Seto Kaiba Posted September 16, 2010 Posted September 16, 2010 Some "need" the canon, other's don't. Granted... and I'm firmly in the camp of the those who do. IMO, having continuity between these stories whose settings are so distant from each other does a lot to help the universe feel bigger and more open. It's the same general sort of storytelling style I loved in Five Star Stories. Hence the origins of your comment... Not really, no... I don't really mind that Kawamori's taking that approach with the main timeline. It works pretty well for him, and gives him the freedom to experiment with new and different things without having to take the Gundam route of starting a half-dozen alternate universes. It just feels like an attempt to wiggle out of the tiny issue of which of his two depictions of Space War 1 is "right" and justify his playing pick-and-choose from both. Mac 7 had a Millia in a VF-1A painted like her old VF-1J and she wore Hikaru's flight suit, not the one she was seen in SDFM. Oddly... that appears to actually be an animation error in a few scenes. The line art and battroid mode scenes show it as a VF-1J with a minor color palette change. The flight suit she's wearing is actually a color-reversed version of the one she wore in Super Dimension Fortress Macross. Hikaru's had blue worked into it too.
Gui Posted September 16, 2010 Posted September 16, 2010 well, if SDFM and DYRL is a tv series and movie adaptation in the 'real' macross universe, I would like to think that Roy Focker's character is actually 'killed' for dramatic effect, while the REAL man himself is smirking at us while still doing black ops in deepest reachest of space....[...] I love this idea
Jedi Nazgul Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 Is it true that Shoji Kawamori said he has no interest to market Macross outside of Japan? because I was told by someone claiming to be a Macross fan at rt.com (rhade) that Kawamori said that and that's why we never get legit English subbed Macross movies. Something tells me that is nor correct because if that was true then I am sure Kawamori never would have came to a Macross convention here in the U.S. but it is strange that Macross can never get legit English subs when they know they sell pretty well here in the U.S. or does HG have a strangle hold on imports from BW to customers?
Gubaba Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 Is it true that Shoji Kawamori said he has no interest to market Macross outside of Japan? because I was told by someone claiming to be a Macross fan at rt.com (rhade) that Kawamori said that and that's why we never get legit English subbed Macross movies. I've never seen anything where he said that. Can Rhade provide the source?
Jedi Nazgul Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 (edited) I've never seen anything where he said that. Can Rhade provide the source? At a rt.com Macross movie thread (Southern Macrosspeada forum). Nothing other than that. But I should have known he was incorrect because he said "hiatus" means "fast production caused a slow down" or something like that. Edited September 20, 2010 by Jedi Nazgul
Gubaba Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 At a rt.com Macross movie thread (Southern Macrosspeada forum). Nothing other than that. But I should have known he was incorrect because he said "hiatus" means "fast production caused a slow down" or something like that. No, I mean can Rhade provide the source of the quote? I can't say definitively that Kawamori DIDN'T say that (although it seems unlikely), so I'd like some more information before saying "No, it's false." So if Rhade can tell you where he read the quote, that would be helpful.
Marzan Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 Is it true that Shoji Kawamori said he has no interest to market Macross outside of Japan? because I was told by someone claiming to be a Macross fan at rt.com (rhade) that Kawamori said that and that's why we never get legit English subbed Macross movies. Something tells me that is nor correct because if that was true then I am sure Kawamori never would have came to a Macross convention here in the U.S. but it is strange that Macross can never get legit English subs when they know they sell pretty well here in the U.S. or does HG have a strangle hold on imports from BW to customers? Even if he said it, it doesn't necessarily mean he actually means it. One could imagine that he is as frustrated by the legal impediments to Macross being marketed outside of Japan as any of us and might say that out of frustration. In any case, I don't think he had any problems with Macross Plus being marketed outside Japan nor some of his other stuff for that matter (Escaflowne, Arjuna, Aquarion). In any case what cannot be denied is that Macross can operate with just its Japanese base. It doesn't need to be marketed outside Japan for it to continue.
