eugimon Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 uhm... that canopy is just way too big... the ver 2 1/60 2 seater canopy is too short but that monster is equally wrong, imo.
ruskiiVFaussie Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 Unless the heatshield was halved and slid over itself, that's the only way i can see it working. But it looks off, i gotta drag my books out an check lineart.
eugimon Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 lineart isn't all that consistent... pg 36 of design works shows the detached fuselage and it looks a lot like the hasegawa in terms of proportions. But the VT-1 lineart on pg 42 makes it look a lot more like the ver 2 1/60...
bluemax151 Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 You know there's an old song out there titled "If Loving You Is Wrong, I Don't Wanna Be Right"... or Loving you Is easy because you're beautiful.... Making love with you Is all I want to do.... Loving you Is more than just a dream come true.... And everything that I do Is out of loving you.... No one else can make me feel The colors that you bring.... Stay with me while we grow old.... And we will live each day in spring time.... Because loving you.... Has made my life so beautiful.... And every day of my life Is filled with loving you.... Loving you.... I see your soul come shining through.... And everytime that we.... Oh I'm more in love with you...
Renato Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 lineart isn't all that consistent... pg 36 of design works shows the detached fuselage and it looks a lot like the hasegawa in terms of proportions. But the VT-1 lineart on pg 42 makes it look a lot more like the ver 2 1/60... The VF-1D and the VT-1 have totally different canopy designs. And I know the 1D's design is in no way realistic, I've been thinking that for years, which is why I was not bothered by the inaccuracy of the original 1/60 1D. However, they never made a 1/48 because they said it couldn't be made justice to, so when they said they would finally be possible in this new 1/60 line, I really had my hopes up to see just how they would magically recreate this design. So, yeah, I am just surprised to see that a miracle did not occur and they hardly even bothered. It still looks like a very nice toy and all, I just cannot see what was so impossible about doing this in 1/48 after all.
pochimus prime Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 The VF-1D and the VT-1 have totally different canopy designs. And I know the 1D's design is in no way realistic, I've been thinking that for years, which is why I was not bothered by the inaccuracy of the original 1/60 1D. However, they never made a 1/48 because they said it couldn't be made justice to, so when they said they would finally be possible in this new 1/60 line, I really had my hopes up to see just how they would magically recreate this design. So, yeah, I am just surprised to see that a miracle did not occur and they hardly even bothered. It still looks like a very nice toy and all, I just cannot see what was so impossible about doing this in 1/48 after all. Nah, most likely more costly as they'll have to retool the mold. That's why Yamato designed the new 1/60 to accommodate 1-seater and 2-seater valks.
Twoducks Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 Gorgeous! Please Yamato, don't change the colour. It's perfect!
OmegaD3k Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 (edited) That Hase 1D looks impossible to transform into Battroid mode, due to the extremely long fuselage. It would require a ridiculously long swing bar for the legs to slide over. Even WITH the fuselage being pulled inwards into the chest piece, there will still be a lot of fuselage left exposed, and the proportions would look flat out silly. A quick illustration (with fuselage pushed inwards): If anyone ever made a 1D Hase battroid out of the 1D, I wanna see it! XD Edited August 21, 2008 by OmegaD3k
eriku Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 I'm happy with the 1/60v2 1D design, but that's because it's primarily the colors and head that interest me with the D. I can understand where the criticism of the cockpit is coming from though.
