Macross Frontier Episode 13 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Gubaba]

yeah, but why call it garbage? harsh. i actually love the concept of DYRL being a movie within the universe. brilliant, IMO. at least macross made the effort of harmonizing the two. other anime franchises (e.g. Escaflowne, X, End of Eva) just leave the audience on their own to puzzle over which is which.

...or to take them as free-standing works of fiction that require no explanation. If a band records two quite different versions of the same song, is one more "real" than the other...? If an other takes one of his or her published short stories and expands it into a novel (or vice-versa...hey, it's happened), does that make one of them less valid?

[dreamweaver13]

Ha! I defy you to top that one WITHOUT resorting to Sid and Marty Kroft productions!

hehe, won't even try. you just can't beat manimal.

[taksraven]

Ha! I defy you to top that one WITHOUT resorting to Sid and Marty Kroft productions!

Easy. Automan.

Taksraven

[Gubaba]

Easy. Automan.

Taksraven

ARGH, I've been pwned!!!

You've won this round...but I'll be back...

[info600]

I think it's a great theory. I posted (either in this thread or another one) that the Vajra could very well be a benevolent race that is being used by Grace and her cohorts for some nefarious purpose. Though I didn't make the capitalist connection until you mentioned it. Now it makes a LOT of sense. The SMS, Alto uttering "capitalism" under his breathe in an earlier episode, the ever-present but heretofore "unspoken" role of the LAI corporation; it sure does make a nice unifying theory. We're definitely on to something here.

if I recall correctly, Ozma mentioned that capitalism was the reason that SMS even exist with such advanced stuff (better than the military units anyway) in ep.3 2

But "bigger" would necessarily mean "different in some way," wouldn't it? The Global looked EXACTLY the same...

there's nothing to confirm the exact size (or are you pulling that idea ...out of nowhere)

Edited July 8, 2008 by info600

[Gubaba]

there's nothing to confirm the exact size (or are you pulling that idea ...out of nowhere)

If the Macross Perfect Memory is "nowhere," then yes, I am. But most of us would be more likely to refer to it as "a valuable trove of highly useful information."

And if that is not at your fingertips, you might try here.

Exact size (planned, at least) confirmed!

EDIT: Unless of course, you meant the Global. In which case, it doesn't look like the SDF-2. Look at the bridge, for example. It doesn't look anything like the SDF-2's bridge, and everything like the SDF-1's.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Gubaba

[Master Dex]

I'm actually starting to think LAI may not be as involved as some of us think. Perhaps they are pawns in the grand scheme just as Frontier is and Gallia 4 was. However I really have to wonder why they would develop something like the Dimension Eater. Maybe Grace's people wanted to frame LAI as a fail safe for their plan if their idea of a Vajra/human war didn't play out. Grace's people make the Dimension Eater, make it seem like LAI built it and everyone gets mad at that company. The only problem to this theory is the actual Dimension Eater device was destroyed in it's own Fold Fault explosion (the Zentradi refer to the explosion as an unidentified fold fault forming).

On that note though if you reverse it, there is a very easy way to pin down exactly why LAI would make the Dimension Eater. As I said above the Zentradi referred to the explosion as an unidentified Fold Fault forming. We know LAI just created a new fold booster can that go through fold faults ans shorted trips in fold space substantially. If LAI were to suddenly have a bunch of Fold Faults popping up all over the galaxy then their new booster would be the only thing that could allow anyone to get anywhere because conventional folding would be severely hindered. It almost seems too perfect right there. However this doesn't explain the relation to Grace's faction or the Vajra at all and may not have anything to do with it. Perhaps that is why LAI made the Dimension Eater but Grace is certainly using it for the purpose of getting the Vajra and the NUNS angry at each other, not to help LAI's unscrupulous buisness ventures.

So I think we still don't have nearly enough information to draw a suitable conclusion.

[Lethalzero]

i cant still seem to understand why would LAI make a dimension eater (* if they really made it)

It is more of a weapon than a tool...

