WTF-1 Discsussion Thread

[Zinjo]

Here's a bit of pondering for you people, are you sure it's SDF-4? It could be Macross-04 (no "New" part).

I am suspecting it is an SDF since that is the classification number for the Macross Class fortress.

The NMC's generally are called "Macross-##", Macross 05, Macross 07, Macross 25. The SDF-1 and "initially" the SDF-2 battleships were given names, "Macross" and "Megalord" respectively.

Whether the the Megaroads listed in the known fleet names (Megaroad 03-SDF 04, Megaroad 04-SDF 05) have an incorporated battleship is what I am curious about.

The naming conventions in MF are pretty consistent. Frontier NMC25, Galaxy NMC21 and we know that the Frontier is the Colony ship and the NMC 25 is the battle carrier. The Megaroad naming is in the same convention, Megaroad 04 SDF5.

Could it be that Megaroad is the name of the type of colony ship with the SDF designated for a battleship?

Granted the Megaroad 01 did not have a battleship from all art we've seen, however no information is available as to what constituted subsequent fleets thereafter. So we simply don't know for sure.

Edited July 4, 2008 by Zinjo

[s001]

WTF? -1. It's not the macross! That sucks!

[Gubaba]

I am suspecting it is an SDF since that is the classification number for the Macross Class fortress.

The NMC's generally are called "Macross-##", Macross 05, Macross 07, Macross 25. The SDF-1 and "initially" the SDF-2 battleships were given names, "Macross" and "Megalord" respectively.

Whether the the Megaroads listed in the known fleet names (Megaroad 03-SDF 04, Megaroad 04-SDF 05) have an incorporated battleship is what I am curious about.

The naming conventions in MF are pretty consistent. Frontier NMC25, Galaxy NMC21 and we know that the Frontier is the Colony ship and the NMC 25 is the battle carrier. The Megaroad naming is in the same convention, Megaroad 04 SDF5.

Could it be that Megaroad is the name of the type of colony ship with the SDF designated for a battleship?

Granted the Megaroad 01 did not have a battleship from all art we've seen, however no information is available as to what constituted subsequent fleets thereafter. So we simply don't know for sure.

I'm STILL wondering about the Megaroad/Megalord thing...

[VF-25 Messiah]

I'm STILL wondering about the Megaroad/Megalord thing...

Is there an actual english offical source that states the name "Megalord" anywhere? Otherwise I'd just write it off as a transcribation error.

Both words would be メガロード in japanese so there's no distinction there.

[Shun]

Ep1 reference pic

what we know for sure:

Megaroad-01 is SDF-2

Megaroad-02 is SDF-3

Megaroad-04 is SDF-5

we don't see a Megaroad-03/SDF-4 here.

Megaroad-03 is listed in the Compendium so it is official and somewhere out there, but they didn't say that it has a SDF-4 designation (although it is almost a given? judging from the above naming convention).

So in this case, since the 117th Research Fleet is NOT an immigration fleet (and i assume its safe to say that it is not the Megaroad-03), it's really a big question mark whether the WTF-1's designation is really SDF-4; i think is quite doubtful given the above scenerio (only immigration fleets' ships r given sdf-# designation?).

Unless 117th branched out from within Megaroad-03 and was given the SDF-4 as a flagship. If not, the Global is probably NOT designated as SDF-4.

Also from the above picture, we see Macross05 Macross07 etc and they are the New Macross Class. Although we also do not see a Macross04 here, we can deduce Macross04 is also a New Macross Class and not the old first generation Macross type. So the Global is also probably NOT Macross04.

some other things i noticed:

M-Frontier listed as New Macross Class Aircraft Carrier NMCV-025

and yet later, the Macross25 is designated NCV-025

the discrepancy may be explained by the Macross/Battle ship + Colony being designated NMCV-## and the front portion Macross##/Battle## ship being designated NCV-##

Also noticed TWO Macross017... at the right-most in that pic.

wonder if its a mistake or could be an interesting and new Twin Colony concept?

[Zinjo]

Is there an actual english offical source that states the name "Megalord" anywhere? Otherwise I'd just write it off as a transcribation error.

Both words would be メガロード in japanese so there's no distinction there.

http://macross.anime.net//mecha/united_nat...ross/index.html

[Xeros]

more grafical xD

[VF-25 Messiah]

Okay so both names are official Megalord/Megaroad is official... strange, but oh well.

