Can you 'Gate a Valk?

[Stormrider]

So, I'm sitting here, thinking about that one SG-1 episode where Teal'c flew a Goa'uld Death Glider through the Stargate, and wondering, "Can you do it with a Valk?"

Working from a picture of the 'Gate I got from Wikipedia, the aperture on the Gate is roughly 15.184 feet across (call it 15 ft 2 in). I need the help of MW'ers with 1/48 -1s and 1/60 -19s who have some form of measuring equipment. The major dimension is going to be width (not even going to bother working out how hard it would be to hit the 'Gate cleanly when you're tucking all your control surfaces away), so I'd like to know the width of the -1 and the -19 at their widest point, with their wings tucked. With the -1 it's easy, but I have a picture of what I mean for the -19.

Anyone wanting to submit VF-0, -11, or -21 data as well are welcome, but I mainly care about the -1 and -19.

Thanks.

[Scream Man]

Well this is a whole new level of Geeky....

Id laugh, except my first thoughts were how to pull this off, so who am i to judge?

My immediate thoughts are no. The 19 cant tuck its wings the way u descrie, especially not in flight, and neither can the 1. i dont know the body spans, but the ones that CAN more completely fold their wings (21 and 51) i think qould be too wide bodied anyway.

So while i say no, I loved the idea.

And u could always use the Supergate.....

[eugimon]

they can fold, so there's really not much point to using a stargate.

Though, could you imagine the look of surprise at stargate command?

[transfan52]

Wow... somebody's watching too much stargate... This question is almost as nerdy as the universal sci fi speculation of who would win... starwars or star trek?

[eugimon]

Wow... somebody's watching too much stargate... This question is almost as nerdy as the universal sci fi speculation of who would win... starwars or star trek?

You've never watched every episode of SG-1 and Atlantis and the direct to DVD movie, so please don't talk like you have any idea of what's going on.

[transfan52]

You've never watched every episode of SG-1 and Atlantis and the direct to DVD movie, so please don't talk like you have any idea of what's going on.

HAHA... funny

[eugimon]

HAHA... funny

I risked the wrath of jeremy to post that.

[Stormrider]

Wow... somebody's watching too much stargate... This question is almost as nerdy as the universal sci fi speculation of who would win... starwars or star trek?

In a fight, I'm not sure.

In a race, SW FTW. SW vessels have Trek vessels faded both sublight and FTL

I get these odd ideas at times. I'm still wondering if a Strike Valk could have made a difference on Hoth...

Edited June 27, 2008 by Stormrider

[Stormrider]

Well this is a whole new level of Geeky....

Id laugh, except my first thoughts were how to pull this off, so who am i to judge?

My immediate thoughts are no. The 19 cant tuck its wings the way u descrie, especially not in flight, and neither can the 1. i dont know the body spans, but the ones that CAN more completely fold their wings (21 and 51) i think qould be too wide bodied anyway.

So while i say no, I loved the idea.

And u could always use the Supergate.....

I know the -19 can't tuck its wings the way a -1 can. In the picture I posted, the wings and wing roots are folded as in Battroid. This actually makes it a little wider along the fuselage, but compared to wings-extended...

As for the -1, I recognize you'd have to have it moving pretty quick to keep it in the air with body lift alone, but I thought I'd pointed that out already.

As for the Supergate, in that case might just as well send the Macross through. And the episode I mentioned was several years before the Ori and Supergates.

[Sumdumgai]

Hey guys, actually the YF-19 has a high speed mode where the forward canted wings fold back all the way. Yes, physically it's impossible due to the way the wings are shaped, but there's line art (pg82 of Macross Design Works) and it's done in Macross VFX2 when you go at maximum speed in fighter mode with the VF-19A Excalibur.

[Scream Man]

the fold back, yes, but not to a narrow enough profile to make it through a gate.

i love the whole idea of Cross sci-fi. Could an Xwing beat a Viper? Could a VF-1 take down a Gundam? Could the Guyver suit beat the Tekkaman Armour?

i love this kind of stuff!

[hal9000]

Just go in Battroid crawl/climb like you locked the keys in the car and left the window half open.

No I've never had to do that.

[F-ZeroOne]

It can be done, but you need some chewing gum and the Moons gravitational pull.

[Fort Max]

Though, could you imagine the look of surprise at stargate command?

Not to mention the mess afterwards.

