Macross Frontier Episode 11 Talkback Thread *READ 1st Post*

[Valkyrie addict]

and if he get Kamjin and Breetai in next episode, I demand to see Hikaru, Misa & Minmei in Frontier!!

[Sumdumgai]

So far I find Alto to be far less of a douchebag than Hikaru was in Macross. Here in Frontier Alto is set up with the option to try to settle some stuff with his family (IT'S A TRAP!), go fly the free skies of a planet by going with Sheryl, or meeting Ranka for some surprise. I don't blame Alto for choosing to go with Sheryl to fly freely in a sky without a dome limiting everything. I think that when you get that once in a lifetime shot at fulfilling a lifelong dream, grab it with both hands and go for it. Alto could have called Ranka rather than letting her run to that hill to meet Mr. Ladyhunter left to tell her "sorry Alto's not coming". So that part sucked. But still, Alto is nowhere near as bad as Hikaru.

The way that Hikaru stood up a date with Misa all day so he could date Minmay was horrible. Then he comes after making her wait a whole day, wraps a scarf around her, lies to her about what kept him, and then she sees he's wearing a scarf made by Minmay. That he wrapped around her.

Alto could have handled things better, but so far he's not bungling things as bad as our original hero.

[Sergorn]

Just seen it. I've yet to read the whole topic (geez by the time I watch it it's already so long ), but it was a very nice episode. I love these character centric episodes, how the develop the characters and their relationship. I really have to say that this one of the reason I love Macross and Kawamori's work... he never forget the whole human side of the story.

That being sad... yeah as we suspected Grace is the one working with Brera and feeding Leon with information. I wonder what she aims at... it really seems she's trully sending Sheryl in arm's way here... and obviously Sheryl trust her a lot.

I thought the whole thing about Alto's character and how he's just "acting" to be a pilot was interesting. I hope we'll see more of this side and his family. I also find itneresting that Luca's family's pretty much that LAI conglomerate we heard about from Leon last episode. Hum.

I feel really sad for Ranka I'm rooting for you Ranka-chan don't give up !

The new ending is pretty nice too.

(And it that me or one of the Zentradi characters in the episode 12 preview looks a LOT like Kamjin ? )

-Sergorn

[Mandy]

Well! It seems that Alto knows what he wants. I can only hope he follows through with it and has no regrets. Felt kinda bad for Ranka though, but then again I kinda expected it :T

[Westlo]

well...concerning Sheryl gift to Alto contrast to Ranka's, Alto has only opened up as person more to Sheryl than to Ranka, Alto has never told Ranka his desired to fly free in an atmosphere and his hate to Frontier for that, he also never mentioned his Kabuki background to her, remember the Zero episode when Ranka finds out about it from the directors and she asks if Sheryl knew about and she says of course she did and Luca just says that he mentioned something about it, and Ranka gets angry and leaves 'cause Alto seems to confide more in Sheryl than her

so, as a fair nod to Ranka, she really doesn't Alto really well to get her what he 'really' wants, unlike Sheryl, although, I'm sure if she knew, considering she's just a kid she couldn't have done any better

This is true but the thing is Ranka could've found this stuff out but she didn't.. why is that...? Because during her numerous conversations with Alto 99% of the time she talks about herself, her present to Alto was fitting in that regard since it was a ticket to her concert. Sheryl otoh has actually asked Alto questions, that's how you get to know people especially ones like Alto who aren't forthcoming at all. Since she asked him questions like the following..

Sheryl - Hey Alto, do you like this ship?

Alto - I hate it I don’t like city ships.

Sheryl - Why?

Alto - There’s no sky here.

She knew that he would love her present as you can tell by her voice (lovely work by Aya Endo) that's why I'm finding it hard to feel sympathetic for Ranka since her problems are caused by her being reactive instead of proactive as well as being self centered when it comes to Alto unlike Sheryl. This along with Sheryl and Alto having much better chemistry and personality match is why I really think it should be Sheryl who ends up with Alto at the end. Ranka to me seems like a character who will suffer defeat but win through personal character growth instead.

Edited June 22, 2008 by Westlo

[Gubaba]

So let's see if I'm up to speed here...

Ranka's self-absorbed, and Sheryl knows how to manipulate people.

And Alto just sits there.

And yet...for some reason...I like these people...

[d3v]

So let's see if I'm up to speed here...

