Macross Frontier Episode 12 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Duke Togo]

i dont think vf-27 had the new fold booster technology. it probably was using the old fold technology for its internal booster thats why it had to load up the new fold booster this episode.

Indeed.

[Mandy]

Just watched the episode. Aside from all the sweet Ranka goodness...yeah I am SO pumped about the next episode. SDF-1 man!

[Vinnie]

I did a little pic, inspired by some Planet of the Apes movie comments a while back in this thread. Please excuse the crudity.

Alto has a Charlton Heston moment:

I ROFLed

[MisaForever]

VF = Variable Fighter OR Valkyrie Fighter. THEY ARE ALL VALKS!

[Elektrix]

Man, have consideration for those who have not seen Dr Who yet. (I know its been more than 12 hours, but we're not talking about Macross.) I think the cliffhanger for Frontier was actually better than the Who one as there was ABSOLUTELY NO WAY anybody could have seen that coming.

Taksraven

Yeah, the one thing about the Who cliffhanger is that unless they have managed to somehow keep one of the biggest secrets around, the general assumption is that there will be some sort of trick or something so that it resolves itself without any long-term changes (the series and the episode have plenty of things they can use to resolve it). But as cliffhangers go, it's still pretty huge.

The Macross F cliffhanger is arguably bigger (that is, we can assume it isn't going to have a copout resolution like "It's a mirage" or something).

Either way, I'm just glad both series air next week; I couldn't take these two cliffhangers if I had to wait months for the resolution (I'm looking at you BSG).

[Mr March]

I did a little pic, inspired by some Planet of the Apes movie comments a while back in this thread. Please excuse the crudity.

Alto has a Charlton Heston moment:

Great pic Randalt

[Batou]

My $0.02 ...

I think it's just a little too convenient for that eyeball thingie to have gone off just prior to Alto's flight controls going dead and subsequent emergency landing. They landed within walking distance of what appears to be the ruins of the SDF-1 where - as far as we know, at least - it's tens of thousands of light years from where they remember seeing it parked (Dude! Where's my Macross? ).

Also, since it was so close to their crash site, someone explain how they didn't see something that big when coming in? Even if Alto was struggling with the controls to try and land it, he how could you miss that? (I thought the valks were all fly-by-light ... the electronics go, I don't think it would matter at all how hard he pulled on the stick - it's going down like a rock).

Wild speculation: The eyeball thingie is somehow related to the protoculture (that's right, not Vajra), and the WTF-1 was obviously created for the benefit of Alto and Ranka. It wants to communicate with them, either directly or indirectly, and this would certainly get their attention.

It has to be a fake, an illusion of some sort, or a fabrication created by some sort of higher intelligence. Maybe it's the birdman's cousin Larry. Perhaps a "booby trap" left behind by the Protoculture should any of its progeny come calling, or at least the more "desirable" progeny: Surely the Zentradi stationed on this planet would have performed recon sweeps and scanned the planet from orbit at some point. Britai could detect the Macross parked on South Ataria Island from nearly past the moon's orbit, so I have some difficulty believing that they'd somehow miss a replica of the Macross sitting out in the open like that.

Good episode. Very good.

( Zentran! Zentran! Zentran! )

[Trazial]

Considering that there were several other ships in the cosntitution class that looked a lot like it, your analogy doesn't work at all. Things are pretty firm here:

-There was only "one" ship of this design built/completed

-They used the exact same ship, not a replica, in the filming of DYRL

-there's an 8 year gap between the end of VFX-2 & the beginning of Frontier, if something so major as to whipe away the U.N. Spacy happened, then moving the Macross is very likely. Hell, its even shown going up against some mystery mecha in the next ep preview.

It was also proven the Macross is still operable in M+. If this is the original Macross, the decay on it does not coincide with what was last seen in M+. The Macross on Earth is a monument and is always shown in prestine condition. Even after the rebuild according to Macross 2012. If this is the original, it will be very interesting to see how this is explained and where this story is going.