Anyway, if the Global is neither the SDF-04 or the Macross 04, shouldn't we be calling it the WTF-4?

[Gubaba]

Is there an actual english offical source that states the name "Megalord" anywhere? Otherwise I'd just write it off as a transcribation error.

Both words would be メガロード in japanese so there's no distinction there.

As Zinjo pointed out, "Megalord" is in the Macross Compendium. Me, I think it's just a continuity error. Macross Perfect Memory has an SDF-2 メガロード, but that book was published before Flashback 2012 came out. When they started planning FB2012, they decided to make it more different and more impressive, but still call it the メガロード. Later, someone had to come up with some way to reconcile this...but it seems like whoever did the reconciling was an English speaker. (Egan himself, maybe...?)

All speculation on my part, of course. But it's plausible.

[Shun]

more grafical xD

"Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base,...."

Star wars... copyright infringement!!

[VF-25 Messiah]

As Zinjo pointed out, "Megalord" is in the Macross Compendium. Me, I think it's just a continuity error. Macross Perfect Memory has an SDF-2 メガロード, but that book was published before Flashback 2012 came out. When they started planning FB2012, they decided to make it more different and more impressive, but still call it the メガロード. Later, someone had to come up with some way to reconcile this...but it seems like whoever did the reconciling was an English speaker. (Egan himself, maybe...?)

All speculation on my part, of course. But it's plausible.

I'm sort of with you on that line of thinking. There's just no distinction in japanese. Why would they rename it to something that sounds exactly the same (to the target japanese audience)? Feels more like someone covering the tracks of a past mistake. But oh well.

[Duke Togo]

Megaroad-03 is listed in the Compendium so it is official and somewhere out there, but they didn't say that it has a SDF-4 designation (although it is almost a given? judging from the above naming convention).

I *believe* there is some old official art out there somewhere that shows the tail section of a VF-4 with "SDF-4" on it. Then again, it may have been the SDF-6, LOL. This was back when we had an argument over Megaroad designation a long, long while ago. Anywho, I think we can safely assume the Megaroad-03 was indeed the SDF-4.

Personally, I think Kawamori is playing fast and loose with the continuity at this point, changing it to suit the needs of Frontier's 26 episodes (even episode to episode).

As far as the "Megalord" goes, I *believe* the original design goes back to either the end of the series or the end of the movie. Either way, the sequence never got made, and it was redesigned for 2012, under the name of "Megaroad". I *believe* it was later added to the continuity as a treat for the fans. Don't quote me on any of this, though.

Edited July 4, 2008 by Duke Togo

[Zinjo]

Ep1 reference pic

what we know for sure:

Megaroad-01 is SDF-2

Megaroad-02 is SDF-3

Megaroad-04 is SDF-5

we don't see a Megaroad-03/SDF-4 here.

Megaroad-03 is listed in the Compendium so it is official and somewhere out there, but they didn't say that it has a SDF-4 designation (although it is almost a given? judging from the above naming convention).

So in this case, since the 117th Research Fleet is NOT an immigration fleet (and i assume its safe to say that it is not the Megaroad-03), it's really a big question mark whether the WTF-1's designation is really SDF-4; i think is quite doubtful given the above scenerio (only immigration fleets' ships r given sdf-# designation?).

Unless 117th branched out from within Megaroad-03 and was given the SDF-4 as a flagship. If not, the Global is probably NOT designated as SDF-4.

Hard to say.

If indeed SDF battleships did accompany Megaroads, then what do you do with them when the fleet colonizes? The Global could be at least 20 years old at the time of it's assignment to the research fleet, well past it's prime, not the newest Macross class and without any fleet to accompany.

Could it have been assigned to a duty that doesn't require the type of resources that a 2050 era colony fleet needs?

Also from the above picture, we see Macross05 Macross07 etc and they are the New Macross Class. Although we also do not see a Macross04 here, we can deduce Macross04 is also a New Macross Class and not the old first generation Macross type. So the Global is also probably NOT Macross04.

some other things i noticed:

M-Frontier listed as New Macross Class Aircraft Carrier NMCV-025

and yet later, the Macross25 is designated NCV-025

the discrepancy may be explained by the Macross/Battle ship + Colony being designated NMCV-## and the front portion Macross##/Battle## ship being designated NCV-##

Also noticed TWO Macross017... at the right-most in that pic.

wonder if its a mistake or could be an interesting and new Twin Colony concept?

