Graham reviews the new Yamato 1/60 VF-1

[nemesis_trooper]

Enough of the 1/48's.

Yamato needs stay with the 1/60's and stick with it.

Ewww the neck bothers me too! sigh was so psyched up on this release...

[Scream Man]

Thing is---there's like 3 people on MW that have one, and we already have 2 parts that broke. That's not a good sign. Normally it takes a week or two with dozens of people owning them before we get problem reports.

No we don't. Graham has 2 that are fine, Swoosh's is fine. Thats 3 ok. Alex has one that broke. So thats 3 to 1 so far. the one on 4chan i think is a handling error; I was pleased that the plane held up when people handled it at that hobby show a few weeks back. If it can handle random eople fiddling with it all day, it should handle normal play.

Also keep in mind that sometimes random toys DO break. I have had all sorts of toys come with glued joints that snapped or various other problems. Hell, I have had 2 Gundam kits so far with a piece missing! IOt happens. It sucks, you hope it wont happen to you, but it hapopens.

Its too early to start worrying yet.

[chowyunskinny]

You know, makes me wonder if it's the factories being shady.

Maybe they are on good behavior when Yamato is at the facility, and give them the best specimens for "pre-production" samples.

Then after Yamato leaves, they cut corners and use cheaper materials.

You gotta wonder especially hearing how some of these factories leak product out the back door and let stuff fall off trucks.

Edited July 22, 2008 by chowyunskinny

[Swoosh]

many active member in toysdaily forum bought it, no breakage or part missing reported so far...

but I will pay more attention to the shoulder part now...

[Ignacio Ocamica]

No we don't. Graham has 2 that are fine, Swoosh's is fine. Thats 3 ok. Alex has one that broke. So thats 3 to 1 so far. the one on 4chan i think is a handling error; I was pleased that the plane held up when people handled it at that hobby show a few weeks back. If it can handle random eople fiddling with it all day, it should handle normal play.

Also keep in mind that sometimes random toys DO break. I have had all sorts of toys come with glued joints that snapped or various other problems. Hell, I have had 2 Gundam kits so far with a piece missing! IOt happens. It sucks, you hope it wont happen to you, but it hapopens.

Its too early to start worrying yet.

Bad news tend to spread very quickly. Two pages back this toy was the "end of all be", now it's a piece of s h i t

Like you said, it's to early to start worrying.

[Renato]

Stop buying gray market toys if you don't want this to happen.

Right.. That's not exactly the most constructive thing I've ever read.

[Sumdumgai]

Best bet is to wait and see. Instantly declaring that the line has had a VF-0 rate of failure because of a few well publicized cases of breakage is going a bit to extremes. If over time there is an outbreak of broken parts, then I'll start screaming with the rest of you.

Addition: Oh crap, I noticed that it has that stupid peg system from the 1/48 for where the legs go into the nose area for battroid. I thought it was going to have it be like the VF-0. Looks like I'll be needing tweezers for when I get the eventual VF-1A DYRL Max.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Sumdumgai

[Valkyrie addict]

guess we'll have to wait then, besides, this is Macrossworld, there's always something to complain about, since the toy was perfect a few days ago, people complain about the neck (which I still don't see what's the fuzz about), and now the case shown in 4chan, I almost went and preorder this but I really suffered with the YF-19 and VF-0S and learn my lesson, I really want this toy so I hope it was only an isolated case, the VF-1 been done to death and it would be very incompetent of Yamato to screw up a design they known for more than a decade

Edited July 23, 2008 by Valkyrie addict

[eugimon]

no no, end of the world! doom, thousand eyes, epa epa!

[Swoosh]

Addition: Oh crap, I noticed that it has that stupid peg system from the 1/48 for where the legs go into the nose area for battroid. I thought it was going to have it be like the VF-0. Looks like I'll be needing tweezers for when I get the eventual VF-1A DYRL Max.

No, you don't a tweezers as long as there are some gravity around you....

