Macross Frontier Episode 17 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Morpheus]

He still has his baby fur

Not to mention Ai need to evolve first into a mini Big Zam before it can evolve into a red lobster

Can I request an animated GIF of Ranka dancing in her concert in this episode?

[Lakan]

Not really. The reason I guessed that Michael is going to use that method is because it's actually a somewhat common method of getting someone to do something for you. It allows you to make the individual more favorably disposed toward you, particularly if you went somewhere nice to eat and if you're a good people person like Michael can be when he wants to. The request that he's probably about to make isn't a normal one. And it'll probably need to take place "off the official record", so to speak, so the woman he's enlisting will need to do it in her spare time (both because he wants to keep it quiet, and because he's not paying her employer to have it done). So he'll need a small favor to get it done. And a dinner date at a nice restaurant (and ONLY a dinner date - there's a good chance that nothing further will happen that night) is an acceptable way to "pay" for that favor pre-emptively. Late in the meal, he'll swing the conversation toward his request and hope that she'll agree to help him.

Yeah it make sense, but even so I think he would be enjoying that ordeal nevertheless. He is the original playboy in this series right?

He still has his baby fur

But those tentacles are damn creepy.

[grss1982]

Sure looks like a Sig P228 in this episode. The serrations for the slide are a bit fat, but it looks like a P-228 to me.

And what a turnaround after so many people were complaining that the vajra were no longer scary because they were being owned.

What a turn around indeed.

It looks like in this episode its the VF-171s that get pwned.

[broody]

Actually, now that I think about it - other than gg, are all the subbers on vacation? I appreciate what gg does for us, but my current system doesn't play well with the big mkvs. Though the quality's not as good, I prefer divx or xvid (whatever) because it runs smoothly. Hopefully I'll be upgrading soon b/c my mobo's on the fritz and I'll get around that... Until then, what happened to Kei and Lunar?

* patiently waits for a sub file...

[VF-25 Messiah]

And what a turnaround after so many people were complaining that the vajra were no longer scary because they were being owned.

Except they ruined any sense of them being scary again, when they had them get owned by knives

[brouken]

Finished watching 17 today! (I REALLY need to get a faster ISP!)

Man, this episode absolutely REEKS of fanservice!

I spoiled it for myself though. I've been browsing this thread way before the torrent was finished. So I already knew how the episode would end.

But then, killing off Ozma at this stage wouldn't have made too much sense storywise in my opinion. He's still too underdeveloped as a character, so there isn't really enough of an emotional investment in him to have made proper Pineapple salad. But this was a good episode to show us more of where he's coming from (and where he is possibly headed).

I haven't seen all of Macross 7 yet. I've gone through Dynamite, but was completely lost. Good thing I've played the original VFX to appreciate "Try Again"!

I'm DEFINITELY collecting Skull-1's from now on!

[Sergorn]

Well I have been away for over a weak so I only just caught up with episode 17.

First : much Fire Bomber Goodness in this one : me like

Second : Ok now what the fart was that opening ? I kinda like the song but the visuals... ? Please tell me it's only a one episode thing, and Triangular will me back next week

I really thought Ozma was gonna bit the dust, especially with the whole pineapple parralal with Roy... though on the other han it did feel a tad too obvious.

The Vajra really are a nasty piece of work... so they adapt to the weapons used on them ? "We are the Vajra ! Resistance is FUTILE !" D'oh !

I wonder how Luca will turn out in all this ? Will he work with Leon or such ? I really want to know what they are doing with the Vajra...

And I hope Sheryl will be coming back and kicking ass, with mucho Singing. While I enjoy Ranka's music, I do think her songs (except for Aimo) are nowhere as compelling as May'n songs.

Aww well... bring on the next please...

-Sergorn

[Gubaba]

Ok now what the fart was that opening ? I kinda like the song but the visuals... ? Please tell me it's only a one episode thing, and Triangular will me back next week

Yes, it is a one-episode thing (most likely), but no, "Triangler" won't be back...

[Lakan]

The Vajra really are a nasty piece of work... so they adapt to the weapons used on them ? "We are the Vajra ! Resistance is FUTILE !" D'oh !

Evolution at it's fastest..

[Sergorn]

Yes, it is a one-episode thing (most likely), but no, "Triangler" won't be back...

Well as long as it's a Macross-ish opening...

Oh yeah... also I really loved this Ozma moment when he gives his speech about his will to fight along with Try Again in the background... I really remininded me of Macross 7's ending in a way. It feels like Ozma juste have the same determination than Basara had.

