Macross VFx 1 & 2 and M3

[jasgripen]

Hi guys!

Can somebody here give me an overview of the plot of Macross VFX 1 and 2? What about M3 in the dreamcast?

Is it true that VFX2 is related to frontier and are these games canon and have any historical significance in the macross timeline?

[mikeszekely]

It should go without saying that this thread is going to have spoilers, so I'm not going to bother to tag them.

VF-X: Light on plot, basically you're some kind of elite pilot on a mission to rescue a pop group, the Milky Dolls, from some Zentraedi faction.

VF-X2: I might be missing some details, but here goes. You're Aegis Focker, and you've been selected to join an elite unite, the VF-X Ravens. At first, your enemy appears to be an Anti-UN faction called Black Rainbow. During one mission, your mentor/squad leader is MIA after fighting a Zentraedi ace that he apparently knew, and you're promoted to the new team leader. You wind up meeting and fighting with Manfred Brando, the leader of the Critical Path Corporation, although aside from developing some kind of sound barrier, I'm not sure what his role is. Late in the game, you wind up finding you old mentor, only now he's flying with Black Rainbow. To get the good ending (and I presume the canon ending), you decide to go along with him, and it turns out that some UN guy who's been giving the Ravens their missions is the real bad guy and he's been manipulating things all along. After a fight with him, he launches the Macross 13, with one of Brando's sound barriers. You take it out (after taking down one of your former underlings), and I'm not really sure what happens after that, because I got one of the copies that locks up at the ending.

M3: Not 100% sure, since I never played it. Has something to do with Max and Milia's time in the Dancing Skulls, which is in the period between Flashback 2012 and Macross Plus. They adopt some kid (as if they didn't have enough of their own), and shoot down some Variable Glaugs.

Of the three, VF-X2 would be the most likely to have any influence on Frontier, as it's both the plottiest as well as occurring closest to it (2050, or 9 years before), but aside from introducing the Konig Monster, it doesn't appear to have any serious influence. There's been some speculation that the corrupt officer and the Black Rainbow/UN conflict might have had some influence on the transition from the UN to the NUN government, but that's still just speculation.

I'm not sure about M3, but the VF-X games both have Kawamori's blessings and are both canon.

[Master Dex]

I also have a copy of VF-X2 that locks up before the ending, it sucks (I assume your talking rom/iso for PSX emulater as I am) do you know any good version to get, I'd like to be able to actually see it end and unlock the stuff you can unlock from beating it.

On topic though, that explanation of VF-X2 is pretty accurate. I believe Critical Path was secretly in league with the head UN officer (the one that turned out to be the real bad guy). I think the idea was that Critical Path supplies the missile lock-on jammer they developed and then the UN guy (I'm calling him that) will use this advantage to stage a coup in the UN for some purpose of his own. It is most likely the reason you were fighting Critical Path was plausible deniability on the UN Guy's part but it is possible the real higher ups in the UN wanted them tracked down as well. Anyway it would seem Black Rainbow figured out what was going on and they sort of attempted a preemptive coup since they didn't have evidence I guess and that is why they were originally seen as the bad guys. Like mikeszekely said from there your leader defects to them and if you do so as well you help defeat the corrupt UN Guy, destroy Macross 13 and save the day. Note if you chose not to join your leader then you fight him, you stay with UN Guy and eventually kill your old leader only to learn he was right all along and you are a total dickweed (hence why it is bad ending).

[bob joe mac]

I own VFX-2 and played it on my modded PS1 and my copy as well freezes at the ending even youtube doesn't have the ending

[Noyhauser]

Mike

I think you underestimate the influence of VFX-2. First is what seems to be the vajira inspired craft on like the 8th ground level (when you first get the Monster.) It looks completely out of place when you first face it, but looking back now after watching Macross frontier's Vajira designs, you can't help but wonder if there is a connection. That goes for the "sound barrier" as well, which might have something to do with the jamming we see in the first episode... but thats far more tenuous a link. Finally, the whole rebellion aspect (including the use of macross 13), which might imply the creation of NUNS. That too is complete speculation, but its portrayed as a pretty serious event nonetheless.

[mikeszekely]

I assume your talking rom/iso for PSX emulater as I am

Actually, no, I actually own a copy. One of the Japanese exchange students picked it up for me when I was in college. AFAIK, the problem wasn't a bad rip, but an actual defective game. I would LOVE an ISO image of one that doesn't lock up, but I never found one.

First is what seems to be the vajira inspired craft on like the 8th ground level (when you first get the Monster.) It looks completely out of place when you first face it, but looking back now after watching Macross frontier's Vajira designs, you can't help but wonder if there is a connection.

I assume you mean this?

The thing has four limb-like thrusters and a particle cannon on its back, but it's a stretch to think there's a Vajra connection.

That goes for the "sound barrier" as well, which might have something to do with the jamming we see in the first episode... but thats far more tenuous a link. Finally, the whole rebellion aspect (including the use of macross 13), which might imply the creation of NUNS. That too is complete speculation, but its portrayed as a pretty serious event nonetheless.