Ranka's self-absorbed, and Sheryl knows how to manipulate people.

And Alto just sits there.

And yet...for some reason...I like these people...

You forget, for Alto, he'll be making paper planes while he sits there.

But at the very least, he's not a psychologically impareied emotive maniac who's childhood issues means that he has a secret thing for his sister/brother/best friend/former roomate.

[ron5864]

Episode 12 could have Kamjin in it and he might not be a clone. The preview seems to show him with an eye patch/eye implant over his right eye. Remember back in the last episode of Macross: SDF, Kamjin loss his right eye right before crashing his ship into the SDF-1.

[Gubaba]

You forget, for Alto, he'll be making paper planes while he sits there.

But at the very least, he's not a psychologically impareied emotive maniac who's childhood issues means that he has a secret thing for his sister/brother/best friend/former roomate.

True dat.

Episode 12 could have Kamjin in it and he might not be a clone. The preview seems to show him with an eye patch/eye implant over his right eye. Remember back in the last episode of Macross: SDF, Kamjin loss his right eye right before crashing his ship into the SDF-1.

Important part in bold.

[VF5SS]

Nevermind the fact that Kamjin lost his left eye and not the right one. Also his ship kinda blew up. I'd like to hope we're not at Gundam SEED levels of pilot survivability yet.

[mike_s_6]

well...concerning Sheryl gift to Alto contrast to Ranka's, Alto has only opened up as person more to Sheryl than to Ranka, Alto has never told Ranka his desired to fly free in an atmosphere and his hate to Frontier for that, he also never mentioned his Kabuki background to her, remember the Zero episode when Ranka finds out about it from the directors and she asks if Sheryl knew about and she says of course she did and Luca just says that he mentioned something about it, and Ranka gets angry and leaves 'cause Alto seems to confide more in Sheryl than her

Actually, Sheryl knew about Alto's family because she knows Ranzo Saotome is a popular actor. When he was called "Princess" in school, I think she put two and two together, and since Alto's reaction to being called "Princess" seemed adverse, she didn't bother him with it anymore. That's smart of her. Now Ranka... just doesn't know about the whole kabuki thing, which I don't blame her, but we can't say that Sheryl knew more about Alto's past because Alto told her. She's just a pro

Edited June 22, 2008 by mike_s_6

[Major Focker]

sheryl probably had grace look alto up.

or more likely, grace snooped on alto, and dropped tidbits of info to sheryl

[mike_s_6]

sheryl probably had grace look alto up.

or more likely, grace snooped on alto, and dropped tidbits of info to sheryl

Those really are just your guesses to discredit what Sheryl knows. She has worked with Ranzo Saotome in judging the contestants of Miss Macross!

"Now let's introduce our nights' judges, here we have the Glactic Fairy Sheryl Nome! And popular kabuki actor Ranzo Saotome!"

While it's possible that she had Alto looked up by Grace, the virtue here is that she didn't poke him around with it, and didn't spread it around because she respects his feelings about the issue. How she knew about Alto's past isn't significant - it's how she handled it.

Edited June 22, 2008 by mike_s_6

[taksraven]

Episode 12 could have Kamjin in it and he might not be a clone. The preview seems to show him with an eye patch/eye implant over his right eye. Remember back in the last episode of Macross: SDF, Kamjin loss his right eye right before crashing his ship into the SDF-1.

Oh yeah. I forgot about that with his eye. Good thinking. But that would only open up a massive can of worms though.

How did he survive the crash of his ship and *MASSIVE* explosion?

How did he escape earth?

Whats he been doing for the last few decades and how come he reappears now?

All of these questions could be answered easily enough but in all honesty, a Kamjin return would deserve its own series or OAV surely, rather than just a side story in Frontier? Unless he is mixed up with the Vajra somehow.

If it was him it would be cool to see him at work in his officers pod again though.

Taksraven

[MisaForever]

Let's not forget the time line now. How much older would Kamjin and Breetai (I know, those aren't the right names ) be at this point? How do Zentrans age compared to humans? Wouldn't they look older since it's much further into the future now?

[Gubaba]

Let's not forget the time line now. How much older would Kamjin and Breetai (I know, those aren't the right names ) be at this point? How do Zentrans age compared to humans? Wouldn't they look older since it's much further into the future now?

How does Millia look in Mac7? I say pretty damn good.