-Sergorn

Edited August 6, 2008 by Sergorn

[Ork_dreadnought]

Well, that was the first episode of frontier I disliked. Little actual entertainment, continued plot build up, but no pay off, all for a prank on long term fans. A good prank though, but I think a lot of this episode was padding.

[TehPW]

... Better than last episode. I spent a week at sea with a bunch of nujbs. It was a much better episode. It's still unclear what ultimate goal grace has but i predicted lots more death of Frontier citizens... they lost 1 out of how many cyclinders so far?

[azrael]

* patiently waits for a sub file...

Ummm...[gg] host their scripts on their site *points at first post for links*. And yeh, their ep. 17 script is up and about.

[Radd]

Well, that was the first episode of frontier I disliked. Little actual entertainment, continued plot build up, but no pay off, all for a prank on long term fans. A good prank though, but I think a lot of this episode was padding.

I can't disagree more. I was entertained all the way through, and there was quite a bit that added to the story, here, and will likely come up again in future episodes.

Ranka, with Alto's support, is now more wholeheartedly behind helping them fight the Vajra. Alto's sentiment that there's not enough room for humanoid life and the Vajra in the galaxy continues to be reinforced. We see now that Leon and company are attempting to position Brera's forces from Galaxy as the go-to people to protect the fleet. The relationship between all the major players has become yet murkier. We know some important new details about the Vajra, and the whole issue with the purple crystals has finally been laid out in plain terms.

I really don't see all that as being simply for the sake of the pineapple prank.

[Ivan]

Man, hearing Basara's songs made me wish that he would just show up in Frontier, start singing and piss everyone off. I miss Macross 7

[Ork_dreadnought]

I can't disagree more. I was entertained all the way through, and there was quite a bit that added to the story, here, and will likely come up again in future episodes.

Ranka, with Alto's support, is now more wholeheartedly behind helping them fight the Vajra. Alto's sentiment that there's not enough room for humanoid life and the Vajra in the galaxy continues to be reinforced. We see now that Leon and company are attempting to position Brera's forces from Galaxy as the go-to people to protect the fleet. The relationship between all the major players has become yet murkier. We know some important new details about the Vajra, and the whole issue with the purple crystals has finally been laid out in plain terms.

I really don't see all that as being simply for the sake of the pineapple prank.

Well I would argee that the series continues to be solid with its characterisation, plot is less so. It doesn't help that the series seems to have reverted to old status quo. The Vajra are indestructable again, Grace is still mysterious, Leon is still mysterious, Galaxy is still missing and we still get these little hints of something deeper, but no actual movement forward. After the Ranka attack this feels like a cop out.

Consider this, Sheryl's world has come apart, Ranka has replaced her in all things. Why is it it taken this long for her to confront Grace? Why wasnt this the focus of the episode?

Edited August 6, 2008 by Ork_dreadnought

[VF-25 Messiah]

Consider this, Sheryl's world has come apart, Ranka has replaced her in all things. Why is it it taken this long for her to confront Grace? Why wasnt this the focus of the episode?

Cuz it'll be the focus of the next?

[jenius]

I was shocked as the episode was coming to an end and I realized we hadn't seen Sheryl once, just one mention of her when Alto and Michael were being disciplined. Next episode they'll probably explain that Sheryl was off learning more about her condition and that's why she's about to confront Grace. Not sure if I like it yet, we'll see next episode.

[Master Dex]

The focus of this episode is Ozma coming to terms of Ranka growing up and becoming independant and how he is learning to let go and not be so protective, even though he will always be there for her. The whole point is he would go to death's door and back to make sure Ranka is safe. Also he didn't want her in harms way be having Frontier use her singing to fight the Vajra which is why he makes a big display of fighting them off without music (not including 'Try Again' in the background).

[Ork_dreadnought]

Cuz it'll be the focus of the next?

I really hope it will be. Episode 17 broke a plot thread for some more conspiracy bits, some overdue characterisation for Ozma, and a prank on those who watched the original series. That's why I consider it filler. If Sheryl doesn't have a row with Grace next episode it would be both a cop out and totally out of character. I'd also be a bit shocked if Alto and Ozma dont have serious things to say about Braea, considering he's nearly killed and/or attacked both of them now.

Edited August 6, 2008 by Ork_dreadnought

[sithlordbush]

* patiently waits for a sub file...

waiting patiently also...