Possibly or it could be like the Macross 5 fleet with multiple City ships...

[MisaForever]

I *believe* there is some old official art out there somewhere that shows the tail section of a VF-4 with "SDF-4" on it. Then again, it may have been the SDF-6, LOL. This was back when we had an argument over Megaroad designation a long, long while ago. Anywho, I think we can safely assume the Megaroad-03 was indeed the SDF-4.

Personally, I think Kawamori is playing fast and loose with the continuity at this point, changing it to suit the needs of Frontier's 26 episodes (even episode to episode).

As far as the "Megalord" goes, I *believe* the original design goes back to either the end of the series or the end of the movie. Either way, the sequence never got made, and it was redesigned for 2012, under the name of "Megaroad". I *believe* it was later added to the continuity as a treat for the fans. Don't quote me on any of this, though.

Changing to suit?? All of the episodes should already be done awhile ago.

[Shun]

ok i am now looking at Perfect Memory and Entertainment Bible #27.

Perfect Memory's page on SDF-2 has the english name "Megalord". Of course the japanese name would be the same メガロード.

Also, there are some official designs of Misa in the captain uniform as the Captain of SDF-2. Perfect Memory says "Macross ship number 2- メガロード Captain, Last episode Ep#34". EB says "Pre-planned Ep 26 design for Misa as Captain of メガロード". EB description on the SDF-2 says that the sdf-2 was cut from the last ep of the TV series.

and 2012 pic shows a refitted colony ship that says Megaroad-01.

Megalord or Megaroad, i dont think it really matters to the japanese - they will still refer to it as メガロード. It's still the SAME ship, albeit being redesigned in its final stages into a colony ship. but it might be a good idea for english speakers to use the name Megalord when talking about the proposed design of the sdf-2 as compared to Megaroad - the final completed colony ship.

Edited July 4, 2008 by Shun

[Gubaba]

ok i am now looking at Perfect Memory and Entertainment Bible #27.

Perfect Memory's page on SDF-2 has the english name "Megalord". Of course the japanese name would be the same メガロード.

Also, there are some official designs of Misa in the captain uniform as the Captain of SDF-2. Perfect Memory says "Macross ship number 2- メガロード Captain, Last episode Ep#34". EB says "Pre-planned Ep 26 design for Misa as Captain of メガロード". EB description on the SDF-2 says that the sdf-2 was cut from the last ep of the TV series.

and 2012 pic shows a refitted colony ship that says Megaroad-01.

Megalord or Megaroad, i dont think it really matters to the japanese - they will still refer to it as メガロード. It's still the SAME ship, albeit being redesigned in its final stages into a colony ship. but it might be a good idea for english speakers to use the name Megalord when talking about the proposed design of the sdf-2 as compared to Megaroad - the final completed colony ship.

FINALLY! An answer!

Thank you, Shun. You rock harder than Basara!

(And yes, that's a compliment.)

[ShadowValkyrie]

Hard to say.

If indeed SDF battleships did accompany Megaroads, then what do you do with them when the fleet colonizes? The Global could be at least 20 years old at the time of it's assignment to the research fleet, well past it's prime, not the newest Macross class and without any fleet to accompany.

Could it have been assigned to a duty that doesn't require the type of resources that a 2050 era colony fleet needs?

Possibly or it could be like the Macross 5 fleet with multiple City ships...

Well, I suppose, after they colonize the ships could have served/serve as a sort of flagship for the colony. And 20 years for a ship wouldn't make it too old for useful military-- with continual upgrades and modernization to keep it in pace with the fleet. Granted, they would be eventually phased out for newer and better designs, but that could take decades.

Edited July 4, 2008 by ShadowValkyrie

[Zinjo]

ok i am now looking at Perfect Memory and Entertainment Bible #27.

Perfect Memory's page on SDF-2 has the english name "Megalord". Of course the japanese name would be the same メガロード.

Also, there are some official designs of Misa in the captain uniform as the Captain of SDF-2. Perfect Memory says "Macross ship number 2- メガロード Captain, Last episode Ep#34". EB says "Pre-planned Ep 26 design for Misa as Captain of メガロード". EB description on the SDF-2 says that the sdf-2 was cut from the last ep of the TV series.

and 2012 pic shows a refitted colony ship that says Megaroad-01.

