WTF-1 Discsussion Thread

[Mr March]

Actually logic itself dictates that it must be the SDF-1 Macross. Like I just said, after Space War I ended there weren't enough resources to build more SDFs and the Colonization program demanded ships more focused in carrying huge populations than engaging in space warfare

The UNS had not the resources to build a 1,200m long ship, so they use their "limited resources" to build a 5,000m long ship instead? Yes indeed, I see the "logic"

I think azrael is right, I'm just gonna wait this one out

[lord_breetai]

The only problem is... how exactly do you do a bait and switch on that scale without anyone noticing?

I guess they build the fake macross in space and have it land after the real one takes off...

On the other hand how observent are the people who populate anime universes? I mean these are the people who can't recognize Henshin heroes and Magical girls when they're not in costume.

[JB0]

I guess they build the fake macross in space and have it land after the real one takes off...

On the other hand how observent are the people who populate anime universes? I mean these are the people who can't recognize Henshin heroes and Magical girls when they're not in costume.

They actually DID recognize Sasami!

I love Magical Project S. And it's kinda sad when a magical girl spoof is more believable than the actual thing.

Anyways, at this point it's really impossible to say what's going on one way or the other.

Summary of the situation as it stands now.

Fact: There's only one Classic Macross.

Fact: It's on Earth.

Speculation: The Macross is NOT on Earth and has either vanished since Plus or was replaced by a decoy some time before Plus.

Speculation: There's lots of Classic Macrosses, and Alto and Ranka are mistaken in calling this the "real" one, probably just due to it's iconic status.

Speculation: They've fallen into the past and this is the original Macross on Earth after SW1.

Speculation: It's THE Macross. But one that was battling evil in another dimension. Possibly one that's full of Gunstars instead of Valkyries. This would be awesome beyond words. I now DEMAND Frontier do this. Death blossoms ahoy!

Speculation: It's the SDF-2 that was(n't) in Robotech. Haromony Gold DOES own everything Macross-related, after all.

Speculation: Whatever your pet theory is. It's just as likely for about a week.

[Kronnang Dunn]

The UNS had not the resources to build a 1,200m long ship, so they use their "limited resources" to build a 5,000m long ship instead? Yes indeed, I see the "logic"

Indeed... It had more space for the colonists and less weaponry and energy conversion systems. Very logic... for me at least...

Edited June 30, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Mr March]

Seems filled with machinery, buildings and equipment to me, and tens of thousands more crew. The SDF-1 was the empty "space" can until the civilian pop filled it up. Megaroad volume alone would be several hundred times that of an SDF vessel and as a colony ship requires far more resources to supply, fuel, and maintain for multi-year, long-distance exploration than a naval vessel almost one-fifth the size. Yep, less resources. Roll eyes smiley engage!

[ChrisG]

I just find it pointless since the answer is probably coming this Thursday... Which is why I'm not bothering with these speculation threads. You should be glad you don't suffer as much with Gundam...

There's an azrael on Mecha Talk, but I'm not sure if it's you. If it's not, I guess you didn't see any of the dozen threads we had for Gundam 00 starting from the moment the show was announced to the season finale. Some of that stuff was so out there that it makes these debates on the WTF-1 look like a scientific discussion between Einstein and Hawking.

[YajimaTakashi]

My thought on why she might be there is this, and this goes back to her launch in 2009:

Maybe there was still one more Boobytrap that no one knew about.

[lord_breetai]

They actually DID recognize Sasami!

I love Magical Project S. And it's kinda sad when a magical girl spoof is more believable than the actual thing.

Speculation: It's THE Macross. But one that was battling evil in another dimension. Possibly one that's full of Gunstars instead of Valkyries. This would be awesome beyond words. I now DEMAND Frontier do this. Death blossoms ahoy!

Speculation: It's the SDF-2 that was(n't) in Robotech. Haromony Gold DOES own everything Macross-related, after all.

Yeah but Sammy/Sasami never saw through Pixy Misa's disguise even after the hillarious "I've kidnapped Misao" scene where she kept transforming till she ran out of breath.

And alternate universe is probably not going to happen... even if it didn't hail from the Robotech universe you know RT fans would say it id.

Though it would be kinda cool if it was, it'd be like that Stan Bundy fanfic.

[azrael]

There's an azrael on Mecha Talk, but I'm not sure if it's you.

