Macross Frontier Episode 14 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Master Dex]

Generally when something gouges out that much of a planet, one would expect to see a rather fiery core. Since we don't, I wouldn't let scientific realism interfere with any ideas about what state Gallia 4 might be in now.

It most likely did have not completely solid core, but when half of the planet is taken away that core is exposed to the deep cold of space. It most likely froze. It is the heat and pressure of the planet's crust that keeps all that so hot. When lava makes its way to the top it eventually solidifies because of cooling.

Of course they did say while Gallia 4 has a breathable atmosphere they also said it wasn't inhabitable. Also its rotation is fixed as stated in ep.11 so with no rotation it may very well not have a liquid core. However I would assume it did since it had a stable enough magnetic field to keep the star from roasting the atmosphere off.

[DarkReaper]

Yeah that's what disturbed me most about the ravaged planet. For it to look like that it would have to be a geologically dead and cold planet like the moon. I would have expected it to look more like that

,except with the left side still intact. The way they depicted it made it look more like a joke. I guess the bomb somehow "cauterized", flash-cooled or whatever the liquid core at it's boundary and the rest of the planet didn't have time to go through any changes yet.

As the bomb doesn't explode and deposit any energy into the planet but rather simply made anything it comes into contact with to disappear, it would explain the latter but not how there's no magma especially as the bomb reached deep into the mantle. The sudden loss of pressure from all the upper layers of stone vanishing would have meant that the magma would have violently expanded. Now depending on if the pressure change already occurs progressively while the bomb is still active, it could happen that all the ejecta vanished as well and the rest of the core cooled down accordingly. If the pressure change happens instantanously when the bomb imploded would mean a plume of magma shooting out of the planet, sort of like a volcano the size of Gallia 4.

Edited July 13, 2008 by DarkReaper

[Master Dex]

I think it just froze still.. there is a lot of heat interally and a big hole opens up and the heat goes out of the hole. Heat likes to travel where it isn't, it moves to where there is less pressure so I think in the few minutes after that part of the planet was cut off a lot of heat escape into space causing the inner liquids to freeze and solidify.

[Mr March]

To say Gallia 4 could have a far different internal composition than that of our own planet is an understatement. While the damage done to the planet from the Dimension Eater was considerable, Gallia 4 could very well have a small core or none at all, like some moons. We don't know the size, density, structure, rotation, or distance from Gallia 4's star to even begin dissecting what the planet would/should look like inside.

That, and the fact that Macross is a long way from hard sci-fi

Edited July 13, 2008 by Mr March

[eugimon]

To say Gallia 4 could have a far different internal composition than that of our own planet is an understatement. While the damage done to the planet from the Dimension Eater was considerable, Gallia 4 could very well have a small core or none at all, like some moons. We don't know the size, density, structure, rotation, or distance from Gallia 4's star to even begin dissecting what the planet would/should look like inside.

That, and the fact that Macross is a long way from hard sci-fi

Yup, we don't know much about the planet, it could be smaller or of lower mass compared to Earth, making for a cold core, like Mars. It could be closer to system's sun enabling human inhabitation. IMO, it's the mistake of the viewer to assume a molten core.

And if there were a molten core, being exposed to space wouldn't freeze it. Without some sort of medium to conduct heat into (such as atmosphere or water) it would take a very very long time for that much heat to radiate away into space.

Edited July 13, 2008 by eugimon

[junior]

It most likely did have not completely solid core, but when half of the planet is taken away that core is exposed to the deep cold of space. It most likely froze. It is the heat and pressure of the planet's crust that keeps all that so hot. When lava makes its way to the top it eventually solidifies because of cooling.

Anything that froze that quickly would undergo some serious cracking as the density of the planet's core changed rapidly from liquid to solid.

That, and the fact that Macross is a long way from hard sci-fi

Exactly. So just as we shouldn't worry too much about the depiction of the planet's core, we likewise shouldn't worry too much about the atmosphere. Frontier isn't hard sci-fi, and the planet isn't reacting in a way that really fits with real world physics as we understand them.

[DarkReaper]

I think it just froze still.. there is a lot of heat interally and a big hole opens up and the heat goes out of the hole. Heat likes to travel where it isn't, it moves to where there is less pressure so I think in the few minutes after that part of the planet was cut off a lot of heat escape into space causing the inner liquids to freeze and solidify.