Megalord or Megaroad, i dont think it really matters to the japanese - they will still refer to it as メガロード. It's still the SAME ship, albeit being redesigned in its final stages into a colony ship. but it might be a good idea for english speakers to use the name Megalord when talking about the proposed design of the sdf-2 as compared to Megaroad - the final completed colony ship.

Hence the reason why I did.

Thanks Shun for the clarification.

[Zinjo]

Well, I suppose, after they colonize the ships could have served/serve as a sort of flagship for the colony. And 20 years for a ship wouldn't make it too old for useful military-- with continual upgrades and modernization to keep it in pace with the fleet. Granted, they would be eventually phased out for newer and better designs, but that could take decades.

The last Megaroad may have sailed no later than 2029 since the New Macross 1 was built in 2030. However we only know of 13 for sure and the Megaroad 13 launched in 2014.

Edited July 4, 2008 by Zinjo

[Duke Togo]

The last Megaroad may have sailed no later than 2029 since the New Macross 1 was built in 2030. However we only know of 13 for sure and the Megaroad 13 launched in 2014.

Megaroad-03 launched in 2014, not the -13.

[Zinjo]

Megaroad-03 launched in 2014, not the -13.

You're right, my bad.

I read the wrong line in the compendium.

Thanks

[Duke Togo]

You're right, my bad.

I read the wrong line in the compendium.

Thanks

I assumed it was a typo.

[Renato]

Changing to suit?? All of the episodes should already be done awhile ago.

No, it doesn't work that way; they're still making it.

[Zinjo]

No, it doesn't work that way; they're still making it.

Maybe parts of it, like CG or 2D animation, but most likely it is in the final few episodes by now (unless it goes to a second season).

Most series are in the can months before the final air date.

In this case, if the series is mostly shot, they'd be working on cleaning up sequences for the BD and DVD releases. The first 2 eps of the regular season are scheduled to come out on Disc in September...

[azrael]

Maybe parts of it, like CG or 2D animation, but most likely it is in the final few episodes by now (unless it goes to a second season).

Most series are in the can months before the final air date.

Not quite so with Japanese productions. They may have things mapped out months in advanced, but actually 2D/CG/ voice work is probably closer only being about a month-1.5 months ahead. J-Dramas and the hero shows are usually done about 2-3 weeks before they air. I recall seeing with the Masked Rider series, actors were presented with flowers and gifts on their respective final day of filming. With the main actors, this was about 2-3 weeks (sometimes 1-1.5 weeks before) prior to the last episode being on the air. With anime, it's probably not terribly different.

[JB0]

Not quite so with Japanese productions. They may have things mapped out months in advanced, but actually 2D/CG/ voice work is probably closer only being about a month-1.5 months ahead. J-Dramas and the hero shows are usually done about 2-3 weeks before they air. I recall seeing with the Masked Rider series, actors were presented with flowers and gifts on their respective final day of filming. With the main actors, this was about 2-3 weeks (sometimes 1-1.5 weeks before) prior to the last episode being on the air. With anime, it's probably not terribly different.

If I recall, the interviews on ye olde Animeigo DVDs said the original Macross had episodes finish shooting pretty much right before they were scheduled to air.

And of course, we know they scrapped a season, rewrote the entire show to abbreviate the main plot arc, then added a season and had to write the post-war arc and some "filler" episodes to pad the episode count back out.

Granted the industry runs a bit differently now, but... I suspect it's not THAT different. They just finish rendering instead of shooting cels.

Edited July 6, 2008 by JB0

[Duke Togo]

If I recall, the interviews on ye olde Animeigo DVDs said the original Macross had episodes finish shooting pretty much right before they were scheduled to air.

I think there may have been an instance or two that they didn't get the footage in until the day of.

[Duke Togo]

When I said episode to episode, I didn't mean on the fly. What I meant was I suspect when these scripts were being written, there was a certain disregard for what may be canon, retcon, or just made up on the spot. While we see Megaroads designated as "SDF" in the opening sequence of episode 1, its very possible they chose to totally disregard it for the "Global" story in 12 & 13. Afterall, its only a cartoon, who could possibly care (outside of these international english speaking nutjobs).

[dreamweaver13]

ok, finally got to see the episode. that WTF-1 through us all for a loop.

props to zinjo and the rest for not shouting out a big frackin "I TOLD YOU SO!". haha. you got this one right on.

yes, it's amazing how one episode can rock a whole franchise.

so.. the old macross designs are made specifically for non-colony fleets?

ok... how's the timelinme on this one? if the macross/sdf4 global was built and launched around the time of the 117th research fleet, when was it commissioned? sometime before 2047, thereabouts? they were still coming out with 1st gen macross designs around that time?

