DHX Posted October 4, 2008 Posted October 4, 2008 (edited) okay i was looking at the macross class ships on M3 and something struck me as odd. the global is the same class as the SDF-1 yet it's based of the DYRL version of SDF-1. i could see it being based off the designs for the SDF-2 before it got refitted into the megaroad as they are similar and the SDF-2 design was the first completely human designed version, but still is their a reason for the DYRL version to be used for the global? Edited October 4, 2008 by DHX
RedWolf Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 (edited) okay i was looking at the macross class ships on M3 and something struck me as odd. the global is the same class as the SDF-1 yet it's based of the DYRL version of SDF-1. i could see it being based off the designs for the SDF-2 before it got refitted into the megaroad as they are similar and the SDF-2 design was the first completely human designed version, but still is their a reason for the DYRL version to be used for the global? The SDF-2 Megaroad or Megalord however you want to call it did not go into final production design as far as we know. I think the design was scrapped for the refit version. Which is smaller and battle tested. Ever watched Macross Plus? The Macross was refitted into the DYRL version. In wasn't until Frontier that we found out the DYRL version came into mass production or at very least limited production. This has been bothering me for a while... Should we consider the gunship was refitted along the way? Now that I look at it more closely the deck is wider for the final render. Not to mention the shoulder sections are different from the earlier one. Edited October 5, 2008 by RedWolf
Beltane70 Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 The SDF-2 Megaroad or Megalord however you want to call it did not go into final production design as far as we know. I think the design was scrapped for the refit version. Which is smaller and battle tested. The SDF-2 design wasn't scrapped for the refit version. It wound up being redesigned and reclassified as the colonization ship that we now know as the Megaroad-01.
RedWolf Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 The SDF-2 design wasn't scrapped for the refit version. It wound up being redesigned and reclassified as the colonization ship that we now know as the Megaroad-01. I know that! I said that the design wasn't finished and weren't put into mass production as a carrier. Read more carefully before acting like a smart aleck.
azrael Posted October 5, 2008 Author Posted October 5, 2008 This has been bothering me for a while... Should we consider the gunship was refitted along the way? No. Why? Now that I look at it more closely the deck is wider for the final render. Not to mention the shoulder sections are different from the earlier one. Early render vs. Final render. I don't think it's really that important to have paid attention to it at the beginning of the series.
Morpheus Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 The SDF-2 Megaroad or Megalord however you want to call it did not go into final production design as far as we know. I think the design was scrapped for the refit version. Which is smaller and battle tested. Damn, that's one sexy NMC there.
DHX Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Does ECM stands for Electronic-Counter-Measures? if so what sort of ECM would effect a Ghost functionality?
anime52k8 Posted October 5, 2008 Posted October 5, 2008 Does ECM stands for Electronic-Counter-Measures? if so what sort of ECM would effect a Ghost functionality? jamming/disrupting their radar and/or IR sensors; disrupting the signal between the ghost and whatever's commanding them (i.e. Luca's valk); etc. etc.
wolfx Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 The EX-Gear follows the pilots movements and a VF-25 control system can be slaved to it. Like you said, we saw that in both episode 7 when Alto took over Luca's RVF-25 and in episode 25 when Alto got remote controlled his VF-25F. That's been clear for a while. What I was talking about was when the pilot isn't wearing his EX-Gear inside the cockpit. In episode 25 Alto reaches out his arm and grabs the air inside his cockpit; outside, the VF-25F follows his movements and the right arm unit grabs the sniper gun pod thrown from Kuran's VF-25G. There had to be some way the Alto's VF-25F was monitoring Alto's movements and mimicked his motion to grab the sniper gun pod. I was thinking some kind of motion capture system. But that leads me into another thought; is the flight suit portion of the EX-Gear the part of the outfit that monitors the wearer's movements? If that was the case, then Alto grabbing the gun pod wasn't a motion capture system but just the EX-Gear flight suit monitoring his movements and responding accordingly. I'd like to think that the motion of Alto grabbing the sniper pod was more of him being emo (finally) of Michel's death and has nothing to do with motion capture or whatever. He grabbed the air and held it close to it his heart, i doubt the valk was doing the same thing. If anything the valk probably has an autopilot function that makes it grab the gunpod which has a transponder that guides the valk's hands to it. Its these little things that make human interfaces easy, just like a first person shooter game. You walk over a piece of ammo/weapon, you automatically pick it up. You see an enemy, the targetting computer automatically points the gunpod in that direction. For me i feel the valkyrie controls are mostly automated. Everything from firing the gunpod, stabbing with knife etc. The pilot can choose to have manual control during other more "sensitive" situations though like when Alto is grabbing Ranka with in ep 2, his joystick has triggers for each of the valk's fingers so he can grab Ranka off the ground with care.
azrael Posted October 6, 2008 Author Posted October 6, 2008 I'd like to think that the motion of Alto grabbing the sniper pod was more of him being emo (finally) of Michel's death and has nothing to do with motion capture or whatever. He grabbed the air and held it close to it his heart, i doubt the valk was doing the same thing. If anything the valk probably has an autopilot function that makes it grab the gunpod which has a transponder that guides the valk's hands to it. Its these little things that make human interfaces easy, just like a first person shooter game. You walk over a piece of ammo/weapon, you automatically pick it up. You see an enemy, the targetting computer automatically points the gunpod in that direction. ... Yeh, I'm leaning that way too. If it did have a motion capture system, I feel sorry for the people looking at me when I have to scratch my ass.