Zor Primus Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 (edited) No Destroid love in Frontier...watching the series now for the 3rd time. And from the first two episodes I noticed when the Vajra breached Island 1 the only ground units deployed were tanks...meh...what happened to the Destroids? I think if memory serves they only show up towards the end when the Vajra sprang from the eggs inside the ship and that was because most were "props" for the concert and had been marched during the "Victory Parade". This observation does not include Canaria's Monster Edited September 21, 2010 by Zor Primus
Mr March Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Hey, at least be thankful we got two new destroids out of Frontier (the Monster and Cheyenne II). It could have been worse, like the mockery they made of the original destroids for their tragic appearance in Macross 7
Lobizon Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 (edited) I think if memory serves they only show up towards the end when the Vajra sprang from the eggs inside the ship and that was because most were "props" for the concert and had been marched during the "Victory Parade". Don't forget about Macross Frontier episode #7, Destroid Cheyenne Mk II ( picture below ) its debut on Macross, like Mr March said. Edit: and the Destroid Work in MF episode #2, link courtesy Mr March's M3. Edited September 21, 2010 by Lobizon
Zor Primus Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 (edited) Don't forget about Macross Frontier episode #7, Destroid Cheyenne Mk II ( picture below ) its debut on Macross, like Mr March said. Edit: and the Destroid Work in MF episode #2, link courtesy Mr March's M3. Hehe...saw that ep (7) last night actually and was like doh! Edited September 22, 2010 by Zor Primus
Zinjo Posted September 27, 2010 Posted September 27, 2010 (edited) Even if he said it, it doesn't necessarily mean he actually means it. One could imagine that he is as frustrated by the legal impediments to Macross being marketed outside of Japan as any of us and might say that out of frustration. In any case, I don't think he had any problems with Macross Plus being marketed outside Japan nor some of his other stuff for that matter (Escaflowne, Arjuna, Aquarion). In any case what cannot be denied is that Macross can operate with just its Japanese base. It doesn't need to be marketed outside Japan for it to continue. Macross isn't "officially" marketed outside of Japan, but that doesn't stop it from being popular in foreign markets. Asia has seen it and purchase Macross merchandise. So, essentially there isn't a need to provide an English dub with countries like Korea and China helping to fill Bandai's pockets. The Western market is pretty small comparatively speaking. If the release and "international" version with Chinese, Korean and English subtitle tracks (dubs if they wish) and price it in line with foreign home video pricing, they could make a killing in direct foreign exports of the show. They just have to understand that what the market will bear in Japan, is not the same worldwide... Hell even RT can barely make a profit on its franchise, so the fact remains that the Western market is small and not really as lucrative as it once was. What Big West needs to focus on is convincing sponsors to sell internationally through sites like Amazon.jp and Hobbylink Japan, with international pricing in mind. There is extra money to be made in foreign markets, they just have think creatively when it comes to logistics... Edited September 27, 2010 by Zinjo
frothymug Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 I've wondered this since I first saw MacF, but what the hell is that red tag thingy that Alto wears around his neck? Is that a representation of his birthright, or something?
azrael Posted October 8, 2010 Author Posted October 8, 2010 I've wondered this since I first saw MacF, but what the hell is that red tag thingy that Alto wears around his neck? Is that a representation of his birthright, or something? IIRC, it's an omamori.
frothymug Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 (edited) Okay, so I had to look up what an omamori is. Why does it seem to be so important to Alto? Edited October 8, 2010 by frothymug
Seto Kaiba Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 Okay, so I had to look up what an omamori is. Why does it seem to be so important to Alto? IIRC, wasn't it given to him by his mother?
sketchley Posted October 9, 2010 Posted October 9, 2010 Okay, so I had to look up what an omamori is. Why does it seem to be so important to Alto? Because it's a luck charm that protects him from things like bad luck and evil spirits?
frothymug Posted October 9, 2010 Posted October 9, 2010 He must be a very superstitious guy then. I didn't see anything else that he did to show any kinds of superstitions that he holds, though. I just figured it had some kind of true importance to him.