[Kronnang Dunn]

The focus of this episode is Ozma coming to terms of Ranka growing up and becoming independant and how he is learning to let go and not be so protective, even though he will always be there for her. The whole point is he would go to death's door and back to make sure Ranka is safe. Also he didn't want her in harms way be having Frontier use her singing to fight the Vajra which is why he makes a big display of fighting them off without music (not including 'Try Again' in the background).

The Try Again thing may have very well been also a reference to the fact that, despite how resilient the Vajra are (and become each time), if u try and try again and again u can eventually defeat them... They are not undestructible, just resistant...

[azrael]

waiting patiently also...

Boy you people can't read.

Ummm...[gg] host their scripts on their site *points at first post for links*. And yeh, their ep. 17 script is up and about.

[VF-25 Messiah]

I really hope it will be. Episode 17 broke a plot thread for some more conspiracy bits, some overdue characterisation for Ozma, and a prank on those who watched the original series. That's why I consider it filler. If Sheryl doesn't have a row with Grace next episode it would be both a cop out and totally out of character. I'd also be a bit shocked if Alto and Ozma dont have serious things to say about Braea, considering he's nearly killed and/or attacked both of them now.

Alto already did that between eps 14 and 15. Sheryl learned of Grace's move over to Ranka in episode 16, and moved in to confront her the very next ep, just as it ended. I don't find that a "cop out". Nor did I think it broke plot thread either. On the conrary, the conspiracy is central to it.

But that's just me I guess.

[Ork_dreadnought]

Alto already did that between eps 14 and 15. Sheryl learned of Grace's move over to Ranka in episode 16, and moved in to confront her the very next ep, just as it ended. I don't find that a "cop out". Nor did I think it broke plot thread either. On the conrary, the conspiracy is central to it.

But that's just me I guess.

I have to disagree. An episode featuring Ozma has long overdue, but doing it at just moment has the effect of delaying what was the consequence of the previous episode. Sheryl has been pushed to background for too long in favour of Ranka, and the time when she should making her presense felt again, they instead focus on Ozma and give us some more vauge plot hints only worth 3 sentances of exposition. In short this felt exactly an episode prior to Galia 4. Conspiracies only entertain me if they move forward.

With respects to Braea, Alto's reaction came accross as both petulent and breif. Perhaps my brain cut out during the scene in question he pointed out to his superiors that the cyborg had attacked him on Galia, and had a tendancy to get in way during missions. What I do remeber is him trying to evict Braea from the class room and failing.

Edited August 7, 2008 by Ork_dreadnought

[dreamweaver13]

Well, that was the first episode of frontier I disliked. Little actual entertainment, continued plot build up, but no pay off, all for a prank on long term fans. A good prank though, but I think a lot of this episode was padding.

at some point we do have to realize that, maybe, just maybe, this series was written up with not just old-time macross fans in mind. I mean, if you never saw SDFM and the pineapple salad episode, i'm pretty sure the episode itself is quite a riveting story on its own.

I have to disagree. An episode featuring Ozma has long overdue, but doing it at just moment has the effect of delaying what was the consequence of the previous episode. Sheryl has been pushed to background for too long in favour of Ranka, and the time when she should making her presense felt again, they instead focus on Ozma and give us some more vauge plot hints only worth 3 sentances of exposition. In short this felt exactly an episode prior to Galia 4. Conspiracies only entertain me if they move forward.

And me, i'd just call it "pacing".

Edited August 7, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Ork_dreadnought]

at some point we do have to realize that, maybe, just maybe, this series was written up with not just old-time macross fans in mind. I mean, if you never saw SDFM and the pineapple salad episode, i'm pretty sure the episode itself is quite a riveting story on its own.

Yes, I am aware, and I'm sure it would be. However, as I have seen Pineapple Salad, my enjoyment has hampered somewhat. As for new fans, I'm sure all of them would rather had the Grace versus Sheryl fight, rather then suddenly changing focus to a supporting character. It makes the plot seem messy and dragged out.

And me, i'd just call it "pacing".

Bad pacing perhaps. They've broken the flow of the story for a sidestory, which ultimately has no lasting consequences. The conspiracy bits were arguably far more important than the main plot, but these don't entertain on their own.

Edited August 7, 2008 by Ork_dreadnought

[VF-25 Messiah]

With respects to Braea, Alto's reaction came accross as both petulent and breif. Perhaps my brain cut out during the scene in question he pointed out to his superiors that the cyborg had attacked him on Galia, and had a tendancy to get in way during missions. What I do remeber is him trying to evict Braea from the class room and failing.