Morpheus Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Do we have any lineart showing the cockpit hatch for VF-25 in batroid mode?
hobbes221 Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Do we have any lineart showing the cockpit hatch for VF-25 in batroid mode? You know I was wondering about that myself. Also do we know if the seat moves in battroid mode as well?
Kurisama Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 I've assumed it similar to YF-19. The seat swivels 90 degrees forward, the line art for the cockpit area (in fighter mode) shows the 'monitors' that appear behind and to the sides of the pilot in battroid mode - U can use that to imagine the seat swiveling forward 90 degrees. Not sure about the hatch tho - must be similar to the YF-19 too, that or the hatch is located in a rather suspect area...
VF-25 Messiah Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 You know I was wondering about that myself. Also do we know if the seat moves in battroid mode as well? The booklet that comes with DVD/Blu-ray volume 2 has pictures that shows how the cockpit readjusts it's position inside the VF as it transofrms... unfortunately I don't have a scanner... maybe someone else does
RedWolf Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Just humor me okay. Do you guys think a Macross class can dock with a NMC port?
macrossvf-1msx Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Just humor me okay. Do you guys think a Macross class can dock with a NMC port? no it cant the way I see it
Mark Nguyen Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Agreed. However, who says that someone can't build an adapter such that it can? Mark
hobbes221 Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 As it looks I would have to say no. But like Mark Nguyen said they could make an adapter, or as is looks as the mount is smaller then what would be needed by a Macross class the panels could be on 'soft' mounts and move to conform to the shape of the ship. I took your pic and marked the areas that I'm talking about. The larger box would be the movable panels and the smaller one could be where the actuators are. (is this for your fic or just wondering about it) And I know that nothing like what I'm talking about has ever been shown, this is just an idea that it could be done
Mr March Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 I'd like to think that the motion of Alto grabbing the sniper pod was more of him being emo (finally) of Michel's death and has nothing to do with motion capture or whatever. He grabbed the air and held it close to it his heart, i doubt the valk was doing the same thing. If anything the valk probably has an autopilot function that makes it grab the gunpod which has a transponder that guides the valk's hands to it. Its these little things that make human interfaces easy, just like a first person shooter game. You walk over a piece of ammo/weapon, you automatically pick it up. You see an enemy, the targetting computer automatically points the gunpod in that direction. For me i feel the valkyrie controls are mostly automated. Everything from firing the gunpod, stabbing with knife etc. The pilot can choose to have manual control during other more "sensitive" situations though like when Alto is grabbing Ranka with in ep 2, his joystick has triggers for each of the valk's fingers so he can grab Ranka off the ground with care. I had considered that, but the scene feels a little too over-emotive to be something as simple as that. And even if Alto's arm motion did end on an emotive note, it still seems like the initial movement was Alto trying to grab the gun pod. Though it is anime, which is always overly dramatic, and it appears to be the only time we see something like this supposed motion capture in the entire series (which occurs at the emotionally charged ending of the show). One would think if there was a motion capture system, it would have been showcased before the final episode. Perhaps you're right.
Mr March Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Just humor me okay. Do you guys think a Macross class can dock with a NMC port? I doubt it would fit as is, but I think the Macross Class could certainly be easily adapted to fit the City/Island Ship docking port. They likely have similar sized engines/lower legs and they are in roughly the same configuration. They may not be exactly the same, but it's certainly not a case of a square peg in a round hole. A little bit of work and tadaaa! Macross Class rear view schematic New Macross Class rear view
ChronoReverse Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 And considering they moved a city from space into the interior of the Macross and even kept the buildings, I'd say that their engineer would definitely be able to jury-rig a solution
anime52k8 Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 I doubt it would fit as is, but I think the Macross Class could certainly be easily adapted to fit the City/Island Ship docking port. They likely have similar sized engines/lower legs and they are in roughly the same configuration. They may not be exactly the same, but it's certainly not a case of a square peg in a round hole. A little bit of work and tadaaa! Macross Class rear view schematic New Macross Class rear view more like a case of square peg in an unequal polygonal hole. if you try hard enough you could dock anything to a macross city/island section, you'd just need to build an adapter section with one end that's shaped like an NMC's feet that fits into the docking section, and at the other end a hole the shape of what ever you're trying to connect to it. now here's an interesting question: even though they're both NMC's the feet/rear end of the Frontier/galaxy appear to be different from the feet/back end of the Mac7. could battle frontier dock with an older city section like city 7, or the Mac7 dock with Island 1?
badboy00z Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 The booklet that comes with DVD/Blu-ray volume 2 has pictures that shows how the cockpit readjusts it's position inside the VF as it transofrms... unfortunately I don't have a scanner... maybe someone else does Do you have a digital camera?
