V-171 battroid Debut

[Master Dex]

Pres. Glass probably called in a few favours from a certain mayor in the Macross 7 fleet.

Course that Diamond Force should be using VF-22s now. Even if VF-171 became the standard valk for NUNS I don't see why they'd trade in the VF-22 for that.

[Sumdumgai]

I dunno about no casualties. Island 1 took a hit which damaged the downtown area and caused an unkown amount of deaths and injuries (we see people getting blown out the hole into space). The vajra gunships were firing at things which were exploding, when Sheryl woke up and made up her mind to attempt to fly herself and injured Mihail away from the gunship.

[Master Dex]

I dunno about no casualties. Island 1 took a hit which damaged the downtown area and caused an unkown amount of deaths and injuries (we see people getting blown out the hole into space). The vajra gunships were firing at things which were exploding, when Sheryl woke up and made up her mind to attempt to fly herself and injured Mihail away from the gunship.

I think he was referring to fighter pilots mostly, Macross always shows civilians dying. As for the people on the ships, we have to assume they are always taking hits, even in the extremely one sided ep.7 battle (on SMSs side there) we know there were NUNS fighters off in the distance with other ships but we didn't see much of them or how well we did. Point is we should be seeing if they are getting blown up or not. It is important to see that your not invincible and if it is the enemy winning in a one sided match then they have to lose something too.

[Mr March]

I think it's ultimately more important that Kawamori and Co. advance the story rather than ensuring the audience have a perfectly accurate depiction of the battle from every unit's point of view on the battlefield.

The first battle in episode 1 was meant to be desperate and filled with tension, something you don't get if the good guys are holding their own. In episode 14, the Vajra were meant to be shown in a whole new light and hence the NUNS/SMS are shown prepared, armed and ready for them. We start to see the Vajra as more than just mindless monsters and Ranka now knows it.

Story-driven combat, not action-driven. That's the difference.

Edited July 12, 2008 by Mr March

[the_foul_fowl]

Yep, i was referring to the fighters. I mean, while the scene with Machida was amazing, I thought it would have been even greater, if say the Vajra that Machida took out, actually shot down a VF-171 in the scene before it. Could've even re-used some footage from Ep1.

And yes, I do agree that fhere's no need to show every unit's action, since ultimately the show has to focus on the main characters, but little touches like what I described above, showing both sides trading punches, even if ultimately showing the NUNS emerging as victors, would have really helped the scenes.

We do know that NUNS lost some units from the reports to President Glass, I just thought showing, rather than telling, would have helped the overall feel of the fleet actions in the ep...

[bsu legato]

Like I said earlier, I hope they can introduce some NUNS aces in the series, have a friendly rivalry between SMS and NUNS.

Guh....that would be the worst thing they could do. Shoehorning in some new character from outside the existing core group solely for the purpose of answering fanwank is never the answer. Unless the plot takes a drastic 90 degree turn, the NUNS should remain anonymously in the background.

[Mechinyun]

Guh....that would be the worst thing they could do. Shoehorning in some new character from outside the existing core group solely for the purpose of answering fanwank is never the answer. Unless the plot takes a drastic 90 degree turn, the NUNS should remain anonymously in the background.

Na, we need more V-171.

[Gubaba]

Guh....that would be the worst thing they could do. Shoehorning in some new character from outside the existing core group solely for the purpose of answering fanwank is never the answer. Unless the plot takes a drastic 90 degree turn, the NUNS should remain anonymously in the background.

Are you kidding? This is a marketing opportunity of the greatest kind...they could have a contest, and whoever wins would have his or her name and likeness used for the VF-171 pilot. And they would be allowed to write their own dialogue. And if they decided to tell the main characters what they should do, the main characters would have to obey.

Then they could retitle the series Macross Mary Sue.

It'd be GREAT!

[bsu legato]

Are you kidding? This is a marketing opportunity of the greatest kind...they could have a contest, and whoever wins would have his or her name and likeness used for the VF-171 pilot. And they would be allowed to write their own dialogue. And if they decided to tell the main characters what they should do, the main characters would have to obey.

Then they could retitle the series Macross Mary Sue.

It'd be GREAT!

Quoted for greatness.