You can't remember the scene, because there isn't one. Like I said, it had to have happened in between episodes 14 and 15. Cathy is speaking with Ozma and begins with "It's like Alto has been saying...". That's good enough for me.

As for why there isn't being a huge ruckus being raised over it, I can only assume Leon's actually doing something as part of the whole conspiracy. And Ozma and Cathy have been suspicious for a while now, so I can see them not taking it any further up, yet. Heck, Ozma even warns Alto from saying anything unneccessary in front of Bilra, in ep 15.

Edited August 7, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[Ork_dreadnought]

You can't remember the scene, because there isn't one. Like I said, it had to have happened in between episodes 14 and 15. Cathy is speaking with Ozma and begins with "It's like Alto has been saying...". That's good enough for me.

Not for me, sadly. What's the point of setting up a rivalry between characters if it just gets brushed under the carpet the moment the enemy ace supposidly (and we all know there's more to it than his story) joins the Frontier fleet.

[VF-25 Messiah]

Not for me, sadly. What's the point of setting up a rivalry between characters if it just gets brushed under the carpet the moment the enemy ace supposidly (and we all know there's more to it than his story) joins the Frontier fleet.

Because they don't want it to explode quite yet? The rivalry is still there. They're just not blowing each other up for the moment. And we've gotten quite a clear picture of what Alto feels about having to 'buddy up' with Brera.

Alto already complained about him, Ozma and Cathy share his concerns, heck maybe even the whole SMS does. But a certain someone is probably making sure those complaints aren't going any further. This someone is also the reason the government is accepting Brera and co with open arms. In fact he's probably not even alone, they seem to have the goverment wrapped prettily around their finger. Makes me wonder if SMS is going to break off at some point and act on their own in defiance of the goverment (a rather bold course of action, so it would not happen unless the situation gets much worse).

Oh well, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

[Final Vegeta]

What's the point of setting up a rivalry between characters if it just gets brushed under the carpet the moment the enemy ace supposidly (and we all know there's more to it than his story) joins the Frontier fleet.

This rivalry is not brushed, it's still there. Things are getting tougher for Alto exactly because he can't brush it off: now that they are on the same side he can't just kill Brera on a whim (despite it seems unlikely he would be able to).

Also, I have to say that all episodes dedicated to side characters are essentially some kind of fillers, but this one was kinda an exception. If the plot moved forward in the way someone here is asking for, the series would have ended with episode 6

There are several levels at which things in Macross Frontier are moving forward.

-Battles: we learned the Vajra are able to adapt to the enemy, now they can't be killed with nukes.

-Characters' interactions: Ozma now suspects Brera to be Ranka's brother. Also he suspects someone with implants to have hacked Frontier. Michael still wants to know more about Grace's pill. This is setting up an anti-Grace front, but before that Sheryl surprises us making her move against Grace. On the other hand, Luca seems to have allied with Leon and Grace, while Nanase is now working under Grace (this could help Grace giving a leverage on Ranka).

-Conspiracy explanations: we now know Bilra wants to monopolize galaxy's transports and comunications using Vajra's Fold Quartz. Obviously, there is something more to the story.

-New details: Confirmed that Grace can change the sex of her body. Ai-kun is short for Aimo. VF-25's PPB is confirmed. VF-27's weapon is a heavy quantum beam.

Most series lack this quantity of new informations per episode Macross Frontier has.

FV

[broody]

Boy you people can't read.

Got lost initially while browsing that page, but finally i found the script page.. didn't know the subs are called 'scripts'...

Edited August 7, 2008 by broody

[Ork_dreadnought]

This rivalry is not brushed, it's still there. Things are getting tougher for Alto exactly because he can't brush it off: now that they are on the same side he can't just kill Brera on a whim (despite it seems unlikely he would be able to).

FV, I agree completely with your points, I just feel Alto should be complaining about things a bit more than he is on screen. He is a princess you know Same for Sheyl in fact.

Edited August 7, 2008 by Ork_dreadnought

[sithlordbush]

Boy you people can't read.

Wow, I knew where to find them. I had downloaded the script and read through it and watched the Shinsen raw. Backwards I know, but I just really dont like the GG subs. I like the Lunar subs and I am cool with the Kei subs. Just my quirk.

[Gubaba]

Lunar's out.