Beltane70 Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 I know that! I said that the design wasn't finished and weren't put into mass production as a carrier. Read more carefully before acting like a smart aleck. A bit touchy there aren't we? No need to get an attitude.
Sumdumgai Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 now here's an interesting question: even though they're both NMC's the feet/rear end of the Frontier/galaxy appear to be different from the feet/back end of the Mac7. could battle frontier dock with an older city section like city 7, or the Mac7 dock with Island 1? Probably depends on if Battle Frontier/Galaxy is larger than Battle 7. I'm under the impression that Battle Frontier is larger than Battle 7, but it's just an impression.
RedWolf Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) Not much NMC Battle sections are roughly the same size despite the variants and upgrades. is this for your fic or just wondering about it? Just thinking of the ending mind you. Like several years later. I don't think the Colonials would appreciate an NMC considering their Battlestars' nature. Edited October 7, 2008 by RedWolf
Shaka_Z Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 I don't think the Colonials would appreciate an NMC considering their Battlestars' nature. why do you say that? they would certainly love the BFG long time ^^. but then they would probably like the nupetiet vernitzs more
RedWolf Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 why do you say that? they would certainly love the BFG long time ^^. but then they would probably like the nupetiet vernitzs more Macross Class has more anti-aircraft flak than NMCs. Just their style.
azrael Posted October 7, 2008 Author Posted October 7, 2008 Well, now we're just comparing apples and oranges. Comparing Battlestars to New Macross-class.
Morpheus Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 Well, now we're just comparing apples and oranges. Comparing Battlestars to New Macross-class. That just phase 1 of Macross Frontier withdrawal syndrome, it may become worst.
Beltane70 Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) Ah yes, the five stages of dealing with the ending of Macross Frontier. Denial - It can't be over, there's got to be second season, there just has to. Anger - Kawamori is a troll! How the hell could he let it end like this. Damn you for not telling us who Alto picked. You suck! Bargaining - Please, please, make a second season! I'll buy two copies of every DVD and BluRay disk. I'll even buy multiples of the CDs, toys, models. Anything for a second season. Please, please? Depression - What'll I do without Frontier? Anime just isn't worth watching anymore without Macross. Acceptance - Okay, Frontier is over. I'll just have to watch something else. At least there's the movie coming out! Edited October 7, 2008 by Beltane70
anime52k8 Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 Ah yes, the five stages of dealing with the ending of Macross Frontier. Denial - It can't be over, there's got to be second season, there just has to. Anger - Kawamori is a troll! How the hell could he let it end like this. Damn you for not telling us who Alto picked. You suck! Bargaining - Please, please, make a second season! I'll buy two copies of every DVD and BluRay disk. I'll even buy multiples of the CDs, toys, models. Anything for a second season. Please, please? Depression - What'll I do without Frontier? Anime just isn't worth watching anymore without Macross. Acceptance - Okay, Frontier is over. I'll just have to watch something else. At least there's the movie coming out! and double it for michel... OH GOD WHY!!! ;_;
daflip702 Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 if you guys notice, thre are certain portions of the ex-gear flightsuit that bear a remarkable resemblance to motion capture transponders - most notably on the wrists and ankles. it is possible that at least for the ex-gear system, the suit monitors both absolute position of certain body parts via these transponders, and also monitors neuromuscular activity for smaller appendages like the fingers via other sensors in the suit itself. I've long thought that the neuromuscular monitoring would be critical to any kind of battroid type mecha that isnt built like a masamume shirow style landmate - it would actually be fairly straightforward to implement as well, since the tech for monitoring that activity has been around so long as to be nearly ubiquitous (heartrate monitors for instance), and doesnt have to try to make sense of higher brain functions like some other implementations I have seen like the BDI of the YF-21. the transponders on the ex-gear flightsuit probably monitor the muscle impulses of the lower leg and foot as well as the overall position of the ankle itself, while the wrist units likely handle those tasks for the finger, hand and wrist groups. certainly there are more transponders present than those (they just happen to be the most obvious ones). Hmmm...interesting point. Makes sense for alto connecting slave mode to controll the Valk from the outside. I think the flight suit can be fitted with sensors aside from the EXGear. BTW....I think it is said some where that SK designed the VF-25 as a cross between the VF-1 and the 19....That is why the transformation of the cockpit rotates forward and the screens on the bottom becomes the HUD display in Battroid. I say...the 25 "borrows" the wing design from the Metal Siren.
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