Macross Frontier Episode 16 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Master Dex]

Wonder what book is all about.

The book is a monthly subscription to Train Otaku Life, the biggest resource for all your Train collecting needs.

Edited July 26, 2008 by Master Dex

[condiment king]

My biggest question about the episode is who is flying the other 2 VF27s??? I thought that you needed to be a cyborg to handle the forces from the movement to pilot them. So are there more Brera clones or survivors from Galaxy we dont know about???

[Gubaba]

Well, another excellent episode !

Unfortunately Mr Bilrer remains as myterious as ever hummf. I assume we haven't seen the whole of his conversation with Alto.

In any case that Ranka Attack was great... the Aimo remix is interesting... but most importantly it feels really gloomy, as if it's bringing with it a foreboding sense off doom.

I mean.... in a way the episodes really feels "off". The is classic Macross... the Ranka attack works, the Vajra can be controlled and beaten... Ranka become the new shining star of hope, the new Minmary (or the new Basara yeah, I love you Bobby )... but rather than the joyful sens of hope and rejoincind you should sense in thes circunstances.... all that's left is a real uneasyness... it just feels... wrong.

Other than that the mecha action is still the best ever.

And I really love May'n new ending song

Next please !

-Sergorn

Yeah...as I said before, I never knew Vajra hunting could be so cheerless and dispiriting, or that "Aimo" could be so cold and off-putting. It's pretty sad to see the heroes turn into the bad guys, with no good guys in sight.

Let's hope Skull Squadron wises up soon (as I'm sure they will).

Regardless, good episode. Not the most pleasant or fun, but definitely good.

[sketchley]

Possibly. For me, the scene was loaded with references (tea cup, Galaxy Express 999, etc.).

EDIT: to clarify - in response to the post with the pictures of the tea cup.

Edited July 26, 2008 by sketchley

[Master Dex]

My biggest question about the episode is who is flying the other 2 VF27s??? I thought that you needed to be a cyborg to handle the forces from the movement to pilot them. So are there more Brera clones or survivors from Galaxy we dont know about???

They were seen in ep.7 as well. I just assumed other pilots from Galaxy who are probably also cybernetically augmented.

[RedWolf]

My biggest question about the episode is who is flying the other 2 VF27s??? I thought that you needed to be a cyborg to handle the forces from the movement to pilot them. So are there more Brera clones or survivors from Galaxy we dont know about???

Survivors? Pfft~

Galaxy is fine and dandy without the damage seen in their distress message.

I'm beginning to think those two are drones much like Luca's ghosts.

There have been drone VF's before like the modified VF-11 in Macross Plus and the Neo Glaug.

[Rookie_One]

hmm.... look like Leon is indirectly manipuling the president glass (by only giving him part of the information)

while grace is directly manipulating both of them (difference : direct manipulation include lies, that and her behavior)

Edited July 26, 2008 by Rookie_One

[Xeros]

Well, this episode left more questions again, but the rare thing is that the questions now lies in the good boys side.

Is obvious that Mr. Bilra has a long conversation with Alto-hime, and he asked for absolute reserve on that, since the bridge bunnies have no idea why they are collecting vajra corpses, and Mikhail making questions about it. All in all, that must be pretty important if Alto-hime is doing it and keeps the secret

Apparently Ranka did not have another option that to leave Elmo, but this one believes that she leave him without any reason. And Brera's work is to separate it from her friends and Alto-hime, bad thing to do if the R-Attack is based on emotions.

While Sheryl complains that nobody visits her, Her scape of the hostital seems to me an excuse for let Alto to notice the fold quartz in the earring and he could tie the loose ends on Grace and Galaxy's true intentions.

The Ranka attack is no surprise at all, the results was so obvious, but the new version of Aimo is at least weird, almost like to give the impression of the whole manipulation to which Ranka and the Vajra are being submitted

Another thing that seems to me to be important to stand out, is what Brera says with regard to if he intervenes on the battle there would be no experiment, maybe he with his harmonica are capable to do the same, who knows.

Now the wait for a potential pineapple salad has begun xD

[condiment king]

Another thing that seems to me to be important to stand out, is what Brera says with regard to if he intervenes on the battle there would be no experiment, maybe he with his harmonica are capable to do the same, who knows.

the whole reason why he said that is because in a previous episode he blew up a whole hive without really breaking a sweat. His gun is like a mini macross cannon when charged. Basically his piloting and craft are unmatched by the Vajra so it would negate the purpose of the experiment. Overall, this is to help the people that are not as good of a pilot/ship.