But yeah, as I (subtly) tried to point out. Kamjin go bye-bye. Kerblooey. Explody. Nothing but but a fine layer of dust slowly coming to settle on the ground around the Macross...

[azrael]

Heck, even in DYRL?, Kamjin got several dozen holes put in him before he got blown into a thousand pieces when Roy's plan blew...

Frankly I'm surprised no one cried out for Millia when KK's red Q-Rea first showed up.

[info600]

Nevermind the fact that Kamjin lost his left eye and not the right one. Also his ship kinda blew up. I'd like to hope we're not at Gundam SEED levels of pilot survivability yet.

so why is he only show with his head then? (it's not 'the' Seed/Mwu thing)

[Gubaba]

so why is he only show with his head then? (it's not 'the' Seed/Mwu thing)

Because it was a split-second shot in the preview...?

And even if it was his head, we're supposed to believe that somehow, his head managed to avoid being damaged with a ship blowing up all around it, and that then the head found a way to get off the planet...?

It would be the Zentradi version of "They Saved Hitler's Brain." And NOBODY wants that...

[cyde01]

You might want to check the episode 8 thread, if you haven't already, to see what a kerfuffle started over a similar comment of yours...

Is it really that hard to write out japANESE...?

he probably already read it but decided to post jap anways, because he's an a$$.

[Gubaba]

he probably already read it but decided to post jap anways, because he's an a$$.

In the interest of keeping things here civil, I won't agree with you and add fuel to the fire.

Instead, I'll just comment on how astute you are and how quickly and comprehensively you can grasp complex situations.

IN GENERAL, of course...

[cyde01]

hah.. well if things are to remain civil i wish HE would not keep STARTING FIRES (yes i pmed him about it). and i know i'm not the only one he's pissed off in the forums because of his lack of courtesy.

but back on topic:

seems like there's been a lot of unsatisfied peeps over the episode but i enjoyed it a lot. people say the story hasn't advanced a lot but as far as the love triangle goes this was a pretty big advancement in my view. sheryl def scored a touchdown against ranka, although it seems like she's taken a hint from the patriots and is using some spygate tactics. and yeah there are still many secrets that are yet to be revealed but they have revealed some significant things. 1. grace is in fact brera's handler 2. leon and grace appear to not be on the same side, but on different sides that are at the moment allied together (not only did she share data of the vajra and vf-27, she gave a sample of the vf-27 to leon, which leon delivered to LAI, they also seem to be using sheryl as a pawn for their bidding) 3. there are in fact active rogue members within the UN, and leon and grace seem interested in confronting them. of course, we still have no idea how the vajra fit in to all this but i have confidence that the plot will keep progressing nicely.

[Gubaba]

I have to admit I'm a little worried about Frontier's political intrigue...how many sides do we have? How many are ACTUALLY allied and how many are merely temporary strange bedfellows? And most of all, is there any way to deal with all of this in a satisfactory way that ALSO leaves room for love stories, mecha porn, AND high school hijinx?

I'm beginning to wonder...

And I'm already starting to hope for "Macross F Encore", "Macross Dynamite F", and "Macross F: The Frontier is Deculturing Me"...

[stray]

And I'm already starting to hope for "Macross F Encore", "Macross Dynamite F", and "Macross F: The Frontier is Deculturing Me"...

Would it be culturing, or deculturing?

Either way that might be the best Macross title ever.

Although, I'm holding out for a cinematic re-imaging "Macross F: Do You Remember Nyan Nyan?"

[d3v]

How does Millia look in Mac7? I say pretty damn good.

But yeah, as I (subtly) tried to point out. Kamjin go bye-bye. Kerblooey. Explody. Nothing but but a fine layer of dust slowly coming to settle on the ground around the Macross...

Millia (and Max) is a genius (Jenius) and for them, age is simply a state of mind.

[Duke Togo]

We've seen a singing Valkyrie controlled by a guitar defeat giant space monsters, and we're debating how Kamjin could have survived a crash?

[Duke Togo]

Let's not forget the time line now. How much older would Kamjin and Breetai (I know, those aren't the right names ) be at this point? How do Zentrans age compared to humans? Wouldn't they look older since it's much further into the future now?

I was always under the assumption Zentradi did not age like us. I always assumed a good number of them were quite old.

[terry the lone wolf]

The return of the Backstabber would be outta sight! If they can make his re-appearance logical; I'm down. This show needs a real psychotic bad guy & Kamjin would fit the bill.

