The Great Megaroad Debate

Duke Togo · October 30, 2003

Most of you know I buy into the whole "story has been told, leave it be" argument, but I got to thinking recently... would Kawamori have been better off saying they settled somewhere distant in the galaxy, and that is that? By saying they disappeared, he is stirring up some controversy. People will debate it and continue to discuss it because he left them with an ending that is a mystery. Fans want to solve mysteries, its in their nature!

Hell, he probably should have just left Flashback 2012 as the ending, and not said anything else. They flew off to explore the universe, THE END. Not like he can follow up now anyways, with Hikaru's voice actor being dead.

bsu legato · October 30, 2003

I agree with you, Duke. The whole "They-flew-into-a-black-hole" thing is just asking for trouble. It's almost as bad as ending with the the words "THE END" which then melt into a giant question mark.

EXO · October 30, 2003

Some authors want that great debate, to give the audience's imagination the chance to run wild. But in this case, I think it bit him in the ass, because now he has to answer to a million fanboys wanting to know who married who...

I understand the fact that he respects the voice actor who did Hikaru. But I feel that if he's going to respect that part of Hikaru, he should have respected Mikimoto's design of Roy Focker, which was greatly altered for Macross 0. I understand that it's a different look but maybe he should have used the new character designer (Takuya Saito) on a different series, like M+, that didn't contain previous characters.

EDIT: YAAAR! Me grammar is despicable! YAAR!

Edited October 30, 2003 by >EXO<

Anubis · October 30, 2003

To have them just disappear as far as earth is concerned is kind of a slap in the face. Just leaving it like that without a followup story feels like a wasted opportunity. Max and Millia have gotten tons of exposure, and now Roy kind of has his own OVA, it would only be fair to see something involving Hikaru and Misa, even Minmei since she was on the ship too. Wasn't there something about them picking up some signal and heading in that direction?

I do think Kawamori blew a good series opportunity, leaving fans hanging like that. If he indeed chooses to leave it as is, then fine, but many of us will always wish he hadn't.

Uxi · October 30, 2003

Isn't this the sort of the "trekkie" need-to-know-everything thing you claim to despise?

Hikaru won't ever be revisted because of the voice actor dying... It'd be easy to come up with something a generation or two past and saying that Hikaru had a tragic death... or maybe a heroic one... but it's not likely to ever be visited. Space is enormous and I kinda like the idea of it as a complete mystery to the UN Spacy for years after. "Whatever DID happen to the Megaroad?" Maybe consipracy theory type stuff... even though it isn't Macross.

Plus, look how M7 got worked. The Megaroad coudln't have been nearly as capable. Imagine if they ran into a threat comparable to just the Varauta (without the Protodevlin)...

Edited October 30, 2003 by Uxi

Pat Payne · October 30, 2003

Well, I think part of the problem, Duke, is that Kawamori AFAIK, doesn't like doing sequels. He's said before that he prefers to do a completely fresh story every time. But BW came to him with a cartload of money and said (a'la Conan Doyle) "We want you to do a new show for us, and by 'new' show, we mean Macross show." When that happened, I think that's when the fanboys really came out of the woodwork. Because now he had to explain why Hikaru, Misa and Minmay weren't there (and at the time, IIRC, Arihiro Hase hadn't died yet--he did have a role in Mac 7), and the infamous retcon machine was turned on yet again. Fanboys just won't listen to "I don't want to do another story about that character -- it's over."

However, there won't be a return from Reichenbach Falls for Hikaru Ichijyo. It seems Shoji Kawamori has more resolve in the matter than Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Duke Togo · October 30, 2003

Pat and Uxi, you aren't getting what I am saying. I have no problem with him ending their story. I am saying he went about it the wrong way, which is why its still debated today.

Uxi · October 30, 2003

I know, I didn't get ya wrong. But I thought I addressed that by saying I prefer the mystery part. Plus it IS a whole needle in a haystack thing...

Or Maybe they went back in time and became Protoculture who creat the Zentraedi and... nevermind. B))

Effect · October 30, 2003

I always had a problem with the disappearing thing. He could just as easy said that the Megaroad fleet found a planet in a part of the galaxy and settled down. After a few years both Misa and Hikaru retired or held high positions on the colony/planet. As for their children just say that they didn't enter the military but went a different route to get rid of the possiblity for a story about that child. That would have satisfiyed people I think. As for Minmei you can just say she continued to sing and then later retired herself after marrying and having children. Just be vague about the details though.

