Just finished Macross 7 light spoilers

[Tobi54]

I disagree, best concept ever conceived by japanese animation - EVER!

Dynamite!

LOL

[wolfx]

Macross 7 exists to remind us that no matter what we want to believe, Macross for the most part isn't a serious mecha show.

Abit late but QFT!

[Morpheus]

Well, what is Macross 7 anyway? I'll try to summarize it:

- Mecha action, just the spice for mecha fan

- Music, main ingredient for Macross series

- Love triangle, another main ingredient, but it only give a bitter taste here.

- Space monster, a spice which make some fan goes WTF.

- Sivil and Rex, this one is for desert

[d3v]

Well, what is Macross 7 anyway? I'll try to summarize it:

- Mecha action, just the spice for mecha fan

- Music, main ingredient for Macross series

- Love triangle, another main ingredient, but it only give a bitter taste here.

- Space monster, a spice which make some fan goes WTF.

- Sivil and Rex, this one is for desert

Macross 7 is a good show held back by having to cater to a longer run and a seemingly younger target audience making them put too much focus on the music and weird mecha and not enough on the drama and romance. Of course, you could say that those bits were taken care of by Macross Plus, so it kinda balances out in a way.

Edited July 31, 2008 by d3v

[bzdup]

Woah now, I think the original poster has gotten a little confused about what he was originally trying to say.

I agree with everyone else here that Mecha, Music and Love Triangles are what make any Macross title go round. They arent rehashes, they are the cornerstones of the series.

The way I read the original post however is that the original poster seems to be frustrated by the lack of over-reaching continuity.

I far prefer Macross to Robotech, although I grew up with Robotech, but I can see where the frustration is coming from.

By butchering several series, Robotech had the luxury of making this huge saga where the tales of the original characters were continued far beyond the original source material.

Macross, on the other hand, has never been like that. Each new iteration has been more or less self-contained but refers to a backdrop that is seldom expanded on. Its true that throughout 7 and now Frontier, the writers have put in this vague plot device of a colonization fleet. But why is this necessary? How long does it need to continue? Does the viewer ever SEE any new worlds or people being left on them? No, not really (although in Frontier there is a partly surveyed planet involved in the story, until.....).

I can see how, being a fan of Macross over Robotech, but having grown up with the later, one could be rather....disgruntled by the lack of tangible continuity and purpose when it comes to story.

Frontier is SUCH a good reboot for the franchise though. Its doing really well here so I hope a second season, OVA or theatrical release gets made at some point!

Actually...no, I'm not confused at all about what I originally said. I think most of the responses here started with sheer denial that Macross just rehashes the same themes, aka Love Triangles, Singing as the centerpieces. As the post evolves, all of a sudden, that's ok now!!! Now the posters say, well Bzdup, that's what makes Macross Macross. Wow. Here's the bottom line: Love triangles do NOT and are NOT necessary for a great Macross series. Macross Zero does not have a serious love triangle. Mao's relationship with Shin is completely a joke, she knows Shin loves Sara the entire time, and it is certainly NOT central, and Macross Zero actually rocks [i just saw it again]. Not to mention, singing is NOT central to the Macross Zero series. Sara sings a little bit, but it's mostly about the Birdman etc and the fight for the Birdman.

So I really take it that I brought up a topic that people don't want to see because they are in complete denial of it. Look, Macross 7 and Macross Plus are forumulaic approaches to selling videos. I don't see a whole lot of thought, or effort in either story line, well...enough effort to sell some toys using the Macross names. My frustration, and I apologize for not responding to each post separately, but it's just not worth it, is with the fact that they keep turning up formulaic, non-plot based, "new" ideas that would be completely outshined by simply continuing the original series. But ah...Tochiro. You are correct about one thing: I do want a continuation series. Or at least, a new one that's not a cheesy formulaic remake and stamp it as a "new" series.