BTW, Zentradi's don't age...They're clones silly-billy!

Edited June 22, 2008 by terry the lone wolf

[Eaglearcher]

It could be just a flashback and not an actual appearance by Kamjin.

And so many boobies in this episode. A lot of boobies.

[Sulendil Ang]

And so many boobies in this episode. A lot of boobies.

And what you're complaining? Boobs are good for your mental health.

To be serious, fan services are always part of Macross franchise, and trust me, I know some non-hentai anime that shows more boobs than Macross Frontier.

[Max is a Genius]

Hmm how about he's just one of the many many clones of that serie (Khamjin serie I mean). I'm not an expert of genetics but judging by the way twins thend to have similar ideas and whatnot, it's fairly fair to assume clones will have similar views to the original. Now the only one clone of that serie we have seen wasn't too friendly with humans, why the other clones should be any difference ?

[Shaka_Z]

Hi everybody... long time lurker, first time poster here. I just HAD to say something about the survival of kamjin. I think that so long as *enough* of the individual survives to provide genetic material, Zentran cloning tech can get the job done. If the individual's brain survives (more the better) the new clone could potentially receive a fair portion of the original's memory and personality, even though the clone wouldn't necessarily be consciously aware of that fact. all that is required that the chemical layers that make up the original memory are still coherent enough to be read.

Ive come to the conclusion that Zentran (mi)cloning tech works alot like the jump cloning tech in EVE online - basically a clone is created, and the original donor is destroyed, during which time the entire 'data' contents of the brain are transmitted to the clone in such a way that the transition is effectively instantaneous - it would have to be. the principal differences are that zentran cloning is apparently limited in range to the clone chamber itself and that there can only ever be ONE copy/version of the individual in existence at a time (possibly due to issues with quantum entanglement or something similar), whereas in EVE the consciousness of the individual can be transferred over effectively any distance, and there can be a number of copies in existence simultaneously (although only one can be 'awake' at a time... all the sleepers are stored in cans ^^).

granted I am comparing tech from a game to tech from an anime here, but it makes sense.

[TehPW]

Hi everybody... long time lurker, first time poster here. I just HAD to say something about the survival of kamjin. I think that so long as *enough* of the individual survives to provide genetic material, Zentran cloning tech can get the job done. If the individual's brain survives (more the better) the new clone could potentially receive a fair portion of the original's memory and personality, even though the clone wouldn't necessarily be consciously aware of that fact. all that is required that the chemical layers that make up the original memory are still coherent enough to be read.

Ive come to the conclusion that Zentran (mi)cloning tech works alot like the jump cloning tech in EVE online - basically a clone is created, and the original donor is destroyed, during which time the entire 'data' contents of the brain are transmitted to the clone in such a way that the transition is effectively instantaneous - it would have to be. the principal differences are that zentran cloning is apparently limited in range to the clone chamber itself and that there can only ever be ONE copy/version of the individual in existence at a time (possibly due to issues with quantum entanglement or something similar), whereas in EVE the consciousness of the individual can be transferred over effectively any distance, and there can be a number of copies in existence simultaneously (although only one can be 'awake' at a time... all the sleepers are stored in cans ^^).

granted I am comparing tech from a game to tech from an anime here, but it makes sense.

Regardless, of who or how this Kamjin-Clone is to the story line, it's more proof that all isn't well in the Macross Universe...

but we're assuming the appaerent rebellion is martial in nature and not political. This could be much more...

or just a one shot to show some VF vs Zentran mecha action... even with the gender bending mecha...

[vanpang]

welcome shakaz, what took you so long to start your posts ? Hope you enjoy your stay here

I just hope that the ongoing Macross F would increase the existing Macross fan base further !

Anyway just want to mention this is another great episode Although lacking in mecha porn but great character development, Ranka has a lot of catching up to win Alto's heart. Luckily for Ranka, she has a very good friend like Nanase helping and supporting her. I am beginning to like Nanase more and more.

Edited June 22, 2008 by vanpang

[kanedaestes]

I love how for once the pilot isn't breaking his back trying to impress the girl. Everything is reverse now, everyone want's Alto's attention and are trying hard to please with for his birthday. Usually we get Hikaru trying to run to a bratty Minmei in the middle feeling bad because work got in the way of her birthday.