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One thing to keep in mind: this is a totally optional DLC. That means whatever impact it has on ME3 will not be integral to the plot. It probably means little more than additional dialog/mail/news reports.

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That is very very true and despite all my nitpicking, I did enjoy the bow it puts on ME2. I'm really looking forward to the 3rd game and seeing everything come together in truly epic fashion.

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  On 3/30/2011 at 4:07 AM, Duke Togo said:

One thing to keep in mind: this is a totally optional DLC. That means whatever impact it has on ME3 will not be integral to the plot. It probably means little more than additional dialog/mail/news reports.

Uh not quite true...

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Interestingly, a plot hole I just realised.

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Edited by Lynx7725
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I think the events of ME1 probably give him enough cause to voice concerns about Reaper indoctrination, but your point is valid.

While the events of the DLC could go the way Lynx suggests (which would make perfect sense) Bioware has also said they do not intend to penalize anyone who opts to not pay for them. So the question is, do they make the implications of the DLC small or non existent or do they just stick a canon choice in there and force people who didn't get the DLC to deal with it. While this newest DLC doesn't have much choice (or any really) do you subject players to the fallout of those events even if they didn't specifically play it.

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  On 3/30/2011 at 5:17 AM, kaiotheforsaken said:

While the events of the DLC could go the way Lynx suggests (which would make perfect sense) Bioware has also said they do not intend to penalize anyone who opts to not pay for them. So the question is, do they make the implications of the DLC small or non existent or do they just stick a canon choice in there and force people who didn't get the DLC to deal with it. While this newest DLC doesn't have much choice (or any really) do you subject players to the fallout of those events even if they didn't specifically play it.

Hey, I got stuck with Udina as councilor in ME2... :lol:

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  On 3/30/2011 at 5:02 AM, Lynx7725 said:

Uh not quite true...

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Interestingly, a plot hole I just realised.

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Ok, just finished my second Arrival run. Same Paragon Sniper. Took all the achievements -- thought I'll need a second run but turned out wasn't necessary. Real spoilers below.

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Edited by Lynx7725
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And strange thoughts come to you as you meditate on the porcelain throne.

If Mass Relays are built by Reapers, essentially Reaper artifacts, why aren't every traveller who spend enough time going through them indoctrinated...?

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  On 3/30/2011 at 6:36 PM, David Hingtgen said:

Doesn't indoctrination require a reaper itself? The citadel doesn't do it either.

Point, but that also means all those little reaper artifacts lying around in ME2 -- I can think of 2, maybe 3 missions -- are all little bits of reapers?

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  On 3/30/2011 at 5:38 PM, Lynx7725 said:

And strange thoughts come to you as you meditate on the porcelain throne.

If Mass Relays are built by Reapers, essentially Reaper artifacts, why aren't every traveller who spend enough time going through them indoctrinated...?

During the last battle in ME2, it sounds like the Reapers are saying there's something worse than them out there. Or maybe the reapers are more interested in shaping the evolution of the galaxy towards a specific goal rather than just complete domination?

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I think Eugimon has been indoctrinated with a statement like that :p

Listening Harbinger's speech at the end of the game (just found it on youtube again) sounds to me like the Reapers are the nastiest thing out there. Though a twist to make them not would be fairly epic, it would likely feel pretty shoe horned in since we've had no evidence of anything worse.

On the indoctrination thing, it seems that Reapers as well as certain Reaper artifacts have the ability to do so. I imagine, however, that the artifacts are that spread indoctrination are designed for just that purpose. Because the relays are such an important part of galactic travel, it may not be in the Reapers best interest to indoctrinate everyone that goes though them. In theory anyway, it could severely stunt the development of a species if once they started using the relay they all became servants of Reapers (especially if there was no Reaper to give them specific orders).

The Reapers also seem to like to keep a relatively low profile between arrivals. If the relays were obviously Reaper technology, people might catch on much quicker, or find clues or warnings left from past civilizations. The Relays and the Citadel, as the are now, serve a purpose and shape civilizations that find them a certain way. This alone may be all the Reapers require of those specific items.

That's all just theory on my part, but it seems sensible. However, there is an even simpler explanation which is this: If the relays (and the citadel) were capable of indoctrinating all those who came in contact with them, Shepard (as well as every character we've met) would be a servant of the Reapers and we wouldn't have much of a story.

Edited by kaiotheforsaken
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I always took that as the Reapers seeing all other forms of life as inferior, and that other species are elevated when altered or consumed for Reaper use. Or, the Reapers are intending to utilize humans in much the way they did the Protheans, so the species is "saved" from the cosmic extinction in a sense.

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I always thought of the Reapers as similar to the Borg. They show up and essentially assimilate anything biological or technological that will benefit them in some way, (after all, most ME modern tech is based of things the Reapers left for species to find) and they consume the rest (perhaps for a form of reproduction like the human reaper). Then they leave and wait for societies to advance to a point where they can be used again, they may even help along some species so as to keep the cycle at a constant interval.