I don't think that space could have cooled it down fast enough, after all in space energy can only be dissipated by radiation which isn't a very effective process, especially with such a huge heat capacity a planet has. In any way depending on core temperature most of it may already have vaporised when there wasn't enough pressure anymore to keep it in it's liquid-solid state. If it dissipated energy through expansion there would still be a whole lot of material floating out there until the gravity would eventually catch it again.

Besides it would have looked way cooler to see a fiery inferno spewing forth from the planet, instead of pac-man eating lunch.

Edited July 13, 2008 by DarkReaper

[darkrealmbahamut]

But he already out ranks him. That's the point. He's his superior already. Skull 2, next in line, Seniority. He was "shoui-dono" when Alto first joined the SMS.

They may be in the same year at Mihoshi, but in SMS Michel's is the sempai, even if Alto wouldn't be caught dead calling him that.

Being squadron leader isn't a "rank". It's a post you may aquire due to your rank experience. And when it comes to that, Michel has more. Heck even Luca does. And who assigns someone a militairy position because they performed a movie stunt? Alto is talented, but hotheaded and reckless. Not exactly the prime candidate for a command post.

But we also have to remember he is our main hero and we don't known if Mikhail is out of commission for a bit because of his injury. Crap for that matter we still have to pick up Luca who got tagged in the last battle. Plus since Mikhail is long range not in the thick of things I think he wouldn't get the nod.

[VF-25 Messiah]

But we also have to remember he is our main hero and we don't known if Mikhail is out of commission for a bit because of his injury. Crap for that matter we still have to pick up Luca who got tagged in the last battle. Plus since Mikhail is long range not in the thick of things I think he wouldn't get the nod.

I'm sure if Mikhail is out of commission for a little a while, he'll be back in working before Ozma bites it

Anyway, what it basicly boils down to is us disagreeing on if being the main char is going to be the ticket needed for attaining the squad leader position or not. Suggest we just drop the ball and leave it at that

[Master Dex]

Eh, of course it isn't hard sci-fi. That is why such a simple explanation as freezing can work, even if it really wouldn't make sense scientifically. In the end it really doesn't matter. The animators chose not to show mantel spewing out from it or they did decide the planet does not have the same core composition. In this case Kawamori may not even know as he was probably more interested in how the 25 looked with the half-planet backdrop behind it.

[darkrealmbahamut]

I'm sure if Mikhail is out of commission for a little a while, he'll be back in working before Ozma bites it

Anyway, what it basicly boils down to is us disagreeing on if being the main char is going to be the ticket needed for attaining the squad leader position or not. Suggest we just drop the ball and leave it at that

Hey I am hoping Mikhail gets the nod just have a feeling he won't.

most likely we are both wrong and they will place some else who we didn't see coming lol

Edited July 13, 2008 by darkrealmbahamut

[VF-25 Messiah]

Hey I am hoping Mikhail gets the nod just have a feeling he won't.

most likely we are both wrong and they will place some else who we didn't see coming lol

Brera Sterne He's a Major after all

[darkrealmbahamut]

Brera Sterne He's a Major after all

You know that would actually be an interesting twist.

[beertax]

I am almost certain that the writers behind Frontier didn't think twice about the state of the planet Gallia 4. They just drew that in and moved on.

My one main issue with Macross Frontier is the fact that the guy who drives Macross Quarter in battle mode is someone who acts and is probably gay. The character just doesn't fit, in my opinion. I think someone who drives such an awesome machine and blasts away Vajraa motherships should be more of a macho guy, like for exmaple the gatling-arm guy from Final Fantasy XII.

I am not a homophobe, just saying the character doesn't fit that role, and it bothers me.

[junior]

Bobby's gay, but that doesn't mean that he's constantly effeminate. He's very aggressive and intimidating when the situation demands it. Case in point is episode 9, when he threatens Elmo for not managing Ranka's publicity well enough.

Anime's been full of gay characters that have been anything but effeminate, dating back to at least the original Daley Wong in Bubblegum Crisis 2032.

