Macross Frontier Episode 12 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[darkrealmbahamut]

Since animated gifs are going around, can someone make me an animated gif from ep.12 of when Alto pulled his knife and charged at Temjin that I could use for an avatar (it can be sized anyway I guess though since that will resize). Kind of goes against my string of using VF-25G avatars but I want something different and I liked that part.

Damn you stole my idea Dex! Hmm well I really like the face that Mikhail makes at the new fold booster though. Priceless.

[Master Dex]

Damn you stole my idea Dex! Hmm well I really like the face that Mikhail makes at the new fold booster though. Priceless.

Can't steal an idea that wasn't proposed previously can you? Still waiting for someone to make the gif though, I'm sure someone will come through. Mikhail was kind of creeped out by how well LAI can make their stuff, it was a good moment. Off topic, but I hope sometime soon we get to see Ozma's VF-25S without any extra armor, it hasn't been shown as such at all in the series so far and we are half way through.

[The_WOZ]

It might be. It's been a while since the episode 7 battle, so it's possible that the LAI scientists have managed to use Luca's scan data to come up with the new booster. My theory was that they got it off of the VF-27 blueprints that Leon received. But reverse engineering it from Luca's scan data is also a possibility.

There's also the possibility that LAI was in fact developing a purple crystal fold drive before episode 7 battle (Luca recognized the crystal at the Vajra ship as a fold generator), but Luca's scan provided the critical data necessary to complete the prototype.

[Smiley424]

Just watched the episode and loved it. Love all the homages to SDF:M. I wasn't expecting Ranka to come with Michel, I was expecting Michel and Alto to tear the rogue Zents a new one, but the way the episode played out with Ranka being able to end the conflict peacefully was nicely done IMO. The Alto and pseudo Kamjin fight was ok, though Alto pulled a killer move to get the Zent and it looks like he'll be back to fight with Alto in the future (I hope). The appearance of the supposed SDF-1 at the end was the first real surprise in the series for me. I am eagerly awaiting the next episode so we can get the lowdown on this "Macross".

[Raptor One]

Wow I wanted to use your ass in conjunction with my raw... but it looks like the version the timer used lacked the "grand sponsor announcement" so the timing is off after the opening. Damn.

Lol that is pretty funny out of context. But anyway I tried to do the same thing and spent about 10 minutes adjusting the timing in Media Player Classic. If I remember correctly, a delay of 10500 milliseconds gets it pretty much on time (after the sponsor announcement of course).

Edited June 29, 2008 by Raptor One

[ComicKaze]

Man, this is an insane cliffhanger week.

First the SDF-1 comes back and now the Doctor is regenerating.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Umm, who brought this guy? He's here 5 min and plays at being moderator over a legitimate, flame free debate....

OK, this is assuming that SDFM is "still" the historical depiction of SW1. It has already been floated out there in the CD notes that a TV dramatization of those events has been produced. It has also been stated by Kawamori himself that the VFs in DYRL are the designs he prefers which is why they tend to show up over and over again in various media, since the movie came out in '84.

As for the 1st Generation "Macross Class" ship, the Megalord (Megalord) was being built simultaneously on the moon as the Macross was being restored, from all the tech that was being discovered and used at the time. This is canon.

The speculation is, that after the loss of the first Megaroad colony fleet, that more of these fortresses were built to accompany successive fleets as added protection.

Logically this would account for the New Macross Carriers' existence 40 years later in Mac 7. If such carriers were not beneficial, then why deploy them at all? One could argue that SDF cap ships had accompanied all Megaroad fleets until the launch of the New Macross Class Colony ship in 2038, which integrated the New Macross Carrier into the City ship.

That is over 20 years of Megaroad fleet launches before the New Macross ships were launched. Thus if the UNG felt the need to design and build the NMC, then why did it take them 20 years to figure out there was a need to begin with?

Considering how many deliberate gaps there are in the chronology, I really don't see this idea as any sort of threat to the continuity at all. As a matter of fact, for me, it is more complimentary and it gives the chronology more believability, than not...