[Alex]

There are a lot of good points being made here. We only have two reports of broken pieces and one report of missing pieces ( why do two of those have to fall on me?! I obviously don't give enough to charity)

Not quite a pandemic yet.

[Valkyrie addict]

yeah, it's suck that one (you), has to get the damn lemon...so, did you finally contacted Yamato or the store you bought it to get a refund??

[Alex]

yeah, it's suck that one (you), has to get the damn lemon...so, did you finally contacted Yamato or the store you bought it to get a refund??

Won't get the chance to get to Akiba until Friday. To be honest, I think I over-reacted yesterday. With only three problems total with this line, I might just be happy with a replacement. I love the vf-1 and I was never quite happy with the 1/48. And the 1/60 IS a great toy in all other respects. Flip-flop.

BTW, why no gun-strap? Mine has the holes but no strap.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Alex

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

There are a lot of good points being made here. We only have two reports of broken pieces and one report of missing pieces ( why do two of those have to fall on me?! I obviously don't give enough to charity)

Not quite a pandemic yet.

Can you give us any tips on preventing the breakages that happened on yours? Also is the shoulder area something to worry about, from what you can see?

BTW, why no gun-strap? Mine has the holes but no strap.

The strap was a PITA to secure on the 1/48, so I could do without it.

[Alex]

Can you give us any tips on preventing the breakages that happened on yours? Also is the shoulder area something to worry about, from what you can see?

.

The strap was a PITA to secure on the 1/48, so I could do without it.

Would have been nice if they had redesigned the strap. Adds a little bit of extra detail to the whole toy.

Shoulders seem fine to me.

And to be honest, I can't figure out how the door was being stressed or why the hip bars kept getting stuck in the nose-cone. Sorry.

And the sheen that they have given the canopy is really quite nice in the flesh. Catches the light perfectly.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Alex

[vanpang]

Won't get the chance to get to Akiba until Friday. To be honest, I think I over-reacted yesterday. With only three problems total with this line, I might just be happy with a replacement. I love the vf-1 and I was never quite happy with the 1/48. And the 1/60 IS a great toy in all other respects. Flip-flop.

BTW, why no gun-strap? Mine has the holes but no strap.

i am glad you decide to get a replacement, let us know whether you encounter any further probs. i be getting mine soon, can't wait for it

[recon]

Got mine on monday, fiddle around with it. Seems to be there are no problems with the hip bars neither the shoulders. No missing head either. Guess the case with 4chan, the shoulder joint may have already suffered a hairline crack due to improper methods applied during assembly (under paid production workers in china), thus leading to the breakage upon some force applied on it.

Overall its a beautiful toy to have, displayed along side with the YF19, YF21 VF0 and SV51

[wolfx]

Well...i gave in to the yamato gods. I knew i said i wouldn't get one...and i did.....and what more in a foreign country. Now i have to think of how i'm gonna try to sneak this into the plane home together with a gokin tachikoma.

I'll give a very brief summary.

cons:

1.) My left shoulder pads came off the shoulders and split out of the box. The pegs are still there so it wasn't a break, but its still loose. Nothing a little super glue won't solve.

2.) I don't like the new shoulder articulation. It feels abit more restrictive especially in gerwalk mode where it presses against the wing unless you move the shoulderpads in such a way where it won't touch the wings, hence limiting the pose. Also it feels kinda flimsy where it connects to the armpit despite better reach in front of the battroid's chest. Might break if you're not careful. (EDIT: Oh crap saw the pic 2 pages back....it DOES break....oh gawd)

3.) Visor looks like black in normal lighting. They coated too much green/reflective coat on my visor so its really dark. I can only see the green if i shine a light through one side of the visor.

4.) Big gaping hole behind battroid's head. No cover piece provided like the 1/48's fastpack set.

5.) Fastpack connection although gives a firm grip on to the backpack, is not very pleasing aesthetically.

6.) Same old swingbar connection to nosecone, and abit hard to get it into place as well. Was expecting it to be like VF-0's.

