Macross Frontier Episode 12 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Keith]

Why not? Old or not, the Macross Canon is still a respectable weapon and just having the Macross in the fleet would be a huge morale booster.

It also carries the burdon of explain to the civillians why its there, likely a secret best worth keeping to involved parties (i.e. shifty Cathy's boyfriend dude).

[Keith]

You forget the fact that what he is saying is achems razor. If you saw something that looked just like the macross you would instantly assume Macross. Plus the mystery mech you are talking about looks very similar to the Vajra. Are you telling me there is another set of creatures that look so similar? If that is the case then the Macross could have a twin. So next episode will prove us that yes it is the Macross or no SK screwed with our minds again and there was a secret ship we never knew about.

It actually looks very little like a Vajra to me, it looks a hell of a lot more like the Pheyos or Gabll's fighter.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Keith

[Zinjo]

Actually, Keith let's move this to the dedicated thread, my response will be there ...

WTF-1 Thread

Edited June 29, 2008 by Zinjo

[ComicKaze]

Two easy answers. It was involved in a big firefight, or it had a barrier explosion yet again.

You forget the most logical answer. Moving it across the galaxy and dropping it onto another planet (it probably defolded in orbit and burned through the atmosphere) probably did some wear and tear.

[ComicKaze]

Watch the ending again, Ranka did see the ship, she flashed on it right after the crash, which is why she walked over to take a look.

Actually, Ranka saw it flash across her personal screen for no reason whatsoever at an angle that makes little sense for the VF-25's cameras to capture. Whatever force caused them to crash by controlling the VF-25's systems also flashed that image there.

[Chief Guld Goa Bowman]

Yup, there's a huge NUNS letter on the landing pad where Ranka is performing her 'debut'

This would explain the 33rd Naval/Marine Fleet having the lastest version of the Queadluun-Rea like the SMS Pixie Squadron.

[Twoducks]

Wow, what an ending!!

[darkrealmbahamut]

no gifs for u

haha... nah.. the whole sequence will be abit too long and filesize will be huge. maybe i'd try later but now... euro 2008 finals!!!!

How come I get no cookie I be good! But if it is too long that is cool I imagine next week will have some definate gif worthy moments.

[darkrealmbahamut]

It actually looks very little like a Vajra to me, it looks a hell of a lot more like the Pheyos or Gabll's fighter.

True but notice the distinctly different looks between the small white Vajra and the red. Plus there were those concept sketchs posted forever ago it seems maybe this is a final version of one of those.

[Strumvogel]

It'd be interesting to see what the rating numbers are like for this and the next episode is like due to this huge plot twist and the ensuing speculation to the reason behind it that is probably coming with the next episode.

Especially since this literally reaches down to the very heart of Macross, the SDF-1.

There also seems to be a sweet looking aerial battle too, so that's an added bonus.

[Master Dex]

i felt that Ranka Attack was a much more powerful scene

Ranka attack is good, but I was looking for mecha goodness. However that pic is over 300 kb and the avatar settings won't accept something larger than 200 kb.. so it is too big I guess. Unless you can shorten it, I didn't really want the actual stabbing of Temjin anyway, I was more or less just looking for the VF-25F pulling the knife and charging (I'll still save the whole thing though so I have it, it is cool). Thanks either way Shun.

EDIT: Nvm that Shun I forgot I can link to it if I upload it somewhere else so I did that. Thanks again.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Master Dex

[jenius]

