The Megaroad crew and the original "Triangler"- why the hang

[dreamweaver13]

Yes, this is indeed an old issue. Well, to be more precise, the question of what ultimately happened to the original Triangler - Hikaru, Misa and Minmei - is the old issue. This branched out to other debates… reveal the story vs. keep it an eternal mystery. dead vs. just missing. catastrophic macross universe event vs. plain accident. stay missing vs. come back in a future macross series. Old debates, for sure, and no answers in sight. But what really bakes my noggin is... why? What is with this obsession with learning about the eventual fate of the original Triangler? Why do we jump at the slightest possibility that their fates will be revealed? Why this blatant refusal (for some) to accept that they are simply missing somewhere, never to be seen from or heard again?

I got myself thinking on this question when I got my brother to watch Macross Frontier for the first time. First of all, he's no macross fan. His only true exposure to the franchise was with Macross Plus (and we all know how that can stand completely on its own). But he was able to see some episodes of SDFM while I was watching. He knows who Hikaru, Misa and Minmei are. He knows about how singing saved the day. In one of my geek moments, I might have mentioned to him that the trio went off into space one final time after the series before disappearing forever. But that's it. He never watched SDFM in its entirety. He didn't watch DYRL. In sum, he's not a macross fan, but he has a general idea of what it was all about.

And 1 episode into MacF, when he first saw the vajra, his first comment was, hey maybe that's what attacked the three. Maybe that's why they disappeared. 5 episodes in, he's asking me for any hint if those three will make a cameo somewhere along the line. 7 episodes in, he's already predicting that they will.

If a guy not that much into macross can get this hung up over those three particular characters, what hope do all the rest of us have??

So basically, just what is it about those three??

It's not like their story ended with a cliffhanger. By the end of SDFM (or DYRL) we know for sure who Hikaru chose. And no beating the bush about it this time. He basically let go of minmei, and told her to her face that he's gonna be with Misa. Minmei didn't sulk, or swear revenge, or swear that he'll get him back one of these days; she walked away (albeit with some sadness and reluctance, sure). Hikaru didn't sound confused or regretful when he chose Misa (especially in DYRL). Misa didn't sound paranoid or unsure of her relationship.

If you take into consideration anime ending standards, the endings of SDFM and DYRL closed the book on the story better than any I've seen. You can't write a new chapter to that, there's no open question. You want closure from an anime series, you watch SDFM or DYRL. It's no evangelion, that's for sure.

So despite that, why can't we let them go? Why do these three characters live on to this day, despite their story being told?

My theories:

1. Kawamori himself. The hory froating head might very well have created this obsession himself. Let's face it, if we knew nothing else about the Triangler other than what we saw in SDFM/DYRL, I don’t think we'd be hung up over them this much. We'd just surmise that they all lived happily ever after, and that Minmei would still be the ultimate idol in the galaxy. We'd be perfectly satisfied seeing a story centered around Max & Miriya without clamoring for more. We'd enjoy the other series without praying for a surprise appearance. But SK didn't let it go at that. He came up with Flashback2012, where he showed Hikaru, Misa and Minmei all in the same ship all over again. And then later on, he declared that they disappeared near the center of the galaxy. This was never animated, just a by-line, an established fact in the time-line. If you didn't pay attention, you wouldn't even know about it. But when that was officially placed in the timeline, we have SK declaring that he would never touch on those 3 characters again.

The perfect ingredients for the ultimate everlasting mystery: great characters, closure on the story, a sudden unexplained event, and... silence. SK has ensured that those 3 beloved characters will live forever in the minds of macross fans. They will not age. We will not remember them with white hair, all-aged. We will always remember them the way they looked in SDFM/DYRL/Flashback. If anything, SK showed the greatest respect for these 3 characters by putting them in stasis forever.

Ok, if you see it this way, you'll realize that it's just right as rain. If you're a fan of the three, you'd love that they're immortal in the macross universe. Sure there's a desire to know what actually happened, but their status as the "great mystery" should outweigh that itch. Some of us already feel this way. But then, why do most of us still want a continuation to their story? Why this subtle (sometimes almost unconscious) disappointment whenever a new macross series does not give the explanation of what happened to them? Why is it whenever you hear their names, you subconsciously wish that the next line would be, "according to the search and rescue fleet, they...."