[Trazial]

Also, the Macross is a very important part of the UN Spacy. It's presence is symbolic, a memory of the ship that brought together both races in the first interstellar war. If it were to disappear, I wouldn't be surprised if the governments were to fall apart.

TO quote BSG - "It has happened before, and it will happen again"

(sorry if i got it wrong)

[darkrealmbahamut]

I think it's just a little too convenient for that eyeball thingie to have gone off just prior to Alto's flight controls going dead and subsequent emergency landing. They landed within walking distance of what appears to be the ruins of the SDF-1 where - as far as we know, at least - it's tens of thousands of light years from where they remember seeing it parked (Dude! Where's my Macross? ).

I agree with you how do you not notice a ship that most likely has been in every text book and war documntary after the the first Interstellar War?

[Master Dex]

Also, since it was so close to their crash site, someone explain how they didn't see something that big when coming in? Even if Alto was struggling with the controls to try and land it, he how could you miss that? (I thought the valks were all fly-by-light ... the electronics go, I don't think it would matter at all how hard he pulled on the stick - it's going down like a rock).

I can't prove this but I too thought the Valks used fly-by-wire systems so maybe he had an emergency kill switch to switch to some sort of manual control for getting down. However I have my doubts even of that, it seems unlikely you could manually control such an aircraft like that. I think Alto got lucky with his landing that the air guided him down gently.

[Gubaba]

lol... this is embarrassing

first, let me say i'm far from being fluent in (any) languages esp Japanese. but in this case, i'm 100% sure that the exact words used are not indicative of a SPECIFIC ship... first generation can mean the SDF-1 itself and it can mean a whole bunch of ships from the same class. (gosh this is getting repetitive? )

second, i believe it was cyde01 who's the first to mention and explained it in this very thread. others have mentioned it too, including a subber (creamyhorror: link).

everyone just calm down... and wait for next ep...

EDIT:

Sorry, didn't mean to drag you into this...I just thought it was funny that someone posted "Many of our Japanese speakers have noticed that it's ambiguous." and then said, "It was mentioned by Shun."

I think it this case, it comes down not to translation issues, but to what you think a first generation Macross ship is...I tend to think that means the SDF-1, and nothing else. Others seem to think that the Megaroad-01 is First Generation.

[Gubaba]

Are we agreed that Ranka's pet is some sort of baby Vajra?

Taksraven

Now THAT, I'm not as sure about...but I think probably you're right.

[Master Dex]

Sorry, didn't mean to drag you into this...I just thought it was funny that someone posted "Many of our Japanese speakers have noticed that it's ambiguous." and then said, "It was mentioned by Shun."

I think it this case, it comes down not to translation issues, but to what you think a first generation Macross ship is...I tend to think that means the SDF-1, and nothing else. Others seem to think that the Megaroad-01 is First Generation.

I wasn't thinking of the Megaroad ships as other first gen. When I heard first gen I though of other Macross class ships, that is battle cruisers like SDF-1 and not Megaroad, that may or may not have existed whether we knew about them or not. That is all I was saying. I think it still may be more likely to be the original Macross, but who knows.

[Raptor One]

Wild speculation: The eyeball thingie is somehow related to the protoculture (that's right, not Vajra), and the WTF-1 was obviously created for the benefit of Alto and Ranka. It wants to communicate with them, either directly or indirectly, and this would certainly get their attention.

It has to be a fake, an illusion of some sort, or a fabrication created by some sort of higher intelligence. Maybe it's the birdman's cousin Larry. Perhaps a "booby trap" left behind by the Protoculture should any of its progeny come calling, or at least the more "desirable" progeny: Surely the Zentradi stationed on this planet would have performed recon sweeps and scanned the planet from orbit at some point. Britai could detect the Macross parked on South Ataria Island from nearly past the moon's orbit, so I have some difficulty believing that they'd somehow miss a replica of the Macross sitting out in the open like that.

Good episode. Very good.

( Zentran! Zentran! Zentran! )

I approve of this theory. An illusion sounds plausible.