Maybe I'm just exhausted... but I thought this episode pretty much sucked. I was shocked to see that I'm like the seventh person to give it a negative review. Sure, the music in the series is still great but the plot of this episode was kinda painful... like... really painful. Even if I forgive the growing Lost-style of just heaping more questions on top of questions and going seemingly out of its way to avoid giving answers ('cause honestly, sometimes that's fun, as evidenced by Lost's ratings) this episode just left me scratching my head and I'm not even talking about that WTF-1 at the end. Is Sheryl still considered important by anyone? How does sending one fighter to escort her while at war with an enemy of unknown capabilities (Varja) to a base with a very uneasy population of well-armed Zents make sense? What are the odds that at some backwood planet there'd be three clones of the three most major Macross Zentraedi all hanging out? What exactly was Alto going to do when he got into his VF-25 that would have been of any consequences? There were two Zentraedi factions in a standoff with reflex weaponry and Alto was going to do something about that in his lone VF-25? Do the new Q-Raus suck that bad where Alto could have super roboted them all? I also have to assume that the VF-25 only costs a few hundred dollars to make if Michel can just hop in his and do whatever he wants without reporting to any sort of command structure. Sure is cool that Luca just happened to get a magic fold device in this episode also. Some spots just felt really unnatural too. Alto hurriedly flies to the concert then switches to GERWALK and drifts away in reverse... it just seems odd. Then the Qamzin-like guy hops up and duels with him and that whole bit feels disjointed from everything else and once again Alto pulls his silly blade. I can kind of stomach the blade with the Vajra now because it seems capable of piercing their armor for some reason but stabbing a Q-Rau to death? Odd. Mac F continues to be really strong with the characters and how they interact and the slow, tedious method in which attractions transform into love so even though I thought this episode was overall pretty terrible by MacF's own standards it was still a step above a lot of other rubbish out there.

[wolfx]

Maybe I'm just exhausted... but I thought this episode pretty much sucked. I was shocked to see that I'm like the seventh person to give it a negative review. Sure, the music in the series is still great but the plot of this episode was kinda painful... like... really painful. Even if I forgive the growing Lost-style of just heaping more questions on top of questions and going seemingly out of its way to avoid giving answers ('cause honestly, sometimes that's fun, as evidenced by Lost's ratings) this episode just left me scratching my head and I'm not even talking about that WTF-1 at the end. Is Sheryl still considered important by anyone? How does sending one fighter to escort her while at war with an enemy of unknown capabilities (Varja) to a base with a very uneasy population of well-armed Zents make sense? What are the odds that at some backwood planet there'd be three clones of the three most major Macross Zentraedi all hanging out? What exactly was Alto going to do when he got into his VF-25 that would have been of any consequences? There were two Zentraedi factions in a standoff with reflex weaponry and Alto was going to do something about that in his lone VF-25? Do the new Q-Raus suck that bad where Alto could have super roboted them all? I also have to assume that the VF-25 only costs a few hundred dollars to make if Michel can just hop in his and do whatever he wants without reporting to any sort of command structure. Sure is cool that Luca just happened to get a magic fold device in this episode also. Some spots just felt really unnatural too. Alto hurriedly flies to the concert then switches to GERWALK and drifts away in reverse... it just seems odd. Then the Qamzin-like guy hops up and duels with him and that whole bit feels disjointed from everything else and once again Alto pulls his silly blade. I can kind of stomach the blade with the Vajra now because it seems capable of piercing their armor for some reason but stabbing a Q-Rau to death? Odd. Mac F continues to be really strong with the characters and how they interact and the slow, tedious method in which attractions transform into love so even though I thought this episode was overall pretty terrible by MacF's own standards it was still a step above a lot of other rubbish out there.

Personally I don't think anyone should watch Macross with an analytical mind as if you're watching Death Note or Code Geass (urgh..season 2 is already suspending my belief). Its just not the series to do that. For me since SDFM, quite alot of things about the story including character development have to be taken with abit of suspension of belief. Macross in every sense is a soap-opera in space. You don't question how the characters fall in love in such circumstances. You don't question why the enemy does some illogical things. You don't question where Kamjin gets his giant turkey drum stick.

That said, I agree with your points. But at the same time, it doesn't bother me (as much as the animation and art quality) since Macross doesn't take itself too seriously and neither should we.

[Gubaba]

Ranka attack is good, but I was looking for mecha goodness. However that pic is over 300 kb and the avatar settings won't accept something larger than 200 kb.. so it is too big I guess. Unless you can shorten it, I didn't really want the actual stabbing of Temjin anyway, I was more or less just looking for the VF-25F pulling the knife and charging (I'll still save the whole thing though so I have it, it is cool). Thanks either way Shun.

*PSST* Avatars automatically resize when you upload them...

[MisaForever]

Don't ever judge a series by one episode. You will fail and won't grasp the actual story and what's going on if you do that.

[VF5SS]

Zents? Reflex? Who are you? Tim Eldred?

