Form of civilian government in the Macross Universe

[RedWolf]

Grace is the Bird Human...?

Nah Sharon Apple 2.0 .

[Gubaba]

Nah Sharon Apple 2.0 .

I suddenly got an image of Grace singing "Idol Talk"...and I liked it...

[dreamweaver13]

I'm going with President of both but being President of the NUNG means Squat these days. From all appearances the UN Government has been decentralized with each fleet having complete control over their own army, people and resources. All loosely under the NUNs banner.

yup, i agree that a single president would be almost "ceremonial" already, given the autonomy of each fleet. but i would like to think that there are still some decisions that have to be made by humanity as a whole, rather than by one fleet. specifically, the decision to declare war on another space-faring species.

[dreamweaver13]

Nah Sharon Apple 2.0 .

same thing. the bird human is sharon apple 2.0. who also just happens to be the evolved AI collective consciousness of the robot street-sweepers in all of macross. finally got tired of cleaning all those beer cans lying around. and the last straw was when ranka knocked a few of them over in ep1 while rushing to get to the concert hall. "Before, they had not learned to stop fighting. now they haven't learned to keep their streets clean. enough is enough!"

Edited July 14, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Morpheus]

same thing. the bird human is sharon apple 2.0. who also just happens to be the evolved AI collective consciousness of the robot street-sweepers in all of macross. finally got tired of cleaning all those beer cans lying around. and the last straw was when ranka knocked a few of them over in ep1 while rushing to get to the concert hall. "Before, they had not learned to stop fighting. now they haven't learned to keep their streets clean. enough is enough!"

Macross Matrix: Clash of the destroid

I want to see the cyborg population in Galaxy.

[Radd]

You know, we really don't have enough information to declare that all the current fleets act so independently. It's fine speculation, but I don't know that anyone should be taking it as fact. We know there are differences between the fleets, and that some fleets have, apparently, different local laws, but we don't really have any solid information beyond that.

It's entirely possible that Glass is the President of the entire New UNG, and that other fleets would be required to get his permission to break out the reaction weaponry.

Just food for thought.

[VF-25 Messiah]

Upon viewing the deculture edition of episode 1 again. When Sheryl is about to board frontier you hear Howard speaking to Cathy over comlink. He tells her if anything were to happen to Sheryl, it'd turn into an international problem. (Between frontier and galaxy most likely?) While not much to go on, the keyword international does imply that fleets could be viewed like 'nations', and that Glass is not "Head of state" of at least some other entity (Galaxy). Thoughts?

[RedWolf]

Upon viewing the deculture edition of episode 1 again. When Sheryl is about to board frontier you hear Howard speaking to Cathy over comlink. He tells her if anything were to happen to Sheryl, it'd turn into an international problem. (Between frontier and galaxy most likely?) While not much to go on, the keyword international does imply that fleets could be viewed like 'nations', and that Glass is not "Head of state" of at least some other entity (Galaxy). Thoughts?

Good pointing that out.

The only other case I can possibly see is Zola which is a planet that joined the UN.

Certainly it has its own autonomous government because Zolan's were not involved in the events of Space War 1. Also perhaps Chlore's Meltran fleet.

Perhaps the correct term for this city state system is a hedgemony.

While technically they are independent they still serve under the New UN banner.

For Reaction Weapons. Something tells it will take both authority of NUNS and the civilian goverment to launch them now.

They did say it was NUNS that recommended the use of Reaction Weapons.

In Macross 7 they said there was a treaty to handle reaction weapons not as first strike weapons.

They still had to get permission from UN Spacy Headquarter.

[VF-25 Messiah]

For Reaction Weapons. Something tells it will take both authority of NUNS and the civilian goverment to launch them now.

They did say it was NUNS that recommended the use of Reaction Weapons.

In Macross 7 they said there was a treaty to handle reaction weapons not as first strike weapons.

They still had to get permission from UN Spacy Headquarter.

My interpretation of that part was that there were NUN regulations regarding the use of Reaction Weapons. The NUNS general is requesting permission from President Glass to use Reaction weaponry in accordance to a special clause in these regulations. This is where frontier differs from Macross 7 in that Glass has the power to give that Permission. Max had to get that permission from a central headquarters, like you say. This suggests that Macross 7 was not the autonomous fleet that I'm sensing Frontier to be. I smell a reform happened somewhere between 46 and 59.