Which goes to my second theory:

2. The influence of Robotech. I hate to put the word "influence" and "robotech" in the same sentence ( ), but I can't deny it exists in some form. (this applies only to those who watched RT first, or watched it later to help stem their macross fix). Sure, RT changed the Macross concepts considerably, but its biggest sin (with respect to this topic) is that it attempted to continue the story by adding two other anime series to the mix. In so doing, it created the conception that the story of the three wasn't finished. Particularly, that Hikaru (Rick) and Misa (Lisa) were sent to space again to do something of sheer importance to the human race. And Minmei came along for the ride, of course. And later on, Hikaru (that's Admiral Hunter to you!) and Misa come back to earth to bring closure to this over-extended drama. The influence goes even deeper if you were also drawn into the McKinney books and the short-lived Sentinels animated series. There, the viewers definitely get the impression that all is not over between those three. Hikaru is still a confused dolt. Misa is still insecure. Minmei still refuses to let his former boytoy go. Thus, the drama continues.

But that's RT. Where do macross fans come in? Well, a percentage of Mac fans may have seen RT first, and may already have been deep into the RT mythos before they realize the mindfrack that was done on them. So when they formally shifted to the Macross universe, they might have carried along that perception that something is still left untold about the story of Hikaru, Misa and Minmei. Or if they started with Macross, then watched RT, they could have gotten the same impression inadvertently. Carry that perception of an "unfinished love triangle" into a Macross universe where those three same people disappeared in very mysterious circumstances, then BOOM! that obsession about the Triangler is multiplied many times over.

Don't know if this theory is anywhere near true. We'd have to compare people who saw RT and those who didn't see RT. Well, if we take VFTF1 as a sample (sorry dude)... maybe. He claims he never saw RT, and he does find Mac7 as perfect, without any hint of regret that it doesn't resolve the mystery behind the three. (But then again, VFTF1 does have the tendency to misspell Misa as Misa Hayes… ).

3. well, as a final one, there's always the catch-all explanation: cultural differences. Being a long-time anime follower, I know that in anime, endings are usually open-ended, or subject to many interpretations. And more often than not, those endings remain just like that. And anime fans are not surprised by such endings anymore (endings with real closure are actually more surprising), and the Japanese are probably used to it (correct me if I'm wrong on this one). But to someone who's not used to anime, an open ended ending just does not sit well. Close the book, give me a proper ending. And don't spoil that proper ending by saying that they disappeared in space later on.

Oh well, these are all random thoughts. Might be silly, might ring true. Any thoughts? Violent reactions? Refusal to be believe that our minds have been played with? My actual opinion is probably the simplest: SK/Big West just happened to create three perfectly wonderful characters, and created one of the more believable and relatable love triangles in fiction, and I just want them to live on. It's just that good... so good, in fact, that even a causual fan with little Macross background would ask... "so what happened to Hikaru, Misa and Minmei?"

EDIT: the thread title is actually: "The Megaroad crew and the original "Triangler"- why the hang-up?", (psychological? closure? great characters refusing to die?).

Guess it didn't fit.

Edited July 29, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[lord_breetai]

I think you hit the nail on all 3 points, especially the last one it's not just anime in general, Japanese stories tend not to spoon feed things to their followers like American stories do, this recently came to light in a novel I read about Dracula in Meiji Era Japan, and there's still about 3 different ways that could have ended.

Yes Robotech especially since it has three different versions of the fates of the characters (Macek's original plan, the McKinney novels and the Shadow Chronicles), does make the idea of worrying about their fates a big deal and I'm sure that carries over me and for others.

And yeah, you're right if we just knew they went off in a ship and lived "happily ever after" it wouldn't be a big deal, like I don't need to know if Max and Millia eventually moved back in with each other and Mylene died an old maid because she kept waiting for Basara to get back while Gamlin killed himself cause he couldn't win Mylene over (I'm just being silly), It's fun to think about but not a big deal... where as Minmay's fate is... might be because i don't know if she lived horribly ever after or just died a horrible painful death.

[Gubaba]

One of the reasons I stopped watching Gundam quite a while back was that, to me, Gundam was never the story of some big, primary-colored robot, and was always more about the evolving story of Amuro and Char. I kept hoping they would show up in Double Zeta, and was disappointed when they didn't. I was quite honestly surprised when F91 came out, since I was convinced that (apart from side-stories and things), Char's Counterattack finished the Gundam story. If neither of them are around (or mentioned), it just doesn't feel like Gundam to me. That's one the main reasons that I cling to the (most likely wrong) idea that Usso Evin is Char's great-grandson.