[darkrealmbahamut]

Maybe I'm just exhausted... but I thought this episode pretty much sucked. I was shocked to see that I'm like the seventh person to give it a negative review. Sure, the music in the series is still great but the plot of this episode was kinda painful... like... really painful. Even if I forgive the growing Lost-style of just heaping more questions on top of questions and going seemingly out of its way to avoid giving answers ('cause honestly, sometimes that's fun, as evidenced by Lost's ratings) this episode just left me scratching my head and I'm not even talking about that WTF-1 at the end. Is Sheryl still considered important by anyone? How does sending one fighter to escort her while at war with an enemy of unknown capabilities (Varja) to a base with a very uneasy population of well-armed Zents make sense? What are the odds that at some backwood planet there'd be three clones of the three most major Macross Zentraedi all hanging out? What exactly was Alto going to do when he got into his VF-25 that would have been of any consequences? There were two Zentraedi factions in a standoff with reflex weaponry and Alto was going to do something about that in his lone VF-25? Do the new Q-Raus suck that bad where Alto could have super roboted them all? I also have to assume that the VF-25 only costs a few hundred dollars to make if Michel can just hop in his and do whatever he wants without reporting to any sort of command structure. Sure is cool that Luca just happened to get a magic fold device in this episode also. Some spots just felt really unnatural too. Alto hurriedly flies to the concert then switches to GERWALK and drifts away in reverse... it just seems odd. Then the Qamzin-like guy hops up and duels with him and that whole bit feels disjointed from everything else and once again Alto pulls his silly blade. I can kind of stomach the blade with the Vajra now because it seems capable of piercing their armor for some reason but stabbing a Q-Rau to death? Odd. Mac F continues to be really strong with the characters and how they interact and the slow, tedious method in which attractions transform into love so even though I thought this episode was overall pretty terrible by MacF's own standards it was still a step above a lot of other rubbish out there.

It is really just like an action movie at points we assume people check in with command. I am actually suprised Ozama and the others didn't think of the idea to put the new boosters on a set of fighters in the first place. Sure there are some stretchs but it is anime don't they all have some stretchs?

[Major Focker]

Personally I don't think anyone should watch Macross with an analytical mind as if you're watching Death Note or Code Geass (urgh..season 2 is already suspending my belief). Its just not the series to do that. For me since SDFM, quite alot of things about the story including character development have to be taken with abit of suspension of belief. Macross in every sense is a soap-opera in space. You don't question how the characters fall in love in such circumstances. You don't question why the enemy does some illogical things. You don't question where Kamjin gets his giant turkey drum stick.

That said, I agree with your points. But at the same time, it doesn't bother me (as much as the animation and art quality) since Macross doesn't take itself too seriously and neither should we.

i agree with the points as well, but it doesn't bother me as much now after i checked my realism radar at the door back in ep7 when the quarter pulled those funky moves even ranted about it in the technology thread among other seemingly impractical design choices tech-wise. there was a good discussion around it, and had to agree with the good folks there that at least they were plausible in the context of the macross universe, and ultimately it was damn cool! got it out of my system and i feel so much better now

this is not to say i'll swallow everything MF cooks up, but at least for this episode, the things you pointed out, to which i agree with you can be perceived as illogical or unlikely, are at least not plot holes. i'd even say the writers took time to explain some of them eg. ozma regretting sending only one fighter despite the bad vibes he felt, luca scene providing the basis of how michel and ranka can get there in time <regardless of how serendipitous or contrived the timing is>, temjin trash talking alto hence meriting a more vicious than usual dispatch...

having said that, there is a potential plot blackhole in this episode which they better explain damn well in the next episode. yeah, WTF-1. but otherwise, i thought the writers did a tidy enough job plot-wise, albeit, depending on your realism dosage, results may vary

[Graham]

I am actually suprised Ozama and the others didn't think of the idea to put the new boosters on a set of fighters in the first place. Sure there are some stretchs but it is anime don't they all have some stretchs?

It's likely that no one at SMS including Ozma even new about the new fold boosters.

The only reason that Luca knew about them and was able to get them is because LAI is his families buisiness.