[RedWolf]

Nah it's just a normal Zentradi tech beam weapon seen on ships not a Macross canon.

He hit the Guantanamo's reactor.

[Major Focker]

I must say this episode has some FANTASTIC music, especially around the 21:00 mark. This show is unlike I've seen before. Filled with heart, soul and the epic visuals to boot. Also have a new-found respect for the VF-27. That thing just kicks ass. XD

yeah, that gave me goosebumps, like back at the Birdman premiere.

Brera is just so cool in this episode. with nifty lines at that.

hmm.. an entire ED dedicated to Sheryl? is that a deathflag or a sign of a comeback?

Ozma, Brera, Klan, Sheryl. eenie, meenie, minee, moe. the only reason i don't want them to off ozma is because it's too obvious.

[junior]

I'm beginning to think those two are drones much like Luca's ghosts.

There have been drone VF's before like the modified VF-11 in Macross Plus and the Neo Glaug.

Actually, one of them has a single line of dialogue during the scene in the screengrab. Don't have a name yet, and no idea what the pilot looks like, but it sounds as if one of Brera's wingmen is a woman.

[d3v]

Actually, one of them has a single line of dialogue during the scene in the screengrab. Don't have a name yet, and no idea what the pilot looks like, but it sounds as if one of Brera's wingmen is a woman.

Wasn't that the pilot of the cannon fodder VF-25?

Edited July 26, 2008 by d3v

[sucker4meltrans]

around 15:10 you can see the nose art on canalia's Monster it appears a half naked ranka has been put on it. look she doesn't have a bottom to that bikini she is wearing on! i think its odd the nose art of a monster that is piloted by a woman would have a lolicon image of ranka on it.

Edited July 26, 2008 by sucker4meltrans

[Beltane70]

I'm I actually the minority in liking the new, eerie version of Aimo?

[Mr March]

Not at all. It's good stuff and definitely a welcome change. I hope they keep mixing it up because so far the sound track is pretty good for an anime.

[d3v]

around 15:10 you can see the nose art on canalia's Monster it appears a half naked ranka has been put on it. look she doesn't have a bottom to that bikini she is wearing on! i think its odd the nose art of a monster that is piloted by a woman would have a lolicon image of ranka on it.

Yes at the same time, it still has her backpack! I'm getting the feeling that our Super Dimension Cinderella is a different kind of FAST pack, she wears the valk on her back instead of vice versa.

@Mr. March

Actually, I like the new version because it feels all wrong and ominous.

Edited July 26, 2008 by d3v

[sdf2501]

So, I'm guessing the entire point of collecting Vajra is to harvest fold quartz?

Anyways, love the new ending, and enjoyed this episode as well. Based on the preview last week with a grey-skinned, sick-looking Sheryl, I thought that she was going to kick the bucket, and when she started talking about "no, I don't want to go to a hospital or my hotel" when watching the raw, I honestly thought that she'd be the one eating Pineapple Salad at Alto's place.

Anyways, have given up speculating, and am just sitting back and really enjoying the ride.

Edit: Should say that I haven't seen the sub yet, so some of my details might be wrong. Watching the sub now.

Edited July 26, 2008 by sdf2501

[Keith]

You know, I think I'll take the off the wall gamble, and say I think Brera is the one who will die in the next episode. "Bye Bye Sister" indeed.

[openget]

yeah, that gave me goosebumps, like back at the Birdman premiere.

Brera is just so cool in this episode. with nifty lines at that.

hmm.. an entire ED dedicated to Sheryl? is that a deathflag or a sign of a comeback?

Ozma, Brera, Klan, Sheryl. eenie, meenie, minee, moe. the only reason i don't want them to off ozma is because it's too obvious.

klan can't die, Micheal has to get macronized and fight alongside her in his blue q-rau!!

[junior]

Wasn't that the pilot of the cannon fodder VF-25?

It could be the same voice. They are similar. But since we only see the VF-25 at the start of the episode (and specifically not when that screen grab with Antares Squadron takes place), I personally doubt it. Has anyone checked the list of characters in the VA credits yet?

You know, I think I'll take the off the wall gamble, and say I think Brera is the one who will die in the next episode. "Bye Bye Sister" indeed.

After watching the episode preview at the end of 16, I'm inclined to believe that the title is a reference to Ozma deciding that he's not able to watch after Ranka anymore. I believe the title is a reference to that. He's spent a good portion of his life looking after her and protecting her. And why is he not able to look after her anymore? She's growing up. She's begun her career. She's no longer a little girl.