[Godzilla]

You ppl have way too much time on your hands. Go buy an xbox or other game console to become a geek in your own private home. Better yet, you guys need to find a GF. Better yet can you get one. Next thing you know someone will ask about a VF-1 vs Xwing or a veritech vs Xwing (yes I saw that idiotic post on Robotech.com.) or even better a Cylon raider vs the VF-1... Then again I got no room to talk to with my collection...

[eugimon]

Oooh, which is stronger, the Force or Spiritia? Would Basara have been able to turn Palpatine from the Dark Side through the power of song?

Who has bigger mechanical breasts, Aphrodite-1 or Myelene's VF-11?

[Sumdumgai]

The biggest clash of all. VF-1 Valkyrie vs VF-1 Veritech. I forsee a bloodbath!

[QuinJester]

Oooh, which is stronger, the Force or Spiritia? Would Basara have been able to turn Palpatine from the Dark Side through the power of song?

Who has bigger mechanical breasts, Aphrodite-1 or Myelene's VF-11?

Aphrodite-1, totally.

... oh wait, are we not supposed to actually be having this discussion? Crap.

[Stormrider]

You ppl have way too much time on your hands. Go buy an xbox or other game console to become a geek in your own private home. Better yet, you guys need to find a GF. Better yet can you get one. Next thing you know someone will ask about a VF-1 vs Xwing or a veritech vs Xwing (yes I saw that idiotic post on Robotech.com.) or even better a Cylon raider vs the VF-1... Then again I got no room to talk to with my collection...

1. I have an Xbox already.

2. X-Wing for the win. Shields, heavier lasers, and much more acceleration. Plus the astromech to watch your six for you.

3. Larson raider or Moore raider?

[Scream Man]

You ppl have way too much time on your hands. Go buy an xbox or other game console to become a geek in your own private home. Better yet, you guys need to find a GF. Better yet can you get one. Next thing you know someone will ask about a VF-1 vs Xwing or a veritech vs Xwing (yes I saw that idiotic post on Robotech.com.) or even better a Cylon raider vs the VF-1... Then again I got no room to talk to with my collection...

I have an xbox, Im married, did indeed find a GF (Several vefore i got married in fact) and a VF-1 could beat an Xwing or a Cylon raider based on the transforming ability giving it more manouverability.

There are harder ones than that. a VF-1 vs a Gundam for example, I suspect the Gundam would win....

[Stormrider]

The biggest clash of all. VF-1 Valkyrie vs VF-1 Veritech. I forsee a bloodbath!

That's a toughie, considering the Veritech has a form of BCS (or so I understood). I think it would come down to the pilot.

Anyway, back to topic. Has anybody taken those measurements yet?

[Stormrider]

I have an xbox, Im married, did indeed find a GF (Several vefore i got married in fact) and a VF-1 could beat an Xwing or a Cylon raider based on the transforming ability giving it more manouverability.

I'm not sure about VF-1 vs. X-wing, unless you're in atmosphere. VF-1 pulls, what, 10 Gs? In space, the X-wing does 3,700 (according to EGVV) The X-Wing has shields, which the Valk doesn't, and presumably heavier lasers. Plus the X-wing has acceleration compensators, which would allow it to pull more Gs in a turn than the Valk can. Best chance a (FAST-Pack equipped) Valk would have against an X-wing would be to let it get in behind him, then pop off a couple of aft-facing SRMs.

There are harder ones than that. a VF-1 vs a Gundam for example, I suspect the Gundam would win....

That would be a tough fight. As I understand it, all Gundams generate Minovsky particles, which blind both IR and Radar detection, leaving it a visual fight, and rendering most missile systems useless (and I don't think Valks carry laser-guided). Just what type of Gundam are we talking about here?

[Scream Man]

Any type really. a VF-1 is not a very agile craft ij terms of close quaters combat, and a Gundam is a vey close quaters kind of mech. If the -1 can hokld it at range for a bit, it might wear ity down with its gunpod, but i suspect the Gundam would get in close and finish it.

As fotr the Xwing, the 1 can transform, which lends itself to a greater manouverability and range of fire than an xwing, which is locked into turning circles. Yes, the Xwing has shields, but i suspect they could be worn down by bullets.