If it's not, I guess you didn't see any of the dozen threads we had for Gundam 00 starting from the moment the show was announced to the season finale. Some of that stuff was so out there that it makes these debates on the WTF-1 look like a scientific discussion between Einstein and Hawking.

I joined somewhere in the middle of 00's airing. But anyways...

[Kronnang Dunn]

Seems filled with machinery, buildings and equipment to me, and tens of thousands more crew. The SDF-1 was the empty "space" can until the civilian pop filled it up. Megaroad volume alone would be several hundred times that of an SDF vessel and as a colony ship requires far more resources to supply, fuel, and maintain for multi-year, long-distance exploration than a naval vessel almost one-fifth the size. Yep, less resources. Roll eyes smiley engage!

Indeed. Obviously designed more for colonization than space warfare. That's the reason for all those smaller carriers, frigates and refited zent ships as escorts... and not a multi-SDF-1 fleet... just waaay too expensive and energy-consuming (Super Dimension Cannon anyone?)...

[Avngr]

My thought on why she might be there is this, and this goes back to her launch in 2009:

Maybe there was still one more Boobytrap that no one knew about.

On the Macross original series, at the episode Viva Maria they find a Supervision Army vessel badly damaged abandoned in the space. Misa tries to convince Breetai to go there study, but he say's it's probably a booby trap, like Macross, so they leave it there.

[YajimaTakashi]

On the Macross original series, at the episode Viva Maria they find a Supervision Army vessel badly damaged abandoned in the space. Misa tries to convince Breetai to go there study, but he say's it's probably a booby trap, like Macross, so they leave it there.

Given that she was a Boobytrap by the SA in case the Zentran came across her. Who is to say that regardless of all the retrofitting that was done to her over the course of time, that there wasn't still one thing that had not gone off on her. I mean you can have a New Macross, Nupiet Vergntz, Bodol or Megaroad Class crash land on that planet and no one would say nothing. But given it's the Macross itself, everyone finds it hard to believe that the ship would be there instead of sitting in Alaska in the center of a lake.

The ship has always been the center of mystery in the Macross Universe, next to the Birdman, Atillia, Rux, and the fate of the Megaroad-01. Why is it hard for so many fans to believe that what they saw was the Macross.

Edited June 30, 2008 by YajimaTakashi

[ChrisG]

My thought on why she might be there is this, and this goes back to her launch in 2009:

Maybe there was still one more Boobytrap that no one knew about.

Again, as has been stated in this thread and others, it isn't possible. This SDF's appearance with ARMD carriers for arms is clearly of human design, not Supervision Army. Whether or not this ship is the Macross, it simply can't be an unmodified Supervision Army ship.

[YajimaTakashi]

Again, as has been stated in this thread and others, it isn't possible. This SDF's appearance with ARMD carriers for arms is clearly of human design, not Supervision Army. Whether or not this ship is the Macross, it simply can't be an unmodified Supervision Army ship.

Yes Macross was retrofitted into a UN ship, but she is still Supervision Army in Origin. Yes she has the ARMD's, but that isn't to say that there still might be something leftover from those times.

I mean she fricking blew up part of an island and two Zentran ships when they entered the solar system, then when they tried to launch her, the antigravs were ripped out of the hull. And then there was the whole fold incident that took her and South Ataria to the other end of the Terran Solar System. Macross might still have some mysteries in that hull of hers. And I would not put that past Kawamori either

Edited June 30, 2008 by YajimaTakashi

[ChrisG]

Yes Macross was retrofitted into a UN ship, but she is still Supervision Army in Origin. Yes she has the ARMD's, but that isn't to say that there still might be something leftover from those times.

I mean she fricking blew up part of an island and two Zentran ships when they entered the solar system, then when they tried to launch her, the antigravs were ripped out of the hull. And then there was the whole fold incident that took her and South Ataria to the other end of the Terran Solar System. Macross might still have some mysteries in that hull of hers. And I would not put that past Kawamori either

I'm not really going to bother addressing this, because like almost all the other speculation on this subject, people seem to prefer making tons of unfounded assumptions rather than just accepting the most likely explanation - that it IS the Macross. That's the most obvious answer going by Occam's Razor, rather than all this speculation.

[dreamweaver13]

i just find it interesting... as one of the naysayers pointed out (i can't remember who, sorry), the reason why he denies that it's the real macross on galia4 is that he can't accept the fact that the most special ship in the macross franchise is on some forgotten planet.

on the other hand, one of the theories of the "it's not macross" following is that there might have been other macrosses built.

if i were a purist (who am i kidding, i am.), and a romantic, i would definitely choose the former. i'd rather the real macross goes back in action -- even in a forgotten planet -- then to find out that the iconic macross design came out of a production line at one point.

after all, i think the whole point of the producers in using an absolutely different design for the megaroad 1 (and subsequent ships) was to give the Macross the proper iconic status it deserves.