And the NUNS is pushing him aside (and therefore more or less taking things out of his hands).

The title is Ozma's acknowledgement that it's time to start letting Ranka look after herself.

hmm.. an entire ED dedicated to Sheryl? is that a deathflag or a sign of a comeback?

I'm fully confident that she's coming back. You don't kill off one of the three members of the love triangle that the series is based around when the series is only 2/3 done.

But that doesn't mean that you can't put her through Hell... And I think things are going to get worse for Sheryl before they start to get better...

At the moment, I'm guessing that the bottom will be reached in episode 18, and things will start to get better for her after that.

And no, I don't have any particularly substantive reason to base that on... Just a gut feeling.

There's one thing that bugged me about this episode. We see the scene at the beginning with Alto fighting the Vajra accompanied by the VF-25 extra (I'm reluctant to call it cannon-fodder, since it IS a VF-25 after all...). But there's no sense of when he's fighting in relation to anything else that happens in the episode. The scene just kind of seems to be "there" without really fitting in well with the continuity of the rest of the episode.

[tankf77]

So, I'm guessing the entire point of collecting Vajra is to harvest fold quartz?

Anyways, love the new ending, and enjoyed this episode as well. Based on the preview last week with a grey-skinned, sick-looking Sheryl, I thought that she was going to kick the bucket, and when she started talking about "no, I don't want to go to a hospital or my hotel" when watching the raw, I honestly thought that she'd be the one eating Pineapple Salad at Alto's place.

Anyways, have given up speculating, and am just sitting back and really enjoying the ride.

Edit: Should say that I haven't seen the sub yet, so some of my details might be wrong. Watching the sub now.

I have a plausible hypothesis that even Sheryl's singing may invoke some response to the Vajra. Why? The reason lies with the fold quartz, which Sheryl wore and a few implanted into Ranka. The fold quartz is able to transmit fold waves, hence singing with the right emotion index may disrupt Vajra's ability to communicate with the hive.

And yes, I think Mr Bilrer told much much more to Alto that we as viewers do not have the purview of their full conversation YET. I mean, look at his response towards Brera in school, even his friends find him weird.

[dreamweaver13]

ok, haven't backread yet, just watched the sub. just want to say it's awesome. new End song for the win!! i like it. and my sympathy is with sheryl and the vajra. poor poor vajra. and sheryl. she'll fight back!

and what's with alto pushing her head into the wall, wtf? well, ok, she did get a punch in... and a few slaps, and a.. kick?? You Don't Mess with the Sheryl! hehe.

[DeeBot]

Conspiracy theory #... oh, s**** it.

Ozma pretends to die in the next episode, so he can come back from the dead at the finale and unveil Leon's treachery with the help of Misa... err, Cathy, who has been working to gather evidence from the inside. Then the two of them elope, while Leon blows his brains out.

Oh, and Grace gets away scot free.

[junior]

I mean, look at his response towards Brera in school, even his friends find him weird.

I would imagine that it's because Brera's tried to kill him a few times by now, and interfered in otherwise straightforward SMS operations. And then suddenly he swoops in, grabs Ranka from the Vajra after Alto clears the way, and gets treated as a hero. And he gets assigned as bodyguard to one of Alto's friends (i.e. Ranka).

Would YOU trust the guy?

Unfortunately, without some handy asteroids to blow up and confuse the cyborg, Alto currently appears to be outclassed.

and what's with alto pushing her head into the wall,

He's pushing her back out of sight so that Cathy doesn't see her on the monitor. You're not supposed to sneak civilians onto a military warship without permission from the captain (which generally doesn't include taking them to your private quarters). And if it were known that Sheryl were in his room (as will almost certainly be the case after this episode...), then he'd attract all the wrong kinds of attention from everyone who found out.

[Enfer]

I think Brera is Ranka's real brother and badly hurt in the accident of Macross Global, at that time he was saved and controlled by Galaxy or Grace, change most of his body into machine and lost his memory.

Can't wait Brera and Ranka call to rememberance their childhood, but worried about what Grace will done if her knew Brera's "betray".

Maybe next episode will tell us sth important about chibi Ranka, and, DON'T KILL OZMA PLEASE!!!

[Kamorigis]

It has occurred to me that Sheryl may be in the best place to relapse, and receive treatment, free (hopefully) of Grace's influence.

[RedWolf]

It has occurred to me that Sheryl may be in the best place to relapse, and receive treatment, free (hopefully) of Grace's influence.

Not to mention get her blood examined.

