"beetle queen" or "little queen"- words in episode

[Morpheus]

http://www.macross.co.jp/bbs/entry.cgi?mod...ree&no=3146

Repent

2008/07/13(Sun) 10:42 [ No.3151 ]

たしか「ビートル」です

今録画で確認した

「ビートル クイーン」です

ベイソウ・セイケン

2008/07/14(Mon) 03:14 [ No.3166 ]

＞Repentさん

TBSの文字放送では地デジでもワンセグでも「リトルクイーン」となっていますが、他の局だと「ビートルクイーン」になっているということですか？

= =

So it is Beetle Queen.

[Renato]

Whoah, hold your horses. The verdict's not in just yet!! That one guy said that he checked his recording and it was definitely Beetle, but another said in resposnse that he watched it with the broadcasted subtitles and it was "Little" on both the OneSeg and terrestrial TBS broadcasts.

I cannot believe this thing is even being discussed in the Japanese forum!! Man, this is really funny.　　There's even one guy on there who said that it must be Beetle because it fits with Ranka's last words at the end of the preview in the Deculture Edition foreshadow that she will indeed be the Vajra Queen and that is her way of saying goodbye: "Farewell, I loved you..!" 「さようなら。大好きでした。」　I'd totally forgotten about that line, and it certainly is there for a reason....

In any case, it sounds like "Little" however I hear it, though. 「リトル」。 "Beetle" would need an elongated "e" syllable.　「ビートル」。

And BTW, Beatles > Monkees.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Renato

[VF-25 Messiah]

Well reading this japanese forum thread has more or less sealed the deal I think, unless this Repent fellow comes out says his claim is also supported by subtitles (not likely, seeing as he seemed to have backed down instead, wondering if it is indeed little, he can't check since he hasn't got his recording anymore), I see no way around it being little anymore. I'll be the first to take this back, when one of them does say he has broadcasted subtitles that say beetle instead of little, but until that happens...

But I have to agree, that they're arguing about this even on the japanese forum

Regardless, wether it is little queen or beetle queen, makes no difference whatsoever as to how it affects the story. Beetle because the Vajra are bugs, Little because Ranka is small compared to said bugs. The implications are exactly the same, so I don't see how that guy who mentioned the line from the deculture preview fits "Beetle" anymore than "Little".

[d3v]

No no no, she means Beatle Queen, in reference to the Beatles and Queen, which Grace considers to be the two greatest british rock acts ever.

She's already planning to drop Sheryl and then buy out Ranka's contract from Elmo so that she can produce her idea of the "greatest album ever" with a sound that's an amalgamation of the Sgt. Pepper and A Night at the Opera (followed by one that mixes the White Album with A Day at the Races).

[sketchley]

to sketchley: "Japanese also focuses on the vowels, whereas English focuses on the consonants." this is really a helpful tips when listening to the sound with V.

but, how about B? would it possible for a Japaneses to use the pronunciation of "B" to emphasize a word like L in "little "?

ばびぶべぼ「バビブベボ」 can be romanized as either babibubebo or vavivuvevo.

In this case, ビトル could be written as bitol, vitol, bitor, vitor, bitolu, vitolu, bitoru, or vitoru.　(These are all using the de facto/"standard" romanization*. Alternatives could begin with bee-toh-l, bea-toll and so on.)

As the official subtitles state that the word starts with リ, it's definitely not a bi or vi. As someone else mentioned, it is most likely a case of a listener not hearing correctly (not knowning when one word ends and another begins) and presuming that since what they heard sounds similar to a word in their native language, it must be the same as the word that they think they are hearing.

*For more info, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepburn_romanization

Edited July 15, 2008 by sketchley

[Renato]

Well reading this japanese forum thread has more or less sealed the deal I think, unless this Repent fellow comes out says his claim is also supported by subtitles (not likely, seeing as he seemed to have backed down instead, wondering if it is indeed little, he can't check since he hasn't got his recording anymore), I see no way around it being little anymore. I'll be the first to take this back, when one of them does say he has broadcasted subtitles that say beetle instead of little, but until that happens...