In anime, there are many sequels which feature no original characters or are set hundreds of years after the original anime...I used to hate those. When Macross II came out here, I disliked it for that reason (among other things), and i wasn't terribly excited about Plus coming out until the guy and the comic shop/anime video rental place near my house said that I would love it, and he'd refund my money if I didn't. (Needless to say, he kept my money and got more of it, since I bought the tape the next day.) At that time, I was more excited to see M7, since that had Max and Millia in it. (Of course, a few years later, I saw it...and it was nothing like I'd been expecting.)

So that was when my second Macross kick started, and I've been keeping my ear to the ground ever since...but I've never expected to see Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay again, because they've never announced that they would be back. So Macross has managed to shift for me in a way that Gundam never did...from a focus on the characters to a focus on the world. But for other people, it could be reversed...Gundam is all about space colonies and brightly-colored robots, whereas Macross is, at heart, the story of three specific people. And if they're not there, it feels like going to a school reunion and finding out that none of your old best friends could make it.

As I said, I don't share the sentiment, but I understand it.

[dreamweaver13]

whereas Macross is, at heart, the story of three specific people. And if they're not there, it feels like going to a school reunion and finding out that none of your old best friends could make it.

dammit, i love this analogy.

[Master Dex]

Eh, I just assume they're dead. I suppose they could be out there... doing stuff and having fun. However they got a number of stories out of those kids, I'm content with letting them rest. They went out on the first colony ship, started they're voyage and had fun, then later they were gone. Max and Millia on the other hand became important to one of the later model colony ships and did they're voyage, but stopped to play some music for some inter dimensional vampires along the way and had some fun with that, and then they moved on. Frontier is doing some stuff somewhere near a gas giant and now its private military is stopping to wrestle with some bugs that may turn out to be not so bad as some questionable cyborgs and they are having fun. Eventually they will complete their story, whatever that is, and move on.

I don't keep myself caught up in what happens afterward, although epilogues are nice sometimes I can live without. Besides, aspiring writers can make so many fanfics when there is no set ending for some characters or a story. With a solid end writers can still write fanfics but they may eventually find themselves changing the universe to make it work.

[Zinjo]

Kawamori made that off the cuff remark because at the time he was finished with Macross, divorced himself from it as it were. Kinda like Dave Chappelle did with his show. Too much attention, too soon. He didn't want to be "type cast" as a person only capable of doing Macross productions. Hence his 10 year uninvolvement with the Franchise.

I believe the release of Mac II without him or Studio Nue and his failed attempts at getting Plus produced outside of the Macross franchise contributed to his return to the universe. Macross Plus was his baby and I believe Mac 7 was part of the contract to get Plus produced.

I suspect the fate of the original triangle became just another enigma of the universe, much like the SA and the PC are. It has become part of the "magic" of Macross and if you give away the secret it is no longer magic. That isn't to say it will never be revealed, but if it ever is, I'd expect an equally potent mystery to take its place.

The relationship enigma has become a trademark of the franchise. What happened to Minmay, Misa and Hikaru, what happened to Basara Mylene, and Gamlin, what happened to Myung and Isamu, etc... I fully expect that the fate one or all three of the Frontier's triangle to become the next mystery for the fans to chew on, because well, that's just Macross... no riding off into the sunset for these folks...

Edited July 29, 2008 by Zinjo

[RedWolf]

I loled at the Tabloid ep of M7 where Basara is Hikaru and Minmei's love child.

If you make a calculation Basara's age don't add up.

Anyway seeing those three again would be impossible.

But I would pay good money if a Macross series focused on Miku Ichijyo.

Say the Megaroad 1 or the Nupetiet-Vergnitzs class escort was founsd, the kid was kept in suspended animation.

With no clue as to the crew's whereabouts.

[dreamweaver13]

The relationship enigma has become a trademark of the franchise. What happened to Minmay, Misa and Hikaru, what happened to Basara Mylene, and Gamlin, what happened to Myung and Isamu, etc... I fully expect that the fate one or all three of the Frontier's triangle to become the next mystery for the fans to chew on, because well, that's just Macross... no riding off into the sunset for these folks...

It would be really nice if the next generation of macross fans would end up having the same reverence for Alto, Sheryl and Ranka as we did the original big 3 of the Macross universe. means that the franchise would live on, and would not necessarily end with us old-school macross fans.

