Macross Frontier Mecha/Technology Thread III *Read 1st Post*

[Fatalist]

I so want to see that.

Thats kinda what I had originally hoped for when she decided to start the flight school. And I figured from that footage the purple valk would be her's. Too bad it wasnt meant to be.

I kinda figured it was the same shot as Ozma with the packs on, but just wanted to be sure.

Thanks for the info guys. Appreciate it.

[Graham]

Heh, the early propmotion footage also showed the VF-25 with missiles on the wings and taking out Vajra in fighter mode using the wing root lasers.

Graham

[Graham]

To whoever that called that the missile launchers on the VF-171EX can fire both forward and rearwards, he was right. It was shown in the ep preview of ep 23 when Alto fired missiles in battroid form and missiles came out from the forward and rearward ports of the missile rack.

Actually, in that scene, I thought it was the wing missiles firing from the left and right wings. Have to fire up the laptop nad watch that scene again more carefully.

Graham

[David Hingtgen]

I was really hoping that'd be Sheryl's valk too. We've never had a valk with purple stripes.

[Graham]

Err... Weren't the micromissiles fired by Alto's VF-25 at the begining of Episode 22 MDEs? Their explosions emitted some kind of purple-pinkish light when they destroyed the Vajra if I remember correctly...

Don't have access to ep 23 at the moment, but when I watched the GG sub yesterday, I seem to recall Luca(?) mentioning something about how the missiles (or rounds) contain powdred Vajra, or Vajra fragments or something like that, which is why they work on Vajra.........or I may have just been dreaming it.

Graham

[Graham]

I was really hoping that'd be Sheryl's valk too. We've never had a valk with purple(ish) stripes.

Not in an anime, but we did in the PS2 game.

Graham

[wolfx]

Don't have access to ep 23 at the moment, but when I watched the GG sub yesterday, I seem to recall Luca(?) mentioning something about how the missiles (or rounds) contain powdred Vajra, or Vajra fragments or something like that, which is why they work on Vajra.........or I may have just been dreaming it.

Graham

The missile warheads contain fold quartz fragments....luca did not specifically say they were the MDEs but everyone seems to think so. Also the explosions don't look any different from conventional missiles and they look like they blow up the same as conventional missiles.

[RedWolf]

Hopefully if Galaxy does come have them show some variety in their Valkyrie fleet.

Captain Wilen's bird (Where the heck is he anyway?)

YF-24 as a the mass production VF-24

[VF-25 Messiah]

YF-24 as a the mass production VF-24

VF-24? Doesn't exist.

The YF-24 was the basis for the VF-25 and possibly VF-27, but a VF-24 has never been mentioned...

Kind of like there's no VF-21, the YF-21 instead became reworked into the VF-22

EDIT: Doh, misread what you meant.

Edited September 15, 2008 by VF-25 Messiah

[grss1982]

Don't have access to ep 23 at the moment, but when I watched the GG sub yesterday, I seem to recall Luca(?) mentioning something about how the missiles (or rounds) contain powdred Vajra, or Vajra fragments or something like that, which is why they work on Vajra.........or I may have just been dreaming it.

Graham

Psst.....it was actually in episode 22 that Alto and Luca were talking about the new missles. According to gg's subs, Luca was saying "Its because these MDE warheads use fold-ore particles extracted from Vajra carcasses."

EDIT:

Also the explosions of these supposed MDE warheads was just like run of the mill micro missles. No purple-pink colors during the explosions. Although I could hear what seemed like a Vajra screaming in pain during the explosions.

Edited September 15, 2008 by grss1982

[anime52k8]

Hopefully if Galaxy does come have them show some variety in their Valkyrie fleet.

Captain Wilen's bird (Where the heck is he anyway?)

somehow I don't think that's a VF, just doesn't look like it could transform to me.

YF-24 as a the mass production VF-24

OHHH... I when did this show up?

[Kronnang Dunn]

Also the explosions of these supposed MDE warheads was just like run of the mill micro missles. No purple-pink colors during the explosions. Although I could hear what seemed like a Vajra screaming in pain during the explosions.