nightmareB4macross Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 The VF-1D and the VT-1 have totally different canopy designs. And I know the 1D's design is in no way realistic, I've been thinking that for years, which is why I was not bothered by the inaccuracy of the original 1/60 1D. However, they never made a 1/48 because they said it couldn't be made justice to, so when they said they would finally be possible in this new 1/60 line, I really had my hopes up to see just how they would magically recreate this design. So, yeah, I am just surprised to see that a miracle did not occur and they hardly even bothered. It still looks like a very nice toy and all, I just cannot see what was so impossible about doing this in 1/48 after all. The desing is realisic, the reason why it seems impossible is because we see so many different versions of the VF-1D that we don't know what to believe. Instead of focusing on the Hasegawa type or the Yamato version it is always best to reflect on the original lineart. I know it has so many discrepancies that it is hard to tell what is going on and how things work, but if you really try hard enough and look closely you can see that the answers have always been there. Interpreting the VF-1D is hard but not impossible, it just depends on how you look at it and what you want; perfect battroid, perfect fighter, or perfect GERWALK, the answer and choice is yours. Eventhough, Yamato and Hasegawa have given us their versions, I must regretfully state they are both very incorrect. Seeing as how Yamato attempted to work backwards from a two seater to a one seater you can still see how the attempt has failed and would have been best if they had worked the version out the other way around. And in being so it has also changed the original concept of our beloved VF-1A/S/J. This VF-1D is okay, but far from what it should have been. Nice attempt, but still failed. Thanks, Yamato.
danth Posted August 21, 2008 Posted August 21, 2008 The Hasegawa canopy is too long, but clearly the 1D does have a longer canopy than all the other VF-1's. It's in all the line art, though how much longer can vary because line art isn't CAD. Yamato's new 1D canopy isn't an "interpretation" so much as a failure. What Renato said was completely correct: Since Yamato said the new 1/60 was designed with two-seaters in mind, I expected an accurate 1D. It turns out the new 1/60 was designed in such a way to make an accurate 1D impossible! Nah, most likely more costly as they'll have to retool the mold. That's why Yamato designed the new 1/60 to accommodate 1-seater and 2-seater valks. I think maybe you've just dismissed an entire argument without understanding it at all. Can you reiterate what you mean?
ruskiiVFaussie Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 The desing is realisic, the reason why it seems impossible is because we see so many different versions of the VF-1D that we don't know what to believe. Instead of focusing on the Hasegawa type or the Yamato version it is always best to reflect on the original lineart. I know it has so many discrepancies that it is hard to tell what is going on and how things work, but if you really try hard enough and look closely you can see that the answers have always been there. Interpreting the VF-1D is hard but not impossible, it just depends on how you look at it and what you want; perfect battroid, perfect fighter, or perfect GERWALK, the answer and choice is yours. Eventhough, Yamato and Hasegawa have given us their versions, I must regretfully state they are both very incorrect. Seeing as how Yamato attempted to work backwards from a two seater to a one seater you can still see how the attempt has failed and would have been best if they had worked the version out the other way around. And in being so it has also changed the original concept of our beloved VF-1A/S/J. This VF-1D is okay, but far from what it should have been. Nice attempt, but still failed. Thanks, Yamato. Again, can't wait for the 2 seater kits.
nightmareB4macross Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Again, can't wait for the 2 seater kits. December 2008. Start counting those pennies.
Renato Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Nah, most likely more costly as they'll have to retool the mold. That's why Yamato designed the new 1/60 to accommodate 1-seater and 2-seater valks. I don't get it. How extensive is the cockpit/fuselage retooling on the 1/60 then? Are you saying you would not need retooling for a 1/60 1D? It ended up looking the same as the other VF-1s! If it was totally different, I would understand how the 1/60 v2 was designed to accomodate both designs with minimal retools. Since it isn't, there's not much argument left for saying it's a whole retooling process which wouldn't have worked in 1/48. Crux of the matter: WHY does changing the head, chestplate and adding an extra seat (and a couple of other minor changes) warrant a huge retool o the 1/48, but not on the 1/60? Those minimal changes were not what I expected when I heard that they were "designed to accommodate 2 seaters". If it sounds like I'm ranting, I apologise. I only want to clear up this mystery.