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  On 3/30/2011 at 8:40 PM, kaiotheforsaken said:

I always thought of the Reapers as similar to the Borg. They show up and essentially assimilate anything biological or technological that will benefit them in some way, (after all, most ME modern tech is based of things the Reapers left for species to find) and they consume the rest (perhaps for a form of reproduction like the human reaper). Then they leave and wait for societies to advance to a point where they can be used again, they may even help along some species so as to keep the cycle at a constant interval.

Yeah, okay... but if the reapers are constantly culling the galaxy before the reach a level where they can be a threat (understanding mass effect, relays, etc) then what can they possibly be getting that would be beneficial to them?

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When you first meet the Collectors, they say something along the lines of "Prepare the humans for ascension".

That makes me think that the Reapers need the raw genetic material of other life to reproduce. After all, in ME1, the reaper basically calls Shepard an insect, inferring that all life in the galaxy is pretty much worthless until the Reapers cull it. Fits the Reaper superiority complex.

Also, I'm sensing that the Citadel is part of a Reaper super weapon in ME3.

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  On 3/30/2011 at 11:17 PM, one_klump said:

When you first meet the Collectors, they say something along the lines of "Prepare the humans for ascension".

That makes me think that the Reapers need the raw genetic material of other life to reproduce. After all, in ME1, the reaper basically calls Shepard an insect, inferring that all life in the galaxy is pretty much worthless until the Reapers cull it. Fits the Reaper superiority complex.

Yeah, I was thinking that too but then right before you face off against the uber T, EDI says she's getting (paraphrasing) "biological AND Reaper" readings. And if the Reapers use the bio-smoothie to reproduce, why would the uber-T have that unique reading and why would it be a giant humanoid reaper and not some sort of squidy-reaper-fetus thing?

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Also, I'm sensing that the Citadel is part of a Reaper super weapon in ME3.

Me too... there's gotta be a big reason why the reapers keep it around, leave it staffed with nerf'd protheans and made a bee line straight to it with sovereign.

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Maybe the creators of the Reapers uses them to cyclically destroy civilizations in multiple galaxies in order to evolve one that is capable of beating them back.

It's cheesy, macho and typical of Bioware.

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Wasn't the citadel a huge mass relay? I thought sovereign was attempting to activate it to bring the reapers through. Seeing as its consistently the center of galactic life, it would make sense that it's their preferred entry point. I'm fairly certain that's it's function.

Edit: Here we go, from the ME wiki and I believe covered by the Prothean beacon on Ilos "The station is actually an inactive mass relay leading to dark space, designed as an elaborate trap so the Reapers can wipe out the heart of galactic civilization and leadership in a single, devastating strike. "

It also says in the same article that it was the biggest Mass Relay hub, or one of the biggest. So it would allow the Reapers to fan out in the most efficient manner as they moved through out the galaxy. So it makes perfect sense to have it and keep maintained.

Edited by kaiotheforsaken
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The Reapers' control of Citadel sort of got blocked by the Proteans IIRC. That's the reason behind Sovereign's attack on the Citadel in ME1 -- to reassert control so that the main Reaper fleet can come in. I believe the final boss in ME2 might have been intended to be a second attempt to attack and regain control of the Citadel relay, but the timeline is off*.

Have to give it to the Reapers, they do believe in contingency planning. First, they cunningly set up a system of super-science travel devices that are easily understood by lesser races so that they will become dependent on these relays; they build a hidden hub (Citadel) so that they can reassert control over the entire network, then go off into dark space to hibernate. But just in case there's a problem with the hub they leave a vanguard (Sovereign) to make sure they can reassert control. But just in case the vanguard failed, they have a client/ genegineered race (the Collectors) complete with a technologically impressive base to support and provide secondary backup plans. And just in case that failed too, they plan to:

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C'mon Bioware. No human is that good. I guess that's why the Reapers aren't human....

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Edited by Lynx7725
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Has anyone else talked to Legion as a pure Renegade after you save the Collector Base? I can't remember exactly what he says since it was two months ago, but I'm pretty sure he said he was surprised by my decision, and that the Reapers were originally organic beings that uploaded themselves to the giant space crabs. Dunno if they turned themselves into smoothies first, though.

Of course, the only endgame dialogue that isn't on youtube is Legion's and my saves from the base were overwritten because I did Shadow Broker after the Suicide Mission. Maybe I'm just making poo up.

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I hope it's a harem-themed series :D . Tsundere Miranda, Imouto Fem Shepard, One-Sama Chakwas, Magical Space Girl Liara, and Moe Android Legion.

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<3 Bioware...I am getting a free PC version of ME2 as a thanks for helping making Dragon Age so awesome! :D

I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE OLD REPUBLIC!

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.... and in breaking news...

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Edited by Lynx7725
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  On 4/8/2011 at 3:09 PM, CoryHolmes said:
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Either way, I'm still excited and I'll probably buy the super-exclusive edition.

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Considering the potential party members in ME3, I really don't have a problem gathering party members but I think it's going to be more like

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  On 4/8/2011 at 5:29 PM, HoveringCheesecake said:
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True.

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Either way, I'm still excited and I'll probably buy the super-exclusive edition.

Also true :D

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Lot of assumptions being made already, I'm going to try and reserve judgment though. Most of the changes seem like exactly what many of us asked for. The fact Bioware stripped out almost all RPG elements from 2 was one of the biggest flaws imo.

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