheryl is related to Mao Nome. Her last name and her blood type ( Alpha Bombay ) make this a vague, yet not improbable connection.

According to the picture someone posted in another thread, Sheryl's bloodtype is Alpha, not Alpha Bombay

FV

[Chronocidal]

Hrmmm.. *gears grinding in brain*

Based on the article Klan and Michael found, we do have a set date for when Sheryl was picked up by Grace, right? I'm not sure what that date is, but there's plenty unknown about after the 117th's disappearance that she may yet be connected somehow, besides just through Grace.

Ok, so the flashback Sheryl has shows her standing around with a teddy, in a decent looking dress, while people walk by. This doesn't have to disagree with her street urchin days. We know she has the V-Type virus from somewhere, probably Grace. But lets say she's had it since her very early childhood, and she was in an orphanage. That type of fact would make it very hard for her to be adopted, probably leading to her running away at some point, where she ends up in the slums. Actually the virus isn't a requirement for this, she may have just been an extremely stubborn little girl, and no one wanted her, so she winds up on her own. Her resentment toward Galaxy may be that she was born and raised naturally, but that made her an unwanted child (think GATTACA).

The big question is how she became an orphan in the first place. I'm not ready to buy into the whole idea that she's related to Ranshe.. they look alike in the artwork, but things don't add up at all.. First off, if Ranshe is Sheryl's mother, what's the connection with Ranka? They all but confirmed Ranka's relationship to her in the "Mother's Lullabye" episode. Granted, they didn't specify whose mother she was, but given that Ranka and Brera both know the song, Ozma keeps having flashbacks of Brera as a kid, and the Vajra queen showed Ranka an image of Ranshe singing Aimo too, I think that's a bit obvious.

So lets just assume for a moment that it's a given that Ranshe is Ranka and Brera's mother, as well as Sheryl too (Sheryl/Brera= twins? ). But Sheryl isn't in any of the flashbacks to the 117th, wasn't in the picture Alto saw on the WTF-1, and you'd think with her love of singing she'd know Aimo too. Ok, so Ranshe's a scientist with two kids with her at her job with the research fleet. Yet Sheryl was left on Galaxy? I don't buy it. There'd be no reason for Sheryl to not be with them if they were actually related.

Now, this doesn't rule out some connection to the 117th entirely.. Sheryl may very well be the child of parents who were killed there. She may even have been another survivor, and not having an Ozma of her own to take her in, she wound up on Galaxy instead of Frontier, as someone who really didn't fit in. Actually, all of the "Fairies" may have been survivors of the 117th. I wouldn't put it past Grace to have kept tabs on all the survivors for possible exploitation. Since Sheryl was an orphan, she was probably the easiest one to manipulate.

Who knows.. Ranka and Sheryl may have been childhood friends. I doubt that though, since they would probably remember each other (I know it's a long time, but I do know that I remember quite a few of my friends from age 5-6). Either they never met on the 117th, or Sheryl was never there at all.

As fun as all these theories are, it's still very likely that Sheryl was just an orphan on Galaxy that Grace picked up and infected herself.

Edited August 11, 2008 by Chronocidal

[VF-25 Messiah]

This is my theory:

Ranshe Mei = Fairy 1. Secretly infected by Grace with the v-type virus as part of her [own?] private experiments.

Ranka was born with the v-type DNA inserted in her genome (transmitted from the virus in mom as opposed to being exogenously introduced from an outside source).

When Ranshe starts exhibiting the symptoms of the infection, Mao et al. start to trace the source of the infection.

Grace realizing that the jig is up, engineers the destruction of the 117th Research Fleet.

Grace escapes and goes on to produce Fairies 2-9.

In the end our heroes will foil the plans of Grace & Co. and being indestructable Grace will move on to pursue even more grand and evil schemes.

So Grace secretly infected her partner with the disease they're researching?

And a rather extreme way of sweeping things under the rug (though admittedly, she seems to like that sort of thing)

Seriously though, if Ranshe was ever infected it was more likely by her own doing.

[VF-25 Messiah]

Based on the article Klan and Michael found, we do have a set date for when Sheryl was picked up by Grace, right? I'm not sure what that date is, but there's plenty unknown about after the 117th's disappearance that she may yet be connected somehow, besides just through Grace.

It was *two* articles. One is the presentation of the thesis by Mao, Ranshe and Grace and it's from 2047, from the 117th. The second is a medical record of a treated patient, Sheryl, and its from 2053, from Galaxy. 117th is destroyed by the Vajra in 2048.

[Impreszive]

Look on www.tokyotosho.com for subs, there is the one from gg and now the one from Lunar.

Thanks!

[Chronocidal]

So Grace secretly infected her partner with the disease they're researching?

And a rather extreme way of sweeping things under the rug (though admittedly, she seems to like that sort of thing)

Seriously though, if Ranshe was ever infected it was more likely by her own doing.

Speaking of sweeping things under the rug... do we know if Gallia IV was some sort of a Vajra homeworld, or just a large nesting of them? One of the critters we saw walking around looked a bit like the thing in the tank in the internet photo if remember right. Given that's where the Global was, is it possible that the 117th discovered the Vajra on that planet to begin with?