Graham

[Vinnie]

I checked my realism at the door when a Private Military Contractor decided it'd make good sense to hire high schoolers with no significant flight time, rather than try to recruit from the massive pool of potential applicants across the frontier fleet with thousands of flight hours. If you can get past that, you should have no trouble with anything else in Frontier.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Vinnie

[cyde01]

i think the new fold booster suddenly appearing is not some kind of gimick, but a significant plot point. somehow the technology for the new fold booster is related to the vajra, which means it is probably related to all the shady behind the scenes dealing going on with leon, grace, bilrer and who knows what else. i think grace or whoever is behind the scenes pulling the strings specifically created this situation to lure LAI to bring out their new top secret fold booster. perhaps they even knew about the sleeping vajra on the planet and planned for ranka to go there and wake up the thing.

[Major Focker]

hey! i can see my new avatar now too bad ackem beat me to the animated version

misaF, just noticed the way your avatar animation was cut, it looks like misa was throwing a left and right combo rather than a just single slap. what's next? kk slapping michel's battroid?

[VF5SS]

I checked my realism at the door when a Private Military Contractor decided it'd make good sense to hire high schoolers with no significant flight time, rather than try to recruit from the massive pool of potential applicants across the frontier fleet with thousands of flight hours. If you can get past that, you should have no trouble with anything else in Frontier.

I suppose it's no worse than a show where a high school aged amateur pilot is given no less than three shiny new transforming robot jets (painted in the same red and white colors) over the course of his career.

[jenius]

Zents? Reflex? Who are you? Tim Eldred?

I don't catch the reference? Is Tim Eldred like an HG guy or something? I thought Zents was a neutral term but yes, my snafu on the "reaction" vs "reflex" weaponry bit.

[Elektrix]

What exactly was Alto going to do when he got into his VF-25 that would have been of any consequences? There were two Zentraedi factions in a standoff with reflex weaponry and Alto was going to do something about that in his lone VF-25? Do the new Q-Raus suck that bad where Alto could have super roboted them all?

I'm not sure if you're criticizing Alto himself here or the internal story logic. If your criticism is that Alto was acting rashly, and couldn't have actually accomplished something, fair enough - but is it in his character to just sit there and not try and do something, even if the odds are dramatically against him?

And as it is, Alto seemed to have a pretty good sense of what was going on there; he could see that many of the Zentraedi were already practically hypnotized by Ranka, and he also could have figured out that he might only have to worry about the leader at that point.

And of course, it's not like it would have been "Alto vs. everybody" even in the worst case scenario; the other Zentraedi would have also still probably been able to continue fighting if necessary.

But again, I'm not sure what the criticism is of this particular story element; it seems to fit into Alto's character that he would try and do something regardless, and as the story was set up, he seemed to have a fair shot of accomplishing something anyway - which, of course, he did, since he did only ultimately have to fight one Zentraedi, not the whole group. I mean, you're asking a question as if it's hypothetical, but we saw exactly what he was going to do and what he did in the episode; it's not like it's some mystery.

I'm thinking perhaps the question is, what was Alto planning on doing escaping before Ranka showed him (which he of course wouldn't have counted on); but again, this goes back to what we know about Alto's character. He wasn't going to just sit there and wait to be killed as a hostage, or let Sheryl or anyone else be killed; what was he going to do? Who knows? But I've seen plenty of military POW-type movies where someone escapes and tries to accomplish something rather than wait for the inevitable; I don't think the fact that Alto might not have been able to actually accomplish anything is necessarily a justification to criticize his choices, or the internal story logic, since it seems pretty consistent to me.

And again though, I'd go back to my previous point in that case; even if Ranka hadn't shown up, it wouldn't have been Alto by himself; he would have still been able to fight alongside one side. Given some of the other incredible things we've seen Macross ace pilots do, I don't find it that questionable. And hell, even within the logic of Macross F, we've seen him go solo against a Vajra, seen him go solo again to rescue Luca, etc.

Frankly, even if Ranka hadn't shown up to take care of most of the Zentraedi, I wouldn't have put anything past Alto.

-Elektrix

Edited June 30, 2008 by Elektrix

[Master Dex]

*PSST* Avatars automatically resize when you upload them...

*PSST*, it isn't the size of the pic, it is the file size that is too big... and it actually tells me I can't upload it because it is too big.

