WTF-1 Discsussion Thread

[Master Dex]

Can I egg you on with a comparison picture? Seriously, that's not bad fan art, but it doesn't look quite right. Check out this schematic and tell me what you think:

SDF-1 Macross official line art schematic

That fan picture is an interesting wallpaper, but it's kinda "off".

Doesn't bother me, it's not my picture. I just found it on Google Image search. Someone last page posted a link to where it comes from but I was just looking up pics of the Macross when I found it. Thought it looked good so I posted it.

Yes both are missing the "arms."

[Mr March]

Doesn't bother me, it's not my picture. I just found it on Google Image search. Someone last page posted a link to where it comes from but I was just looking up pics of the Macross when I found it. Thought it looked good so I posted it.

Yes both are missing the "arms."

Yeah I know, just making a joke. It's the legs/rear engines that look really weird to me. Compared to the official line art picture I posted, they look very different. How old is that fan art picture, if you know?

[Keith]

Exactly how is a convoluted and unsupported claim that there are suddenly mutliple ships that look like the Macross "the simplist answer." The simplist answer is that the damn thing is the Macross. As for fold drives, what the hell do you think they did durring the refit? Do you honestly mean to tell me you'd believe that multiple look alike ships (with fold drives) being built are more likely than "1" new fold drive being built? come on!

[skull1]

I think it's the "one and only macross" and the all zentran fleet in that planet is not a coincidence. Galia 4 could be a "protoculture" planet that's why macross is there as well as the myterious thing that made Alto's plane crash.

**edit

cool this is my first post after almost three years of being a member

Edited July 2, 2008 by skull1

[Major Focker]

wow, that must be a record of sorts. well you've certainly picked quite a spot to jump into. happy posting!

Edited July 2, 2008 by Major Focker

[Duke Togo]

Exactly how is a convoluted and unsupported claim that there are suddenly mutliple ships that look like the Macross "the simplist answer." The simplist answer is that the damn thing is the Macross. As for fold drives, what the hell do you think they did durring the refit? Do you honestly mean to tell me you'd believe that multiple look alike ships (with fold drives) being built are more likely than "1" new fold drive being built? come on!

My name is Duke Togo, and I support this message.

[Kelsain]

Once again, why are people applying Occam's Razor to a work of fiction, which is consciously created to be surprising and to create unusual, unpredictable connections and story turns?

True, and there's a distinction between what's the simplest explanation in the actual fictional universe and the simplest explanation for the narrative.

Now, admittedly, they have to make it at least semi-plausible, but still...they can say anything they want to. Because it's fiction.

And really, that's where you win or lose fans. I love stories that throw you big WTF moments like this, or Lost or Battlestar. It's the ability to follow up with an explanation that shows the writers put real thought behind it and incorporated it well that makes it satisfying. This is where Lost, er, lost me: mystery after mystery with 1 contrived backstory after another. I just got tired of waiting for any exposition for all the shows events (They may be resolving it now, I dunno, it's a little too late for me). Battlestar almost had the same effect a few times, but Baltar keeps me tagging along.

IF the writers have to invent some crazy, over-contrived (lets face it - it will be kinda nutty and contrived) reason for the Macross (or M-alike) sitting on Gallia4 or just blow it up and move on; I'll be quite disappointed in the show. I'll still watch it though, I mean it's Macross after all. But it would feel a little empty if the Macross gets destroyed (completely that is, I'm OK with severely damaged and repairable).

[RedWolf]

IF the writers have to invent some crazy, over-contrived (lets face it - it will be kinda nutty and contrived) reason for the Macross (or M-alike) sitting on Gallia4 or just blow it up and move on; I'll be quite disappointed in the show. I'll still watch it though, I mean it's Macross after all. But it would feel a little empty if the Macross gets destroyed (completely that is, I'm OK with severely damaged and repairable).

Well it has been postulated before that either the Quarter or Battle 25 will be destroyed with the SDF-1 being the calvary.

But I'd like to see the SDF-1 Macross, New Macross class Battle 25 and the Macross Quarter firing their Macross canons together against a big bad mothership or fleet.

Heck while were at it why not the new Battle 7 that we last saw being constructed in Macross Dynamite 7.

[Sumdumgai]

I've been arguing possibilities (yes the Thermian thing was a joke), not that those possibilities are ABSOLUTELY what I think is going to happen. It could be the SDF-1 Macross. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it does somehow turn out to be the Macross.

But, it could just as likely be another Macross Class ship. In Macross Plus we didn't know that New Macross Class vessels existed during that time period, we found out they did in Macross 7. We didn't know about the APHOS, VF-0, SV-51, or Cheyenne existing in the timeline prior to SDF Macross until Macross Zero introduced them. Does it seem so far fetched to think that it could be possible there could be other Macross Class vessels that look like the Macross?

[info600]

Can I egg you on with a comparison picture? Seriously, that's not bad fan art, but it doesn't look quite right. Check out this schematic and tell me what you think:

SDF-1 Macross official line art schematic

That fan picture is an interesting wallpaper, but it's kinda "off".

i can see what you are talking about (sort of); the fins sprouting off ahead of the engine nozzle......