Need a pic of that explosion to rectify... But I'm pretty sure that I saw a conventional explosion with some puple-pinky lights coming from it and the "scream" you mentioned was more like the sound of a DE reaction to me...

Edited September 16, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[David Hingtgen]

OHHH... I when did this show up?

Episode 15.

[grss1982]

Need a pic of that explosion to rectify... But I'm pretty sure that I saw a conventional explosion with some puple-pinky lights coming from it and the "scream" you mentioned was more like the sound of a DE reaction to me...

http://i34.tinypic.com/1zfqu8p.jpg

Just as the missles moves toward the center of the screen you hear some king of "scream" or screeching sound.

No purple-pinky lights though.

Edited September 16, 2008 by grss1982

[Mark Nguyen]

Anyone wonder what happened to the Dulfim? The orange Macross Galaxy ship? After all they went through to save her, the ship and crew were first placed "under quarantine" and subsequently disappeared... It was a pretty cool looking ship, but it hasn't shown up since episode 8 or 9...

Mark

[RedWolf]

Anyone wonder what happened to the Dulfim? The orange Macross Galaxy ship? After all they went through to save her, the ship and crew were first placed "under quarantine" and subsequently disappeared... It was a pretty cool looking ship, but it hasn't shown up since episode 8 or 9...

Mark

Probably a bunch of plants under force mode.

Same goes for Captain Wilen.

[anime52k8]

Anyone wonder what happened to the Dulfim? The orange Macross Galaxy ship? After all they went through to save her, the ship and crew were first placed "under quarantine" and subsequently disappeared... It was a pretty cool looking ship, but it hasn't shown up since episode 8 or 9...

Mark

the crew was probebly integrated into the frontier population or the military escort. (they may not have even known what was going on. it's possible only a limited number of people on galaxy knew what Grace and Co. were up to). as for the ship, it was probebly scraped and used for part's to maintain the rest of the fleet, or fixed up and put to use but hasn't been shown (I vote for the first option)

[Kelsain]

Anyone wonder what happened to the Dulfim? The orange Macross Galaxy ship? After all they went through to save her, the ship and crew were first placed "under quarantine" and subsequently disappeared... It was a pretty cool looking ship, but it hasn't shown up since episode 8 or 9...

Mark

Ha! I was just coming to this thread to pose the same question! If they're all slaves, like Brera now, I wonder if they'll show up fighting for Grace in the next 2 episodes. I bet they won't, unfortunately.

[Gin]

Ha! I was just coming to this thread to pose the same question! If they're all slaves, like Brera now, I wonder if they'll show up fighting for Grace in the next 2 episodes. I bet they won't, unfortunately.

That would actually be pretty interesting seeing as how the galaxy was supposed to be superior to frontier.

[Morpheus]

I think Dulfim will show up at the end of episode 24, along with the rest of Galaxy fleet. And hell will break loose when Grace started to sing Sharon Apple style.

[Knight26]

I was thinking about something recently, could the micron/macronization chamber be used as a rejuvination system? Think about it, when you are macroed or microed your original cells aren't reused, to the best of my knowledge, instead new ones are grown from your DNA, hence it is a cloning system which transfers your conciousness. The offshoot of this of course is that you would come out with brand new, young cells, unless the cells rapidly age as has been seen with current cloned animals. Klan is a perfect example of this, something in her DNA especially makes her a pre-teen in physical maturity when microned, but a busty adult when macronized. Could this possible rejuvination also explain how characters like Max, Millia, and Exedore were so relatively young in Macross-7, all three had been micro/macroed a few times (if you believe DYRL, but I see no reason that Max/Millia would not have resized in order to test out new Q-Raus during their test pilot days).

[DarkReaper]

Was it ever established that it really transfers your conciousness? Because it is also argued in star trek beaming that your pre-beam self dies and a new you is recreated on target. Everyone outside as well the person after-beam would never notice a difference, but your own conscious existence is in effect dead.