I am more interested in who were the person behind Grace and their motives..

also if vajra were being controlled by the queen or other being.. x_x

[Mr March]

[mini rant]

With all due respect, I think some are just way too eager to declare retcon. IMO, most of these debates aren't even about retcon; they are clashes between personal interpretations of Macross and really, who can speak to that? Where some see retcon I see bubbles being burst and an intense disappointment that Macross should dare be made different from each fan's Macross gospel

Although no one has come right out and said it, I think after 25 years without another SDF Macross ship, some fans figure there shouldn't be another and might even feel entitled to that. Is it a self-centered opinion? Sure. Can we really blame some for their nostalgia after 25 years invested in Macross? Probably not. But that's human nature.

I know several people, here and on other boards, have come right out and asked me how I could like Macross Frontier. I can't really answer them; they have to find their own answer. It's been my observation that a significant portion of the Macross fandom (actually, ANY long time fandom) is still and forever will be in love with only the original. Perhaps I've been fortunate to judge entertainment as it comes and just roll with the good and bad. But one man's junk is another man's treasure, so maybe I'm missing out. But as long as I can judge good from bad (SDF Macross vs. Macross 7, hehehe) I figure I'm doing fine

I've often heard the phrase that film is a young person's game and I can see why that would apply even more so to anime. Pleasing an older fanbase won't work, especially when nearly every older fan vehemently defends their own Macross gospel even when Macross comes from the horses mouth (or hory froating head, as it were). I hope Macross Frontier succeeds at bringing in new fans cause I've a feeling this series is the third and final charge of old school Macross fandom. I think once Frontier is done, that'll be the end for some of us. We already lost many once Macross Zero fizzled and I think in the minds of some Frontier is the Macross franchise's third and final shot at redemption before they sign off. That might be a little presumptuous and maybe a bit melodramatic, but I do in many ways feel as though this 25th anniversary is going to be the end of an era in more ways than one. But perhaps that's all as it should be.

[dreamweaver13]

I've often heard the phrase that film is a young person's game and I can see why that would apply even more so to anime. Pleasing an older fanbase won't work, especially when nearly every older fan vehemently defends their own Macross gospel even when Macross comes from the horses mouth (or hory froating head, as it were). I hope Macross Frontier succeeds at bringing in new fans cause I've a feeling this series is the third and final charge of old school Macross fandom. I think once Frontier is done, that'll be the end for some of us. We already lost many once Macross Zero fizzled and I think in the minds of some Frontier is the Macross franchise's third and final shot at redemption before they sign off. That might be a little presumptuous and maybe a bit melodramatic, but I do in many ways feel as though this 25th anniversary is going to be the end of an era in more ways than one. But perhaps that's all as it should be.

wow, sad but possibly true.

if it indeed is the final act for old-school macross, then let it stand on its own, and let it be great. so far, it has been.

it would be nice if much later on, the new fans would speak with as much deference to the alto-sheryl-ranka troika as much as we did with the old triangler.

[Gubaba]

[mini rant]

I can't speak for others, but if you're putting me in with the group you mention, I think you're misunderstanding my point: namely, that I don't really understand why people would say, "Hey, remember that slipshod job we did refitting the alien battle fortress that we didn't comprehend completely? Now let's build one from scratch EXACTLY like it!" The SDF-2 makes a lot more sense to me, being an improvement upon the original design.

But that's not the way it is, and I can accept it. I still think Frontier is an excellent series...I've enjoyed every Macross offering (yes, even II and 7...although both of them took a little time to grow on me), and expect to continue liking them as long as the Hory Froating Head continues to make them (when he retires...well, then all bets are off, although some Tomino-less Gundam is good, so Macross might be fine as well).

To me, Macross is all one wonderful future history, and as long as Kawamori and his associates want to keep showing us chapters of it, well, then I feel honored that they're willing to share them with me.

But I do agree that there are many, here and elsewhere, who are MUCH harder on Frontier than they would be if the names "Macross" and "Kawamori" weren't attached to the project. But that's to be expected...nostalgia's a double-edged sword.