7.) Gunpod feels too small. Inaccurate to lineart. Feels like a carbine rather than the assault rifle size it should be.

8.) No stand included.

Pros:

1.) Small, cheap, and solid. Parts lock very snugly and it really feels like Yamato's 1st play-worthy macross toy. Kyunnn kyunnn~

2.) Tampo prints...wheee....though i wished they tampo-ed the damn NO STEPs. Oh well...can't ask for everything eh?

3.) Pilot fits perfectly into cockpit. No squishing required!

4.) Joints are all tight. Gerwalk mode is tight as well. Not like the travesty which was the VF-0.

5.) Articulation doesn't seem like its as improved as they would like you to believe....but i guess its good. I'm still trying to make a Hikaru vs Bodolza pose but can't seem to be able to since the gunpod is small.

6.) Missiles fit tightly under wing.

7.) Hands aren't chickenny anymore. I like em.

8.) The "elongated neck" doesn't exist like they did in the photos. Looks ok in person. Perhaps Graham mistransformed his or the angle?

9.) Leg fastpacks have magnets and also click nicely into place. Very snug.

Generally, my opinion is this is the VF-1 toy that Yamato should've came out with since 1990. What took them so fracking long? If they did, we might have the air instakes that actually open and close perfectly by now rather than removing a whole solid piece. Or even wings that telescope into the backpack for better articulation.

Edited July 23, 2008 by wolfx

[Ignacio Ocamica]

My order from Over Drive shipped today!!!

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

That's not the photo angle, the chest plate is several mm higher in one than the other.

That's just like the banpresto valks, haha. You can slide the chest plate up or squeeze down low enough that you can see the base that the head turret sits on. Doesn't seem all that bad to me now.

VF-1 is iconic. I can't believe yamato didn't make 100% sure this thing was able to take regular handling. sigh.. maybe it's bandai's turn to do the vf-1? If only they didn't just keep re-releasing the old chunky munky.

Please don't screw up the vf-11..

Please don't screw up the vf-11..

Please don't screw up the vf-11..

Please don't screw up the vf-11..

Please don't screw up the vf-11..

Please don't screw up the vf-11..

I just got this idea: This must be punishment from the gods for yamato not including the sideparts. Yeah that must be it. Include the sideparts! I'd rather that then have the gimmick of being able to remove the fuselage of the plane just so you can clip it to the arm, any day. (not that I don't appreciate the effort put into it of course)

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

2.) I don't like the new shoulder articulation. It feels abit more restrictive especially in gerwalk mode where it presses against the wing unless you move the shoulderpads in such a way where it won't touch the wings, hence limiting the pose. Also it feels kinda flimsy where it connects to the armpit despite better reach in front of the battroid's chest. Might break if you're not careful. (EDIT: Oh crap saw the pic 2 pages back....it DOES break....oh gawd)

Can you elaborate? First, how is the new shoulder articulation different than the 1/48? I noticed how the shoulders do look different but I have yet to handle the toy, so I don't know the exact differences. Secondly, how do you prevent breaking the arm? Is the ball joint stem itself the flimsy part, or the whole connection with the metal pin inserted, as shown 2 pages back?

[Valkyrie addict]

the sideparts are gonna be included as 4 plastic gray pieces bundled with a fold booster that you can use on your YF-21 for only 50+ bucks not including shipping

:lol: :lol:

[miriya]

I hope that the fixes are all in place for the VF-1D!

and that it includes VF-1D colored side parts, Hikaru pilot in civilian flightsuit, minmei in red dress, elevator cockpit, and a flying through the air minmey that can hold on to the fueselage.

[David Hingtgen]

Regarding the broken shoulder:

OK, that looks almost identical to the hinge/pin system used in most Transformers since the 80's. I'd bet on the "plastic part still holding the pin" being too small/tight to allow the pin to rotate freely, so instead of the pin smoothly rotating in its slot with the shoulder moving with it, the pin stays in place and the shoulder tries to rotate AROUND the pin, instead of WITH the pin---and it can't take it, and the grooved end of the pin chews the shoulder apart. (Since the plastic is now rotating around the grooves, which isn't supposed to happen).