(While I'm not at all familiar with the VF-X game series, I seem to recall reading posts that events there could have led to such a reform... could someone with a little more knowledge confirm this?)

[RedWolf]

My interpretation of that part was that there were NUN regulations regarding the use of Reaction Weapons. The NUNS general is requesting permission from President Glass to use Reaction weaponry in accordance to a special clause in these regulations. This is where frontier differs from Macross 7 in that Glass has the power to give that Permission. Max had to get that permission from a central headquarters, like you say. This suggests that Macross 7 was not the autonomous fleet that I'm sensing Frontier to be. I smell a reform happened somewhere between 46 and 59.

(While I'm not at all familiar with the VF-X game series, I seem to recall reading posts that events there could have led to such a reform... could someone with a little more knowledge confirm this?)

From what I've gleemed is that there were Zentradi seditionist elements on colonies and were to be put back into the fold but it turns out the real enemy is a faction within UN Spacy that was preforming a coup to consolidate power.

[dreamweaver13]

Watching the subs for ep18, and i noticed something quite fascinating:

the first mention (at least from what i remember) of an actual Senate within a macross fleet. Before the entire fleet folded (according to the news report, its 7th official long-distance fold), the president had to get the approval of the senate. actually, not just an approval, but a bill actually had to be filed, heard and approved before a fleet-wide long distance fold is executed. In other words, there has to be a law approving/allowing the fold.

another fascinating insight into the government/politics of the macross universe.

quite the red tape, eh? quite a far cry from max and milla folding wherever they wanted. hehe.

[RedWolf]

Watching the subs for ep18, and i noticed something quite fascinating:

the first mention (at least from what i remember) of an actual Senate within a macross fleet. Before the entire fleet folded (according to the news report, its 7th official long-distance fold), the president had to get the approval of the senate. actually, not just an approval, but a bill actually had to be filed, heard and approved before a fleet-wide long distance fold is executed. In other words, there has to be a law approving/allowing the fold.

another fascinating insight into the government/politics of the macross universe.

quite the red tape, eh? quite a far cry from max and milla folding wherever they wanted. hehe.

While the Compedium states that Glass is president of NUNG. I think he is only the Frontier's president.

In the Macross 7 Plus clip Millia calls herself Millia the President.

It could be that fleets each have different political organization.

Macross 7's City 7 had a space of 50 square km area, holding an excess of a million people. Also six other residential vessels not counting the cemetery ship Heaven in Macross 7 Trash.

Macross Frontier's Island 1 has 150 square km area, a capacity of 5 million. Not mention numerous islands that can contain a sea and land islands. With rest of the population of the islands the total population of Frontier is 10 million.

[dreamweaver13]

While the Compedium states that Glass is president of NUNG. I think he is only the Frontier's president.

In the Macross 7 Plus clip Millia calls herself Millia the President.

It could be that fleets each have different political organization.

Macross 7's City 7 had a space of 50 square km area, holding an excess of a million people. Also six other residential vessels not counting the cemetery ship Heaven in Macross 7 Trash.

Macross Frontier's Island 1 has 150 square km area, a capacity of 5 million. Not mention numerous islands that can contain a sea and land islands. With rest of the population of the islands the total population of Frontier is 10 million.

I've always espoused that "Howard Glass as the president of the entire NUNG" is by far the more interesting concept. but for now, either one works for me.

as for the senate, i wonder if it's an in-frontier senate, or a senate dispersed among all the macross fleets and planets. Or both?

Edited August 12, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[RedWolf]

I've always espoused that "Howard Glass as the president of the entire NUNS" is by far the more interesting concept. but for now, either one works for me.

as for the senate, i wonder if it's an in-frontier senate, or a senate dispersed among all the macross fleets and planets. Or both?

That's NUNG not NUNS. Even back at the original Macross the government formed by Global and Vrlithwai called itself New UN.

It is only UN Spacy that has changed it's name to New UN Spacy. Suggesting there are reforms post 2051 after William Garland's coup attempt of Earth.

By that time Macross Frontier has already left Earth as it launched in 2047.

The only way I see Glass as the president of the NUNG if NUNG was similarly structured as the European Council of the EU.

It is merely Frontier's turn for the presidency.

[dreamweaver13]

That's NUNG not NUNS.

oops. fixed, thanks.