My point was that instead of discussing whether or not is the original Macross... we should ask ourselves why in blazes was the SDF-1 in Galia 4? This is what we should be talking about, not complicating things more creating wild theories about Macross ships used as escorts of colonization fleets when there isn't any official information of such... and actually doesn't make sense, since the U.N. Spacy policy from the start of the colonization fleet program was to have small ships as escorts and not expensive SDF class ones... This is canon too.

I believe another thing to consider is the fact that the working title of episode 13 was originally "Twilight Planet" instead of "Memory of Global". Apparently the producers of the show did that for not spoiling the surprise of what was going to be shown at the end of episode 12.

Next episode probably will explain things. However, it is an known and official fact that Bruno J. Global was the captain of the SDF-1 once and he didn't have any other ship after that one, ergo... the ship in Galia 4 was Global's ship... the SDF-1.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[taksraven]

Man, this is an insane cliffhanger week.

First the SDF-1 comes back and now the

Doctor is regenerating

.

Man, have consideration for those who have not seen Dr Who yet. (I know its been more than 12 hours, but we're not talking about Macross.) I think the cliffhanger for Frontier was actually better than the Who one as there was ABSOLUTELY NO WAY anybody could have seen that coming.

Taksraven

[cyde01]

Bruno J. Global was the captain of the SDF-1 and he didn't have any other ship after that one, ergo... the ship in Galia 4 was Global's ship... the SDF-1.

this is completely ignoring the fact that sdf-1 was NOT global's ship for several decades between sw1 and macross f. in mac plus, we clearly see that sdf-1 is captained by someone else, and i'm damn sure that global was not the captain of sdf-1 when it got hijacked in vfx-2.

because kawamori likes to retconn, i think both explanations are likely. it could be the sdf-1 or it could be a similar ship that was built that we simply didn't know about. global could have gone on to captain an sdf-3 or 4 after sw1, we simply don't know. the japanese in the ep13 preview is just too ambiguous to definitively say one way or the other. i'm starting to think that it is THE sdf-1 was well, but we just won't know for sure until episode 13 comes out.

[Sulendil Ang]

Well we're arguing about the origin of WTF-1 and why it's on Galia 4, Lunar sub is out.

[Kronnang Dunn]

this is completely ignoring the fact that sdf-1 was NOT global's ship for several decades between sw1 and macross f. in mac plus, we clearly see that sdf-1 is captained by someone else, and i'm damn sure that global was not the captain of sdf-1 when it got hijacked in vfx-2.

because kawamori likes to retconn, i think both explanations are likely. it could be the sdf-1 or it could be a similar ship that was built that we simply didn't know about. global could have gone on to captain an sdf-3 or 4 after sw1, we simply don't know. the japanese in the ep13 preview is just too ambiguous to definitively say one way or the other. i'm starting to think that it is THE sdf-1 was well, but we just won't know for sure until episode 13 comes out.

O.k., let me correct that... Epísode 13 is called Memory of Global because the ship shown at the end of Episode 12 was Global's ship once... (see the relation?)

Add to this what was said in next episode's preview and it becomes obviously clear that the ship is the original Macross...

Edited June 29, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Scream Man]

Finally a good episode! I was starting to worry. Minimal fanservice too!

obviously I was as stunned as anyone by the appearance of the Macross, and cant wauit to see what the hell is going on there!

Oh, and people were question male Zents in the Q-raus, but Max flew one in DYRL? didn;t he?

[Kronnang Dunn]

Oh, and people were question male Zents in the Q-raus, but Max flew one in DYRL? didn;t he?

Of course... The whole Zentradi who fly Q-Rheas aren't manly seems pretty stupid to me... The Q-Rheas are superior to the Nousjas... And according to the Macross Compendium, Zentradi males have been flying the Rheas since ancient times too...

We are talking mecha here, not a woman's dress... jeez.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Gubaba]

...because kawamori likes to retconn...

Okay, there's the whole DYRL is a movie within a movie, but everything else pretty much fits.

He doesn't retcon THAT much (or that sweepingly).

[Kronnang Dunn]

Okay, there's the whole DYRL is a movie within a movie, but everything else pretty much fits.