[VFTF1]

Actually, I had initially hoped that beyond Cathy, Leon and El Presidente, we would see some NUNS pilots who had more to say than "Aaaaahhh!!!" or "Y-y-yokai!"

But this far into the series it's obvious that NUNS are to Macross: Frontier what Destroid Pilots were to SDF M - they are just there; but they are not going to be the focus of the group.

Inserting some more fleshed out NUNS characters now would be akin to Episode 15 of SDF M TV suddenly deciding to just not show any progression of Hikaru and the gang and switched to "The Adventures of Monster 3"... can't see it working.

VFTF1

[DarkReaper]

Well, Macross 7 introduced the jamming birds quite late into the series as well as Emerald force.

Now of course none of them were fleshed out but atleast they got airtime.

[Mr March]

"Y-y-yokai!"

I think it's impossible to watch any measure of Macross and not have this word burned into your brain. I bet it's the most often repeated word in all of Macross

[VF-25 Messiah]

I think it's impossible to watch any measure of Macross and not have this word burned into your brain. I bet it's the most often repeated word in all of Macross

It's "Ryoukai" 了解 though

just saying...

[Mr March]

Ah, good to know. I should make something for the M3 about that word. Maybe a demotivator poster. Now I'll know how to spell it. Thanks Messiah

Edited July 13, 2008 by Mr March

[aerocombatpilot]

Call me old, but I miss the days when everybody flew the SAME type of aircraft. Those VF-1's with different colors were alright with me, because it gave the impression that the pilots who survived did so because of their abilities, and not because of the type of plane their were flying. One of my gripes against Macross 7 was that the VF-11's were all cannon fodder, while VF-19's and VF-17's were undestructable! So, all you would have to do is fly one of the "heroic" planes and you had a very good chance of making out alive. Sure, Basara's 19 was destroyed but only after 48 episodes!! How many

VF-11 pilots made it that far?!! And let's not forget Diamond Force and their near-indestructable 17's. They only lost 1 that I can remember!! A squadren consisting of one type aircraft makes it through 49 episodes of combat and manages to loose only one, while any entire fleet containing God knows how many squadrens of another type aircraft manages to loose HUNDREDS EVERY EPISODE!!! Man if that is not favoritism I don't know what is! DESIGNING A CANNON FODDER PLANE IS JUST SOOOO WRONG!!!!! I wish Kawamori would go back to designing one VF per series, AND LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY, anything else looks like an inferior aircraft that unfortunate pilots have to fly in order to provide background explosions. I am glad that the VF-171 finally scored some kills, and that the NUNS pilots were portrayed as real fighters; not cowards. I would like to see more NUNS action, and possibly the 171 pilot who bagged the baddies.

[Master Dex]

Call me old, but I miss the days when everybody flew the SAME type of aircraft. Those VF-1's with different colors were alright with me, because it gave the impression that the pilots who survived did so because of their abilities, and not because of the type of plane their were flying. One of my gripes against Macross 7 was that the VF-11's were all cannon fodder, while VF-19's and VF-17's were undestructable! So, all you would have to do is fly one of the "heroic" planes and you had a very good chance of making out alive. Sure, Basara's 19 was destroyed but only after 48 episodes!! How many

VF-11 pilots made it that far?!! And let's not forget Diamond Force and their near-indestructable 17's. They only lost 1 that I can remember!! A squadren consisting of one type aircraft makes it through 49 episodes of combat and manages to loose only one, while any entire fleet containing God knows how many squadrens of another type aircraft manages to loose HUNDREDS EVERY EPISODE!!! Man if that is not favoritism I don't know what is! DESIGNING A CANNON FODDER PLANE IS JUST SOOOO WRONG!!!!! I wish Kawamori would go back to designing one VF per series, AND LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY, anything else looks like an inferior aircraft that unfortunate pilots have to fly in order to provide background explosions. I am glad that the VF-171 finally scored some kills, and that the NUNS pilots were portrayed as real fighters; not cowards. I would like to see more NUNS action, and possibly the 171 pilot who bagged the baddies.

It is called plot shield. However I see what you mean, why can't the characters with plot shield fly the same as the CF pilots. The main purpose story wise is it is easier to identify the main heroes in an action scene if their plane is different than the rest. It isn't necessarily saying that the 19 or the 17 is better than the 11.... even though by the numbers they are because they were designed to replace the 11.