Just don't have the Frontier just suddenly disappearing at the end of the series, though! hehe.

Redwolf,

I am already of the position that it would be better to leave the fate of the Megaroad a mystery, but your idea ain't bad! they don't even have to look for the three anymore, but just focus on Miku.

Edited July 29, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Master Dex]

Redwolf,

I am already of the position that it would be better to leave the fate of the Megaroad a mystery, but your idea ain't bad! they don't even have to look for the three anymore, but just focus on Miku.

Indeed, if Miku doesn't know what happened to the big 3, then it is still a mystery and only partially answered.

[dreamweaver13]

Indeed, if Miku doesn't know what happened to the big 3, then it is still a mystery and only partially answered.

But then if Miku's co-survivor is her best friend, almost same age, kinda looks like her but sings very well.... oh my, here we go again...

[RedWolf]

But then if Miku's co-survivor is her best friend, almost same age, kinda looks like her but sings very well.... oh my, here we go again...

Even better Miku being a tsundere and the protagonist pilot calling her Obasan.

[brouken]

Just happened to browse this thread and decided to throw in my two cents worth.

I'm a huge admirer of Japanese culture in general (not just pop), and from what I've understood so far (as if "understanding" the Japanese were truly possible! ), the Japanese love nuances.

Most westerners, who've gotten so used to being direct to the point are more often than not understandably flabbergasted at the Japanese way of doing things. Its a cultural difference that would remain as distinct as our racial/physiological differences.

Every once in a while, a few of us might be lucky enough to catch a glimpse into the Japanese psyche, either through being with them and enjoying their company, or through their works -- like anime.

What makes a story or characters more memorable in Japanese terms is either 1) make it/them tragic; or 2) leave the ending/their fates open to interpretation.

Obviously the original SDFM/DYRL love triangle is of the latter (for which I am glad). Like what dreamweaver said, it effectively "immortalizes" the characters in the audience's minds--planting the seed in them so to speak--for them to spread the word to other people.

Hideo Kojima (creator of the Metal Gear video game franchise) also mentioned this during his interviews: about the need to leave something in the minds of others so that one day, they might be able to continue the universe he created.

It's effectively a way of immortalizing yourself, through your work.

Which is why I would have this to predict about the ending of Macross F:

Alto's love triangle with Ranka and Sheryl will NOT be resolved. They're ultimately more interesting that way I think.

And then one day, dreamweaver would probably open a new thread called "Breaking the Frontier: resolving the sixth generation Macross Triangler"

[Radd]

I'm satisfied with the ample closure already provided to the Hikaru/Misa/Minmay story. Bringing them back would be like beating a dead horse. Unless they had a story in mind that really made use of them, it would wind up being too contrived, too forced. It's a big universe, plenty of room for other people to play their part.

Max and Millia worked as returning characters because we really didn't get a whole lot of development out of their story in SDF. They were never, ever the focus, unlike Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay.

If Hikaru and Misa, or Minmay, or Basara ever showed up I'd expect it would be as a small cameo. I could see Gamlin and Mylene returning, as unlike Hikaru and Misa, we never see these two riding off into the sunset. There's unresolved issues there. Is it necessary to resolve it? No. It will never weigh heavily on my mind.

Will the Alto, Sheryl, Ranka love triangle meet the same fate? Possibly, but I actually kinda doubt it. Unlike Gamlin/Mylene/Basara's "love triangle", this current love triangle seems much more central to the story. Not to mention there is an actual love triangle here, unlike Macross 7 where much of the "love triangle" element is fan conjecture. 7 was very atypical in that regard. Gamlin was certainly after Mylene, Basara certainly was not, and Mylene's own feelings were never entirely clear. Here in Frontier, Ranka and Sheryl both certainly have feelings for Alto, to the point of being outright competitive about it, and Alto certainly has conflicting feelings about both of them.

It could end with the love triangle unresolved, it could even be done well, but it would not be the same as any of the previous Macross love triangles.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Radd

[TehPW]

Yes Robotech especially since it has three different versions of the fates of the characters (Macek's original plan, the McKinney novels and the Shadow Chronicles), does make the idea of worrying about their fates a big deal and I'm sure that carries over me and for others.

OH? Do tell, please (I'm curious)

Kawamori made that off the cuff remark because at the time he was finished with Macross, divorced himself from it as it were. Kinda like Dave Chappelle did with his show. Too much attention, too soon. He didn't want to be "type cast" as a person only capable of doing Macross productions. Hence his 10 year uninvolvement with the Franchise.