[Knight26]

I assume that the conciousness is somehow transfered as all knowledge, personnallity etc... is also transferred, and that really is something that can't be transmitted via simple matter transference or replication. That is one of the reasons I refuse to use teleportation, as seen in trek, as a means of personnel conveyence in my own stories, I only use it for matter replication, using a mass reserve, and in the event a living organism is teleported it always comes out dead, and if revived has zero memory.

[DarkReaper]

Well, transfering memories and stuff is no problem, after all there has to be a physical presence of it in the brain, and if beaming is a perfect lossless process it should work. However the problem is continuity of the consciousness, and that I guess is something that can't be physically described and belongs more to the fields of philosophy or meta-physics.

[Edit] Then again what happens when you die on the operating table, was there a breach of continuity? Is continuity preserved as long as your brain isn't brain dead yet? Of course, the matter that it still is the same physical brain will play into it, but the beamed brain also is supposedly the exact same brain, with the relative position and (quantum) state unchanged to pre-beam.

That opens up another problem though, if there is the ability to create that exact copy out of information packages or energy, what stops you from creating that exact same person twice using stored energy. Is there a fundamental difference between the energy you received from the original person or the energy you used out of some mass storage or whatever? According to quantum physics every particle down to the subatomic state is indistinguishable from the one next to it, and only the fermi and boson laws tell us how they behave, as two fermi particles can't exist in the same quantum but bosons can. So energy is also indistinguishable and can create matter though Einsteins mass-energy equivalency.

So if there are two persons out there that started from the exact same seed (think artificial random nrs.) at t=0, does your conciousness split up into two simultaneous parts, does your simultaneous existence cancel each other out sort of like fermi's law in macro-space, is there still your unbroken conciousness in the first beamed person but the recreated person somehow has a seperate but identical consciousness. Which law would decide where your consciousness ends up in.

Is it like shrödingers cat where you exist in two simultaneous but different quantum states, disintegrating as soon as you become conscious of your other self just like Wile E. Coyote needs to be aware of the drop before he drops?

So I guess it could be mathematically disproved by contradiction but that opens up another can of worms.

I could rave on forever about this stuff but I guess it's impossible for a conscious mind to objectively understand it's own consciousness.

[edit2]Oh yeah i forgot that Heisenbergs uncertainty principle will surely have something to say in the possibility of perfect reproduction, but as you can accurately measure the eigenstate of any given system and that eigenstate accurately describes the system at the time of beaming, as the process of beaming has returned every particle in your body back to its eigenstate, then accurate reproduction of that same accumulation of eigenstates in the new body should be possible.

Edited September 17, 2008 by DarkReaper

[ChronoReverse]

Was it ever established that it really transfers your conciousness? Because it is also argued in star trek beaming that your pre-beam self dies and a new you is recreated on target. Everyone outside as well the person after-beam would never notice a difference, but your own conscious existence is in effect dead.

Except they hand-waved it in Star Trek with "quantum level transfer" which means that doesn't happen. They even reference the style of "teleportation" you mentioned as old and not desirable.

[sketchley]

Great Mechanics.DX 10 came out. Picked it up, and was blown away by their VF-25 vs VF-27 article. Why? Hard and fast stats on the VF-25 and the VF-27!!!

Translation of the stats: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/inde...ic=1934.new#new

There is a bunch more to the article, and there is at least a paragraph or two devoted to the ISC. Sadly, I don't have any more time to translate the article (too busy with RL, and my translating plate is full of Macross Chronicle).

What's surprised me is that the VF-25 doesn't have any internal (micro) missile launchers. Where the heck did those missiles come from in episode one?!?!

[azrael]

Great Mechanics.DX 10 came out. Picked it up, and was blown away by their VF-25 vs VF-27 article. Why? Hard and fast stats on the VF-25 and the VF-27!!!

*runs to Compendium*

[DarkReaper]

Great Mechanics.DX 10 came out. Picked it up, and was blown away by their VF-25 vs VF-27 article. Why? Hard and fast stats on the VF-25 and the VF-27!!!