Edited July 13, 2008 by junior

[Vinnie]

Bobby's gay, but that doesn't mean that he's constantly effeminate. He's very aggressive and intimidating when the situation demands it. Case in point is episode 9, when he threatens Elmo for not managing Ranka's publicity well enough.

Anime's been full of gay characters that have been anything but effeminate, dating back to at least the original Daley Wong in Bubblegum Crisis 2032.

I'd even be so bold as to say he's on a fair number of occassions more masculine than our protagonist, Alto. I'm glad to see he's not the overly cliched gay guy and think the feminine aspects of his personality allows a good chemistry with the bridge bunnies while his more masculine aspects are exactly what the OP was looking for in someone handling Macross Quarter.

Edited July 13, 2008 by Vinnie

[Gubaba]

I am almost certain that the writers behind Frontier didn't think twice about the state of the planet Gallia 4. They just drew that in and moved on.

My one main issue with Macross Frontier is the fact that the guy who drives Macross Quarter in battle mode is someone who acts and is probably gay. The character just doesn't fit, in my opinion. I think someone who drives such an awesome machine and blasts away Vajraa motherships should be more of a macho guy, like for exmaple the gatling-arm guy from Final Fantasy XII.

I am not a homophobe, just saying the character doesn't fit that role, and it bothers me.

Because, of course, every homosexual man is always completely nellie, and there are ABSOLUTELY no gays in the military, sports, or any other "manly" profession, right?

And perhaps the writers are deliberately TRYING to mess with your expectations by having him pilot the Macross Quarter...? Maybe...?

[David Hingtgen]

Switching topics back to Mikhail---I personally kinda hope he's out of commission for a while, and so Sheryl gets a valk. (hey, we need more colors, and whatever happened to the one that looks like Alto's but has purplish striping we saw in the early promo material?) (yes, the most likely answer is that was just an animation test, but it would be neat to have a valk with purple markings) (the VF-27 doesn't count, it's more like magenta, and pretty close to Nora's)

Also, if Sheryl becomes a decent pilot, then that makes a Minmei attack all the more likely/plausible. She'd be kinda like Basara, but not a pacifist...

[junior]

Switching topics back to Mikhail---I personally kinda hope he's out of commission for a while, and so Sheryl gets a valk. (hey, we need more colors, and whatever happened to the one that looks like Alto's but has purplish striping we saw in the early promo material?) (yes, the most likely answer is that was just an animation test, but it would be neat to have a valk with purple markings) (the VF-27 doesn't count, it's more like magenta, and pretty close to Nora's)

Also, if Sheryl becomes a decent pilot, then that makes a Minmei attack all the more likely/plausible. She'd be kinda like Basara, but not a pacifist...

Sheryl would need more training first, though. You can't go from "barely knowing how to fly" to "high performance jet fighter pilot" overnight (as episode 14 shows). I think having her in the pilot's seat would fit with her personality. But we'll have to wait and see what happens.

And then there's the episode preview summaries for the next few episodes that have been released to date...

[Steve]

Bobby's hilarious but this is such a culture thing, things are a little more free in other parts of the world...

[beertax]

Bobby's hilarious but this is such a culture thing, things are a little more free in other parts of the world...

well signme up for being a victim of US of A's protestant straight-laced culture. I don't mind gay characters in anime but just not as the helmsman of a transforming giant battleship. Can't help feeling that way.

[Gubaba]

well signme up for being a victim of US of A's protestant straight-laced culture. I don't mind gay characters in anime but just not as the helmsman of a transforming giant battleship. Can't help feeling that way.

Why is what Bobby does with his penis so important to you...?

[David Hingtgen]

Sheryl would need more training first, though. You can't go from "barely knowing how to fly" to "high performance jet fighter pilot" overnight (as episode 14 shows). I think having her in the pilot's seat would fit with her personality.

Yes you can. Shin goes from can't walk/GERWALK at all, to an expert, in one ep of ZERO. Yes, he could already fly (and well), but that's only 1/3 of a valk's operations. So Sheryl (she of amazing confidence and skill) could certainly do so in just a few eps. Hikaru also gets pretty good with battroid and GERWALK pretty fast...

PS, about Bobby----when a *mod* mentions that he's switching topics in a thread, that's usually a hint.