I believe the release of Mac II without him or Studio Nue and his failed attempts at getting Plus produced outside of the Macross franchise contributed to his return to the universe. Macross Plus was his baby and I believe Mac 7 was part of the contract to get Plus produced.

When exactly did he make that remark? i was under the assumption that his remark was reaction to some BS related to Robotech, or some odd question there of. For MACII, i thought he declined to work for them, though the possible reason he would? i could only guess but avoiding getting type cast makes perfect sence from a employee perspective. Now with that in mind, go look at the VF/VA-14 & and the VA-3... do they really fit the macross Valkyrie mold or do they fit molds comparing to stand alones like Mospeada's Legios/Treant, Southern Cross's what ever they originally called the hover tanks and go-bot copters, or Orguss's nutty mecha...

plus when i keep hearing about his comment, basically saying they're dead (Hikaru & Co) i think of Gene Rodenbury and his ST '2 nacelle rule' after the fuss with the JF estate about his 70's cheesy book designs (The Saladin/Scout/Potenkin/Dreadnaught designs)... i wonder when Paramount or GR's estate will forget about that bullcrap ruling....

[ChrisG]

I personally don't understand why people are so hung up on the Megaroad. As far as I'm concerned, SDF Macross told the story it needed to tell about Hikaru, Misa and Minmay. Maybe something further with them would've worked in the 1980s, but that time has passed. I'm not in the least bit interested in seeing those three characters again, not the least of which is due to Arihiro Hase being dead. By the same token, it's like how people are still obsessed 20 years later as to whether Amuro and Char survived the end of Char's Counterattack. My feeling there is the same - the story of those two characters has already been told, and they're not needed anymore. Both Macross and Gundam have grown up and moved beyond their respective sets of iconic characters. Yes, both franchises have Char and Roy clones, but they've put the characters themselves to rest, and I think fans should too.

[azrael]

I personally don't understand why people are so hung up on the Megaroad. As far as I'm concerned, SDF Macross told the story it needed to tell about Hikaru, Misa and Minmay. Maybe something further with them would've worked in the 1980s, but that time has passed. I'm not in the least bit interested in seeing those three characters again, not the least of which is due to Arihiro Hase being dead. By the same token, it's like how people are still obsessed 20 years later as to whether Amuro and Char survived the end of Char's Counterattack. My feeling there is the same - the story of those two characters has already been told, and they're not needed anymore.

Unless people see them die on-screen, people will still wonder about them. They believe that if their still alive, there's still a story to be told. Some people aren't satisfied until we see them hit the "happily-ever-after"-point. Some people don't want to see their memories ride off into the sunset and they will cling to it and hold onto it for as long as they can. Some people aren't content with the Sopranos. Sometimes they just don't realize that's all the story that needs to be told.

[TehPW]

Unless people see them die on-screen, people will still wonder about them. They believe that if their still alive, there's still a story to be told. Some people aren't satisfied until we see them hit the "happily-ever-after"-point. Some people don't want to see their memories ride off into the sunset and they will cling to it and hold onto it for as long as they can. Some people aren't content with the Sopranos. Sometimes they just don't realize that's all the story that needs to be told.

with the advent of the last episode of ENT, dear Azrael, there could be another fear that people may or may not have about open-ended situations about chars we hold dear: it was all on the holodeck/was a movie in a movie....

[MjrMisaHayase]

with the advent of the last episode of ENT, dear Azrael, there could be another fear that people may or may not have about open-ended situations about chars we hold dear: it was all on the holodeck/was a movie in a movie....

Just what we need: Another series-ending cliffhanger that will leave our jaws dropped to the floor and us saying, "huh?". (i.e., The Sopranos)

[Scream Man]

Im all for bringing older characters back into the mix in some way. Shin! The Triangle! The M7 kids. Bring em all past for a time, I dont mind. I dont think they WILL, but I'd be cool if they did.

[eugimon]

meh, would be nice to see them, or at least find out what happened to them, but I feel like flashback 2012 was a great send off for them. It confirmed and mended their relationships and ended the series with a bright hope for the future, what more could you want?

[sucker4meltrans]

You know what i want? I want a VF-4 "booby duck" variant to come out of no where piloted by the second, last, and only other true skull leader. Behind Hikaru i want Captain Misa leading a fleet of UN Spacy zentradi battleships. I want a big heroic battle scene with some Minmei music. In anime/magna terms this would be the closest thing in macross to fanservice.