[dreamweaver13]

hey! i can see my new avatar now too bad ackem beat me to the animated version

misaF, just noticed the way your avatar animation was cut, it looks like misa was throwing a left and right combo rather than a just single slap. what's next? kk slapping michel's battroid?

Wh-hat?? so that was the plan all along? lead us to believe that Misa is back in misaforever's heart, but it was actually just a prelude to the klanklan slap scene? so ultimately it would still be klanklan, and misa would still be forgotten!

what a ploy! a sly and almost perfect plan! but foiled by Major Focker! good catch sir!

[Master Dex]

Wh-hat?? so that was the plan all along? lead us to believe that Misa is back in misaforever's heart, but it was actually just a prelude to the klanklan slap scene? so ultimately it would still be klanklan, and misa would still be forgotten!

what a ploy! a sly and almost perfect plan! but foiled by Major Focker! good catch sir!

The only problem being that other people have already used the Klan slappage of the VF-25G.

[Gubaba]

*PSST*, it isn't the size of the pic, it is the file size that is too big... and it actually tells me I can't upload it because it is too big.

*PSST* I didn't realize...sorry.

[Vinnie]

I suppose it's no worse than a show where a high school aged amateur pilot is given no less than three shiny new transforming robot jets (painted in the same red and white colors) over the course of his career.

There was at least plausible explaination for that. They needed every pilot they could get after the Macross folded, and some flight time was way better than no flight time. I'm not seeing the same necessity in a relatively peaceful fleet of millions, where there must be some veteran/experienced/ace pilots among the ranks of active military.

I'm just saying most anime has some reason (plausible or not) why the teenagers have to pilot the mecha. Frontier is just like: "What? That's what teenagers do in a mecha genre show. You need a better reason?"

[Master Dex]

*PSST* I didn't realize...sorry.

*PSST* It's cool, but still doesn't help my situation much.

EDIT: Ah, I decided to make it easier on myself. I forgot you can just link to an avatar instead of uploading (which I was more used to). So I uploaded it to something I can link to, problem solved.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Master Dex

[darkrealmbahamut]

It's likely that no one at SMS including Ozma even new about the new fold boosters.

The only reason that Luca knew about them and was able to get them is because LAI is his families buisiness.

Graham

That's right I forgot about. They seem to screen their people though I would think that asset would be one of the reasons aside from Luca's amazing tech that could be tapped into. Hmm well they will definitely notice when they see Mikhail is missing since he was leaving the fold booster in orbit for Alto to use. Then again with the end it seems like no one is going to make it back in time for Ranka's first concert.

Edited June 30, 2008 by darkrealmbahamut

[Major Focker]

I checked my realism at the door when a Private Military Contractor decided it'd make good sense to hire high schoolers with no significant flight time, rather than try to recruit from the massive pool of potential applicants across the frontier fleet with thousands of flight hours. If you can get past that, you should have no trouble with anything else in Frontier.

lol! you're right! i'm probably still more of a kid than i acknowledge (c'mon, let's see a show of hands here), letting something like that slip past

but we are talking about an anime here where grown men, soldiers at that, are reduced to dancing in their mecha and fanboy nosebleeds from watching a song and dance number! speaking of which, i seem to recall someone posting a link to the dance steps instruction. thinking of teaching that to my little niece

btw, i tried that horns gesture of ranka on the guard dog at the lobby and it rolled over! hah!

[azrael]

I checked my realism at the door when a Private Military Contractor decided it'd make good sense to hire high schoolers with no significant flight time, rather than try to recruit from the massive pool of potential applicants across the frontier fleet with thousands of flight hours. If you can get past that, you should have no trouble with anything else in Frontier.

The instant we started talking about Macross, I checked my sense of realism at the door...Hell, anytime I watch anything that's not a documentary, science or nature show or reality TV (although, there are times...), my sense of disbelief (or belief) takes a coffee break.

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?show...st&p=598984

[GogDog]

I suppose it's no worse than a show where a high school aged amateur pilot is given no less than three shiny new transforming robot jets (painted in the same red and white colors) over the course of his career.

Well, the fact that he almost literally grew up in a plane, and had won flight competitions as a minor does make a significant difference.