[J.T. Silversmith]

I love trying to compare Mecha like this, though often the hardest thing is trying to figure out concrete points of comparison. As far as Gundam Vs Valkyrie combat, there are lots of things to consider. First off is what model you are talking about. As a baseline let's start with the VF-1 and the RX-78-2 in standard configuration. The Gundam is larger (18 Meters vs 14) and heavier (43.4 metric tons empty vs 13.25). The VF-1 has greater acceleration in space (+7G's vs .93G's) and has a greater power output(650 MW vs 1380 kW). Walking on the ground the Gundam it a teeny bit faster(165 km/h vs 160 km/h), but how often do we see a VF only running? it usually uses thrusters to skate around and may be faster in reality. Armor is much harder to compare because they are both fictional materials. (Lunar Titanium alloy vs Hyper-carbon SWAG armor) I've got to say the Gundam has tons more armor than a VF. In the original cartoon, you see 105 MM Zaku machine gun rounds bounce off the armor easily. Armament also goes to the Gundam, The beam rifle is supposed to do the kind of damage a battleship does, though it only has 16 shots. The VF-1's head lasers have unlimited ammo but can't match that kind of firepower. the Gundam's two 60 MM headvulcans are larger caliber than the VF-1's gunpod. The VF has missiles, but due to Minovisky particle radiation, they probably would not be able to target the Gundam at long range. They may work at short range, but it will be easier for the Gundam to dodge or shoot down. The Gundam is a heavy hitter, one hit with any weapon would annihilate a VF, but with the VF more than seven times as agile in space, will it ever be able to hit it? The VF can Fly circles around the Gundam, but the gunpod is ineffective, and the missiles are unreliable. Its only effective weapons are the head lasers, and I really don't know how well they can really do. So who wins? I'm going to cop out and say the one with the better pilot.

If the VF is packing UUM-7 micro-missile pods, they are much more likely to hit, as they are meant to be used in relatively close quarters, giving an edge to the VF. Unless the Gundam is packing his Bazooka, then it is still a draw. If the VF has a FAST Pack it is definitely the favorite, though it is still close. I think a Strike equipped VF has a major advantage, the RO-X2A high-powered double-action beam cannon is probably now in the same league as the Gundam beam cannon, and it still fast and agile, and has many short range missiles. If the VF has RMS-1 reaction warheads, it's game over. Even though the VF may not get a target lock with the missiles, you would only need to get close. IIRC there is only one Gundam designed to survive a close proximity from a nuke, and this one is not it.

[daeudi]

Oh, that's simple..... you arm the VF-1 with RMS-1 missiles.

No contest Just get close enough to detonate.

And considering the mission profile, perfectly appropriate

(Although... I bet Strike Cannons would dent a Gundam pretty nice.)

<<EDIT: All of which was aptly stated by JT in the post right before mine... D'Oh!>>

===

Now- `gating a valk... no go... the VF-1 couldn't even crawl thru.

Stargate EXTERNAL Diameter: 6.7 m

VF-1 Battroid Width: 7.3 m

VF-1 Fighter, swept wings: 8.25 m

Edited June 29, 2008 by daeudi

[JB0]

As fotr the Xwing, the 1 can transform, which lends itself to a greater manouverability and range of fire than an xwing, which ...

... has inertial dampers.

Remember when Guld got turned into strawberry jam fighting the Ghost?

The X-Wing can outfly anything in the Macross universe due to that one tiny piece of technobabble.

[eugimon]

even if the x-wing didn't have inertial dampers and they were spec'd out exactly the same as a valk.... shields and infinite ammo lasers gives them the edge.

[Chindenathus]

Any type really. a VF-1 is not a very agile craft ij terms of close quaters combat, and a Gundam is a vey close quaters kind of mech. If the -1 can hokld it at range for a bit, it might wear ity down with its gunpod, but i suspect the Gundam would get in close and finish it.

As fotr the Xwing, the 1 can transform, which lends itself to a greater manouverability and range of fire than an xwing, which is locked into turning circles. Yes, the Xwing has shields, but i suspect they could be worn down by bullets.

Just to get the bolded part out of the way first:

Any Star Wars fighter with basic particle shields would laugh at a 55.mm solid projectile pretty much infinitely.

And consider even the fragile TIE Fighter has this basic form of shielding.

Macross Mecha:

Engineering: Macross and its two primary races have access to some damned fine engineering.

All of the UN-SPACY's hardware is designed to be versatile, and competent at their job. This

is especially so by the time of Macross+Plus and Macross 7.

Offensive: Some excellent energy weapons technology pilfered from Zent technology. Also

Reflex and Reactive weapons are something to take serious by pretty much all Sci-fi settings.

Defensive: Physical armor that ranges from adequate (Vf-1) to decent (Destroids and armored Valks).

The UN-SPACY is at he edge of decent force barrier technology but still is in the minor leagues compaired

to higher end Sci-fi/fantasy.