[Batou]

Because the Froating Head got sick of people asking about it would be my guess. Everything that there was to say about that story arc has been said as far as he's concerned. No mystery to it, he's just done with it. Center of the galaxy, never heard from again, that's all folks. Gotcha. There's been more Macross since, and I'd imagine there will be more to come after Frontier (damn well better be ). Maybe I'm in the minority, but I, for one, prefer it this way.

It may also have to do with honoring Arihiro Hase's memory by just leaving it alone (wouldn't continue the story without doing it "right", and can't do it "right" without him as Hikaru).

And I think lord_breetai was right: The Japanese perhaps don't feel obligated to milk the stupid cow until its udders collapse and fall off. And while Kawamori's creative control over Macross may not be validly compared to George Lucas and Star Wars, but I'd imagine he has enough say over the property to pretty much solely determine where it's heading in the future in a very similar way (i.e., shut down any talk about more Minmay from the other studio heads, investors, etc).

Edit: Grammar

Edited August 1, 2008 by Batou

[dreamweaver13]

And then one day, dreamweaver would probably open a new thread called "Breaking the Frontier: resolving the sixth generation Macross Triangler"

Now that would be nice. That would mean that 25 years after showing macross frontier, the impact of the newest triangle lives on, enough to make a study on why it's so damn unforgettable.

[brouken]

Now that would be nice. That would mean that 25 years after showing macross frontier, the impact of the newest triangle lives on, enough to make a study on why it's so damn unforgettable.

I've just finished watching episodes 15 and 16 last night (blames my slow ISP) .

While for me the story so far is good, I'm not so sure it ranks with the original SDFM/DYRL. At least, not just yet. I miss the subtleties of the latter. MF is beginning to seem forced. I hope things improve with the later episodes.

And I don't know about you guys, but Ranka and Sheryl are nowhere near as desirable as Minmay and Misa. (I blame the bright green and marshmallow pink hair. )

I remember being so hopelessly infatuated with Misa as a kid. When the TV series ended, I was like in withdrawal for the longest time. I would spend many hours just looking at the sky out my bedroom window, a dull painful longing in my chest. Kinda like Frodo after the War of the Ring.

THAT's a sure sign that a story is a winner. And THAT is why we're all hung up with the original SDFM characters.

Despite an innate desire to see them again outside of re-watching the series or the movie, I would have to say that I would rather have the dull ache of longing than to have that feeling ruined by at worst, a half-hearted attempt to bring them back due to fanservice.

[sucker4meltrans]

Who didn't love Misa?

[dreamweaver13]

Who didn't love Misa?

the random, unnamed Alaska Base Communications Officer who was laid off by Misa's father just so he can give the slot in the communications center to Misa. imagine, she would have been the sole survivor of alaska base if not for misa coming into the picture. "Hayase Misa teme!!!!", she screamed before she died.

[Gubaba]

I've just finished watching episodes 15 and 16 last night (blames my slow ISP) .

While for me the story so far is good, I'm not so sure it ranks with the original SDFM/DYRL. At least, not just yet. I miss the subtleties of the latter. MF is beginning to seem forced. I hope things improve with the later episodes.

And I don't know about you guys, but Ranka and Sheryl are nowhere near as desirable as Minmay and Misa. (I blame the bright green and marshmallow pink hair. )

I remember being so hopelessly infatuated with Misa as a kid. When the TV series ended, I was like in withdrawal for the longest time. I would spend many hours just looking at the sky out my bedroom window, a dull painful longing in my chest. Kinda like Frodo after the War of the Ring.

THAT's a sure sign that a story is a winner. And THAT is why we're all hung up with the original SDFM characters.

Despite an innate desire to see them again outside of re-watching the series or the movie, I would have to say that I would rather have the dull ache of longing than to have that feeling ruined by at worst, a half-hearted attempt to bring them back due to fanservice.

Blame it on being a kid, I say. I was ten or eleven when I first saw RT, and I swear I thought the story was truly happening. When they got captured by the Zentradi in Blind Game, I was pale and shaking, thinking they could all die at any time. I was so embarrassed for Hikaru during the "Mr. Lingerie" scene, that I almost hid behind the sofa.

