BattleTech Tribute to Macross

[theplasticwerks]

I'm not sure if this qualifies as toys or models...yes, I painted them, but MechWarrior minis are preassembled...

Anyway, as you just read, I took some MechWarrior: Dark Age/Age of Destruction minis and painted them up all Macross-like. You often see things such as Yamato Jetfires, or Nichimo Macross kits used as miniatures. For the uninitiated, virtually every mecha design from the original SDF Macross series appeared in the earliest version of the BattleTech game as visual imports. Eventually Harmony Gold caught up, things went down, and all those designs were lost. The visual designs were recommissed with Project Phoenix, which produced the Reseen versions of these designs.

MechWarrior minis are cheaper than ever, so I grabbed up three Stingers (the redesign of the VF-1A lineart), a Phoenix Hawk I (a downscaled redesign of the Super VF-1S), and a Wasp (the redesign of the VF-1S) and painted them up in tribute:

These guys are still works in progress, but I was excited to show them off.

Unfortunately there wasn't really a VF-1J analog in BattleTech - the Reseen Valkyrie looks closest to a redesigned 1J, although the Unseen Valkyrie was also a VF-1S analog, and sadly, the Valkyrie was never produced in the Dark Age scale - I could go and reproduce everything in Classic scale, but minis are still $8-$12 apiece - Dark Age minis cost about a buck each these days for common units. If you want to donate, I'll gladly accept

At some point, I'll get around to doing CF and TV Max/Kakizaki Stingers. Maybe a Hikaru and Max Phoenix Hawk[i/] as well.

Enjoy.

[baronv]

Nice stuff, didn't know BT tweaked the Macross designs.

[theplasticwerks]

Nice stuff, didn't know BT tweaked the Macross designs.

Yep. There are pretty nice nods to the original designs, too - the Stingers (as you can see) have antenna that face like VF-1A head lasers, the Wasp actually has divots molded into its ankles where the yellow dots are (the legs on that 'Mech in general look very VF-1ish, especially the feet), there are raised panels where the heatshields usually are on all the designs (and the Stingers have "air brakes!"). The Stingers also have extended elbow bits, the Phoenix Hawk's backpack looks like a pair of inverted FAST packs (and the legs have strong FAST Pack influences as well)...wonderful tributes all around.

You can check out all the Project Phoenix redesigns here: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Technical_Readout:_Project_Phoenix

[renkenjutsu]

One of BT's starfighters are even reminiscent of gerwalks if I recall. In the early technical readouts, there's a few mechs following the valkyrie design to a T in battroid. Ahhh... the good old times...

Edited July 4, 2008 by renkenjutsu

[theplasticwerks]

One of BT's starfighters are even reminiscent of gerwalks if I recall. In the early technical readouts, there's a few mechs following the valkyrie design to a T in battroid. Ahhh... the good old times...

Hell, BattleTech lifted the entire variable fighter concept - Land-Air 'Mechs (LAM). They even have gerwalk (LAM) modes.

[thegunny]

Hell, BattleTech lifted the entire variable fighter concept - Land-Air 'Mechs (LAM). They even have gerwalk (LAM) modes.

Why don't you get your facts straight

FASA did not lift the concept as you incorrectly put it, Jordan Weisman licensed the designs from the various companies in Japan who owned them. It was only when Playmates US started making their toys based on those designs and it all slipped down into the hands of the grubby ambulance chasing lawyers and the rediculous US copyright system that things got messy.

BTW FASA won the court action but due to being shafted by some dodgy rulings decided to pull the designs as they didn't want to go through any more court cases.

[theplasticwerks]

Why don't you get your facts straight

I freely admit I am not an authority on the Unseen designs and was typing from what I remembered, or thought I did.

[big F]

I have most of the original Ral Partha casts and they are great. Eventually it is my aim to get a Macross chess set done using the Ral Partha's as a base plus the small scale stuff done here by one partcular member at MW. The original line art books are a mecha must IMO.

[Cache]

FASA did not lift the concept as you incorrectly put it, Jordan Weisman licensed the designs from the various companies in Japan who owned them.

not correct. FASA received a license from TCI (Twentieth Century Imports) to sell the various small scale Macross, Dougram, and Crusher Joe kits as BattleTech kits. this is similar to how Revell marketed larger kits from various series as Robotech Defenders. whether or not that was a proper license for how much they integrated the designs will never be determined--see below.

It was only when Playmates US started making their toys based on those designs and it all slipped down into the hands of the grubby ambulance chasing lawyers and the rediculous US copyright system that things got messy.