[aerocombatpilot]

My one main issue with Macross Frontier is the fact that the guy who drives Macross Quarter in battle mode is someone who acts and is probably gay. The character just doesn't fit, in my opinion. I think someone who drives such an awesome machine and blasts away Vajraa motherships should be more of a macho guy, like for exmaple the gatling-arm guy from Final Fantasy XII.

I am not a homophobe, just saying the character doesn't fit that role, and it bothers me.

Think back to the the original Macross and DYRL. The position that Bobby has on the Macross Quarter is the same position that Claudia LaSalle (Claudia Grant in Robotech) had. HER job was piloting the SDF-1 plus firing the main guns, and SHE was not a macho guy but a WOMAN. Typically in the Macross universe, the bridge crew is usually all women with the exception of the Captain who is male. We had it in Macross, DYRL, Macross Plus, and Macross 7. Flashback 2012 is the first time we have a woman as Captain, but we don't know the makeup of the bridge crew. My gripe against Bobby lies not in the character but in his design!! Claudia was one of my favorite characters in Macross, AND I DID NOT LIKE HER BEING REPLACED WITH A DARK SKINNED GAY MAN WITH AN AFRO!!!( but I'll calm down, lest I make my Macross 7 retoric look like child's play when it comes to this issue) The bottom is that the bridge crews have been dominated by women who could get the job done. As for Kawamori's reason for putting Bobby there I don't know, but I am sure it is not because he needed a macho man for that position; Claudia proved that!!

P.S.

Don't let Bobby bother you, the series is half over (I think) and he doesn't appear to have that important a role in the series. Apart from flying Macross Quarter and talking to Ranka and Ozma, we dont see very much of him.

[Gubaba]

Yes you can. Shin goes from can't walk/GERWALK at all, to an expert, in one ep of ZERO. Yes, he could already fly (and well), but that's only 1/3 of a valk's operations. So Sheryl (she of amazing confidence and skill) could certainly do so in just a few eps. Hikaru also gets pretty good with battroid and GERWALK pretty fast...

PS, about Bobby----when a *mod* mentions that he's switching topics in a thread, that's usually a hint.

Sorry, sorry...couldn't resist.

IIRC, Haikaru didn't get "good" with a battroid until after episode 6. So, really, all Sheryl needs is a training montage, and she'll be fine.

But if the real enemy is Galaxy, as others have suggested, does that mean she would hesitate when pulling the trigger (because it's her home), or just pull it faster (because she hates it there)?

[junior]

Yes you can. Shin goes from can't walk/GERWALK at all, to an expert, in one ep of ZERO. Yes, he could already fly (and well), but that's only 1/3 of a valk's operations. So Sheryl (she of amazing confidence and skill) could certainly do so in just a few eps. Hikaru also gets pretty good with battroid and GERWALK pretty fast...

Hikaru's also already an amazing pilot (he flew for his family's air show, and he arrives in a stunt plane). And iirc, SDFM makes it clear that it's more or less glossing over Hikaru's Valk training.

Shin does get good quickly with the VF-0, but he still has to learn how to properly think about what he's doing. Early on he gets his head handed to him repeatedly in training because he keeps thinking in terms of fighter piloting instead of Variable Fighter.

[Beltane70]

Going back to Galia IV, it looked like the planet did manage to keep its atmosphere. You can still see the faint, bluish haze surrounding the planet.

[taksraven]

Also its rotation is fixed as stated in ep.11 so with no rotation it may very well not have a liquid core. However I would assume it did since it had a stable enough magnetic field to keep the star from roasting the atmosphere off.

I think you are right on that one. The planet shows the same side to the sun all the time and that should cause the core to be stable rather than molten.

Taksraven

[Valkyrie addict]

maybe ogotai did survived the dimension eater, he just needed to be on the other side of the planet...

[grss1982]

The beancounters and guys in provisioning may feel a little different about it ... Those things don't look cheap.

Indeed. With all that Alto has destroyed & lost, them beam counters and guys in provisioning will be hopping mad by now. I just now those guys are dreading the final battle of this series.