[Nexx Stalker]

Actually...no, I'm not confused at all about what I originally said. I think most of the responses here started with sheer denial that Macross just rehashes the same themes, aka Love Triangles, Singing as the centerpieces. As the post evolves, all of a sudden, that's ok now!!! Now the posters say, well Bzdup, that's what makes Macross Macross. Wow. Here's the bottom line: Love triangles do NOT and are NOT necessary for a great Macross series. Macross Zero does not have a serious love triangle. Mao's relationship with Shin is completely a joke, she knows Shin loves Sara the entire time, and it is certainly NOT central, and Macross Zero actually rocks [i just saw it again]. Not to mention, singing is NOT central to the Macross Zero series. Sara sings a little bit, but it's mostly about the Birdman etc and the fight for the Birdman.

So I really take it that I brought up a topic that people don't want to see because they are in complete denial of it. Look, Macross 7 and Macross Plus are forumulaic approaches to selling videos. I don't see a whole lot of thought, or effort in either story line, well...enough effort to sell some toys using the Macross names. My frustration, and I apologize for not responding to each post separately, but it's just not worth it, is with the fact that they keep turning up formulaic, non-plot based, "new" ideas that would be completely outshined by simply continuing the original series. But ah...Tochiro. You are correct about one thing: I do want a continuation series. Or at least, a new one that's not a cheesy formulaic remake and stamp it as a "new" series.

There's Shadow Chronicles waiting for you, then

[wolfx]

I won't call it "central" but more like the music plays a part in Macross' plot, hence more of a plot device when traditionally music is just a background music. And as for love triangles, its a recurring theme. I think we're just arguing semantics here.

I won't agree with you if you say the next Macross series SHOULD NOT have singing and love triangles, if that's what you're saying, bzdup. I'll just say BLASPHEMY!!

[Gubaba]

So I really take it that I brought up a topic that people don't want to see because they are in complete denial of it. Look, Macross 7 and Macross Plus are forumulaic approaches to selling videos. I don't see a whole lot of thought, or effort in either story line, well...enough effort to sell some toys using the Macross names. My frustration, and I apologize for not responding to each post separately, but it's just not worth it, is with the fact that they keep turning up formulaic, non-plot based, "new" ideas that would be completely outshined by simply continuing the original series. But ah...Tochiro. You are correct about one thing: I do want a continuation series. Or at least, a new one that's not a cheesy formulaic remake and stamp it as a "new" series.

Well, if that's what you think, that's fine, and of course you're entitled. But I think you step over the line by saying that the rest of us are "in denial" about how lazy and formulaic Plus and 7 are. We have a difference of opinion. That doesn't mean that either of us in in denial, or that either of us is wrong.

And going to a message board dedicated to a series of shows and saying that the posters simply don't realize that some of the shows suck is pretty insulting.

So stick around and revel in the SDFM discussions, but please don't act superior because I like Plus and you don't. That's just trollish.

[d3v]

Actually...no, I'm not confused at all about what I originally said. I think most of the responses here started with sheer denial that Macross just rehashes the same themes, aka Love Triangles, Singing as the centerpieces. As the post evolves, all of a sudden, that's ok now!!! Now the posters say, well Bzdup, that's what makes Macross Macross. Wow. Here's the bottom line: Love triangles do NOT and are NOT necessary for a great Macross series. Macross Zero does not have a serious love triangle. Mao's relationship with Shin is completely a joke, she knows Shin loves Sara the entire time, and it is certainly NOT central, and Macross Zero actually rocks [i just saw it again]. Not to mention, singing is NOT central to the Macross Zero series. Sara sings a little bit, but it's mostly about the Birdman etc and the fight for the Birdman.

So I really take it that I brought up a topic that people don't want to see because they are in complete denial of it. Look, Macross 7 and Macross Plus are forumulaic approaches to selling videos. I don't see a whole lot of thought, or effort in either story line, well...enough effort to sell some toys using the Macross names. My frustration, and I apologize for not responding to each post separately, but it's just not worth it, is with the fact that they keep turning up formulaic, non-plot based, "new" ideas that would be completely outshined by simply continuing the original series. But ah...Tochiro. You are correct about one thing: I do want a continuation series. Or at least, a new one that's not a cheesy formulaic remake and stamp it as a "new" series.