But I have to agree, that they're arguing about this even on the japanese forum

Regardless, wether it is little queen or beetle queen, makes no difference whatsoever as to how it affects the story. Beetle because the Vajra are bugs, Little because Ranka is small compared to said bugs. The implications are exactly the same, so I don't see how that guy who mentioned the line from the deculture preview fits "Beetle" anymore than "Little".

I think you got it the wrong way round, Repent is the one who was saying it IS Beetle, but then backed down when he heard that the subs said "Little".

EDIT -- I just re-read it and yeah, you're actually saying exactly what I'm saying. Duh, this thing is messing with my brain.

In this case, ビトル could be written as bitol, vitol, bitor, vitor, bitolu, vitolu, bitoru, or vitoru.　(These are all using the de facto/"standard" romanization*. Alternatives could begin with bee-toh-l, bea-toll and so on.)

Yeah, but it's all moot, because the correct katakana rendition for "Beetle" would be ビートル, not　ビトル. And whatever the consonants maybe that Grace uses, the first vowel is clearly not elongated, it is the same length as the other two syllables. And in Japanese pronounciation the key is in the vowels as you stated yourself earlier.

Edited July 16, 2008 by Renato

[Morpheus]

Grace: "Just as planned, with the fan confused this will be the end of frontier"

[Misa]

unfortunately， i have to tell you friends, the "ビートル" in the following site, is ME

http://www.macross.co.jp/bbs/entry.cgi?mod...ree&no=3146

[Misa]

In any case, it sounds like "Little" however I hear it, though. 「リトル」。 "Beetle" would need an elongated "e" syllable.　「ビートル」。

but i think, in conversation, elongated or not would not be so important.

[creamyhorror]

unfortunately， i have to tell you friends, the "ビートル" in the following site, is ME

http://www.macross.co.jp/bbs/entry.cgi?mod...ree&no=3146

I was wondering why a Japanese person would think it was "beetle queen" (though I was already suspecting it wasn't a Japanese from the choice of nick). Do you have much experience speaking or translating Japanese?

I think this is a clear-cut case and not at all confusing to Japanese speakers, especially because the "ri" isn't elongated as Renato said.

Edited July 16, 2008 by creamyhorror

[Misa]

I was wondering why a Japanese person would think it was "beetle queen" (though I was already suspecting it wasn't a Japanese from the choice of nick). Do you have much experience speaking or translating Japanese?

I think this is a clear-cut case and not at all confusing to Japanese speakers, especially because the "ri" isn't elongated as Renato said.

but some Japanese have such question as well. it is not the problem fo elongate. .....just focus on the first letter

[Renato]

Misa: No offense or anything, but it doesn't look like you read the last couple of pages. And yes, elongated vowels make a world of difference in Japanese pronunciation.

Creamy Horror: Yeah, I too suspected that the guy might not actually be Japanese.

[ackem]

Grace: "Just as planned, with the fan confused this will be the end of frontier"

The hatred between the Little Army and the Beetle Army is already raging!

[jenius]

Isn't this entire argument moot because the meaning is the same. If she's the "beetle queen" then she's a queen of the Vajra. If she's the "little queen" then she's a queen of the Vajra. What does it matter?

[mike_s_6]

The hatred between the Little Army and the Beetle Army is already raging!

(Geek mode, also a reference to Gulliver's travels):

Are you Little Endian or Beetle Endian?

Yes, as I and some other people have mentioned, it doesn't matter (they mean almost the same thing in essence). But if someone has the official answer, I'd like to know also

[creamyhorror]

but some Japanese have such question as well. it is not the problem fo elongate. .....just focus on the first letter

I don't see any links to pages where Japanese were debating the word. Do you have any? (If you mean the page on the Macross blog that you posted on, they were just being polite.)

Anyway, it looks like the large majority of people hear "little", including Japanese and Japanese translators, so there's your answer.

[whispo]

Isn't this entire argument moot because the meaning is the same. If she's the "beetle queen" then she's a queen of the Vajra. If she's the "little queen" then she's a queen of the Vajra. What does it matter?

Ooh nobody really cares about that! We're just discussing this here to pass time between episodes ..... a week is such a long time