A couple of decades (and some increased sophistication) later, and I don't think there's any way a story really COULD grab me as much as it could then. Which is really kind of a shame, but is much easier on my nerves.

[brouken]

Blame it on being a kid, I say. I was ten or eleven when I first saw RT, and I swear I thought the story was truly happening. When they got captured by the Zentradi in Blind Game, I was pale and shaking, thinking they could all die at any time. I was so embarrassed for Hikaru during the "Mr. Lingerie" scene, that I almost hid behind the sofa.

Hehe, that's pretty involved man! If you reacted that way to those episodes, I wonder how you were affected by "Pineapple Salad".

BTW, I watched the original Macross (locally dubbed in english) on Philippine TV way before I watched Robotech. The only reason I got interested in Robotech was because I missed a lot of Macross episodes (to this day and my utter shame, I still haven't completely seen the "Ai ga Nagareru" or "Love is flowing" episode ).

I ended up hating RT though. Especially after seeing what they did to Misa/Lisa in the Robotech Masters OVA (Seriously WTF!?) And seeing Hikaru/Rick Hunter all buffed up is just too much. Never watched another episode of Robotech since then.

[Gubaba]

Hehe, that's pretty involved man! If you reacted that way to those episodes, I wonder how you were affected by "Pineapple Salad".

BTW, I watched the original Macross (locally dubbed in english) on Philippine TV way before I watched Robotech. The only reason I got interested in Robotech was because I missed a lot of Macross episodes (to this day and my utter shame, I still haven't completely seen the "Ai ga Nagareru" or "Love is flowing" episode ).

I ended up hating RT though. Especially after seeing what they did to Misa/Lisa in the Robotech Masters OVA (Seriously WTF!?) And seeing Hikaru/Rick Hunter all buffed up is just too much. Never watched another episode of Robotech since then.

"Pineapple Salad" hit me hard...but then, it's kind of strange...at that time I used to make up stories for what I thought would happen next, and Focker and Kakizaki were the only characters I ever "killed off," both of them BEFORE it happened in the show...

It must have hit one of my buddies harder, though...a few weeks later, he had a dream where he was watching a TV show called "Roy," where Claudia wanted to kill Focker, so she put knives in the pineapple, and poison in his cocktail, which he drank. Then Rick found Roy's body, but thought that he should have died fighting, so he put the body in the Skull-1 and launched it. It crashed. The end.

Very bizarre. Completely off-topic, of course, but I've been wanting to share that one for a while now...

And yes, Robotech is just embarrassing now. I can't watch it anymore.

[lord_breetai]

OH? Do tell, please (I'm curious)

You wanna know Macek's original plan for Robotech huh

3.3.2 What was The Odyssey about?

If the Odyssey was made, it was going to pick up where The New Generation and end of Robotech II: The Sentinels left off. It would be partly about Scott Bernard's search for the SDF-3 as well as the ship's final fate. Macek has written that the SDF-3 would have time travel back into the past to the days before the birth of Zor. The SDF-3's crew would become citizens of the Robotech Masters' homeworld and change time by becoming a part of its history. However, to preserve their own, the events would have to repeat and Zor would be born. History would repeat itself and Zor would launch his Space Fortress. The final episode of Robotech III: The Odyssey would be of Zor dying and his Space Fortress being launched off into space to one day crash on Earth. The next episode after that would be Boobytrap, episode 1 of the original series which in turn will create an endless loop within the Robotech universe. This was Macek's idea of completing and ending Robotech. However, this series was never made as said, and these events are not thought of as authentic/correct or even real since the series was never created and would likely be alternative anyhow.

3.3.3 What stopped it from going into production?

Odyssey never went into production because Robotech II: The Sentinels was never completed. With the completion and success of The Sentinels would have sent Odyssey into the production stage of being created, but Sentinels was cancelled before it barely began. Therefore, Odyssey only has an overview idea of what it would have been about.

Not sure if it was just the Stan Bundy fanfic but I remember reading that Lisa was supposed to die and Rick would have married Minmay and had a kid who would have become Zor.

Edited August 1, 2008 by lord_breetai

[hikennoace]

Greetings to everyone in this forum, I've just registered not too long ago and as you see, this is my first post. I was actually hooked onto the macross franchise after watching a few episodes of frontier, so you can say that I'm among the newer generation of macross fans. So what I did was to download everything to do with macross, all the tv series, ovas, etc. I have to admit, the theme of macross is really like nothing I've seen before. SDF macross was brilliant, you can't find anything like that nowadays.