[Shun]

It was also proven the Macross is still operable in M+. If this is the original Macross, the decay on it does not coincide with what was last seen in M+. The Macross on Earth is a monument and is always shown in prestine condition. Even after the rebuild according to Macross 2012. If this is the original, it will be very interesting to see how this is explained and where this story is going.

maybe it was damaged in battle?

[Gubaba]

I wasn't thinking of the Megaroad ships as other first gen. When I heard first gen I though of other Macross class ships, that is battle cruisers like SDF-1 and not Megaroad, that may or may not have existed whether we knew about them or not. That is all I was saying. I think it still may be more likely to be the original Macross, but who knows.

If they say there were others besides the Macross in 2009-10, then Frontier will drop A LOT in my esteem...VF-0? Fine, I can deal with it. The Supervision Army was created by the Protodeviln? All right...

But there were other Macross class ships during Space War I? No, I refuse to believe it.

And with that, I will drop the subject and patiently wait until next week.

[Master Dex]

3 animated gifs of Ranka causing Zents to gush out and no one has made that gif of the VF-25F pulling it's knife and charging at Temjin yet... Well hopefully my restating of that will help a bit.

[Master Dex]

If they say there were others besides the Macross in 2009-10, then Frontier will drop A LOT in my esteem...VF-0? Fine, I can deal with it. The Supervision Army was created by the Protodeviln? All right...

But there were other Macross class ships during Space War I? No, I refuse to believe it.

And with that, I will drop the subject and patiently wait until next week.

Actually I didn't mean during SW1, that would be just stupid.. why wouldn't they have helped in the war? No I meant after SW1, or even after Mac+.

[darkrealmbahamut]

3 animated gifs of Ranka causing Zents to gush out and no one has made that gif of the VF-25F pulling it's knife and charging at Temjin yet... Well hopefully my restating of that will help a bit.

I am waiting for that sweet back flip into off loading several rounds into Temjin. That was a pretty sweet moment along with the knife.

[darkrealmbahamut]

Sorry, didn't mean to drag you into this...I just thought it was funny that someone posted "Many of our Japanese speakers have noticed that it's ambiguous." and then said, "It was mentioned by Shun."

I think it this case, it comes down not to translation issues, but to what you think a first generation Macross ship is...I tend to think that means the SDF-1, and nothing else. Others seem to think that the Megaroad-01 is First Generation.

I didn't mean to place it all on Shun he was one of the first that I could think of. Sorry Shun didn't mean to get you put in the cross hairs.

[Gubaba]

I didn't mean to place it all on Shun he was one of the first that I could think of. Sorry Shun didn't mean to get you put in the cross hairs.

My scope is pretty shaky anyway. And the safety's always on.

If I caused any offense, I'm sorry. It wasn't my intention.

[stray]

maybe it was damaged in battle?

dibs on the nosebleed? has anyone called it yet? I was going to make one but I can't find good apps for it.

[Gubaba]

Actually I didn't mean during SW1, that would be just stupid.. why wouldn't they have helped in the war? No I meant after SW1, or even after Mac+.

Then I guess I don't understand what "First Generation" means...

And now I'll REALLY shut up about it. Promise.

[Shun]

3 animated gifs of Ranka causing Zents to gush out and no one has made that gif of the VF-25F pulling it's knife and charging at Temjin yet... Well hopefully my restating of that will help a bit.

i felt that Ranka Attack was a much more powerful scene

I didn't mean to place it all on Shun he was one of the first that I could think of. Sorry Shun didn't mean to get you put in the cross hairs.

no gifs for u

haha... nah.. the whole sequence will be abit too long and filesize will be huge. maybe i'd try later but now... euro 2008 finals!!!!

dibs on the nosebleed? has anyone called it yet? I was going to make one but I can't find good apps for it.

sure, was making em for fun and for my emoticons

Edited June 29, 2008 by Shun

[junior]

I think it's just a little too convenient for that eyeball thingie to have gone off just prior to Alto's flight controls going dead and subsequent emergency landing. They landed within walking distance of what appears to be the ruins of the SDF-1 where - as far as we know, at least - it's tens of thousands of light years from where they remember seeing it parked (Dude! Where's my Macross? ).