[VF-25 Messiah]

ok, finally got to see the episode. that WTF-1 through us all for a loop.

props to zinjo and the rest for not shouting out a big frackin "I TOLD YOU SO!". haha. you got this one right on.

yes, it's amazing how one episode can rock a whole franchise.

so.. the old macross designs are made specifically for non-colony fleets?

ok... how's the timelinme on this one? if the macross/sdf4 global was built and launched around the time of the 117th research fleet, when was it commissioned? sometime before 2047, thereabouts? they were still coming out with 1st gen macross designs around that time?

Might've been reassigned? A research fleet doesn't strike me as the prime candidate to recieve the latest in battle cruisers, but a Macross would make for an impressive flagship nontheless, I think.

[Mr March]

The SDF-1 Macross wasn't even new, but a refurbished Supervision Army Gunboat and it was still in service some 30 years later (more if we count the video games). If it's anything like Zentradi technology, the Macross ships might function reliably for thousands of years.

The SDF-04 Global might very well be several decades old itself, if it was built somewhere between 2012 and 2020. The SDF-04 Global might have been only 30-35 years old in 2048 when the Vajra attacked it and effectively ended it's career. That'd be about the same age as the SDF-1 last time we saw it in action.

[dreamweaver13]

so what's the factor in deciding to design a macross based on the 1st gen design? ok how about this for a theory: whenever humans encounter a supervision army gunboat (like they did in SDFM), they redesign it similarly to the SDF1 and incorporate it into the fleet. research fleets being the bottom priority (as compared to the colony fleets) are assigned these old-school SA gunboats as their respective escort battleships.

[JB0]

so what's the factor in deciding to design a macross based on the 1st gen design? ok how about this for a theory: whenever humans encounter a supervision army gunboat (like they did in SDFM), they redesign it similarly to the SDF1 and incorporate it into the fleet. research fleets being the bottom priority (as compared to the colony fleets) are assigned these old-school SA gunboats as their respective escort battleships.

Well, right now the only other SA ship they've found was the one in the factory satellite episode.

And they wisely chose not to stop and investigate it since the Supervision Army is well-known for booby-trapping ships. You know, like the Macross was.

It could be rather dangerous to run around reclaiming SA vessels.

That and... honestly, the Macross seemed a lot more useful than the Battle 7. HOW long did it take to charge the Battle 7's "rifle"? The lag after you decide to fire is a serious tactical hindrance. The original Macross can fire it's cannon almost on a moment's notice.

Edited July 7, 2008 by JB0

[Morpheus]

That and... honestly, the Macross seemed a lot more useful than the Battle 7. HOW long did it take to charge the Battle 7's "rifle"? The lag after you decide to fire is a serious tactical hindrance. The original Macross can fire it's cannon almost on a moment's notice.

Agree, the original Macross is far more powerfull than Battle 7.

Quick comparison between the 3 Macross class ship:

SDF-1 Macross -> Macross Cannon, Destroids, EM and beam cannons, reaction missiles, PPB , VF squadrons

Battle-7 -> Macross Cannon, reaction missiles, PPB, VF squadrons.

Quarter -> Macross Cannon, Destroids, beam cannons, reaction missiles, PPB ,VF squadrons

So, my quess is SDF-1>Quarter>Battle-7

Edited July 7, 2008 by Morpheus

[JB0]

Agree, the original Macross is far more powerfull than Battle 7.

Quick comparison between the 3 Macross class ship:

SDF-1 Macross -> Macross Cannon, Destroids, EM and beam cannons, reaction missiles, PPB , VF squadrons

Battle-7 -> Macross Cannon, reaction missiles, PPB, VF squadrons.

Quarter -> Macross Cannon, Destroids, beam cannons, reaction missiles, PPB ,VF squadrons

So, my quess is SDF-1>Quarter>Battle-7

Of course, the Quarter's presumed lack of power(an assumption I share) is somewhat offset by the (rather absurd) degree of agility it exhibits. I think it could fly rings around ships the original Macross would plow right into(probably while someone shouted "Daedalus ATTACK!", but still...)

The Battle 7 doesn't really have an excuse. It's slow, underarmed, and underpowered. Which is a lousy combination.

That was my biggest disappointment with Macross 7. The New Macross class was a massive letdown.