...o wait, the Prometheus is there (in Mr. March's pic)

edit: jsut checked Mr. March's OTHER pic of the macross, same observation of the fins...

Edited July 2, 2008 by info600

[Final Vegeta]

The simplest solution would be that there are many Macross-type ships if you, as an author, just wanted to have a Macross ship in your show and be lazy about justifying it.

As a watcher, though, the simplest solution is really to believe that is really the Macross, because that's what the clues are pointing to.

And by clues I must add also that the true episode title remained hidden until now, thus emphasizing it was going to be a big surprise (not unlike other Macross TV series where the first opening was altered to prevent spoiling).

FV

[MisaForever]

Good lord, this one episode issue discussion has gone 10 pages??? Are you guys REALLY BORED?

[eugimon]

Good lord, this one episode issue discussion has gone 10 pages??? Are you guys REALLY BORED?

don't forget about the 39 pages on the actual episode 12 thread

[Master Dex]

Yeah I know, just making a joke. It's the legs/rear engines that look really weird to me. Compared to the official line art picture I posted, they look very different. How old is that fan art picture, if you know?

I don't know really, like I said I just found it. I get the impression that the person who made it was thinking of it as 'the ship from Robotech' though, however that shouldn't change its design at all.

[Master Dex]

Ok this is slightly off topic but it is related to the SDF-1 so I'll put it here, mods can tell me off if they think this shouldn't be here but I think it is fine.

Since people seemed to fine that blueprint picture I found interesting, I went it search for more interesting pictures (just for my gallery really) and I came across some really cool stuff.

Doing more image searches I happened upon a nice CG rendering of an ARMD. The site it was attached to was apparently that of an artist who does all types of stuff and included was renderings of the ARMD and SDF-1 in both cruiser and attacker mode, all these pictures are liked below. The artist, who appears to call himself Wolfmage is very talented it seems. However this is where it gets interesting. I browsed through his site to see if he had more stuff. He does a lot of things but nothing else from Macross, however when I stumbled into his CG animations page and found he had an animation of the SDF-1 transformation from cruiser to attacker and it is amazing! The link to that below is a link directly to the download, which comes in a .avi file that will play easily on anything if you have divX or some such proper codecs (shouldn't be a problem for anyone here).

ARMD over Earth

ARMD underside

Attacker mode backside

Attacker mode with pretty background. Would make a great wallpaper if it was bigger.

Cruiser mode with nice backdrop. Again would be nice to have a bigger one.

This one is the download link to the animation, Love it and enjoy: TRANSFORMATION!! I couldn't resist.

Thanks to Wolfmage whoever you are for making such good looking renders.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Master Dex

[Zinjo]

Damn!

I am loving the debates back and forth.

Real thought is going into some of these posts and all of them are compelling, especially if you step over those who bang on their holy drums shrieking "blasphemy" over and over.

So many possibilities! Can't wait to see what the answer will be and how it will be explained...

If this little controversy doesn't get MF a better TV market share then there is something broken in the Japanese rating system...

Edited July 2, 2008 by Zinjo

[Zinjo]

Ok this is slightly off topic but it is related to the SDF-1 so I'll put it here, mods can tell me off if they think this shouldn't be here but I think it is fine.

Since people seemed to fine that blueprint picture I found interesting, I went it search for more interesting pictures (just for my gallery really) and I came across some really cool stuff.

Doing more image searches I happened upon a nice CG rendering of an ARMD. The site it was attached to was apparently that of an artist who does all types of stuff and included was renderings of the ARMD and SDF-1 in both cruiser and attacker mode, all these pictures are liked below. The artist, who appears to call himself Wolfmage is very talented it seems. However this is where it gets interesting. I browsed through his site to see if he had more stuff. He does a lot of things but nothing else from Macross, however when I stumbled into his CG animations page and found he had an animation of the SDF-1 transformation from cruiser to attacker and it is amazing! The link to that below is a link directly to the download, which comes in a .avi file that will play easily on anything if you have divX or some such proper codecs (shouldn't be a problem for anyone here).

ARMD over Earth

ARMD underside

Attacker mode backside

Attacker mode with pretty background. Would make a great wallpaper if it was bigger.

Cruiser mode with nice backdrop. Again would be nice to have a bigger one.

This one is the download link to the animation, Love it and enjoy: TRANSFORMATION!! I couldn't resist.

Thanks to Wolfmage whoever you are for making such good looking renders.

The best place for these in future is in the fan art thread:

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showforum=5

[Master Dex]

The best place for these in future is in the fan art thread:

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showforum=5

I did think of that I just thought it was relevant here since we were also talking about the transformation bit as well. I know that is where it would go normally.

[Duke Togo]

I am loving the debates back and forth.

I dunno if I would call this a "debate".

[Zinjo]

I dunno if I would call this a "debate".

Indeed it is.

Granted there is no conclusive evidence to support either side, but positions are being put forward and defended without it sinking into pages of childish name calling.

See we can be adults if we choose to be...