[cyde01]

I didn't read all of this thread so I dont know if it was mentioned before. But I watched the Raw when this episode came out, and have been reading about the "Why does Brera hate Alto?" posts that frequent it or not. But, did anyone catch the flashback that occurs (it was like "black and white") of Ranka when she was younger with her parents and they're holding what looks like a little boy? Is it possible that Brera is related to Ranka? I mean he did save her once.

actually in the flashback where ranka is lying on her mom's lap listening to aimo, you can clearly see brera holding a harmonica behind her mom's right shoulder. i hope this hasn't been mentioned yet, otherwise i feel stupid.

[Zinjo]

To be fair, there's nothing IN THE ANIMATION ITSELF to deny the existence of other SDF-1 Macross types of ships, but the supplementary material (as you say) does seem to be against it (IIRC, some of us went through similar conniptions when the VF-0 was introduced...). Plus, to me, it just seemed intuitive that a reverse engineered and rebuilt alien space ship would end up being one-of-a-kind.

But I guess not.

I would tend to agree with you if no SDF-2 lineart or references were ever made.

However they do and it always seemed odd to me that the Megaroad Colony ships were given an SDF designation considering the term meant "Super Dimension Fortress" with respect to the Macross, which was indeed a battleship.

With the loss of the Earth's very first colony expedition, the PR mess that would have caused would have been an enormous blow to the emigration program, unless assurances to the public could be made for their safety. An accompanying SDF battleship in the image of the iconic Macross could very well do that.

It isn't a great stretch to consider the that more could have been built, especially with the NMCs in Mac 7 demonstrating that the idea of a transforming capital ship was still very much in vogue with the universe. IMHO, it would have been a greater stretch to accept that no more were built in a hostile galaxy that humanity found itself a part of.

I personally never liked the idea of the "transforming" NMC, but have come to accept it as it is. As a carrier with a big gun, I didn't see the necessity. However, Kawamori did and I found a way to appreciate it at least in cruiser mode.

The Macross itself is one of a kind, since it's the only SA gunship ever rebuilt. Any copies would have seen design changes, structural changes, etc... since no limitations are put on a scratch build ship as opposed to restoring an existing superstructure. Hence why the Megalord had a similar sillouette to the Macross but was 400m longer...

Considering the battle damage of the Global it is difficult to tell whether it looks identical to the original. The Megalord had two radomes on the side of the bridge structure whereas the Macross had one and the Global (from the sillouette) seemed to have none. Essentially the ships looked similar, but not the same to me. That is one of the reasons why I didn't believe it was the Macross, since the details were different, which is where the Megalord and Macross initially differed.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Zinjo

[Gubaba]

The Macross itself is one of a kind, since it's the only SA gunship ever rebuilt. Any copies would have seen design changes, structural changes, etc... since no limitations are put on a scratch build ship as opposed to restoring an existing superstructure. Hence why the Megalord had a similar sillouette to the Macross but was 400m longer...

Then we DO agree!

Really, I have no problem with battleships SIMILAR to the Macross or BASED ON the Macross...but the thought of one that looks EXACTLY the same is just...strange to me.

Bah. I'll get used to it.

[cyde01]

[mini rant]

With all due respect, I think some are just way too eager to declare retcon. IMO, most of these debates aren't even about retcon; they are clashes between personal interpretations of Macross and really, who can speak to that? Where some see retcon I see bubbles being burst and an intense disappointment that Macross should dare be made different from each fan's Macross gospel

Although no one has come right out and said it, I think after 25 years without another SDF Macross ship, some fans figure there shouldn't be another and might even feel entitled to that. Is it a self-centered opinion? Sure. Can we really blame some for their nostalgia after 25 years invested in Macross? Probably not. But that's human nature.