He doesn't retcon THAT much (or that sweepingly).

It's been debated a lot whether ot not the events of DYRL and/or the TV series are official. Here is what Kawamori himself said in an interview regarding the canonity of both DYRL and SDF Macross...

Interviewer: It seems many American fans tend to thing of the Macross movie as the "official" Macross continuity. What's your opinion?

Kawamori: Consider real history. Many different stories have been created based on the same historical facts, haven't they? For example, there are many stories about World War II. It's the same thing with Macross. The real Macross is out there, somewhere. If I tell the story in the length of a TV series, it looks one way, and if I tell it as a movie-length story, it's organized another way.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Master Dex]

It's been debated a lot whether ot not the events of DYRL and/or the TV series are official. Here is what Kawamori himself said in an interview regarding the canonity of both DYRL and SDF Macross...

Interviewer: It seems many American fans tend to thing of the Macross movie as the "official" Macross continuity. What's your opinion?

Kawamori: Consider real history. Many different stories have been created based on the same historical facts, haven't they? For example, there are many stories about World War II. It's the same thing with Macross. The real Macross is out there, somewhere. If I tell the story in the length of a TV series, it looks one way, and if I tell it as a movie-length story, it's organized another way.

Makes perfect sense to me actually. He refers to revisionist history. It all depends on who is telling the story and how it is being told.

[Gubaba]

It's been debated a lot whether ot not the events of DYRL and/or the TV series are official. Here is what Kawamori himself said in an interview regarding the canonity of both DYRL and SDF Macross...

Interviewer: It seems many American fans tend to thing of the Macross movie as the "official" Macross continuity. What's your opinion?

Kawamori: Consider real history. Many different stories have been created based on the same historical facts, haven't they? For example, there are many stories about World War II. It's the same thing with Macross. The real Macross is out there, somewhere. If I tell the story in the length of a TV series, it looks one way, and if I tell it as a movie-length story, it's organized another way.

Yeah. That why I made an exception for DYRL. Any other retcons...? The VF-0 fits in nicely (with a bit of tweaking). For everything, canonicity holds.

(Incidentally, that interview was done before Macross Plus, and, as such, was before the Hory Froating Head decided that DYRL was a movie within the Macross Universe.)

[ComicKaze]

The best part about this thread is all the WTFs

After my splurge watching zero, I was expecting another protoculture birdman type character because of the underwater eye.

[ComicKaze]

Its KAwamori we're talking about. I won't be surprised if he said

"Actually the ASS-1 was the Protoculture's Trump card in protecting the galaxy against the VAJRA. It will awaken to reveal itself as a "Birdman" and liberate the universe".

This makes perfect sense.

[Chief Guld Goa Bowman]

I don't think we seen the last of the Birdman.

[eugimon]

lunar is out

[Chief Guld Goa Bowman]

Is the 33rd Naval/Marine Fleet stationed in planet Galia 4 part of the NUNS?

[darkrealmbahamut]

Can't steal an idea that wasn't proposed previously can you? Still waiting for someone to make the gif though, I'm sure someone will come through. Mikhail was kind of creeped out by how well LAI can make their stuff, it was a good moment. Off topic, but I hope sometime soon we get to see Ozma's VF-25S without any extra armor, it hasn't been shown as such at all in the series so far and we are half way through.

The paper work is in my head in a lock box so it still stand sorta. I have to say Mikhail has really grown on me a lot and is one of my favorites.

Yeah. That why I made an exception for DYRL. Any other retcons...? The VF-0 fits in nicely (with a bit of tweaking). For everything, canonicity holds.

(Incidentally, that interview was done before Macross Plus, and, as such, was before the Hory Froating Head decided that DYRL was a movie within the Macross Universe.)

And Gubaba came unto us and it was so. Really though it is true and something you learn from film school directors/creators BS a lot on how or why something was created. Mac Zero being a prime point since it reset some of our thought processes on how the Macross Universe started.

[Morpheus]

Is the 33rd Naval/Marine Fleet stationed in planet Galia 4 part of the NUNS?