By your own admission, speculation.

I think you underestimate the influence of VFX-2.

I'm not saying that the events of VF-X2 didn't have any impact on Frontier or the future of the Macross Universe. Indeed, VF-X2 had a solid story worthy of on OAV, and since it is part of Macross canon I would love to see Frontier acknowledge the events of VF-X2. With tenuous links and speculation at best, though, until something happens in Frontier with a more direct link I'd say it's more likely you're overestimating it.

But hey, I'd love to be wrong.

[Noyhauser]

I assume you mean this?

The thing has four limb-like thrusters and a particle cannon on its back, but it's a stretch to think there's a Vajra connection.

So where did it come from? There is no precedent design linage for this vehicle: its certainly not from zentredi, meltrandi, UN Spacy, Vartua (or I guess Supervision army) linages. Instead its a non-transformable four legged beast shape, armed with missiles (not unique, but it is what the monster carries) as well as a particle cannon that looks exactly like the one carried by a Vajra. No other vehicle mounts the same weapon, or looks the same way. Thats why when I initially played it I got the WTF moment because it looked like nothing else in the macross universe up until Frontier. Everything else in the game was canon; Valkyries, destroids, Zent units, starwings, Ghosts, except this.

For me the clincher is that we now know that UN Spacy had already encountered the Vajira by 2050, when the research fleet carrying Ranka and her parents were destroyed in 2048. I'm not saying the vehicle is vajra, just that it seems to be an early and poor attempt to copy the technology. With the UN official manipulating things in the background, its completely plausible that he passed information about the vajra superweapon to the Vindirance/Critical path corporation to produce a early copy. Its certainly the most plausible story.

Edited June 20, 2008 by Noyhauser

[mikeszekely]

So where did it come from? There is no precedent design linage for this vehicle: its certainly not from zentredi, meltrandi, UN Spacy, Vartua (or I guess Supervision army) linages. Instead its a non-transformable four legged beast shape, armed with missiles (not unique, but it is what the monster carries) as well as a particle cannon that looks exactly like the one carried by a Vajra. No other vehicle mounts the same weapon, or looks the same way. Thats why when I initially played it I got the WTF moment because it looked like nothing else in the macross universe up until Frontier. Everything else in the game was canon; Valkyries, destroids, Zent units, starwings, Ghosts, except this.

For me the clincher is that we now know that UN Spacy had already encountered the Vajira by 2050, when the research fleet carrying Ranka and her parents were destroyed in 2048. I'm not saying the vehicle is vajra, just that it seems to be an early and poor attempt to copy the technology. With the UN official manipulating things in the background, its completely plausible that he passed information about the vajra superweapon to the Vindirance/Critical path corporation to produce a early copy. Its certainly the most plausible story.

So you're saying that this does fit with the usual Macross mecha? Or this? Or this? They all share more design aesthetics than the Gjagravan-Va and the Vajra. As for where it came from, I'm Black Rainbow was using it, so I assume it's a new design of Zentraedi technology. The name certainly appears Zentraedi. We only know that the Vajra destroyed the research fleet in 2048, but how much the UN knew about the Vajra prior to 2048 or even after that encounter is speculation, as well as who in the UN even had access to that information, as it's obviously still classified in 2059. It's a stretch to assume that Critical Path's contacts in the UN even knew about the Vajra, let alone leaked information about the Vajra to them. And two years isn't much time to build a weapon that's modeled after what the UN seemed to assume was a life form (they all seemed shocked when bad haircut guy suggested that the Vajra was lacking in higher brain functions), and for that weapon to fall into Black Rainbow's hands.

Finally, you're asking me to believe that either Kawamori had Frontier in mind when he worked on VF-X2 a decade ago, or that he thought enough of the Gjagravan-Va to model the Vajra off of it with the intention to retcon a UN info leak to retroactively explain the Gjagravan-Va's design? I'm sorry, but neither scenario seems likely to me.

Again, I would love to be wrong. VF-X2 was a fantastic piece of Macross fiction, and I would love for Frontier to reference it more directly. But without any solid reference in Frontier your perceived connections are just speculation.

[Ginrai]

They problem is they are all quite poor as video games.

[Master Dex]

I see, so it isn't just my iso/rom (whatever it is called for PS1 emulators) that does that, I just figured my file was faulty but there are actual defective games then? I suppose somewhere there must be an iso or rom that isn't defective as well, but I haven't found it.

[Heron]

Ok, I am looking to purchase the VFX games, any one? Guillermo?

[JB0]

I see, so it isn't just my iso/rom (whatever it is called for PS1 emulators) ...

The proper term would be disk image.

The less-correct, but still acceptable, term would be ISO(from ISO-9660, the data format used on CD-ROM disks).

The "just plain wrong" would be ROM, which is only applicable to games which were originally on ROM chips.

Hence ROM image(the proper term for said game dumps), which was improperly shortened to ROM, and was subsequently misapplied to all pirated software.

[Ginrai]

Well, CD-ROM is accurate.