[Gubaba]

Call me old, but I miss the days when everybody flew the SAME type of aircraft. Those VF-1's with different colors were alright with me, because it gave the impression that the pilots who survived did so because of their abilities, and not because of the type of plane their were flying. One of my gripes against Macross 7 was that the VF-11's were all cannon fodder, while VF-19's and VF-17's were undestructable! So, all you would have to do is fly one of the "heroic" planes and you had a very good chance of making out alive. Sure, Basara's 19 was destroyed but only after 48 episodes!! How many

VF-11 pilots made it that far?!! And let's not forget Diamond Force and their near-indestructable 17's. They only lost 1 that I can remember!! A squadren consisting of one type aircraft makes it through 49 episodes of combat and manages to loose only one, while any entire fleet containing God knows how many squadrens of another type aircraft manages to loose HUNDREDS EVERY EPISODE!!! Man if that is not favoritism I don't know what is! DESIGNING A CANNON FODDER PLANE IS JUST SOOOO WRONG!!!!! I wish Kawamori would go back to designing one VF per series, AND LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY, anything else looks like an inferior aircraft that unfortunate pilots have to fly in order to provide background explosions. I am glad that the VF-171 finally scored some kills, and that the NUNS pilots were portrayed as real fighters; not cowards. I would like to see more NUNS action, and possibly the 171 pilot who bagged the baddies.

I'm on the fence about this...on the one hand, having a "hero" mecha seems more Gundam-ish than Macross, but on the other hand, what makes more sense for survival: a better Valk, or the same Valk as everybody else but with a custom paint job?

Seriously, the best way to survive the original Macross series is to paint your Valk white, blue, or red...

Edited July 13, 2008 by Gubaba

[Macross007]

I guess all the good 171 pilots were on vacation until now.

Or they received training from SMS pilots ?

[Sumdumgai]

The way they explain why the heroes get to pilot the VF-25 works for me in Macross Frontier. Private Military company doing evaluations of a new variable fighter to get combat data.

In macross 7 Physica was killed when his VF-17 was destroyed. Gamlin was downed in his VF-17. The VF-19F pilots were blown away during Operation Stargazer, and Docker was downed in his VF-19S though he survived. Mylene had her VF-11kai MAXL get messed up, and the VF-19kai was completely destroyed. So it's not like the hero mecha are spared.

I HATED the way the VF-11s were cannon fodders in M7 too.

In Macross Frontier, Alto's already lost one VF-25, and Mihail's VF-25 just got destroyed as well. Lucca's RVF-25 just got damaged. And Ozma was injured pretty badly when his VF-25S took a hit.

Now that we've seen the VF-171 do a PPB punch (or repulse field punch), it makes me wonder if the VF-25 has this technology.

[Mr March]

It's a real advantage to feature hero Valkyries, because sometimes colors aren't enough. For years I didn't even notice Kakizaki's TV version VF-1A was supposed to be a different color scheme from the standard brown. Of course, part of overlooking that has to do with numerous coloring errors in the original SDF Macross series and my assumption the two Valkryies were meant to be the same but were colored wrong all the time. I enjoy the differentiation using hero Valkyries; it makes it some much more enjoyable to follow the action.

My only complaint is when cannon fodder are denied a chance to shine. Were it not for Macross Plus (and an all-too-brief Protect Armor sequence in M7), the VF-11 Thunderbolt would have been a complete waste of design time. That's why I was so happy with the VF-171 getting all the love in episode 14. Gun pod kills, pin-point barrier punches and reaction warhead ownage; it was a real pleasure and they didn't even use a single cast character

That's all I ask: abuse the Valkyrie as much as the story demands, but just give the valkyrie one episode of glory so I can always remember it at it's best.

[Gubaba]

It's a real advantage to feature hero Valkyries, because sometimes colors aren't enough. For years I didn't even notice Kakizaki's TV version VF-1A was supposed to be a different color scheme from the standard brown. Of course, part of overlooking that has to do with numerous coloring errors in the original SDF Macross series and my assumption the two Valkryies were meant to be the same but were colored wrong all the time. I enjoy the differentiation using hero Valkyries; it makes it some much more enjoyable to follow the action.