Gubaba Posted October 9, 2010 Posted October 9, 2010 He must be a very superstitious guy then. I didn't see anything else that he did to show any kinds of superstitions that he holds, though. I just figured it had some kind of true importance to him. Yeah...a gift from his dead mother...why would anyone be attached to something like that?
frothymug Posted October 9, 2010 Posted October 9, 2010 See, you guys are purposely confusing me, aren't you?! IIRC, wasn't it given to him by his mother? Sounds like he's not sure if this is true or not. Because it's a luck charm that protects him from things like bad luck and evil spirits? So, it's just a normal omamori, then? Yeah...a gift from his dead mother...why would anyone be attached to something like that? Wait, so it WAS given to him by his mother? Where did that get explained? See? Where are the straight answers!
Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 (edited) In regards to the VB-6 What is the point of the Destroid/ Battroid mode? Shuttle and gerwalk make sense to me. thanks Edited October 16, 2010 by Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX
jenius Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 What is the point of destroid/battroid mode of any vehicle? It probably boils down to the extra dexterity of the hands for close quarters operations... like lifting heavy items or throwing a punch/pushing something.
Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX Posted October 16, 2010 Posted October 16, 2010 What is the point of destroid/battroid mode of any vehicle? It probably boils down to the extra dexterity of the hands for close quarters operations... like lifting heavy items or throwing a punch/pushing something. Battroid used to be for fighting giant aliens in close quarters battle. VB-6 seems a little to large/ slow for this role. Lifting things makes sense, but why not hands like in ZERO then (in addition to rocket launchers)? IMO Gerwalk mode has the least application when it comes to Valkyries.
Seto Kaiba Posted October 17, 2010 Posted October 17, 2010 (edited) What is the point of the Destroid/ Battroid mode? Shuttle and gerwalk make sense to me. Your guess is as good as mine... the reasons for having the other two modes are fairly self-evident. Upon due examination of the VB-6 König Monster's few appearances in canon Macross, the best I can conclude is that it's probably there primarily to make the mecha somewhat less cumbersome when it's defending itself from smaller mecha, since at least the upgraded VB-6 König Monster has demonstrated that it has some kind of gun system mounted on the arms in battroid mode. For reasons unknown, the guns don't show up in the art for Canaria's VB-6 in the Macross Frontier series, but she's shown using guns in the mecha's forearms defensively during the final episode. The trailer for the second movie, Macross Frontier: the Wings of Goodbye, shows a VB-6 equipped with what appears to be a pair of 30mm rotary cannons off the Cheyenne II instead of hands. I apologize for the large size of this screen capture, but it's in 1080p and I don't have Photoshop on this machine: Lifting things makes sense, but why not hands like in ZERO then (in addition to rocket launchers)? That's exactly the kind of arrangement it has... though it's easier to spot on the original line art rather than the CG model. You can clearly see on the color-coded transformation guide that, just as on the Cheyenne series of destroids, the König Monster keeps its hands on the back side of its weapon arms. IMO Gerwalk mode has the least application when it comes to Valkyries. It has its uses... but it wasn't originally part of the design (from an in-universe standpoint). It was an accidental discovery and was made a feature because it had a few uses... Edited October 17, 2010 by Seto Kaiba
Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX Posted October 17, 2010 Posted October 17, 2010 Your knowledge impresses as always Seto. In regards to the hands, I am aware VB-6 has hands in battroid/destroid mode, what I meant was why not just give it some hands for Gerwalk mode instead of a whole new transformation (like Zero, but keep the rockets too). Anyway, I guess at some point you just have to say "because it is Macross" and giant robots are awesome. BTW, Does anyone else think that giant gattling guns on the arms of a VB-6 is freakin awesome?