Edited June 30, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[YajimaTakashi]

I'm not really going to bother addressing this, because like almost all the other speculation on this subject, people seem to prefer making tons of unfounded assumptions rather than just accepting the most likely explanation - that it IS the Macross. That's the most obvious answer going by Occam's Razor, rather than all this speculation.

You seem to be missing what I am saying. I agree it is the Macross, I am not saying otherwise. All I am saying based on theory and given the ship's history which has been stated and shown in canon. It just would not surprise me if they accidentially set off one more boobytrap. Until we see it on the next episode, we don't know why she's there.

[Gubaba]

I'm not really going to bother addressing this, because like almost all the other speculation on this subject, people seem to prefer making tons of unfounded assumptions rather than just accepting the most likely explanation - that it IS the Macross. That's the most obvious answer going by Occam's Razor, rather than all this speculation.

I also think it's the real, original Macross...but I just want to point out that Occam's Razor doesn't really work so well with fiction, so I wish people would stop using it...

[Mr March]

Indeed. Obviously designed more for colonization than space warfare. That's the reason for all those smaller carriers, frigates and refited zent ships as escorts... and not a multi-SDF-1 fleet... just waaay too expensive and energy-consuming (Super Dimension Cannon anyone?)...

I agree, the Megaroad was far more expensive and required far more resources than even a dozen SDF-1s, so it wasn't for lack of either that stopped them building more SDF-1 ships

[ChrisG]

You seem to be missing what I am saying. I agree it is the Macross, I am not saying otherwise. All I am saying based on theory and given the ship's history which has been stated and shown in canon. It just would not surprise me if they accidentially set off one more boobytrap. Until we see it on the next episode, we don't know why she's there.

My apologies on the confusion.

[Radd]

I am not going to speculate on what it is we're looking at at the end of episode 12. I'm just going to throw out a couple things I noticed, that I have not seen anyone bring up yet.

First, Alto referred to the Quarter at the end of episode 7, the same way he refers to the WTF-1 at the end of episode 12, "Macross!" Given that, isn't it safe to assume Battle 7 could have been sitting there and he probably would have said the very same thing?

Second, well this isn't a statement or anything, more of a question. How "official" is Macross VO? Because in that game a ship more or less identical to the SDF-1 Macross is featured, but it's referred to as the SDF-9 or Megaroad 3 or something. I forget exactly, but it was not supposed to be the Macross by my understanding.

Third, just how "wrecked" is the WTF-1? I mean, seriously. We do not see it clearly in the show. It certainly appears dirty. It definitely looks as though it has been sitting there for a very long time with no one dusting it off and cleaning the windows. But is it really wrecked? I imagine we'll find out next episode when Alto and Ranka go exploring, but in the meantime I'd say it's jumping to conclusions to say it's a wreck.

Again, not speculating, not debating. Just tossing things out there. Given how quickly 12 came out, we might have our answers in 3-4 more days.

[Gubaba]

Wouldn't it be funny if Frontier were cancelled tomorrow, and the staff was so upset about it they all made a pact never to speak about what would've happened in episodes 13 onward...?

[Beltane70]

Gubaba, please don't say things like that! If Frontier was to be canceled before its completion, I'd probably cry! A lot.

[Master Dex]

Wouldn't it be funny if Frontier were cancelled tomorrow, and the staff was so upset about it they all made a pact never to speak about what would've happened in episodes 13 onward...?

Don't give any of them any ideas in case they are the kind of people that actually read fan comments on the internet for ideas. Of course the likelihood of Japanese show writers getting ideas from an American hosted message board presented in English is unlikely.

[Kronnang Dunn]

I agree, the Megaroad was far more expensive and required far more resources than even a dozen SDF-1s, so it wasn't for lack of either that stopped them building more SDF-1 ships

I believe the key words here are function and time. Even the SDF-1 couldn't sustain the population it had for great periods of time (remember "Bye Bye Mars"). All that "machinery" in the Megaroad superstructure were habitational/colonization facilities, so I believe that the SDF-1, despite being a great combat vessel, just wasn't fit for the Colonization Program. It was too dependable on resources from Earth and could transport half the population the Megaroad could (40,000 in the SDF-1 vs 80,000 in the Megaroad). The Megaroad is more of an island/carrier combo than a combat ship...