Translation of the stats: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/inde...ic=1934.new#new

There is a bunch more to the article, and there is at least a paragraph or two devoted to the ISC. Sadly, I don't have any more time to translate the article (too busy with RL, and my translating plate is full of Macross Chronicle).

What's surprised me is that the VF-25 doesn't have any internal (micro) missile launchers. Where the heck did those missiles come from in episode one?!?!

The engine stats don't give a proper unit of force. 1620K of what, Kilonewtons? if that is true each engine produces more thrust than both VF-19S engines together.

And whats the difference between a super fold booster and a normal fold booster? The standard one and the new fold quartz enhanced one? The VF-25 can mount it aswell.

[sketchley]

Dammit! I'm pretty certain that I typed in that N!!!

Yuppers, that's 1,620 KiloNewtons x2 and 1,377 Kilo Newtons x4.

Translations are as per the info in the article. One said "fold booster", the other said "super fold booster." Perhaps they are different from the able-to-by-pass fold disruptions type?

Edited September 17, 2008 by sketchley

[sketchley]

Gah... reread it and man, it must be late (03:44 AM) as there was a piss-load of typos. Should be all fixed now. "That's 4 micro-missile launchers on the '27, son".

*runs to Compendium*

[Knight26]

Ok, but what the heck is an Inertia Store Converter? Does it feature some form of acceleration comp for the pilot, or is possibly some way to slow the craft down rapidly without thrusters?

[Final Vegeta]

Thanks Sketchley, great stuff.

Base weapons: 12.7 mm coaxial beam gun (Mauler ROV-217C) x1 (set in the monitor head), choice of either 25 mm high-speed machine gun [cannon] (Remmington ES-25A) or 25 mm beam machine gun [cannon] (Mauler ROV-25) x2

I still don't get where the 12.7 coaxial beam gun is. Maybe the small bump over the head?

The others are the head lasers? Are they replaceable with machineguns?

Maximum atmospheric speed: M 5.2+ ([at] 10,000 m, on account of the fuselage heat-resistance boundary. Possible to do M9+ for brief periods by protecting the fuselage with the pin-point barrier and energy conversion armour.

Whoah Will we see it in the series?

Base weapons: choice of either 20 mm beam gun (Rammington ES-25A) or 25 mm beam machine gun [cannon] (Mauler ROV-25) x2.

On the head? But there is only one gun

35 mm heavy beam machine gun [cannon] (Sentinel HBC/HS-35B) x2

I gueass these are in the wings.

BGP-01 (Greek Symbol for Beta) Beam Gun pod / Beam grenade x1,

Beam grenade

Internal-type micro-missile launcher (Bifors BML-04B).

We know where these are.

The beam gunpod is refit to MDE particle beam specifications.

MDE particle beam?

FV

[sketchley]

Thanks Sketchley, great stuff.

Base weapons: 12.7 mm coaxial beam gun (Mauler ROV-217C) x1 (set in the monitor head), choice of either 25 mm high-speed machine gun [cannon] (Remmington ES-25A) or 25 mm beam machine gun [cannon] (Mauler ROV-25) x2

I still don't get where the 12.7 coaxial beam gun is. Maybe the small bump over the head?

VF-25? Head laser.

Base weapons: choice of either 20 mm beam gun (Rammington ES-25A) or 25 mm beam machine gun [cannon] (Mauler ROV-25) x2.

On the head? But there is only one gun

Oops. It appears that I competely missed the head weapon: 20 mm beam gun (ROV-20) x1

So, that should be 1 AA/head weapon, 2 fuselage beam guns, 2 engine nacelle beam guns, 4 internal missile launchers, and the big beam/grenade cannon.

[Final Vegeta]

VF-25? Head laser.

Do you mean for the G version (there is a single laser listed)?

Only now that I think about it I remember there were hip guns

Oops. It appears that I competely missed the head weapon: 20 mm beam gun (ROV-20) x1

Good, with all this nitpicking we are getting the complete stats

By the way, I was forgetting something interesting I found in Macross F official site

FV

[Final Vegeta]

Now that I note about it, no information on the knife once again

FV