Seto Kaiba Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 In regards to the hands, I am aware VB-6 has hands in battroid/destroid mode, what I meant was why not just give it some hands for Gerwalk mode instead of a whole new transformation (like Zero, but keep the rockets too). Huh... from an in-universe standpoint, that's a pretty good question. By the look of things, the reason that they gave the Mk.I version of the Monster a set of vaguely creepy hands was to provide it with the necessary stability to operate as carrier-mounted artillery and make fine adjustments to its firing position. That ability ended up on the chopping block in favor of beefing up the mecha's long-range armaments, and presumably the infinitely more mobile and nimble König Monster just doesn't need that extra support. Having hands on the same side as their missile launch tubes would probably necessitate a very awkward and unintuitive mounting for the hands, or the enlarging of the weapon arms themselves. There was already empty space on the back of the weapon arms, so waste not want not... it seems almost ideal for mounting a hand, since long-range anti-ship missiles aren't going to be much use against the same fast-moving targets the pilot would be shooting at with his/her AA guns. If we examine it from a production standpoint, the answer becomes immediately obvious... they made the König Monster first. Kawamori designed the VB-6 König Monster for Macross VF-X2, a game that came out for the Sony Playstation in 1999. Macross Zero didn't come out until about three years later, and presumably Kawamori didn't see any point in messing with a completed design when he was already tweaking several existing ones for use in Macross Frontier. Does anyone else think that giant gattling guns on the arms of a VB-6 is freakin awesome? After seeing it in the movie trailer at the end of Macross Frontier: Itsuwari no Utahime for the first time, my initial thought was "another fine customization by the Orkish Commission for More Dakka".
Robelwell202 Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 Okay... I've already had a private debate with Seto on this machine, but I might as well make my thoughts part of the debate... While I can see the aspect of a re-used wireframe from teh Cheyenne, I can't really see how the rotary guns on the improved VB-6 as the same size as the Cheyenne-2's. There's just a simple problem with scale. For me, it would be logical to think they're more like 50mm or larger... And, like I said in the debate with Seto, I could be wrong... Just my thoughts, so feel free to tear 'em up.
Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 After seeing it in the movie trailer at the end of Macross Frontier: Itsuwari no Utahime for the first time, my initial thought was "another fine customization by the Orkish Commission for More Dakka". I am completely unfamiliar with this reference. more info please, I am interested.
Lobizon Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 I am completely unfamiliar with this reference. more info please, I am interested. Dakkadakkadakka!
Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Dakkadakkadakka! Ah. I see. VB-6 doesn't seem too excessive unlike the Orc in the link. No more excessive then the Cheyenne at least. Better then a pair of useless hands IMO. Unless in the movie they show us some VB-6 CQB fighting in battroid, that perhaps could change my mind.
Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 This is going to sound like a stupid question, but here we go anyway... How is the city distributed inside the SDF-1? The impending release of the 1/3000 yamato got me thinking about this as its leg apparently opens up for some detail of the city. Is it all in the leg? Both legs? Does it creep up into the torso. Naturally I know that none would be in the arms. does someone have a "map" of the SDF-1 maybe from chronicle? lotsa stuff, sorry thanks
Seto Kaiba Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 Ah. I see. VB-6 doesn't seem too excessive unlike the Orc in the link. No more excessive then the Cheyenne at least. I know... it was a joke. Just about any upgrade that increases firepower can be labeled an application of "more dakka". Better then a pair of useless hands IMO. Unless in the movie they show us some VB-6 CQB fighting in battroid, that perhaps could change my mind. It's been a while, but I believe they did something to that effect in Macross VF-X2, where the VB-6 is originally from. How is the city distributed inside the SDF-1? [...] Is it all in the leg? Both legs? Does it creep up into the torso. does someone have a "map" of the SDF-1 maybe from chronicle? Just based on the existing animation and line art from Super Dimension Fortress Macross and Macross: Do You Remember Love?, the city is spread out through the ship's "torso" and "legs". Macross Chronicle WorldGuide sheet 15 supports this notion as well. There are top-down maps of part of the city from the Super Dimension Fortress Macross series, but they don't show its orientation inside the ship. The line art and animation of the series and movie shows the parts of the city inside the ship's torso are arranged in layers... up to four layers deep in places, and the areas inside the legs are somewhat more open... though their ability to manipulate gravity meant they didn't necessarily have to stick to just horizontal surfaces for building. Line art showing the orientation of the city components inside the "leg" of the movie variant of the Macross is available on the DYRL SDF-1 Macross page on the Macross Mecha Manual.
Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) Thanks for the fast response and great info. Now I am going to have to look up the scene in the vf-x game where the VB-6 does some CQB. Edited October 20, 2010 by Xx-SKULL-ONE-xX
Zor Primus Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 I have the song What 'bout my star? stuck in my head all day! What do I do???
Gubaba Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I have the song What 'bout my star? stuck in my head all day! What do I do??? Enjoy the ride, man.
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