[bandit29]

I had the Asian version of VFX2(came with English/Chinese instruction sheet) that would lock up too at the end of the last mission..never did see the ending..

[halfan]

Any notion of a bad VF-X2 disc is a myth. I know this because I originally played the game on a US PS1 via the disc swap method and as the last mission was over, the screen would go to black. Playing the same game on a Japanese PS2, I never encountered the game freezing or going to black. Seeing the ending is dependent on playing the game on the proper hardware, a Japanese/Asian PS1/PS2. I have heard of someone getting to the ending with a mod chipped PS1, but I don't know the specifics of that instance. IIRC, the bad ending only rolls the credits (which are in English btw), but the good ending shows a static picture of Gilium's flight helmet over a gravestone. I have seen screen shots of the ending somewhere on the net but it's been so long I wouldn't know where I saw them and as I have seen the ending, I thought nothing more of it.

Edited June 26, 2008 by halfan

[Renato]

Yeah, I completed the game on a Japanese PS1 but I honestly can't remember what it was like. I know that there is no cool animated ending, the only anime scenes are the opening sequence and the scene just before the last mission which shows the Macross 13.

As some have already said, you just get Aegis going "oh man" or something and scrolling credits over a black screen for the "bad" ending, and for the other one yeah, there may have been a gravestone or something, I can't remember. Anyway, it does have more closure than the other one.

[bandit29]

Any notion of a bad VF-X2 disc is a myth. I know this because I originally played the game on a US PS1 via the disc swap method and as the last mission was over, the screen would go to black. Playing the same game on a Japanese PS2, I never encountered the game freezing or going to black. Seeing the ending is dependent on playing the game on the proper hardware, a Japanese/Asian PS1/PS2. I have heard of someone getting to the ending with a mod chipped PS1, but I don't know the specifics of that instance. IIRC, the bad ending only rolls the credits (which are in English btw), but the good ending shows a static picture of Gilium's flight helmet over a gravestone. I have seen screen shots of the ending somewhere on the net but it's been so long I wouldn't know where I saw them and as I have seen the ending, I thought nothing more of it.

You might be right about that. The swap method on the old PSX (with the mod cart on the back and the spring) is what I used before I got a JP Slim PSone. After I bought that, I couldn't bring myself to play VF-X2 again...its awful...glad I sold it.

[Master Dex]

Any notion of a bad VF-X2 disc is a myth. I know this because I originally played the game on a US PS1 via the disc swap method and as the last mission was over, the screen would go to black. Playing the same game on a Japanese PS2, I never encountered the game freezing or going to black. Seeing the ending is dependent on playing the game on the proper hardware, a Japanese/Asian PS1/PS2. I have heard of someone getting to the ending with a mod chipped PS1, but I don't know the specifics of that instance. IIRC, the bad ending only rolls the credits (which are in English btw), but the good ending shows a static picture of Gilium's flight helmet over a gravestone. I have seen screen shots of the ending somewhere on the net but it's been so long I wouldn't know where I saw them and as I have seen the ending, I thought nothing more of it.

Makes me wonder why it does the screen going to black glitch on the PS1 emulator then... maybe some plugin I don't have is causing that problem. I just want it to scroll through so I can save it and then have access to the stuff unlocked for beating the game.

And I don't own any version of a PS1 so that is why I am using the emulator option.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Master Dex

[mikeszekely]

Any notion of a bad VF-X2 disc is a myth. I know this because I originally played the game on a US PS1 via the disc swap method and as the last mission was over, the screen would go to black. Playing the same game on a Japanese PS2, I never encountered the game freezing or going to black. Seeing the ending is dependent on playing the game on the proper hardware, a Japanese/Asian PS1/PS2. I have heard of someone getting to the ending with a mod chipped PS1, but I don't know the specifics of that instance. IIRC, the bad ending only rolls the credits (which are in English btw), but the good ending shows a static picture of Gilium's flight helmet over a gravestone. I have seen screen shots of the ending somewhere on the net but it's been so long I wouldn't know where I saw them and as I have seen the ending, I thought nothing more of it.

I'm not sure I agree with that. I have the NTSC-J game, not a copy, and it didn't work on a Japanese PS2.

[sdf2501]

Wouldn't it be funny if the bad VF-X2 ending was the canonical one, and that was how the whole NUNS thing came about?

[Aero of Steel]

Did they release a Macross M3 soundtrack?

[boinger]

M3 soundtrack can be found on Macross Share website in the soundtracks section.

[Wicked Ace]

This seems as good a thread as any to ask this: how does one achieve the Moa_is_happy_with_you ending to M3?

Edited July 3, 2008 by Wicked Ace

[yellowlightman]

This seems as good a thread as any to ask this: how does one achieve the Moa_is_happy_with_you ending to M3?

The only way to win (that monstrosity of a game) is to not play.

Or uh, check out this FAQ: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/dreamcast/file/430833/10984

[Bill C.]

The only thing I remember clearly about VF-X is the pair of Milky Dolls vocal songs from it. I loved those...