I know several people, here and on other boards, have come right out and asked me how I could like Macross Frontier. I can't really answer them; they have to find their own answer. It's been my observation that a significant portion of the Macross fandom (actually, ANY long time fandom) is still and forever will be in love with only the original. Perhaps I've been fortunate to judge entertainment as it comes and just roll with the good and bad. But one man's junk is another man's treasure, so maybe I'm missing out. But as long as I can judge good from bad (SDF Macross vs. Macross 7, hehehe) I figure I'm doing fine

I've often heard the phrase that film is a young person's game and I can see why that would apply even more so to anime. Pleasing an older fanbase won't work, especially when nearly every older fan vehemently defends their own Macross gospel even when Macross comes from the horses mouth (or hory froating head, as it were). I hope Macross Frontier succeeds at bringing in new fans cause I've a feeling this series is the third and final charge of old school Macross fandom. I think once Frontier is done, that'll be the end for some of us. We already lost many once Macross Zero fizzled and I think in the minds of some Frontier is the Macross franchise's third and final shot at redemption before they sign off. That might be a little presumptuous and maybe a bit melodramatic, but I do in many ways feel as though this 25th anniversary is going to be the end of an era in more ways than one. But perhaps that's all as it should be.

wow great post. i hope this isn't the last we see of macross tho..

[Lethalzero]

if this would be the last..hopefully it ends good..

[Gubaba]

wow great post. i hope this isn't the last we see of macross tho..

"Farewell Space Battleship Yamato" wasn't a farewell...

"Final Yamato" wasn't final...

"Char's Counterattack" ended the main plotline of Gundam, but series continues...

"The End of Evangelion" wasn't...

What makes you think Macross will be any different?

[Keith]

DYRL is a movie within the canon, accept it!!

[dreamweaver13]

"Farewell Space Battleship Yamato" wasn't a farewell...

"Final Yamato" wasn't final...

"Char's Counterattack" ended the main plotline of Gundam, but series continues...

"The End of Evangelion" wasn't...

What makes you think Macross will be any different?

I agree. i don't think March was referring to the end of Macross as a franchise, per se. rather, the end of the old generation of macross. a new starting point for a new generation of fans. macross frontier is in a unique position where it can develop its own stand-alone fanbase, and it could be the new jumpboard for future macross works. a changing of the guard, so to speak.

[Zinjo]

Then we DO agree!

Really, I have no problem with battleships SIMILAR to the Macross or BASED ON the Macross...but the thought of one that looks EXACTLY the same is just...strange to me.

Bah. I'll get used to it.

Yes we do...

The Global is in no way a carbon copy, the details are different. Is it an SDF, by the words that make up the acronym? Yes.

Is it the first and original SDF or duplicate of it? Hell no! That baby sits in a lake in the middle of a metropolis on Earth for all to admire and remains one of a kind...

I'd suggest even Kawamori wouldn't allow her to be touched...

Edited July 8, 2008 by Zinjo

[Strumvogel]

I don't know. I haven't have too much problems with the franchise of Macross. Well, not much anyway. I am enjoying Frontier thus far and being that it was a series I have waited for close to two decades for perhaps mean I have more invested in it. The saying about how time makes the heart grows fonder(sp?) applies here for me I guess.

The one niggling retcon that kinda gets me though is how we never see the old designs from the original series. It's like they decided to utilise the designs from DYRL onwards as canon and quite frankly, I miss Daedalus and Prometheus...

[Gubaba]

I agree. i don't think March was referring to the end of Macross as a franchise, per se. rather, the end of the old generation of macross. a new starting point for a new generation of fans. macross frontier is in a unique position where it can develop its own stand-alone fanbase, and it could be the new jumpboard for future macross works. a changing of the guard, so to speak.

All very true...it's funny, isn't it? So many people were worried when the show started that it didn't have a distinct identity of its own, relying too much on homages to past series, and now it seems to be standing poised to launch a whole new saga...

Yes we do...

The Global is in no way a carbon copy, the details are different. Is it an SDF, by the words that make up the acronym? Yes.

Is it the first and original SDF or duplicate of it? Hell no! That baby sits in a lake in the middle of a metropolis on Earth for all to admire and remains one of a kind...

I'd suggest even Kawamori wouldn't allow her to be touched...

Bah, they can blow it up for all I care, as long as it makes for a good story. My cordial dislike for Macross II has nothing to do with the destruction of the Macross (although the flying bridge was a bit hard to take) and everything to do with the fact that I initially thought Flashback 2012 was a prelude, not an epilogue.