I didnt know how it must have felt to watch the original series in its time, but to me it was more like getting to understand what this whole macross thing was about, something like a history lesson (a rather enjoyable one). So I guess back then people may not have realised how significant those original three characters have become right now. Any mentioning of them has only been done verbally, and whenever that happens, it feels like you are hearing about a really great legend. To me, events that occurred in their time seem to have happened really really long ago. In my mind I have this idea that they are pretty much gone forever. Of course I wouldnt mind seeing them make any appearance in frontier or other future series, but it will be much better if they are to forever remain at a legendary and untouchable status. Like what most of you guys have said, this is part of the magic that makes macross as a franchise so very special.

[Macross007]

Greetings to everyone in this forum, I've just registered not too long ago and as you see, this is my first post. I was actually hooked onto the macross franchise after watching a few episodes of frontier, so you can say that I'm among the newer generation of macross fans. So what I did was to download everything to do with macross, all the tv series, ovas, etc. I have to admit, the theme of macross is really like nothing I've seen before. SDF macross was brilliant, you can't find anything like that nowadays.

I didnt know how it must have felt to watch the original series in its time, but to me it was more like getting to understand what this whole macross thing was about, something like a history lesson (a rather enjoyable one). So I guess back then people may not have realised how significant those original three characters have become right now. Any mentioning of them has only been done verbally, and whenever that happens, it feels like you are hearing about a really great legend. To me, events that occurred in their time seem to have happened really really long ago. In my mind I have this idea that they are pretty much gone forever. Of course I wouldnt mind seeing them make any appearance in frontier or other future series, but it will be much better if they are to forever remain at a legendary and untouchable status. Like what most of you guys have said, this is part of the magic that makes macross as a franchise so very special.

Welcome to MacrossWorld hikennoace and glad you appreciate Macross so much like the rest of us.

Edited August 2, 2008 by Macross007

[dreamweaver13]

Greetings to everyone in this forum, I've just registered not too long ago and as you see, this is my first post. I was actually hooked onto the macross franchise after watching a few episodes of frontier, so you can say that I'm among the newer generation of macross fans. So what I did was to download everything to do with macross, all the tv series, ovas, etc. I have to admit, the theme of macross is really like nothing I've seen before. SDF macross was brilliant, you can't find anything like that nowadays.

I didnt know how it must have felt to watch the original series in its time, but to me it was more like getting to understand what this whole macross thing was about, something like a history lesson (a rather enjoyable one). So I guess back then people may not have realised how significant those original three characters have become right now. Any mentioning of them has only been done verbally, and whenever that happens, it feels like you are hearing about a really great legend. To me, events that occurred in their time seem to have happened really really long ago. In my mind I have this idea that they are pretty much gone forever. Of course I wouldnt mind seeing them make any appearance in frontier or other future series, but it will be much better if they are to forever remain at a legendary and untouchable status. Like what most of you guys have said, this is part of the magic that makes macross as a franchise so very special.

Welcome to Macrossworld! and thanks for your post. it's quite refreshing to see the old triangle from the fresher perspective of a new fan. From you perspective, it seems more "legend" than "unfinished story", which is a nice view on the whole thing.

[Tinderfitles]

I think at this point Macross is such a big franchise that the main pillars of the story (minmei specifically) deserve to have some sort of ending at this point. Just imagine if they had left the Char/Amuro's ambiguous after Zeta Gundam. Sure we see an empty cockpit float by, but they are such great characters that they deserve to have their story told. Plus Imagine the emotion of seeing the OVA titled "A Star Dies, or How I learned to love Pineapple Salad".

That and my dirty secret is I want to see a VF-4 in action. It's a shame that such a good looking aircraft never got any fight scenes.

[aerocombatpilot]

I think at this point Macross is such a big franchise that the main pillars of the story (minmei specifically) deserve to have some sort of ending at this point. Just imagine if they had left the Char/Amuro's ambiguous after Zeta Gundam. Sure we see an empty cockpit float by, but they are such great characters that they deserve to have their story told. Plus Imagine the emotion of seeing the OVA titled "A Star Dies, or How I learned to love Pineapple Salad".

That and my dirty secret is I want to see a VF-4 in action. It's a shame that such a good looking aircraft never got any fight scenes.

I Agree completely, there should be some story that officially ends the original characters story. Having them lost in the center of the galaxy is just weak!!