Well I feel he didn't need to get rid of the boosters which provided extra thrust. Yes he exhausted the outboard missile launchers but that is no reason to decrease your possible top acceleration. Unless it was unsaid that the boosters were out of their on board propellant and had nothing left for the nuclear engines to heat then it would be a good idea to jettison. However they didn't imply that so I take points off for randomly jettisoning booster parts (Ozma did that as well in ep.3 when he used super parts but I believe his boosters were damaged then because it was after he was hit). The rest of what he did was economical and ok in my book though.

Some protection as well, since those parts actually encase the entire wing in armor.

[Major Focker]

galia4 has not stopped rotating, if it did while still revolving around a "sun" it would still get day/night cycles.

it's in synchronous rotation where the rate of rotation is equal to to the rate of revolution thus keeping one side facing the center of revolution. the moon is a well know example of synchronous rotation with respect to earth.

[Mr March]

eugimon and Master Dex

Actually, there could have already been such a molten explosion come and gone. Core materials could have ejected from the exposure and shot out into space. But once vacuum and gravity took effect after the Dimension Eater energy diffused, Gallia 4 would experience a planet-wide temperature drop from the atmosphere losing a major portion and as the remaining atmosphere rushes into the now exposed deformation due to gravity. At the same time the outer edges of the deformation collapse inward under gravity, creating a massive continent-sized pit of debris. The ejecta also begins to decelerate due to gravity and begins forming a halo of material in orbit around the deformation, which the anime clearly shows.

It's also possible the core itself could have been drained by the Dimension Eater. Once the dense material around the planet's core is removed so instantaneously, the exposed molten core literally explodes into the Dimension Eater, aided by the sucking effect of the anomaly. The core empties, creating a massive inward crushing of material from the remaining planet, creating a vast trough of debris, like we see in the anime.

That was fun

On a slightly OT issue...

As for Bobby and his gayness, I suspect some can't find him believable since we've all been raised on stereotyped gays, women, asians, latinos, blacks, etc. Having said that, anyone who's watched The Wire can tell you Omar is the toughest, smartest, most manly villain television has seen in years and he just happens to be gay. Last proper male role model we had on TV was Malcolm Reynolds and they canceled Firefly

[dreamweaver13]

well signme up for being a victim of US of A's protestant straight-laced culture. I don't mind gay characters in anime but just not as the helmsman of a transforming giant battleship. Can't help feeling that way.

please. when he goes alpha-male mode, he's more macho then every straight guy on frontier combined. Bobby pwns their asses.

um... ok, that last part didn't sound right. haha.

[ackem]

please. when he goes alpha-male mode, he's more macho then every straight guy on frontier combined. Bobby pwns their asses.

um... ok, that last part didn't sound right. haha.

And don't forget, who else could Ozma have gotten that line about stay close enough to smell his ass from?

[eugimon]

Mr March:

I don't think that's the case...

Theory 1: Molten Core Exploded into space: Again, space, while cold, does not have much (any) ability to conduct heat. Thus, if the molten core had exploded into space, there should still have been visible the molten bubble of the core as it catastrophically escaped the core. However, given enormous size of the cavity caused by the DE, I doubt such an explosion would have taken place.

Theory 2: Dimensioin Eater pulled in the core: The first reason is "in unvierse", the only other example of a spherical fold phenomena was the SDF-1's initial jump from the Earth. In that case, the fold bubble was surrounded by a much less viscous and dense fluid (water) which wasn't drawn up into the fold bubble. Instead, the fold bubble merely ported away what was already in the confines of the bubble. From that, I think we can assume that fold phenomena does not have the ability to pull in nearby matter.

Theory 3: This goes to the intent of the animation. While the idea of the cavity from the removed core is plausible, from the visuals shown, I think we can assume that the animators intended to illustrate that the DE created a spherical fold bubble. The edges are too clean and there's a complete lack of deformation or debris.

Also, there's no reason to assume that even if the core were molten, it would spew out in giant ribbons. The core would still be incredibly dense gravity would still be in effect, it would WANT to stay together and not fling itself out into space. If anything, given enough time, gravity and the forces of erosion would eventually pull the planet back into a spherical shape. Remember, Gallia 4 wasn't hit by some huge mass, there's no force that cracked the cust or would have caused ejecta of any sort.