Also, since it was so close to their crash site, someone explain how they didn't see something that big when coming in? Even if Alto was struggling with the controls to try and land it, he how could you miss that? (I thought the valks were all fly-by-light ... the electronics go, I don't think it would matter at all how hard he pulled on the stick - it's going down like a rock).

Since it's inactive and sitting in a very deep hole in very rough terrain (i.e. all of the weird rock formations around its resting site), it's possible that even scans of the area might have missed the wreckage. The composition of the rocks in the area, coupled with the unusual shapes that they have, might have acted to interfere with any scans of the area that might have revealed the wreck.

Or it's possible that the entire thing is in their heads. Something happens in Ranka's mind which causes her to go looking in that direction, and we don't know exactly what it was (I referred to it as a call earlier). It's possible that the entire thing is an illusion, although based on the previews of next episode (which show an intact SDF-class ship) I don't think that's likely.

[stray]

but now... euro 2008 finals!!!!

¡¡¡Viva Espana!!!

[Zinjo]

Considering that there were several other ships in the cosntitution class that looked a lot like it, your analogy doesn't work at all. Things are pretty firm here:

-There was only "one" ship of this design built/completed

-They used the exact same ship, not a replica, in the filming of DYRL

-there's an 8 year gap between the end of VFX-2 & the beginning of Frontier, if something so major as to whipe away the U.N. Spacy happened, then moving the Macross is very likely. Hell, its even shown going up against some mystery mecha in the next ep preview.

I'm as big a Macross fan as anyone, but come on, there's no reason for denial here, that ship in the next episode is clearly the freakin' Macross.

Ahhh, Keith, it's been a while since we last cross swords...

The SDF-1 was a "restoration" of the ASS-1. The Megalord was an SDF built from scratch.

You will note that the refit of the SDF-1 took many design elements incorporated into the SDF-2.

I find it amusing that so many would support the idea that the "actual" Macross would be moved light years away from Earth for some fantastic reason as opposed to the far more logical idea that a predecessor class of SDF battleships would predate the NMCs.

If the SDFs were "attached" to future Megaroad colony ships similarly to the NMCs, then that would make the New Macross Class colony ships less of a new idea (in universe) than we the fans have come to believe since Mac 7.

I assert again, that it makes little sense for the UNG to figure out they need Macross Carriers to accompany colony fleets 20 years after the emigration program began. Kawamori may delve into the fantasic at times, but he's always been a logical story writer.

I realize that such an idea is knocking over some people's altars, but SK has done that before and I expect will do so again in future.

It is fan assumptions that the actual SDF-1 was used in DYRL movie (in universe) as Mac F established that it could have been a post production CG image overlaying a regular carrier in the fleet. In the chronology no mention is made of it actually being used in the film (any documented support of its actual use would be welcomed).

I'm as big a Macross fan as anyone, but come on, there's no reason for denial here, that ship in the next episode is clearly the freakin' Macross.

I suggest the only real denial here is those who refuse to accept the possiblity that the ship found is NOT the SDF-1 Macross... Making conclusive statements, doesn't close the window of doubt, that only shows certain individuals have closed their minds to the possibility (which is fine, for them).

The SDF-1 is certainly a one of a kind, since the SDF-2 was initially designed to be a larger version of the Macross design and it is entirely possible, that if my theory is correct, that any subsequent SDF battleships would be based on the SDF-2 Megalord designs anyway, not the SDF-1.

Now on to the waiting...

[Shun]

¡¡¡Viva Espana!!!

duh, closing ceremony now...

yeah, will be great if Spain wins (about time!! )

BTW, do u have a larger pic of your avatar? Max and family?