BTW FASA won the court action but due to being shafted by some dodgy rulings decided to pull the designs as they didn't want to go through any more court cases.

the real problem actually came from the Japanese side of the Pacific. up until a few years ago the issue of which Japanese company owns the Macross licencse was never cleared up. heck, it still may not be, i haven't checked into it lately. several companies were selling licences and all claimed to be the rightful owners.

there were several court actions filed by both FASA and Harmony Gold/Playmates over various issues related to using Macross and BattleTech-original 'Mech designs. to my knowledge the court never decided the issue--both parties agreed to an out of court settlement in order to end the financial drain the lawsuits had become. (one court document showed Harmony Gold requesting that FASA pay their $5 million+ in legal fees. the judge said no. you can bet FASA spent nearly the same amount though.) since it is a private settlement we will never know all of the details. all we do know is that FASA dropped all out-of-house designs and now WizKids has continued that policy. Harmony Gold/Playmates also ceased production of a set of disputed designs--those greatly (and not-so-greatly) resembling original BattleTech designs, including the Mad Cat.

[yellowlightman]

Harmony Gold/Playmates also ceased production of a set of disputed designs--those greatly (and not-so-greatly) resembling original BattleTech designs, including the Mad Cat.

Er, what designs would those be?

[thegunny]

Gee looks as if you know more about this than the people involved

Get a copy the Phoenix Upgrades Record Sheets and you'll get an account of the whole story from the people who were ACTUALLY involved in the whole saga.

not correct. FASA received a license from TCI (Twentieth Century Imports) to sell the various small scale Macross, Dougram, and Crusher Joe kits as BattleTech kits. this is similar to how Revell marketed larger kits from various series as Robotech Defenders. whether or not that was a proper license for how much they integrated the designs will never be determined--see below.

the real problem actually came from the Japanese side of the Pacific. up until a few years ago the issue of which Japanese company owns the Macross licencse was never cleared up. heck, it still may not be, i haven't checked into it lately. several companies were selling licences and all claimed to be the rightful owners.

there were several court actions filed by both FASA and Harmony Gold/Playmates over various issues related to using Macross and BattleTech-original 'Mech designs. to my knowledge the court never decided the issue--both parties agreed to an out of court settlement in order to end the financial drain the lawsuits had become. (one court document showed Harmony Gold requesting that FASA pay their $5 million+ in legal fees. the judge said no. you can bet FASA spent nearly the same amount though.) since it is a private settlement we will never know all of the details. all we do know is that FASA dropped all out-of-house designs and now WizKids has continued that policy. Harmony Gold/Playmates also ceased production of a set of disputed designs--those greatly (and not-so-greatly) resembling original BattleTech designs, including the Mad Cat.

[Cache]

Er, what designs would those be?

i'll try to post a picture of the MadCat clone when i get home. i'd have to pour through the court documents to get the names of the others, and i don't have time for that.

[Cache]

Gee looks as if you know more about this than the people involved

Get a copy the Phoenix Upgrades Record Sheets and you'll get an account of the whole story from the people who were ACTUALLY involved in the whole saga.

Does the RS:PPU version mention the FASA employee who took BattleTech designs to Harmony Gold/Playmates in order to obtain a deal to market toy plastic 'Mechs? Does it mention said employee signed legal waivers he had no authority to sign? Does it mention how Harmony Gold/Playmates accidentally forwarded copies company documents to FASA and the legal battle over them?

I have RS:PPU and have read the account printed there. It is an interesting account but it was not written by the people involved in the lawsuit saga. I don't know more than the people involved, nor do the current BattleTech developers and writers. To my knowledge, none of those people involved in the lawsuit are involved in BattleTech anymore... haven't been for quite some time. However, I am willing and able to provide much more public information than the current powers that be. I have been following this issue for over 10 years and have seen the court transcripts as well as the original rec.games.mecha announcements from the FASA heads at the time of said lawsuit. I use those facts for the basis of my telling, not the newly sanitized overview in RS:PPU. Take my account for what you will. I am confident that the information I have provided is more accurate than the RS:PPU version. (Would any company admit to a legal mistake or oversight in an official product? That would be suicide.)

[Cache]

... and have seen the court transcripts ...

i used the wrong terminology there. they are court documents (judgements), not transcripts. i also made a mistake in my initial post. the court did rule in favor of Harmony Gold on the Macross designs issue. you can read through the documents at your leisure and come to your own conclusions if you wish:

FASA sues Playmates, 1 of 3 [1994 DEC]: http://alex.kaempen.org/fasa_v._playmates.html

FASA sues Playmates, 2 of 3 [1995 JUN]: http://alex.kaempen.org/fasa_v._playmates2.html

FASA sues Playmates, 3 of 3 [1996 JAN]: http://alex.kaempen.org/fasa_v._Playmates3.html

You will find the list of disputed toys in #3 above. I believe the picture I have scanned from the Playmates toy catalog mentioned in that document.

HG sues FASA, Nail in the "Unseen" coffin: http://alex.kaempen.org/harmony_gold_v._fasa.html

Whoops! You weren't supposed to get those documents: http://alex.kaempen.org/harmony_gold_v._fasa2.html

Edited August 5, 2008 by Cache

[Cache]

i'll try to post a picture of the MadCat clone when i get home.

as promised...