[Mr March]

dreamweaver13

Just the Macross fandom, not the franchise itself. I've no doubt Macross will likely continue onward for as long as it continues to make lots of money. But I can't shake the feeling that some oldschoolers are going to be dropping out of Macross after this, if they haven't done so already.

Gubaba

My rant was more on a sense I'm getting collectively from portions of Macross fandom here and elsewhere. Again, it's not really that big a deal overall, but it's a persistent prescence in most Macross Frontier threads. Perhaps I'm reading more into the complaints, but I am feeling as though some old Macross fans are pretty much throwing up their arms and writing it off. Ironically, I think it actually has little to do with Frontier. Frontier may actually turn out to be as great a series in the end asit is now, but I don't see that changing the opinion of some long time fans. I think they are done with Macross in every other way short of leaving the fandom. But that's just my take on it and my perception based on the reason why some are damning retcon when it's not.

cyde01

As I said above, I'm referring only to portions of the old Macross fandom, not Macross itself. I hope people will stick around because they are happy with more Macross, but it looks like some are at the end of their patience. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's a vibe I'm getting from the nature of the retcon posts. For example:

DYRL is a movie within the canon, accept it!!

This post is a classic example. Putting aside the apparent frustration, it speaks to the issue of the larger Macross franchise. To some long time fans, they've lived with DYRL for over 10 years as an "alternate tale of Space War I as equally legitimate as SDF Macross". That's a long time to invest in a "known truth" as it were. Then 1995 came along and Macross 7 changed the status of DYRL?. Some won't accept that change and vehemently oppose it after a decade of being led to believe otherwise, while others apply more importance to that change than they should, especially given Kawamori's creative tendencies. So it seems like Frontier's additions or alterations are just too much to take for some who have already had enough. But that's just my impression.

Strumvogel

I've had my ups and downs with the franchise, but overall I've been happy. I wouldn't keep coming back if I wasn't. I've long since dropped some franchises which ran into the ground. But for me, Macross can be great when done right and I'm loving Macross Frontier so far. I'm sure we all have a few pet peeves when it comes to retcon, but I'm not writing off everything because of a few minor problems. Others might be feeling differently and that's pretty much the point of my little rant

Edited July 8, 2008 by Mr March

[d3v]

dreamweaver13

Just the Macross fandom, not the franchise itself. I've no doubt Macross will likely continue onward for as long as it continues to make lots of money. But I can't shake the feeling that some oldschoolers are going to be dropping out of Macross after this, if they haven't done so already.

Gubaba

My rant was more on a sense I'm getting collectively from portions of Macross fandom here and elsewhere. Again, it's not really that big a deal overall, but it's a persistent prescence in most Macross Frontier threads. Perhaps I'm reading more into the complaints, but I am feeling as though some old Macross fans are pretty much throwing up their arms and writing it off. Ironically, I think it actually has little to do with Frontier. Frontier may actually turn out to be as great a series in the end asit is now, but I don't see that changing the opinion of some long time fans. I think they are done with Macross in every other way short of leaving the fandom. But that's just my take on it and my perception based on the reason why some are damning retcon when it's not.

cyde01

As I said above, I'm referring only to portions of the old Macross fandom, not Macross itself. I hope people will stick around because they are happy with more Macross, but it looks like some are at the end of their patience. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's a vibe I'm getting from the nature of the retcon posts. For example:

This post is a classic example. Putting aside the apparent frustration, it speaks to the issue of the larger Macross franchise. To some long time fans, they've lived with DYRL for over 10 years as an "alternate tale of Space War I as equally legitimate as SDF Macross". That's a long time to invest in a "known truth" as it were. Then 1995 came along and Macross 7 changed the status of DYRL?. Some won't accept that change and vehemently oppose it after a decade of being led to believe otherwise, while others apply more importance to that change than they should, especially given Kawamori's creative tendencies. So it seems like Frontier's additions or alterations are just too much to take for some who have already had enough. But that's just my impression.