With things are now you have all of these questions as to what happen to them, why did they disappear, were they killed, etc..

Uxi · October 30, 2003

Yeah but why come up with all that stuff when you don't have to? What happened to Amelia Earheart? That that they're missing and unnacounted for means UN Spacy doesn't know (or is just saying they don't for conspiracy types). They could well have kids who didnt join UN Spacy. They could all be dead. THey could be in some dreaded Star Trek time-space anomoly... They could be on Tirol. :lol:

tetsujin · October 30, 2003

I understand the fact that he respects the voice actor who did Hikaru. But I feel that if he's going to respect that part of Hikaru, he should have respected Mikimoto's design of Roy Focker, which was greatly altered for Macross 0. I understand that it's a different look but maybe he should have used the new character designer (Takuya Saito) on a different series, like M+, that didn't contain previous characters.

I like the new design for Roy. To me it captures the elements that define the character, visually, for me, while fitting the look of the new stuff. It gives him a more serious look. He's still Roy, but now he looks military, too. Plus it's just really great to see him flying again, he truly is the man. Does he look out of place relative to the flashbacks in Macross? Sure. But then, so do the VF-0 and SV-51. That's just how these prequel things work. Par for the course.

EXO · October 30, 2003

I understand the fact that he respects the voice actor who did Hikaru. But I feel that if he's going to respect that part of Hikaru, he should have respected Mikimoto's design of Roy Focker, which was greatly altered for Macross 0. I understand that it's a different look but maybe he should have used the new character designer (Takuya Saito) on a different series, like M+, that didn't contain previous characters.

I like the new design for Roy. To me it captures the elements that define the character, visually, for me, while fitting the look of the new stuff. It gives him a more serious look. He's still Roy, but now he looks military, too. Plus it's just really great to see him flying again, he truly is the man. Does he look out of place relative to the flashbacks in Macross? Sure. But then, so do the VF-0 and SV-51. That's just how these prequel things work. Par for the course.

Dont get me wrong... I love the fact that we have a Focker story in our hands. I was just saying that he shouldn't be strict with the voice actors if he's not with the lineart, which I think is 2 important parts of what makes the character.

But to me it's the story that is more important. If the there IS more to tell (in Hikaru's case, I don't think there is), I wish Kawamori wouldn't say that he's limited by availability of the voice actors.

Edited October 30, 2003 by >EXO<

dna · October 30, 2003

I don't see how it could be a mistake. What's wrong with not knowing? The mystery is far better than the mundane truth we would have gotten...

UN Spacy · October 30, 2003

Excuse me guys but WHERE (in Flashback 2012) does it show the Megaroad disappearing? As far as I know the Megaroad sails into the stars, I know that Kawamori stated that the Megaroad was lost (probably the alleviate the HARD CORE fans).

Personally. All this talk about the Megaroad just tarnishes the beauty that is Flashback 2012.

IT'S DONE. END OF STORY.

bsu legato · October 30, 2003

Personally. All this talk about the Megaroad just tarnishes the beauty that is Flashback 2012.
IT'S DONE. END OF STORY.

But the problem is...he didn't leave it at that. If the Megaroad had never been mentioned again after FB2012, then who'd complain? But no, instead they had to throw this "Black Hole" thing out there for us to chew on. <_<

Ali Sama · October 30, 2003

Not like he can follow up now anyways, with Hikaru's voice actor being dead.

voices canbe replaced easily. that is a non issue. i knew a guyy in my aniem class who could impersinate jim hensin and you coudl nto tell the diffrence.

Nightbat · October 30, 2003

I get what you mean Duke

Kawamori just had to dismiss it and at most he would've p***** off a few fans as if "he didn't care what great story he made"

people would've forgot about it

but mysteries are bad habits to kill when you have thousands of curious fans, just like the assasination of kennedy is still a "hot topic" after 30+ years, or: "what happened to Jimmy Hoffa", this can be regarded the same for the Macross Franchise

ofcourse if Kawamori is short on cash/work he may just use it as his "Ace up his sleave"

Heh, he created his own legend when he claimed "the Megaroad 1 dissappeared somewhere in the neighbourhood of Uranus"

he should have known (and probably did) what impact his "Gone without a trace" statement would make

EXO · October 30, 2003

Fans will be fans... you can even provide them a corpse (like Elvis), and they still feel the need for more info.