Edited June 29, 2008 by Shun

[SpacePirateNeko]

im sure this was said somewhere in the last 33 pages, but well...

in episode ten when Leons in the restruant with his contact ...there is mention of having not seen anything yet concerning the vajra...

then in episode eleven when shryl is on her way to the planet Leon says to Grace...."evrything is going according to plan"

so i can only assume that Sheryl was meant to awaken whatever it is we see glowing under the ocean..except Ranka ended up doing it...

so....super vajra or something of the sorts is on the way

[s-girl]

then in episode eleven when shryl is on her way to the planet Leon says to Grace...."evrything is going according to plan"

so i can only assume that Sheryl was meant to awaken whatever it is we see glowing under the ocean..except Ranka ended up doing it...

so....super vajra or something of the sorts is on the way

I was actually wondering if the revolt was supposed to succeed, with Sheryl getting fried and crispy and with her death being perceived as an attack and setting off some kind of international incident. In that case it would mean Ranka and Michael had gotten in the way...

The only reason to mention that is several times already people have stated that things happening to Sheryl would be problematic.

If this is the case, then Sheryl could seriously be in trouble again or the sights of the conspirators might turn towards Ranka.

...

Another odd thought propelled by some comments here.

We don't know when the green little "squirrel" creature was around before, but I'm assuming it could also be a Hydra. If that thing was hanging around Ranka before unbeknownst to her, could that also have made her a target for Hydras and Vajra?

[Keith]

Ahhh, Keith, it's been a while since we last cross swords...

The SDF-1 was a "restoration" of the ASS-1. The Megalord was an SDF built from scratch.

You will note that the refit of the SDF-1 took many design elements incorporated into the SDF-2.

Going by that, the original design of the SDF-2 took everything from the SDF-1, and just made it bigger, come on.

I find it amusing that so many would support the idea that the "actual" Macross would be moved light years away from Earth for some fantastic reason as opposed to the far more logical idea that a predecessor class of SDF battleships would predate the NMCs.

Considering the fact that as of the intro of Macross Frontier (fleet movements), such Macross styled ships don't exist, it's not hard to believe at all. Whats harder to believe is that you treat using the Macross's fold drive as "fantastic."

If the SDFs were "attached" to future Megaroad colony ships similarly to the NMCs, then that would make the New Macross Class colony ships less of a new idea (in universe) than we the fans have come to believe since Mac 7.

Dude, the reason the New Macross Class exists, is because the Megaroads "did not" have such ships attached to them. They started out with Zentradi escorts, then progressed with the newer designed frigates & battleships, but there was no mystery fleet of SDF-1-alikes attached to them. There's no basis to believe such a thing happened. If you supply me with a picture from any previous Macross series, or Frontier that shows a Macross-aliek ship attached to a Megaroad, then you'll have substance for such a random idea. Until such time, pic's, or it didn't happen!1

I assert again, that it makes little sense for the UNG to figure out they need Macross Carriers to accompany colony fleets 20 years after the emigration program began. Kawamori may delve into the fantasic at times, but he's always been a logical story writer.

What's so hard to believe about that again? Bigass Zentradi escort ships! The Megaroads weren't going out unprotected. The priority was put on spreading out colony fleets, setting up resource gathering expeditions, and restoring a relative normal. Building a whole bunch of transforming escort battleships with reaction cannons took a back seat for 20 years, get over it.

I realize that such an idea is knocking over some people's altars, but SK has done that before and I expect will do so again in future.

He's never put something into a place where it was clearly shown not to have been.

It is fan assumptions that the actual SDF-1 was used in DYRL movie (in universe) as Mac F established that it could have been a post production CG image overlaying a regular carrier in the fleet. In the chronology no mention is made of it actually being used in the film (any documented support of its actual use would be welcomed).

Go take a trip to the Macross compendium.