People who have one---could you check carefully how/what rotates when you move the shoulders---are the metal pins rotating WITH the shoulders, or are the shoulders rotating AROUND the pins?

Re-uploading pic for convienance:

[eugimon]

so what can be done? knock the pin out and rebore the "plastic part still holding the pin" so that the pin is free to rotate?

[David Hingtgen]

That would be my idea, but it's not that easy to do---I've never done "pin-removal" on a Transformer. I've got a good article saved on my PC about it, but the original site is either gone or down. It WAS at: http://www.tfmaster.com/articles_pin.php

Problem is---method one involves a hammer, and method two uses a soldering iron. I'm not sure the new VF-1S could be disassembled enough to even attempt it--you'd have to remove the area holding the pin from the valk first, but then there's almost nothing to hold on to, etc.

::edit:: Found a copy somewhere else: http://www.tfw2005.com/radicons-customs/tu...-rivets-164126/

Or, a simpler apparently more reliable method:

.) As far as the straight pins, I've never had to use the Iron on these, I just use my 1/8 Starter Punch, my small hammer, and a block of wood (it's a 5 inch long piece of a 4x4 stud) Place the block of wood under the piece where the pin is going to come out so that the part itself is supported firmly by the wood.

As you know, these pins are knurled on one end, smooth on the other, the knurled end is the end you want to drive into the wood. Give it couple of firm wacks, and once the knurled end is showing, grab those needlenose pliers and pull it the rest of the way out (like Vector said)

Either way---I'd suspect there'd be a lot more "broken from the attempt" shoulders, than fixed shoulders.

PPS---but if you bored out the hole--then it'd probably be TOO loose, and the shoulders would swing in and out freely--and people don't like floppy arms...

[mechatek]

Isn't the sensor above the visor supposed to be red? And it looks like two different shades of yellow are being used on Graham's sample. One shade for the head and shoulder arrows and a darker shade for the chest.

[eugimon]

That would be my idea, but it's not that easy to do---I've never done "pin-removal" on a Transformer. I've got a good article saved on my PC about it, but the original site is either gone or down. It WAS at: http://www.tfmaster.com/articles_pin.php

Problem is---method one involves a hammer, and method two uses a soldering iron. I'm not sure the new VF-1S could be disassembled enough to even attempt it--you'd have to remove the area holding the pin from the valk first, but then there's almost nothing to hold on to, etc.

::edit:: Found a copy somewhere else: http://www.tfw2005.com/radicons-customs/tu...-rivets-164126/

Or, a simpler apparently more reliable method:

.) As far as the straight pins, I've never had to use the Iron on these, I just use my 1/8 Starter Punch, my small hammer, and a block of wood (it's a 5 inch long piece of a 4x4 stud) Place the block of wood under the piece where the pin is going to come out so that the part itself is supported firmly by the wood.

As you know, these pins are knurled on one end, smooth on the other, the knurled end is the end you want to drive into the wood. Give it couple of firm wacks, and once the knurled end is showing, grab those needlenose pliers and pull it the rest of the way out (like Vector said)

Either way---I'd suspect there'd be a lot more "broken from the attempt" shoulders, than fixed shoulders.

PPS---but if you bored out the hole--then it'd probably be TOO loose, and the shoulders would swing in and out freely--and people don't like floppy arms...

gah, thanks for posting the technique and I think you're right... the surgery sounds worse than the disease. Considering Graham's reviews and the various demo units that people have played with.. I'm hoping that the shoulder breakages are limited to a few bad runs and not common to all. Otherwise, I hope yamato provides 'improved' replacement arms.

[miriya]

Isn't the sensor above the visor supposed to be red? And it looks like two different shades of yellow are being used on Graham's sample. One shade for the head and shoulder arrows and a darker shade for the chest.