Sumdumgai · October 30, 2003

Isn't this the sort of the "trekkie" need-to-know-everything thing you claim to despise?
Hikaru won't ever be revisted because of the voice actor dying... It'd be easy to come up with something a generation or two past and saying that Hikaru had a tragic death... or maybe a heroic one... but it's not likely to ever be visited. Space is enormous and I kinda like the idea of it as a complete mystery to the UN Spacy for years after. "Whatever DID happen to the Megaroad?" Maybe consipracy theory type stuff... even though it isn't Macross.

Plus, look how M7 got worked. The Megaroad coudln't have been nearly as capable. Imagine if they ran into a threat comparable to just the Varauta (without the Protodevlin)...

Actually it's still possible to do another series with what happened to the Megaroad 01 despite Hikaru's voice actor being dead. Look at the brand new Saint Seiya Hades Arc. They bring this series out years after the original finished, and they had some voice actors die in that time period, so they simply replaced them.

Besides didn't they get a new voice actor for Hikaru in the new Macross game on PS2?

Just leaving it a mystery could be cool too though.

Pat Payne · October 30, 2003

Pat and Uxi, you aren't getting what I am saying. I have no problem with him ending their story. I am saying he went about it the wrong way, which is why its still debated today.

I'm not quite sure you're understanding me either. I wasn't saying that you or anyone on the boards had a problem with Kawamori saying that he wouldn't do anything about the Megaroad. Instead, I was arguing how we could have gone from "Well, I'm not saying anything about that, because there won't be a Megaroad series" to "Well, they got sucked into a black hole. End of discussion. Happy ?!?" I agree that if he had just kept with "I'm not doing anything with Megaroad" this may have allbeen averted.

VF-18S Hornet · October 30, 2003

Isn't this the sort of the "trekkie" need-to-know-everything thing you claim to despise?
Hikaru won't ever be revisted because of the voice actor dying... It'd be easy to come up with something a generation or two past and saying that Hikaru had a tragic death... or maybe a heroic one... but it's not likely to ever be visited. Space is enormous and I kinda like the idea of it as a complete mystery to the UN Spacy for years after. "Whatever DID happen to the Megaroad?" Maybe consipracy theory type stuff... even though it isn't Macross.

Plus, look how M7 got worked. The Megaroad coudln't have been nearly as capable. Imagine if they ran into a threat comparable to just the Varauta (without the Protodevlin)...

Maybe they were chased all over the galaxy by a new and powerful enemy, and to prevent this new enemy from tracking them down or even reaching earth they chose to cut all transmissions to earth and hide out in an remote unknown part of the galaxy.

Agent ONE · October 30, 2003

He could have just left it mysterious so IF he had a good idea he could eaily go and revisit it.

Lightning · October 30, 2003

u know, out of respect to Hikaru's voice actor, he could have Hikaru finally bite it in battle and have his kid take over as Skull-001.

the white drew carey · October 30, 2003

I think he know how rabid Macross fans can be. I think he also knew the fervor and speculation that such a statement would make.

Kawamori's a merry prankster.

Hurin · October 30, 2003

First. . . is it confirmed that he actually used the phrase "black hole?" If that is the case. . . sorry guys. . . Hikaru is dead along with everyone else on the Megaroad. Aside from some wishful thinking and fanciful science fiction writing, going into a black hole = death well before you reach the event horizon. Hehe, and as we all know, Macross isn't science fiction. It's historical!

Ironically, I just passed within about two feet of Stephen Hawking about an hour ago. He's visiting where I work.

I've always heard that the Megaroad folded to the center of the galaxy and all contact was lost. Now, there is a super black hole in the center of the galaxy. But did they actually go in?

As for why Kawamori did it that way. . . I LOVE IT!

It beats the hell out of lame-ass sequels that suck all the poignance, finality, and meaning out of the original series. The "book closing" ending isn't half as effective if there is story after story about Hikaru and all the characters afterwards.