Gundam UC:

Engineering: The Universal Century setting has a varied level of quality when it comes to it's technical

achievements. Some units are truly superior, whereas some plainly do not rank well. Generally

humanity's learning curve is pretty steep in th UC setting. The early mecha are tough but are also

designed clunkily, but by the later part of the continuity the designs are pretty outstanding and

well though out.

Offensive: The UC mecha have access to some very respectable firepower, to the level that could

give the high end Sci-fi settings a run for their money. After all their back up weapon (60mm

vulcans) could shred most of the mainline mecha from Macross. It only gets (much) more destructive

from there.

Defensive: Gundam engineers are not shy with the armor plate and with the SUUPAH MEGA DEFENSE

JIBBERISH that are Minovsky Particles pretty much guarantees that Fire and Forget weapons are a

a waste of time.

Gundam AC:

See Gundam UC but throw any concept of ballance or practicality out the window.

Gundam SEED:

See Gundam AC only not quite so much.

Star Wars:

Engineering: Over all practical and rugged. The technology in Star Wars is designed to be effective

and endurant. Star Wars has full AI on tap, excellent high end energy manipulation, and some

of the best powerplant and drive technology in all of science fiction/fantasy. Their cannon fodder

vehicles can wipe the battlefield with the prestige units in other continuities. Remember the

Death Star was built in this continuity. It's pretty hard to top that.

Offensive: Star Wars has some truly massive firepower available to even the meekest starfighter.

A dedicated gun platform like the X-Wing or the B-Wing would take the best military vehicles most

continuities can offer without so much as a bead of sweat.

Defensive: Once agin Lucas's universe wins here pretty big as well. Shielded vehicles in the

"Galaxy far far away" have by necessity the level of defensive sheilding required to give

them a chance against vehicles sporting guns in the 300 million Gigawatt range. Since

most Sci-fi haven't had tens of millenia on a million million worlds to develope their tech

base they just don't rate comparitively

Star Trek:

Humans and their allies 3-4 centuries from now. yet surpringly only Star Wars technology and

Zentraedi capital ship tech can really give 24th century's UFP a run for it's money. But rest

assured when it's all said and done The Empire or the Zentaedi would come out on top.

The best and only advantage The Federation and contemporaries can field is that warp

drive hauls serious ass in real-space (sort of...) compared to jump drive technology used

in most other high tech continuities.

Oh and for the record no you cannot "Gate" A Variable fighter, they are all too wide.

Way too wide, even when folded up as narrow as possible.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Chindenathus

[transfan52]

It can be done, but you need some chewing gum and the Moons gravitational pull.

LMAO wow a whole new level of sarcasm.

[transfan52]

You ppl have way too much time on your hands. Go buy an xbox or other game console to become a geek in your own private home. Better yet, you guys need to find a GF. Better yet can you get one. Next thing you know someone will ask about a VF-1 vs Xwing or a veritech vs Xwing (yes I saw that idiotic post on Robotech.com.) or even better a Cylon raider vs the VF-1... Then again I got no room to talk to with my collection...

Its interesting to hear a comment like this coming from someone who has himself been wasting time replying along with us in this topic and of all places the macrossworldforums lol

[eugimon]

I think you completely missed the tongue in cheek nature of Godzilla's post.

[transfan52]

There are harder ones than that. a VF-1 vs a Gundam for example, I suspect the Gundam would win....

This question cant really be answered too well because the gundam universe is so broad and the technology level so steep that it would be hard to come to an accurate conclusion.

Could it take on any early U.C mecha from say 0079 to 0083? My guess is that it certainly can as even the VF-1 is much more manueverable and agile with better weapon systems than any early U.C mecha. If it were fighting any A.U. mecha even the later valks would have a hard time with say... Gundam wing or destiny gundam.

This is not applying physics like minovsky particles into the picture as they supposedly jam any type of lock on or radar capabilities.

[transfan52]

I think you completely missed the tongue in cheek nature of Godzilla's post.

Well it seems you completely missed the togue in cheek tone of my post... I was merely humoring the man, sheesh ever since I bashed you in the last thread all you want to do is take a stab at me calm down.

[F-ZeroOne]

LMAO wow a whole new level of sarcasm.

Er, that wasn't intended to be sarcastic - it was just a tribute to The Simpsons and Richard Dean Andersons pre-StarGate career. Honest!

[eugimon]

Well it seems you completely missed the togue in cheek tone of my post... I was merely humoring the man, sheesh ever since I bashed you in the last thread all you want to do is take a stab at me calm down.

oh, I thought you were just trying to bring sarcam to a whole new level.