Strumvogel

I've had my ups and downs with the franchise, but overall I've been happy. I wouldn't keep coming back if I wasn't. I've long since dropped some franchises which ran into the ground. But for me, Macross can be great when done right and I'm loving Macross Frontier so far. I'm sure we all have a few pet peeves when it comes to retcon, but I'm not writing off everything because of a few minor problems. Others might be feeling differently and that's pretty much the point of my little rant

Funny, I consider myself an old school fan, having fallen in love with the original series way back in the 80's and I actually find my interest in the franchise refreshed thanks to Frontier, then again, people like me are probably the exception not the rule.

[Garou Kuroryuu]

Funny, I consider myself an old school fan, having fallen in love with the original series way back in the 80's and I actually find my interest in the franchise refreshed thanks to Frontier, then again, people like me are probably the exception not the rule.

I'm thankful that Frontier got made and, as you, I'm an old guard fan which fell with the original (bastardized) series. I enjoy it and still got excited with every mecha-porn we get from it.

But I can't deny I have several gripes against MF:

- The overly childish depiction of some of the most recurrent characters (Ranka, Luca)

- An absurdly feminine looking leading "male" character. Can't help but feel some contempt, instead of relate to him.

- Way too much of a "teen" context, particularly because of the high school thing.

Some will say Hikaru and Minmey were basically the same age as Alto and Ranka. True. But they were never depicted as the tipical high-school kid who all of a sudden becomes great. Hikaru, even being an ace stunt pilot, sucked big time as a fighter pilot for several episodes! Alto kicks ass basically from episode 1!

Dunno... I'm enjoying the series, but not really IN LOVE with it. Maybe only with the homages XD

[Sketch]

You guys seem to be ignoring the fact that DYRL and TV designs are refered to interchangablily. In Macross 7 we see Milia flying in a TV style jumpsuit, while Basara was acting out Hikaru's role in a DYRL style suit. In Frontier we see a TV style Nosjadeul-Ger floating in an ancient battlefield, and in episode 12 the TV-style uniformed Zentradi were squaring off against dudes wearing the DYRL-style outfits.

The simple fact of that matter is that 'movie in a movie' doesn't describe our DYRL, Kawamori simply stated that there was a movie called DYRL in the canon. He has even specifically started that the in-universe movie is different from the real world movie.

Anyhow, SW1 is muddy water, and designs from both are used.

As for 'leaving the fans behind', too bad. If Macross is going to only appeal to fans of the original and ignore the massive fanbase created by Plus, and Zero, and especially Macross 7 (the most popular installment in the series), how is it to remain a viable franchise? Every long running Franchise has had to walk this line, just look at Gundam. This is how franchises work, each new installment builds upon the others while creating a unique identity of it's won. Personally I think Frontier has been an excellent series in it's own right, with just enough Macross and Macross 7 moments to make it really feel like it belongs in the franchise. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person who cheered when Michel and Ranka flew in with the speaker pods, or when the Queadllun Rau's made their first appearance.

Those fans who simply want a rehash of the original series will never be happy no matter what Kawamori and crew does, they're the classic unpleasable fans who simply can't sit back and enjoy the ride; better to appeal to those of us with open minds while creating another generation of fans to carry the torch.

ps. everyone seems to forget that the effeminate male trend started in SDF. Max was a novelty character in the original, he had a bishi appearance juxtaposed by his deep voice, womanizing, and genius piloting ability. Alto is a lot more obvious, but he certainly isn't the first pretty-boy.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Sketch

[Mr March]

Newbie question: I've seen the subtitles describe the 117th fleet as a "large-scale survey fleet" OR a "research fleet". Does anyone know which is correct?

d3v and Garou Kuroryuu

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I'm an old school fan as well and Macross Frontier has done much to reinvigorate the franchise for me. I have a few complaints like anyone, but aside from Macross Frontier being aimed outside my age group and a pair of weak episodes (LOL ) I'm very much enjoying Frontier. As for beautiful male characters, that's pretty much anime. Most male characters are lithe, effeminate and idealized. The Japanese idea of a gritty male in Macross is Roy, which is pretty girly looking in my book. Most anime male leads are fair looking; most manly anime characters drawn brutishly are typically one-dimensional, like Batou, Guile, Jet, etc; the tyranny of the medium perhaps. Amaterasu in Five Star Stories or D in Vampire Hunter D were even more feminine than Alto will ever be and those characters were great.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Mr March

[info600]

Amaterasu in Five Star Stories or D in Vampire Hunter D were even more feminine than Alto will ever be and those characters were great.