[Straycatt]

The simplest solution would be that there are many Macross-type ships if you, as an author, just wanted to have a Macross ship in your show and be lazy about justifying it.

As a watcher, though, the simplest solution is really to believe that is really the Macross, because that's what the clues are pointing to.

And by clues I must add also that the true episode title remained hidden until now, thus emphasizing it was going to be a big surprise (not unlike other Macross TV series where the first opening was altered to prevent spoiling).

FV

You have hit the proverbial nail on the head IMO.

All of the speculation are possible answers. It is plausible, especially looking at how they have been willing to add previously unknown information/equipment to the Macross universe, for it to be a second or subsequent Macross (SDF-1) class vessel. And that is part of what is fueling this discussion. I find it interesting that some fans are unwilling to admit the possibility/plausibility, because for them it is emotionally impossible/implausible for there to be a 2nd ship that is built along the lines of the SF-1. I find it entirely logical that post SW-1 they would have built additional ships to the specs of the SDF-1 considering how effective the original was. Having said that though, I would prefer for it to be the original, even if they did build copies, because I want them to come up with a plausible well written story for explaining how and why it is there. These questions to me, along with what it was we caught a glimpse of that appears to have disabled Alto's fighter, are the big questions I want them to explain plausibly. If it is the SDF-1 and they explain it satisfactorily, I will be happy. If it isn't the SDF-1 and they explain it satisfactorily I will still be happy, just less happy.

For me, the most complelling argument for it being THE Macross is this is a 25th anniversary show, and it would be a nice nod to the original.

-Adam

[Duke Togo]

Granted there is no conclusive evidence to support either side...

Actually, there is, you've just lost touch with reality.

[ComicKaze]

Actually, there is, you've just lost touch with reality.

Agreed

[Master Dex]

I posted all that SDF-1 art stuff in the fanart section as well, so it is represented in the correct place as well as here.

[aerocombatpilot]

Well it has been postulated before that either the Quarter or Battle 25 will be destroyed with the SDF-1 being the calvary.

MAN, that would be the bomb!!! I would love to see that!!!

[Zinjo]

Actually, there is, you've just lost touch with reality.

Feel free to prove it, conclusively without resorting to speculation.

I'd like to see if it's possible, although I doubt it.

In both cases supposition is involved, as no detailed records have yet been published by the show's producers.

No published records on what constitued a Megaroad fleet after Megaroad 01, whether new fold systems were installed on the SDF-1 (however logically they should have, but nothing documented), if the Macross ever left the lake after 2040, if it even left the Sol solar system, if more SDF class battleships were built, etc...

Nothing, nadda, blank pages in the chronology and official records as we have them (as Kawamori left it).

Edited July 2, 2008 by Zinjo

[VF5SS]

There's an invisible dragon behind you right now. But you can't touch it or smell it. You'll never find it, but it's there.

[Zinjo]

There's an invisible dragon behind you right now. But you can't touch it or smell it. You'll never find it, but it's there.

Some would have you believe it is there because once there was a purple dragon there a long time ago and they have records of that purple dragon and pictures too.

Is the invisible dragon there because once upon a time an similarly looking purple dragon stood there too or is it indeed the very same purple dragon of yore, just now invisible?

Mmmm, metaphysics and philosphy, always fun...

Edited July 2, 2008 by Zinjo

[otogi]

two sides are ready to blow up with a 'i told you so' satisfaction.

[VF5SS]

Some would have you believe it is there because once there was a purple dragon there a long time ago and they have records of that purple dragon and pictures too.

Is the invisible dragon there because once upon a time an similarly looking purple dragon stood there too or is it indeed the very same purple dragon of yore, just now invisible?

Mmmm, metaphysics and philosphy, always fun...

No, it's an invisible dragon that's there now just like your mass produced Macrosses.

[LordDremen]

This is worst then ps3 vs. xbox360 fanboys/girls.

[Zinjo]

two sides are ready to blow up with a 'i told you so' satisfaction.

ROFL.

Now enter Kawamori and he tilts everything sideways...

[Zinjo]

No, it's an invisible dragon that's there now just like your mass produced Macrosses.

Prove it isn't possible...

Edited July 2, 2008 by Zinjo

[Zinjo]

This is worst then ps3 vs. xbox360 fanboys/girls.

With some individuals would would be dead on...

I think it all started with the whole fanboy forum battles between the ATI vs Nvidia camps...

Then it evolved into the PS3 vs Xbox360 and into the Bluray vs HDDVD by extension.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Zinjo

[dreamweaver13]

Well it has been postulated before that either the Quarter or Battle 25 will be destroyed with the SDF-1 being the calvary.

But I'd like to see the SDF-1 Macross, New Macross class Battle 25 and the Macross Quarter firing their Macross canons together against a big bad mothership or fleet.

Heck while were at it why not the new Battle 7 that we last saw being constructed in Macross Dynamite 7.

or the big-bad SDF-1 will see the macross quarter and exclaim, "now what is this little mofo here, doing all these acrobatic sh*t and stuff?? be gone, lil macross wannabe!". and then bitchslaps the quarter to oblivion with her Daedelus/ARMD.