My only complaint is when cannon fodder are denied a chance to shine. Were it not for Macross Plus (and an all-too-brief Protect Armor sequence in M7), the VF-11 Thunderbolt would have been a complete waste of design time. That's why I was so happy with the VF-171 getting all the love in episode 14. Gun pod kills, pin-point barrier punches and reaction warhead ownage; it was a real pleasure and they didn't even use a single cast character

That's all I ask: abuse the Valkyrie as much as the story demands, but just give the valkyrie one episode of glory so I can always remember it at it's best.

Well...Macross 7's VF-11 did get that very hero-esque transformation sequence that got overused in the latter half of the series. You know what REALLY got no love? The Frontier tanks. Driving one of those? Now THAT's a pathetic job...

[azrael]

In Macross Frontier, Alto's already lost one VF-25, and Mihail's VF-25 just got destroyed as well. Lucca's RVF-25 just got damaged. And Ozma was injured pretty badly when his VF-25S took a hit.

Add that Alto has wrecked his VF twice...Insurance must be high on Skull Team...

[David Hingtgen]

I thought he lost three valks already...

[NoNameSt11]

I thought he lost three valks already...

He's on his 2nd Valk. The first one was damaged, with that individual sortie against a red vajra. It was destroyed in ep.7 saving Luca. Now he's on his 2nd one which has survived so far.

[manwiththemachinegun]

I just about cheered when in the second to last episode a group of VF-11s actually managed to SHOOT DOWN a couple Protodevlin mecha. True half of them were obliterated in the next volley, but they actually did something other than shoot vacuum and die.

Into every life a little luck must fall.

And yeah, its cool the 171s got a chance to shine. This may be the first time we've seen cannon fodder mecha blowing up enemy capital ships without Hero assistance.

Edited July 14, 2008 by manwiththemachinegun

[JB0]

Bad internet meme day!

All I could think of was "Falcon Punch!" when I saw that scene. I am sad, sad man. I was laughing hysterically though.

I was thinking "T-LINK KNUCKLE!"

I'm not sure if that's better or worse.

[d3v]

"This hand of mine glows with an awesome power, it's load roar tells me to grasp victory. MACHIDA PAAAAAANNNCHH!!!"

Edited July 14, 2008 by d3v

[Morpheus]

I'm trying to list the VF-171 armaments now:

- Gunpod x 1 (Sniper rifle optional)

- beam gun x 2 (near cockpit)

- wing hardpoint x 4

- PPB/repulsion field

- head AA laser

Seriously, after VF-171 performance in epi.14, we need at least one NUNS pilot.

[d3v]

I'm trying to list the VF-171 armaments now:

- Gunpod x 1 (Sniper rifle optional)

- beam gun x 2 (near cockpit)

- wing hardpoint x 4

- PPB/repulsion field

- head AA laser

What I'm wondering is if it lost the elbow beam guns and 2 internal missile bays in the legs that the VF-17 had.

Edited July 15, 2008 by d3v

[Mr March]

There appears to be one internal missile launcher per side as opposed to two per side on the VF-17. Also, the VF-171 appears to have four ventral launchers (two per side) on the "knees" of the each leg/engine. There appear to be six hard points on the wings, not three (one rack of three missiles, a missile pod and an lone outboard missile).

So I think it would be:

1 x eight-barrel multipurpose gatling gun pod.

2 x fixed small-bore forward laser guns OR beam guns (mounted left/right of cockpit)

2 x fixed anti-aircraft laser gun turrets (mounted center dorsal in Fighter/head turret in Heavy Battroid)

6 x internal mico-missile launchers (one mounted on each side of the dorsal main fuselage/shoulder; two mounted dorsally on each engine nacelle/knee)

6 x underwing hardpoints

1 x fixed fighter-carried pin-point barrier system

Optional Armament

1 x electromagnetic rail sniper gun pod.

[Master Dex]

I'm trying to list the VF-171 armaments now:

- Gunpod x 1 (Sniper rifle optional)

- beam gun x 2 (near cockpit)

- wing hardpoint x 4

- PPB/repulsion field

- head AA laser

Seriously, after VF-171 performance in epi.14, we need at least one NUNS pilot.

We have a NUNS pilot, Brera. Of course he isn't flying a 171 but still.