I preffer the yellow that appears on the chest and tail fins to the shoulder and head. If the chest was that bright (yuky) yellow then I would hate it. I always preffer the righer almost orangeish tangerine side of yellow as opposed to the light pastelish side.

[QuinJester]

And it looks like two different shades of yellow are being used on Graham's sample. One shade for the head and shoulder arrows and a darker shade for the chest.

Very likely... the chest would be masked and painted on, the arrows would be pad printed, which wouldn't use the same paint/ink.

Edited July 23, 2008 by QuinJester

[transfan52]

I dont mean to complain or anything as I havent had one bad yamato product yet but im well aware of yamato's history of defects on their first run products... It seems yamato can't and never will get it right on a new product line... Once is already too much for an expensive a$$ toy. If your paying over 100 dollars on a toy it should work... Im glad im waiting this out for the VF1A

[Scream Man]

Of course the 21 had no issues....

But i still think the shoulder break and what happeend to Alex are isolated. More reviews and people getting them are popping up, and those are still the only problems Ive seen mentioned.

[Swoosh]

Isn't the sensor above the visor supposed to be red? And it looks like two different shades of yellow are being used on Graham's sample. One shade for the head and shoulder arrows and a darker shade for the chest.

It is red on the production version, check my pic in page 5...

[wolfx]

Can you elaborate? First, how is the new shoulder articulation different than the 1/48? I noticed how the shoulders do look different but I have yet to handle the toy, so I don't know the exact differences. Secondly, how do you prevent breaking the arm? Is the ball joint stem itself the flimsy part, or the whole connection with the metal pin inserted, as shown 2 pages back?

on the 1/48, the shoulder connected to the balljoint and it had a hinge for the arms (above the bicep area) so it has some articulation there. The 1/60 instead doesn't have this hinge and the shoulder and arm is now a single piece.(very much like the VF-0) It relies on the balljoint connection itself for you to do the same movements.

And yes, its the whole connection with the metal pin that's flimsy. By itself it isn't flimsy but considering that its supposed to support all the movements of the arm, it doesn't look very strong. More details described below.

Regarding the broken shoulder:

OK, that looks almost identical to the hinge/pin system used in most Transformers since the 80's. I'd bet on the "plastic part still holding the pin" being too small/tight to allow the pin to rotate freely, so instead of the pin smoothly rotating in its slot with the shoulder moving with it, the pin stays in place and the shoulder tries to rotate AROUND the pin, instead of WITH the pin---and it can't take it, and the grooved end of the pin chews the shoulder apart. (Since the plastic is now rotating around the grooves, which isn't supposed to happen).

People who have one---could you check carefully how/what rotates when you move the shoulders---are the metal pins rotating WITH the shoulders, or are the shoulders rotating AROUND the pins?

Re-uploading pic for convienance:

Looking at the toy, the arm connection to the toy is really really fragile looking and warrants some need to be careful. On the 1/60, the piece that connects to the arm has almost no locking mechanism to the torso itself unlike the 1/48 and vf-0. That said it has quite a free range of movement for the arm but the pressure of moving the arms is supported only by that small pin. And also considering that the balljoint is now tight, moving the arms around carelessly especially while posing might weaken the area of breakage and eventually it will break.

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/toys/V...Review/b-13.JPG

Isn't the sensor above the visor supposed to be red? And it looks like two different shades of yellow are being used on Graham's sample. One shade for the head and shoulder arrows and a darker shade for the chest.

My sensor is red....and the yellows seem to be same shaded. The yellow arrows on the head also have a black outline.

Edited July 24, 2008 by wolfx

[danth]

I remain optimistic. If there are QC problems, I'm sure Yamato will offer replacement pieces (in Japan at least), and the version 2 release will be fixed. I'm willing to be an early adopter, even if it means my toy is less than perfect. Why? Because this toy is so freaking beautiful. Perfect proportions and in a smaller scale that I prefer.

But damn, Yamato really has problems with shoulders.