But Macross was always meant to be a small personal love story with a war/conflict as a background (as stated by the creators themselves). Even Zero, when you peel away all the layers is the story of how Shin ultimately comes to understand Sara. The scene with Shin dropping the all of his weapons is more than just him tricking the AFOS, it represents a further growth in their relationship. Shin is finally able to let go of his "Kadun" which in this case is his inability to trust in anyone else but himself, and give himself to Sara, trusting that she wont shoot him down. This is arguably the most pivotal point of the series as it's here where the earth either survives, or is destroyed by the Bird person.

As for the power of song, Zero actually reiterates a concept introduced in Plus. That song has the power to be both negative and positive. In Plus, we have the opposition of Sharon's songs, which hypnotized people and Myung's "Voices" which in the end, penetrated Sharon's songs and reached Isamu. In Zero, we see that same dichotomy brought out again, this time between "Arkan" and the song of destruction. Litarally singing one can cause the destruction of the earth. We see this again in Frontier, this time with "Aimo" seemingly acting as possibly both good and bad songs (it seems to be a way to communicate with the Vajra and yet can also cause their destruction as seen in episode 16).

As for a new series, what would it be without the romance? A long mecha series about a war between two races - that would simply be Gundam set in the Macross universe. The wars in Macross were always meant to be the background for the story of a group of people who simply happened to be involved in the war.

Meanwhile, for a continuation, the only thing I see that they can do to keep it from a rather boring series of "Hikaru flies out to kill some aliens every week" kinda thing would be to make it a background for Hikaru and Misa's faliling marriage with Minmei somehow getting involved while hurting Miku in the process which, frankly wold be simply dragging the character through the mud.

[RedWolf]

Thread hijack.

Never played VFX but can't help notice a certain Bridge Bunny in the credits.

Miho Miho

If I remember the timeline right VFX occurs around the same year as Macross Dynamite 7.

So she got transfered?

And LOL Grace could have been a former Milky Doll.

[Shun]

I won't call it "central" but more like the music plays a part in Macross' plot, hence more of a plot device when traditionally music is just a background music. And as for love triangles, its a recurring theme. I think we're just arguing semantics here.

I won't agree with you if you say the next Macross series SHOULD NOT have singing and love triangles, if that's what you're saying, bzdup. I'll just say BLASPHEMY!!

its well-known (hmmm i guess not that well-known ) and its even stated clearly by the producers that Macross is always about fighter planes, music and love triangles. these are the basic elements to the series.

who knows, next thing TS may say take the fighter planes out of Macross

[DestroidDefender]

who knows, next thing TS may say take the fighter planes out of Macross

I'd love a Macross OVA about Love Triangles. Rock & Roll and Destroids!

[Shun]

I'd love a Macross OVA about Love Triangles. Rock & Roll and Destroids!

ok you win...

provided they must have Monster in it! and lots of it!

[Gubaba]

I'd love a Macross OVA about Love Triangles. Rock & Roll and Destroids!

I wrote about something like this before..."Macross: the 08th Destroid Defender Team." Set during Space War I, it would be a 13-part OVA. It would start with 145 main characters, and each and every episode, twelve of them would get shot, blown up, stomped, crushed, or mangled, until there was only one left. Then, in the final episode, as Bodolzaa's fleet encircles earth, he would receive the brand-spanking-new Orguss Valkyrie, go out to defend the Macross, and get blown up.