Yup, there's a huge NUNS letter on the landing pad where Ranka is performing her 'debut'

[Keith]

Just to recap people:

-Macross TV is 100% story canon in story, character, & mecha design. The statements about the different views of the Macross universe occurred sometime around DYRL's release, and since have been recinded.

-There's no mystery behind why the Macross's fold engine dissapeared, why the systems went wonky, or anything else to do with the ship. That was clearly explained as a computer conflict between new (human) & old (SA) programming when the Zentradi folded into orbit. The old engines ain't comming back, and even if they did, there are newer better fold engines in their place.

-Sharon Apple is dead, destroyed, caput, gone. Isamu turned her into Sharon Baked Apple.

-The ship in the preview is the original (refit) Macross, and as shown in DYRL, Macross Plus, & VFX-2, it's still capable of flight.

Did I miss anything?

[darkrealmbahamut]

-The ship in the preview is the original (refit) Macross, and as shown in DYRL, Macross Plus, & VFX-2, it's still capable of flight.

As many of our Japanese speakers have said it is still hard to tell if it means the first or not. Even people in Japan are in debat if it is to be read as first macross or first gen. So we should leave that debat til Thursday and then we can all say who was right and who was wrong.

[Kronnang Dunn]

As many of our Japanese speakers have said it is still hard to tell if it means the first or not. Even people in Japan are in debat if it is to be read as first macross or first gen. So we should leave that debat til Thursday and then we can all say who was right and who was wrong.

Yep... until we all watch Memory of Global...

...Bruno J. Global...

Who was captain of the SDF-1 Macross once...

A ship that looked a lot like the one Ranka found on Galia 4...

[darkrealmbahamut]

Yep... until we all watch Memory of Global...

...Bruno J. Global...

Who was captain of the SDF-1 Macross once...

A ship that looked a lot like the one Ranka found on Galia 4...

It could be swamp gas... the MIB told me so.

[Keith]

Both Ranka & Alto recognized it as the Macross, why is this a discussion?

[eugimon]

Both Ranka & Alto recognized it as the Macross, why is this a discussion?

we just refuse to believe that our beloved Macross could be left marooned on some backwater planet, listing in some pathetic lagoon.

[darkrealmbahamut]

Both Ranka & Alto recognized it as the Macross, why is this a discussion?

They said Macross no more no less though. Thus there is room for how you want to read it. I mean there was a huge debat on the you was said when Ranka saw Brera ranging from people saying she recognized him to she just seemed shocked he knew the song. Most likely it is the SDF-1 but with all the twists this story has produced I wouldn't be suprised if someone pulled another fast one on us.

[darkrealmbahamut]

we just refuse to believe that our beloved Macross could be left marooned on some backwater planet, listing in some pathetic lagoon.

Amen to that.

[Gubaba]

As many of our Japanese speakers have said it is still hard to tell if it means the first or not.

Who said that?

[Zinjo]

Yes, please. Two, as a matter of fact.

First, the Compendium states that the SDF-2 was planned but never completed. If they completed some later, wouldn't it NOT be listed as "planned"...?

Second, in Japanese, "Megaroad" and "Megalord" (and for that matter, "Megaload") would all be メガロード. Doesn't it seem strange to you that they would essentially call both ships by the same name...? (I guess that's not really an answerable question, it just struck me as really, really odd...)

Point of fact is that the SDF-2 was under construction, not planned.

2003

November In a factory beneath Apollo Lunar Base, using feedback from restoration work on ASS-1, construction begins on SDF-2, a stellar space warship entirely of Earth origin.

An assignment of U.N. Spacy personnel arrives at Mars Base.

However there is no mention of it being completed before SW1. Therefore it was 6 years into production before the Zentreadi first arrived. If one were to base construction of an SDF on the how long it took to rebuild the Macross at that time, it was approximately 60% complete by generous calculation - probably less, as they had to construct the chassis from scratch.

The naming difference was decided in the Compendium by those with better translation skills and with access to better resources than I, so I go by their informed decision.

[darkrealmbahamut]

Who said that?

Earlier it was mentioned by Shun.