"Debut: Macross TV episode 1

Other appearances: Movie, 2012, II, Plus"

http://macross.anime.net//mecha/united_nat...ross/index.html

http://macross.anime.net//story/encycloped...love/index.html

A bit of speculation? Maybe, but done so with enough reasonable proof to back it up. Bodolza's ship done with Holography? Mentioned. The Macross? Not so much

I suggest the only real denial here is those who refuse to accept the possiblity that the ship found is NOT the SDF-1 Macross... Making conclusive statements, doesn't close the window of doubt, that only shows certain individuals have closed their minds to the possibility (which is fine, for them).

The burdon of proof is in your direction. If it looks like the Macross, & is called the Macross, then its probably the freakin' Macross. Proof for anything else? You've shown nothing to support any form of reasonable doubt.

The SDF-1 is certainly a one of a kind, since the SDF-2 was initially designed to be a larger version of the Macross design and it is entirely possible, that if my theory is correct, that any subsequent SDF battleships would be based on the SDF-2 Megalord designs anyway, not the SDF-1.

Now on to the waiting...

It wasn't just designed to be a larger version, it was re-tooled into an entirely new design. The ship originally known as the SDF-2 Megaroad that looked like the Macross ceased to exist when it was re-tooled into the Long Distance Colony Ship Megaroad--01 Take a good look at that ship design, and tell me where the ship you're talking about is? I see the Bridge + an entirely new ship around it. No cannon booms, no nuthin'. Hell, let's go a little further. The Protodevelin took out the Megaroad-13 fleet, and used it as the basis to construct their new fleet. You can see some influence from the Megaroad in their main battleship, but no Macross like ship anywhere.

[Valkyrie addict]

we've been discussing the WTF-1 for 30+ pages, I think it's pretty clear that the writers goal was to confuse everyone and let you wondering what's happening, it's everything a cliffhanger end is supposed to be, and the preview just lets you know enough to keep wanting more but not letting anything go by, we can discuss this for 100 pages and we won't know what it is until next episode, I think we should just let the SDF-1 speculations down...

anyway, I think next episode could be a turning point in the series, it appears we're going to get a lot of explanation about the macross universe, the vajra are gonna get their claws out and so is Ranka...

[Keith]

It was also proven the Macross is still operable in M+. If this is the original Macross, the decay on it does not coincide with what was last seen in M+. The Macross on Earth is a monument and is always shown in prestine condition. Even after the rebuild according to Macross 2012. If this is the original, it will be very interesting to see how this is explained and where this story is going.

Two easy answers. It was involved in a big firefight, or it had a barrier explosion yet again.

[Keith]

My $0.02 ...

I think it's just a little too convenient for that eyeball thingie to have gone off just prior to Alto's flight controls going dead and subsequent emergency landing. They landed within walking distance of what appears to be the ruins of the SDF-1 where - as far as we know, at least - it's tens of thousands of light years from where they remember seeing it parked (Dude! Where's my Macross? ).

Also, since it was so close to their crash site, someone explain how they didn't see something that big when coming in? Even if Alto was struggling with the controls to try and land it, he how could you miss that? (I thought the valks were all fly-by-light ... the electronics go, I don't think it would matter at all how hard he pulled on the stick - it's going down like a rock).

Wild speculation: The eyeball thingie is somehow related to the protoculture (that's right, not Vajra), and the WTF-1 was obviously created for the benefit of Alto and Ranka. It wants to communicate with them, either directly or indirectly, and this would certainly get their attention.

It has to be a fake, an illusion of some sort, or a fabrication created by some sort of higher intelligence. Maybe it's the birdman's cousin Larry. Perhaps a "booby trap" left behind by the Protoculture should any of its progeny come calling, or at least the more "desirable" progeny: Surely the Zentradi stationed on this planet would have performed recon sweeps and scanned the planet from orbit at some point. Britai could detect the Macross parked on South Ataria Island from nearly past the moon's orbit, so I have some difficulty believing that they'd somehow miss a replica of the Macross sitting out in the open like that.

Good episode. Very good.

( Zentran! Zentran! Zentran! )

Watch the ending again, Ranka did see the ship, she flashed on it right after the crash, which is why she walked over to take a look.