pochimus prime Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 (edited) I don't get it. How extensive is the cockpit/fuselage retooling on the 1/60 then? Are you saying you would not need retooling for a 1/60 1D? It ended up looking the same as the other VF-1s! If it was totally different, I would understand how the 1/60 v2 was designed to accomodate both designs with minimal retools. Since it isn't, there's not much argument left for saying it's a whole retooling process which wouldn't have worked in 1/48. Crux of the matter: WHY does changing the head, chestplate and adding an extra seat (and a couple of other minor changes) warrant a huge retool o the 1/48, but not on the 1/60? Those minimal changes were not what I expected when I heard that they were "designed to accommodate 2 seaters". If it sounds like I'm ranting, I apologise. I only want to clear up this mystery. It's my best guess on why Yamato chose not to remold the fuselage for the 1D. IMO, the current set-up is still a good compromise, considering that the only way to make a perfect 1D would be to make an all-new mold. Most likely, such a move wouldn't be as cost-effective as having a common mold that can be reused for all VF-1 versions. Also, I was talking about why there's no significant change for the 1/60 1D compared to those already released I have no say on why there's no 1D retool for the 1/48. From what I see, the longer fuselage would most likely necessitate more design work to make the 1D's look in all modes balanced (which the ver 2 1/60's did, so I can easily forgive the compromise done to the 1D). So, all I'm saying is that projected ROI will dictate Yamato's decision regarding an accurate 1D and from the looks of it, when it comes to VF-1s, they may have found it inefficient to make a separate 1D mold for what is essentially a VF-1 variant. Of course, this is all just guesswork on my part and I'm looking at it on the business side of things rather than on the design/engineering side. There's really no denying that the 1D is inaccurate, but as far as transformable toys go, none is and I'm guessing none will for a long time. One very big block to this is that companies would rather make a mold that they can use for a mass-market product, or which they can squeeze out with as much repaints and/or minimal retool as possible to keep costs down and maintain a certain level of profitability. With regard to the inaccuracies of the upcoming 1D to the lineart, I don't find it as disappointing as it should and I still actually love what's been shown Edited August 22, 2008 by pochimus prime
ruskiiVFaussie Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 (edited) December 2008. Start counting those pennies. december? damn, ok, don't hit us too hard though. make them double jointed arms and 'll buy 3 single seater kits! (custom valk, Hik 1J and Hik 1S) Give me reason to dodge the v.2's. Edited August 22, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie
nightmareB4macross Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 ...Give me reason to dodge the v.2's. I would have thought by looking at Yamato's new v2 1/60 you have decided to dodge it like a bad habit, or a diseased hooka wanting to give you a free bj and showing you her bright and bloody red open herpetic sores atop her lips. (sorry for being so graphic, but you asked for it)
Dangard Ace Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 You guys talking about 2 seater kits and replacement double jointed arms better bet talking about them for the 1/60 valks otherwise you're off topic AND there's already a tread talking about that here which you're already posting in.
ruskiiVFaussie Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 (edited) I would have thought by looking at Yamato's new v2 1/60 you have decided to dodge it like a bad habit, or a diseased hooka wanting to give you a free bj and showing you her bright and bloody red open herpetic sores atop her lips. (sorry for being so graphic, but you asked for it) For me it all about poseability, so of course i'll dodge them now with confirmed double jointeness! I'll get like... '2' 1 seater 1/60's now probably.. But deffinently getting the 1D 1/60. and VT-1. Don't worry i'm decensortized. My wife and I are watching a Friday the 13th marathon.... CHHCHHCHHCHHCHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAH. really excited for the kits! Sorry dangard. Edited August 22, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie
transfan52 Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 personally I think yamato is making a mistake with the scruntched up cockpit... it looks waay too cramped in the back... I cant see someone sitting comfortable in the backseat that way... and from what the line art shows the cockpit is at least a 3rd larger than the rest... IMO yamato just doesn't wanna waste time and money on a unique mold so instead they're giving us a slightly modified mold... but it is almost the same thing. Cmon it cant be that difficult to redesign and change some thing to make it more accurate.
renkenjutsu Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 We're all (or most of us) still going to buy it anyway I think it looks fabulous!
m0n5t3r Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 We're all (or most of us) still going to buy it anyway I think it looks fabulous! i will...