Look at Indiana Jones. Raiders of the Lost Ark was perfect. Then the next two movies fundamentally altered/ruined that character. Imagine more Tolkien books about Frodo. Look at how cheapened the magic of the original Star Wars is now that there have been a billion books/novels and two (soon three) new movies.

I love the Kawamori route. Leave it vague. . . and let it stand.

H

Edited October 30, 2003 by Hurin

Duke Togo · October 30, 2003

Temple of Doom is a FABULOUS movie. I have found amongst many Indy fans it tends to be their favorite.

No time for love, Dr Jones!

Hurin · October 31, 2003

I can't help you.

bsu legato · October 31, 2003

You call him "Dr Jones," doll! Hee hee... Short Round.

I should add that the full story of the Megaroad's disappearance mentions that they were investigating some sort of transmission that was eminating from the black hole. :blink:

You know, the more I think about it the more I agree with WhiteDrew. The Froating Head is just f*cking with us fanboys.

EXO · October 31, 2003

Huh? did I miss something? While Raiders is an unsurpassable mark in action film history, the sequels weren't exactly crap. And just because Kawamori said there's nothing left to say about Hikaru, Misa and Minamy doesn't mean that a good Megaroad story is impossible. I assume it's just smarter not to take chances.

ewilen · October 31, 2003

First. . . is it confirmed that he actually used the phrase "black hole?"

I don't know, but the Chronology just has

2016
Vrlitwhai Kridanik's appointment as United Nations Spacy's commander.

Megaroad-01's communications cease near the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. (News about this ship are not publicized.)

Hm. Just saw bsu legato's post--where is that from about the "transmissions emanating from a black hole"?

Hurin · October 31, 2003

Last comment I will make about Indy movies in this thread. . .

I think my point is being made by the fact that those who love the latter two movies point out funny lines from it.

The first movie wasn't about being funny. It was about a dark anti-hero character. There was some light humor, but it never felt contrived. The two movies after that lightened Indy up excessively and introduced kid characters, formulaic situations, and gratuitous attempts at comedy. . . to the point where the third movie was practically a comedy with some action thrown in as an excuse for more comedy. You can say that the latter two were decent movies, but they are not in the same class as Raiders. They're totally different types/styles of movie making. Most people only remember these movies from when they were a kid. But comparing them as an adult, the differences are jarring. But, let's not debate this here. If you want to debate it, take it over to my site where I write about this: here. Comments are possible at the bottom.

I'd still like to see the actual quote where the black hole is mentioned.

H

Edited October 31, 2003 by Hurin

imode · October 31, 2003

You'd think that Kawamori did eventually plan to expand the series with stories of Hikaru and Misa. If not, there'd be no need to go in depth and tell us they had a daughter named Miku, etc. etc. What probably sealed it was the death of Hikaru's voice actor. I think the idea of stories about Miku hold a lot of promise however.

nhyone · October 31, 2003

I have a simpler real-world explanation. Could it be that Harmony Gold could claim ownership or distribution rights to it?

Sometimes I feel the story is better for it. Sequels usually do not live up to expectations. But I would have like additional stories to fill in the original tv series.

Myriad · October 31, 2003

Be thankfull he won't do anything with those characters. The great thing about many great series are that they end. Most of the time things are best just left alone. Be glad the trio are gone, otherwise they would have been in that M7 show we all either love or hate.

Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex is getting a second season. My gut tells me just leave things as they were. If the second season sucks, it will bring the whole series down to a lower level. Of course, the people who love the Manga probably cringed when news of a TV show came about.

Cheers to Mospeada flopping and only getting a OVA. I don't want any more Mospeada story arcs. Don't mess with a good thing and screw it up.

Edited October 31, 2003 by Myriad

azrael · October 31, 2003

Hikaru's voice actor was replaced:

http://www.anime.net/macross/characters/i/...#ichijyo_hikaru

Voice (Sony PlayStation 2 game): Kenji Nojima

But, I think out of respect for Mr. Hase, Mr. Kawamori will not continue with the Hikaru-character beyond what has been established. He will revisit certain events, but I don't think he wants to go beyond that.

... is that Kawamori AFAIK, doesn't like doing sequels. He's said before that he prefers to do a completely fresh story every time.

I tend to agree with you on this Pat. What Kawamori has done, time and time again, with his own creations is create new interpretations of the story.

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