[Protoculture]

I was a huge Robotech fan growing up, and it will always have a place in my heart for leading me to Macross and other things in my life but; but I am also aware of the limits that Robotech has. HG was never that inventive or creative and did fuel all their stories off the works of other people and shows. Macross has always pressed forward and trying newer things, and going into different directions. Back in the day when all i knew was Robotech my friends and all laid down the basic laws laid within that show, transforming mechs, music, and love triangles. Now to say you want to get rid of those then the show is no longer Macross, and even barely Robotech because if I remember correctly every part of Robotech had those elements too so you basically want to do away with the things that make the show great from both ends. Jus thought i would point that out for ya

I grew up in Malaysia watching Malay-dubbed SDF: Macross & GC Mospeada back in late 1980s before ROBOTECH ever got an airtime. After watching the original series, it took a private TV station in Malaysia in aerly 1990s to air 85 ROBOTECH series plus RT II: Sentinel Movie in which I basked on Macross & Mospeada nostalgic lovefest. It took me for while until I finally distinguish & appreciate the differences between both franchise, & I have to credit ROBOTECH for re-kickstarting my interest in Macross & egged me to acquire & get Macross DYRL, SDF: Macross, Flashback 2012, Macross II, Macross Plus, Macross 7 (series, Dynamite OAVs, Movie) & Macross Zero. But I still remain loyal to ROBOTECH-verse, which has become equally important next to my beloved Macross franchise, so much so I even have an entire ROBOTECH's McKinney novelizations & finally, the RT: The Shadow Chronicles. Athough, truth to be told. I buy RTSC actually to get a fix to my Mospeada cravings (thanks to previous reruns back in 2001 / 2002).

Sure, a lotta you guys feels vindicated by HG, Macek, Yune or ROBOTECH in general ... but for me, its nothing worth revisiting. I enjoy my anime, both ROBOTECH & MACROSS, as those two series actually compels me to even seek out SDC Orguss. For BG vs Tatsunoko vs HG (& perhaps, WB) .... its corporate stuff most anime fans don't give a damn. In an era where we could easily bypassed international borders & downloaded an entire English-subbed Macross series, OAVs & movies for free with no restriction whatsoever coupled with hassle free online anime sites offereing exported Macross anime collections, plus with the ever industrious Hong Kong illegal DVD pirates, it is no longer a luxury to become all exclusive anime otaku when one can become for free.

Well, back to topic at hand, Macross 7 TOTALLY ROCKS! SIVIL IS ONE SEXY & HOTTIE BADDIE!

BOMBAAAAAA!

[Shun]

hey PC bud, can help me get some dvds, just across the causeway

[Protoculture]

hey PC bud, can help me get some dvds, just across the causeway

Ahhh the Southern neighbor .... I get my collection from local anime stores. My best advice, get your copies from Hong Kong anime sites.

[Morpheus]

I wrote about something like this before..."Macross: the 08th Destroid Defender Team." Set during Space War I, it would be a 13-part OVA. It would start with 145 main characters, and each and every episode, twelve of them would get shot, blown up, stomped, crushed, or mangled, until there was only one left. Then, in the final episode, as Bodolzaa's fleet encircles earth, he would receive the brand-spanking-new Orguss Valkyrie, go out to defend the Macross, and get blown up.

Are you talking about "Band of Destroids"?

[RedWolf]

Something I've noticed with Mylene and Emilia.

They don't have the same ill effects as with pure blooded Zentradi when faced with a Protodevlin.

Now we assumed that Zentradi descent have a race memory reaction with Protodevlin.

Being irrational and violent but with Mylene and Emilia no such reaction. (Both encountered Gavil and Gravil)

It could be that Zentradi hybrids do not have this genetic flaw thus why the Protoculture on Lux advocated mixing of blood between races.

Those Zentradi that went berserk because of Sivil in City 7 are therefore pure blooded Zentradi children.

Well either that or only Meltran hybrids are immune. Zentran hybrids are suseptible to Protodevlin presence. (Men being hot blooded and all.)

[badboy00z]

The thing that annoyed me more than Basara is that the enemy is always attacking the fleet. Gets annoying real fast when they attack 10 times in a day.

[bzdup]

The thing that annoyed me more than Basara is that the enemy is always attacking the fleet. Gets annoying real fast when they attack 10 times in a day.