Now, after Quamzin's final attack Global realized that the Colonization Program should start A.S.A.P. to avoid humanity from being decimated (by either other Zentradi fleets or Supervision Army survivors). The more colonists that could be transported to other planets, the better...

So basically, he had 2 choices:

a) Finish the SDF-2, which had great weaponry, BUT consumed lots of energy and resources and could carry only 40,000-50,000 people.

b) Modify the SDF-2 into a less armed but better suited for colonization vessel (The Megaroad), which could transport 2 times the amount of colonists (80,000 people) and was less dependable on Earth resources, with Vrlitwhai Kridanik's Nupetiet Vergnitz as escort. Start repairing the SDF-1 to keep it as Earth's permanent defense.

I believe the right choice must have been obvious...

Afterwards, more Megaroads were produced and they were escorted by refited Zentradi ships and Guantanamo carriers. Then came the Bolognese Frigates and the Uraga Carriers and finally, when more planets were colonized (and the U.N. Spacy had the available resources) came the New Macross class.

So this is why I believe the ship we saw at the end of episode 12 was the SDF-1 Macross and nothing else... (You don't wanna know what must have happened in Earth...).

Edited July 1, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Gubaba]

Gubaba, please don't say things like that! If Frontier was to be canceled before its completion, I'd probably cry! A lot.

I would too, actually...

Don't give any of them any ideas in case they are the kind of people that actually read fan comments on the internet for ideas. Of course the likelihood of Japanese show writers getting ideas from an American hosted message board presented in English is unlikely.

In the Big West Planning Office: "Okay, guys, I got it from the Hory Froating Head himself...some doofus on some English fan board said it would be funny if we all quit, and the Froating One agreed! So that's a wrap, start packing up. I want you out of here by noon at the latest..."

By the way...it IS the SDF-1 Macross.

[Radd]

Also, what's all this talk about lacking resources? After Space War I mankind had more resources available than at any previous point in human history.

[Morpheus]

If WTF-1 doesn't have a bridge attached, I can say that thing is the SDF-1 from Macross II, Ingus must blasted it so powerfully until it cross universes.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Also, what's all this talk about lacking resources? After Space War I mankind had more resources available than at any previous point in human history.

Perhaps we did, but those resources were not ready to be used in colonization fleets right away... Time would past until the ships of the colonization program were built...

Edited July 1, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Radd]

Not very much time, by the looks of the Chronology. They began pumping out colony fleets very quickly. The factory satellite and fold technology provide the perfect plot devices to open the resources of the solar system to mankind at the writer's convenience. And, of course, we already know that Zentradi cloning practices were put to use to beef up Earth's population at an unprecedented rate, at least for a brief period early in the colony program.

[lord_breetai]

If WTF-1 doesn't have a bridge attached, I can say that thing is the SDF-1 from Macross II, Ingus must blasted it so powerfully until it cross universes.

Sadly for you I see a bridge.

[Hurin]

Haven't been following the new series. But the only thing I thought when I saw this was:

(heston)

"You Maniacs! . . . You blew it up! . . . Ah, damn you! . . . God damn you all to hell!

(/heston)

[lord_breetai]

Haven't been following the new series. But the only thing I thought when I saw this was:

"You Maniacs! . . . You blew it up! . . . Ah, damn you! . . . God damn you all to hell!

(/heston)

That joke has been made quite a few times already...

[Renato]

The Protoculture was super-duper advanced, so overcoming the fold dislocations must have been very easy for them. But after 500,000 years it seems unlikely they exist anymore...

Hey, the narrator said it, not me. I'm just putting two and two together.

The line was something like:

"This is the limitation of all humans, no, all civilizations derived from Protoculture."

So I'm assuming that the implication is: the Vajra have accomplished something neither Protoculture or humanity managed.

What the hell do I know, Kawamori will probably change it halfway through. The line IS in there though, and I can only assume that it is for a reason.

[Keith]

Zinjo, you failed to find Waldo, and as such, failed to back any substance in your argument. I'm done with this since nothing short of travelling 3 days into the future & handing you a copy of the episode is going to snap reason into you. Believe in your magical Macross copies attached to Megaroads for a couple days longer & enjoy it. As far as me goes, I'll be getting excited about seeing the original Macross, and hopefully finding out just how the U.N. Spacy fell.