Something tells me Leon's reports on Ranka's blood turning negative has Bilrer's hands on it.

Canaria the only other doctor to examine Ranka may spot something.

[Venom]

I really liked this episode. Altough i don't like to happen, but i strongly think Ozma will die - Focker style, i guess. Damn, i'd really like to see an Ozma-Cathy duo And i really start to like the Alto-Sheryl pairing. You may throw stones at me, but Ranka started to become a puppet This Brera guy is okay for a cyborg, but that forced coolism he shows..brrrr....

I wonder where will the story develop. It's clear that they based all on this on the Minmay-Attack idea, just put it on a more advanced level : hyperspace fold theory???? So Ranka is an alien? (I bet Minmay couldn't "sing" fold waves...) Who knows...

And for the style: VF-25 FTW!!! Antares 1.. blah... maybe they read the "Day of the Cheetah" :)

[magnuskn]

So, I'm guessing the entire point of collecting Vajra is to harvest fold quartz?

Actually, I think it may well be that they are biomass which can be re-used for Frontier. After the big Vajra attack, lot of water, air and other biomass was lost, as you can see if you re-watch the scene with the president and Leon in the presidents office from last episode.

[Final Vegeta]

Actually, one of them has a single line of dialogue during the scene in the screengrab. Don't have a name yet, and no idea what the pilot looks like, but it sounds as if one of Brera's wingmen is a woman.

I didn't check the credits, but the voice looks a bit like Cathy's.

It would be weird if there was no VA available for Raramia but there was one for Cannon Fodder pilots

FV

[Final Vegeta]

Actually, I think it may well be that they are biomass which can be re-used for Frontier. After the big Vajra attack, lot of water, air and other biomass was lost, as you can see if you re-watch the scene with the president and Leon in the presidents office from last episode.

There are cargoes for that. I agree with Vajra's Fold Quartz. Grace's extermination plan is therefore contrasting with Bilrer's dream.

FV

[sdf2501]

Actually, I think it may well be that they are biomass which can be re-used for Frontier. After the big Vajra attack, lot of water, air and other biomass was lost, as you can see if you re-watch the scene with the president and Leon in the presidents office from last episode.

Yeah, but didn't that Queen-like Vajra from Memory of Global have those purple crystals sticking out of her stomach? I'd like to think that that's where the crystals come from, but the real problem is having to fight all the army Vajra in order to get to the Queen.

I wouldn't be surprised if this entire "war" was about who would get first rights to the Vajra as a resource and their abilities to bust through fold distortions. Sounds very much like Capitalism, and we all know that the Kawamori likes to work in environmentally friendly themes into some of his work.

Would be ironic if Richard were the true bad guy, willing to do whatever it took to achieve his dream of instantaneous travel. Or maybe he's the good guy in that he isn't (as opposed to Grace), and that's what makes him different than the people on Galaxy.

[RedWolf]

I wonder where will the story develop. It's clear that they based all on this on the Minmay-Attack idea, just put it on a more advanced level : hyperspace fold theory???? So Ranka is an alien? (I bet Minmay couldn't "sing" fold waves...) Who knows...

As Basara said he'll make the mountain move the galaxy even.

In Macross 7 The Galaxy is Calling Me, Emilia Jenius' singing reached Macross 7 lightyears from another planet and made the sunflowers move.

Even Val Elna or Space Whales who are the only other lifeforms known to naturally space fold is affected by song. Giving them energy.

It is said that Space Whale organics can make more efficient fold engines. That's why pirates want them.

[Radd]

I felt really bad by the end of this episode, not in the "this is a bad episode" way, far from it, but well...that fight at the end felt more genocide in action than a battle. I'm starting to wonder if it's not pure xenophobia that is driving those who are pushing this war. Maybe a bit of so-called "manifest destiny" in conquering all of space under the banner of Protoculture derived species, while wiping out the Vajra for being "too alien" to coexist with?

Of course, SDF2501 has a point. Maybe that's the idea behind the war, make the Vajra into the mindless killing machines they need to be, at least as far as popular opinion goes. Manufactured xenophobia. If people see them as an alien race, yet one which humanity can co-exist with, perhaps even communicate with, then you can't just use them as a resource. That would, afterall, be inhumane. Of course, if the Vajra are perceived as vicious killers, with no capabilities of higher thought and reasoning, then you can slaughter them as needed, and use them to your own ends, while being hailed as heroes and protectors.

However things unfold, I'm eager to see where all this is going.

Edited July 26, 2008 by Radd