Valkyrie addict Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 hmmmm...I was initially not a big fan of the bubble canopy but when I got my 1/60 v2.0 is not that noticeable for me, so I don't think this will bother me too much, although I would prefer the longer sleeker canopy of the VT but hey, life isn't perfect
bluemax151 Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 We're all (or most of us) still going to buy it anyway I think it looks fabulous! +1 I honestly wasn't big on the trainer until I got Yamato's ver1 1/60 and now it's one of the only ver1s I still fiddle with on occasion. I'm not sure why but it just has this certain charm to me now. I'm not real big on canon or official so if the design is "flubbed" a bit I won't care as long as it works.
Dobber Posted August 23, 2008 Posted August 23, 2008 Meh! I'm disappointed that all they did was apparently take the standard canopy and just move the frame/bar forward. I'm passing. Chris
pochimus prime Posted August 23, 2008 Posted August 23, 2008 Cmon it cant be that difficult to redesign and change some thing to make it more accurate. Not difficult, but may not be cost-effective. As much as we all love the 2-seaters, they won't be as much a mainstream product as 1A, 1J, or 1S. The longer canopy would entail a (at the very least a slight) redesign of the chest area transformation to make it look good in battroid.
Raptor One Posted August 23, 2008 Posted August 23, 2008 I wonder what's gonna happen with the VT and VE
danth Posted August 23, 2008 Posted August 23, 2008 I wonder what's gonna happen with the VT and VE Those don't have long canopies, so they'll be okay. If you look really closely, the VT and VE canopies are just slightly longer and extend forward just a bit (up to the black circle around the nose).
miriya Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Regardless of all the great points you guys are all making about this not being perfect, I am still extremely excited about this toy and looking forward to owning it more than any other toy right now. From the photos I am very happy but I also am not as knowledgeable about proper cockpit size, canopy shape and what is the official unspoken word secretly hidden in Kawamori's cryptic line art. This thing rocks. Thanks Yamato (not sarcastic). Of course if NMB4M does make the 1/48 conversion available, then I will need that too.
Renato Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Yeah, I'm still looking forward to it, no matter. I just expected to be wowed, but, alas. Looks good anyway. Now, I'm gonna cross my fingers while knocking on wood as I wait for this thing to come out without any breakage reports. Hey, we should call the next Yamato thread "BREAKING NEWS", haha.
misterryno Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Of course if NMB4M does make the 1/48 conversion available, then I will need that too. Of course he will
danth Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 ...I also am not as knowledgeable about proper cockpit size, canopy shape and what is the official unspoken word secretly hidden in Kawamori's cryptic line art. Dude, there's nothing cryptic about it. The 1D's cockpit is undeniably longer in the lineart. If you still like the toy, that's great. But let's not pretend it's all just some mystery. The 1D toy canopy is wrong.
Rabidweezil Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 What I remember from the line-art was that the nose was indeed longer in fighter mode, but it magically shrunk quite a bit in Battroid mode. I don't know how all you unhappy people expect a physical representation of the VF-1D to somehow incorporate the anime magic that was clearly present in the series. If they made the nose longer for fighter mode...then the "the Battroid nose it to long!" crowd would be chanting.
miriya Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Dude, there's nothing cryptic about it. The 1D's cockpit is undeniably longer in the lineart. If you still like the toy, that's great. But let's not pretend it's all just some mystery. The 1D toy canopy is wrong. OK, you are right. I have looked at the line art and it is different than the VF-1/A/S/J. Sorry.
miriya Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 What I remember from the line-art was that the nose was indeed longer in fighter mode, but it magically shrunk quite a bit in Battroid mode. I don't know how all you unhappy people expect a physical representation of the VF-1D to somehow incorporate the anime magic that was clearly present in the series. If they made the nose longer for fighter mode...then the "the Battroid nose it to long!" crowd would be chanting. Word. You are right about that.
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