I just don't think that you should set Alto being "extremely feminine" here only with the reason that he acted as a woman in a traditional kabuki ... 'movie'(?)

he's relatively hot headed almost all the time... => masculine in my book

[VF-25 Messiah]

Newbie question: I've seen the subtitles describe the 117th fleet as a "large-scale survey fleet" OR a "research fleet". Does anyone know which is correct?

Believe its reffered to as 第１１７調査船団 in japanese. The keyword here is 調査 which usually translates into "investigation", "examination", "inquiry", "survey", etc I believe "research" fits in here too, so both translations work. (Though it doesn't specificly state large-scale)

[Einhander1251]

The reasoning for the transforming aspect of the SDF as I understood it was to help facilitate easier maintenance of the Dimensional reactors and the twin boom cannons. It makes sense to me.

[Einhander1251]

The XB-70 made a cameo in DYRL as a model, and it is one of SK most major inspirations.

Got another source for inspiration for SK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-2...ional%29#MiG-28

scroll down to the MiG-31 and read about its capabilities

[cyde01]

Funny, I consider myself an old school fan, having fallen in love with the original series way back in the 80's and I actually find my interest in the franchise refreshed thanks to Frontier, then again, people like me are probably the exception not the rule.

i sure hope you are not the exception to the rule. i happen to be an old school fan as well and i am thoroughly enjoying frontier. and in this forum that is heavily populated by old school types almost every episode has had a 90%+ approval rating. i honestly think the continuity nazis are just the loud minority.

[Mr March]

info600

That's entirely my point. I don't believe Alto is very feminine at all. Alto's personality is aggressive, hot-headed, competitive, stubborn and narrow-minded; by almost every mental benchmark he's very much a typical raging male teenager. It's the fact that he's extremely good looking and created in the "modern" definition of attractive (lithe, effeminate, etc) that I see as the fan hang up. Alto is basically the Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp of anime. It wouldn't matter if he swore like Quentin Tarantino, belched like Tim the Toolman and pronounced it "Kalifornyaa", he'd still be ridiculed just because of his looks

VF-25 Messiah

Well, that does narrow it down some. If the homages to Scott's and Cameron's Alien/Aliens are true, it may be "survey" simply because survey ships and teams were a prominent part of the background/off-screen story for that franchise. At least I know to drop the "large-scale" part

cyde01

I live in hope you're correct

Edited July 8, 2008 by Mr March

[dreamweaver13]

i sure hope you are not the exception to the rule. i happen to be an old school fan as well and i am thoroughly enjoying frontier. and in this forum that is heavily populated by old school types almost every episode has had a 90%+ approval rating. i honestly think the continuity nazis are just the loud minority.

i agree wholeheartedly, and i hope you're right. i would like to think a majority of old school fans are loving frontier, and will continue to love the franchise. Like you and d3v, my love for the original series was reinvigorated and intensified by frontier. so far, it has been a fantastic series, whether you consider it as a continuation of the old franchise, or as a new series in itself.

[dreamweaver13]

All very true...it's funny, isn't it? So many people were worried when the show started that it didn't have a distinct identity of its own, relying too much on homages to past series, and now it seems to be standing poised to launch a whole new saga...

haha. now that you mention it, you're right. seems like ages ago when people were whining about overcooked homages.

but i sense a pattern now. put in heavy homages at the start to get the old fans interested and feeling "yeah, this is our anime!", then put the series into another direction to make it more contemporary and to get new fans, but still dropping little, subtle (yet not distracting to the plot) homages to keep the old fans interested without alienating the new fans too much. if the purpose of this pattern is to get both the old and new fans, i hope it's working!