It was *two* articles. One is the presentation of the thesis by Mao, Ranshe and Grace and it's from 2047, from the 117th. The second is a medical record of a treated patient, Sheryl, and its from 2053, from Galaxy. 117th is destroyed by the Vajra in 2048.

Hmm.. so if Sheryl is 17-18 in 2059, she may have been as old as 12 when Grace found her in 2053, which is still 5 years after the 117th went poof. Seems to me like there's plenty of time there for her to have been an orphaned survivor who fell in with folks from Galaxy, and was later put in an orphanage. Being un-implanted could have been a turn off to possible adoptive parents on Galaxy.

Edited August 11, 2008 by Chronocidal

[yaiba]

So Grace secretly infected her partner with the disease they're researching?

What better way to have the subject [of illegal human subject testing] available in the lab for study? Nobody would wonder why Ranshe was in the lab.

Grace: "Hey Ranshe, we need some more control blood samples today, do you think you could provide some?"

Ranshe: "What, again? Why don't you provide some yourself!"

Grace: "You know I don't have the right blood type..."

Ranshe: "Oh, fine!"

Grace [snapping latex glove in place]: "Kiri kiri kiri kiri kiri"

Seriously though, if Ranshe was ever infected it was more likely by her own doing.

This would be a possibility as well, but I like the first one better because it would explain Ranka better.

Edited August 11, 2008 by yaiba

[VF-25 Messiah]

What better way to have the subject [of illegal human subject testing] available in the lab for study? Nobody would wonder why Ranshe was in the lab.

Grace: "Hey Ranshe, we need some more control blood samples today, do you think you could provide some?"

Ranshe: "What, again? Why don't you provide some yourself!"

Grace: "You know I don't have the right blood type..."

Ranshe: "Oh, fine!"

If you had originally meant that Ranshe was in on it, why would Grace feel the need to blow up the 117th to cover it up? She would already know.

[yaiba]

If you had originally meant that Ranshe was in on it, why would Grace feel the need to blow up the 117th to cover it up? She would already know.

I meant that Grace was using Ranshe as a test subject without Ranshe's (or the other team members') knowledge.

Edited August 11, 2008 by yaiba

[Hiryu]

Grace [snapping latex glove in place]: "Kiri kiri kiri kiri kiri"

Lol @ Audition reference... *shudder*

[Garou Kuroryuu]

I have this crazy idea that Battle 7 will suddenly be taken over by Vajra and go rogue (a la that PS2 Macross game) and Macross Quarter will have to go against it. That would be awesome, esp if Ranka and Sheryl are on opposite sides for whatever reason....song attack versus song attack??

Its that red "visor" hence "evil robot" effect... PLUS the fact that Sheryl has the v-type illness and liable to go berzerk as well!

And just to support that theory here's a screencap from the OP scene showing Battle 7, Sheryl with evil red glow, and a strangely organic (hence Vajra) thingie all in the same frame....

The "organic" thing you mention is nothing more than Brera's damaged arm, as shown in episode... 7? The one when he fought the Hydra.

You guys need to cool off a little and stop seeing things in such a paranoid way.

[RF-26AAC]

The "organic" thing you mention is nothing more than Brera's damaged arm, as shown in episode... 7? The one when he fought the Hydra.

You guys need to cool off a little and stop seeing things in such a paranoid way.

This show is Macross meets X-files meets days of our lives..

Seriously.

Edited August 11, 2008 by RF-26AAC

[Radd]

The "organic" thing you mention is nothing more than Brera's damaged arm, as shown in episode... 7? The one when he fought the Hydra.

You guys need to cool off a little and stop seeing things in such a paranoid way.

Remember when the first episode of Frontier was proof positive that the Macross timeline had been retconned so that the Megaroad 01 and Macross 7 fleets, and dozens of others all left Earth at the same time, in 2012?

Or that Ranka had something growing out of her belly, when she was scrunching up the cloth there, in the concert from episode 7?

Really, the fan speculation on the forums here is just incredible.

Someone has already suggested that Alto is the real Nome relative, it won't be long before Sheryl is revealed to be Hikaru in drag, and Ranka gets her memories back only to realize that she's Basara and Roy Focker's lovechild from a secret mission involving time travel that went horribly wrong.

[DeeBot]

- Sheryl thinks her earrings are keepsakes from her mother. Now, how would a street urchin possess obviously valuable earrings such as those? In Sheryls flashback in episode 18 we see the earrings as they probably were given to her by Grace.

Oh. Em. Gee.

Grace

is Sheryl's

mother

!

Well... maybe figuratively, anyway.

Edited August 11, 2008 by DeeBot

[dreamweaver13]

Er, has anyone else noticed the reused character designs popping up throughout the series? Most recently, the taxi driver who bears an uncanny resemblance to Howard Glass, and the street vendor who could be Leon's more congenial brother? I believe these little touches are intentional, a reminder that this story takes place not all that long after a period of large scale human cloning to beef up the population. Cloning didn't end until the very end of 2030, 29 years before Frontier begins.