I mean, it is a "cute" series. When I watch certain episodes there are countless commecials to buy Mylene's/Firebomber's albums. I think this series was really intended for a younger crowd. Maybe I'm wrong? I don't know. In the end, I really think there is a very "voltron" aka episodic feel to this series. They're perpetual enemy is gepelnitch and his monsters, and every time things start to get dangerous, here comes Basara [who is pretty much invincible] to save the day. Kind of like Voltron: they fight monsters, then they form the voltron, then they start to lose and then Voltron does his pose, with the sword then Voltron wins. Or like Hulk Hogan's wrestling matches in the 80's he starts out fast, then starts to lose, then comes back to win.

The original Macross was head and shoulders superior to Seven, and I would have to say it probably edges Seven out in ANIMATION. That's just pathetic. Zero and Plus really aren't long enough to get a full length "saga" type story in.

Anyways, sorry to be so negative!!! I just started watching Frontier. OMG it ROCKS!!!!! THAT'S a macross series for you. Seven was child's play. I think the Macross creators caught some flack for Seven and have REALLY made up for it with Frontier. Well after the first episode that is

Edited August 5, 2008 by bzdup

[Radd]

Animation! Does SDF:M beat M7 in terms of animation? Well, yes and no. There were certainly moments, and entire episodes, where the animation in SDF:M was great. However, there was at least an equal number of episodes where the animation was absolute garbage. Meanwhile, outside of an unaired episode and a theatrical short, M7 had no really great animation moments or episodes, but on the other hand it didn't have any dips in quality that are really comparable to those found in SDF:M.

It would be more accurate to say that while SDF:M had some great animation at times, it had some pretty awful animation at times too, whereas Macross 7 is much more consistent in its animation, never truly amazing, but never really scraping rock bottom like SDF:M was known to do.

I do wish that the reused footage in M7 was of a higher quality. I loved the Battle 7 transformation, but the fighter launching sequences and the reused battle footage was really disappointing and bland.

[bzdup]

Animation! Does SDF:M beat M7 in terms of animation? Well, yes and no. There were certainly moments, and entire episodes, where the animation in SDF:M was great. However, there was at least an equal number of episodes where the animation was absolute garbage. Meanwhile, outside of an unaired episode and a theatrical short, M7 had no really great animation moments or episodes, but on the other hand it didn't have any dips in quality that are really comparable to those found in SDF:M.

It would be more accurate to say that while SDF:M had some great animation at times, it had some pretty awful animation at times too, whereas Macross 7 is much more consistent in its animation, never truly amazing, but never really scraping rock bottom like SDF:M was known to do.

I do wish that the reused footage in M7 was of a higher quality. I loved the Battle 7 transformation, but the fighter launching sequences and the reused battle footage was really disappointing and bland.

I can agree with that. Remember Max and Miria's first date/fight scene in the original ? HORRIBLE!!! But the war with the Zentraedi Battlefront was awesome. And M7 does kind of suck the entire way through. The reason I think SDFM out edges M7 is that M7 is 20 years newer? I guess animation technology really doesn'tn change? I really don't know. But MACROSS FRONTIER ROCKS!

[Radd]

I suspect it's more a matter of budget than technology. Frontier probably has a significantly higher per-episode budget than SDF:M or Macross 7, and it definitely has better directing.

Also, Macross 7 is only about 12 years newer than SDF:M. Frontier is 26 years newer than SDF:M, so 14 years newer than Macross 7.

Looking at Macross 7 and other anime from around 94, Macross 7 isn't terrible, though it is very average. Not a very exciting series, visually. Direction and resource management can play heavily into that. Evangelion is from around that time, and has arguably worse animation. Entire scenes of nothing but still frames and pans. Sometimes not even the pans. But some good directing and clever use of animation makes it seem a whole lot better to most people. It comes off "artistic" rather than "low budget".

Frontier is interesting, looking at the technical side of the animation. Like SDF:M, the 2D animation is very inconsistent. However, it is often covered up with effects to hide that fact. Also, the backgrounds are gorgeous, much higher than average quality. The CG is top notch for an animated tv series, the best I've probably seen. An incredibly well put together production.