I also agree with VF-25, that Sheryl and Ranshe do not look all that much alike. Most of their similarity seems to boil down to hair style, which as far as I know is not genetic.

As for where Sheryl got her last name, at this point I'd say that Kronnang Dunn's suggestion that she got it from Grace is likely. We do not know for certain, but given what we do know, it is currently the most likely scenario.

was gonna point it out, but you beat me to it.

assuming sheryl and Ranshe does look a little alike, it might not be that much of a big deal. they could have been taken from the same cloning source a while back. after all, after SW1, the earth's gene pool was quite limited.

other examples, as you pointed out, would be the vendor and the taxi driver.

(now i wanna go through the entire series again, and play a game of "find the clone"!)

btw... some of the speculation connects Sheryl to the the Mao Nome name because of the way Ranshe looks (vis-a-vis Sheryl). has there been an established blood link between Mao Nome and Ranshe? (seriously asking. I might have missed it.)

[Sumdumgai]

Maybe we're looking at the wrong person to connect to Mao. Maybe Grace is Mao's daughter, who got married at some point and lost the Nome name. Her hair color isn't exact, but it's much closer to Mao's hair color than Ranshe. Grace could have given Sheryl the Nome name as maybe she at one point did feel a bit attached to her.

Not a serious theory, but an alternate one to throw out there.

[TehPW]

The more convoluted Sheryl's origin becomes, the more I want to stick my head into the oven.

:3 Oh Reilly? The Turkey Baster (and how it's used) should make for fascinating reading

[Morpheus]

Speaking of sweeping things under the rug... do we know if Gallia IV was some sort of a Vajra homeworld, or just a large nesting of them? One of the critters we saw walking around looked a bit like the thing in the tank in the internet photo if remember right. Given that's where the Global was, is it possible that the 117th discovered the Vajra on that planet to begin with?

I think the Vajra in Galia IV came from the Global. I bet that one of the Vajra test subject went berserk onboard, killing everyone and Global make an emergency fold and ended up in Galia IV. The Vajra then make a nest there and start breeding.

I do believe that Vajra is human creation since Zentraedi doesn't have any record of them. Maybe some people on NUNS tried to create a bio-weapon that is on par with the Protodevlin and they used APHOS remains (DNA or the Mao's blood) to recreate one, thus the birth of Vajra.

Also, I think we need to prepare a pineapple salad and steak party for Sheryl soon.

[RedWolf]

Also, I think we need to prepare a pineapple salad and steak party for Sheryl soon.

We still don't know the effects of Strawberry Pie though.

[Morpheus]

We still don't know the effects of Strawberry Pie though.

Strawberry pie -> Top falls off on front of a guy?

[Gubaba]

Strawberry pie -> Top falls off on front of a guy?

I think that only happens when there are nearby tuna buns...

[dreamweaver13]

I think that only happens when there are nearby tuna buns...

Now we're into the effects of food combos?? Man, this science is getting more complicated every day.

[dreamweaver13]

I think the Vajra in Galia IV came from the Global. I bet that one of the Vajra test subject went berserk onboard, killing everyone and Global make an emergency fold and ended up in Galia IV. The Vajra then make a nest there and start breeding.

I do believe that Vajra is human creation since Zentraedi doesn't have any record of them. Maybe some people on NUNS tried to create a bio-weapon that is on par with the Protodevlin and they used APHOS remains (DNA or the Mao's blood) to recreate one, thus the birth of Vajra.

Also, I think we need to prepare a pineapple salad and steak party for Sheryl soon.

I agree. i doubt that Galia IV is the home planet of all vajra. most likely it's just the adapted planet of the vajra that attacked the Global. Given the sheer volume of vajra in the area of space near frontier, i'd expect their actual home planet (if any) to be literally SWARMING with vajra.

But as for your last statement, damn you NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[mike_s_6]

Did you guys notice, this episode didn't have that much Negative votes as the previous ones?

I have a whack theory on why, but I suppose I'll keep it to myself

[Gubaba]

Did you guys notice, this episode didn't have that much Negative votes as the previous ones?

I have a whack theory on why, but I suppose I'll keep it to myself

My theory is that most of the people who watch the raws already love the show to pieces...the nattering nabobs of negativity don't show up until the subs start coming out, and this one's been later than most in that regard.

[Chronocidal]

Someone has already suggested that Alto is the real Nome relative, it won't be long before Sheryl is revealed to be Hikaru in drag, and Ranka gets her memories back only to realize that she's Basara and Roy Focker's lovechild from a secret mission involving time travel that went horribly wrong.

Don't forget, Ai-kun is actually the illegitimate child of Gubaba and Gamlin.

[Gubaba]

Don't forget, Ai-kun is actually the illegitimate child of Gubaba and Gamlin.

Dude. I am so suing you for libel.

[dreamweaver13]

Did you guys notice, this episode didn't have that much Negative votes as the previous ones?

I have a whack theory on why, but I suppose I'll keep it to myself

what? the haters are still watching the olympics? too busy in another thread to vote? what?