Newbie Questions on Macross

[sketchley]

I recall there was mention of a factory at a lagrange point manufacturing ARMDs and Oberths... but were concrete facts ever given about Earth's orbital assets? And how did they survive without being obliterated by the Zentreadi? (unless they started with the planet first?)

They were "next on the list". My opinion is that the Zentraadi attacked the biggest potential threat - the Earth, first, and were planning to attack orbitals (Lagrange Points, Colony Clusters) and the moon, next.

Here's a list of all the stuff I could find in and around Earth orbit (note: pre-Macross Chronicle information). Canon info in green: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchley/Locations/Earth.htm#EarthOrbit

[Zinjo]

I kind of agree there and suspect Kawamori won't touch does characters again, they are mythical of sorts.

EXACTLY!

Can you say "Midichlorians"?

As soon as you show or explain a mystic power, myth or legend, they loose their power and relevance. Happy Days gave us "Jumping the Shark" and Lucas gave us "Midichlorians" (he also gave us "nuking the fridge", but it really hasn't caught on...). So to tell the story of the Megaroad 01 would kill its legend and make it irrelevant. The same goes for showing any surviving Protoculture. To reveal them directly would destroy their enigma and the power of their legacy.

Still there's explanations for many other events in the macross universe but not for this event and on the other hand a redoing of any stuff from the original series SDF Macross could be made around this story and creat distance from the Gold company.

On another note as the stories have been progressing, the push to the galaxy core is more and more clear so in a simple sense some sort of back ground context explanation would be kind of expected.

Agreed that a reboot would clear the animation from the dark forces of HG, however if your going to paint the Mona Lisa with modern paints, you don't add what wasn't there already!

What can be expected at the galactic core? Well if one were to follow logical extrapolations, then the fleets would find more evidence of the Protoculture civilization, in the form of ruins and such. The core will have star systems much closer together and if the PC were a race that started out in that vicinity of the galaxy, they'd have plenty of planets to colonize before venturing out into the rim systems like Zola. Earth was a speed bump on a survey fleet's travels back in the day.

There would also be a lot more graphic evidence of the Civil and Protodevlin wars in that area, not to mention a likely higher concentration of Zentradi and possibly Supervision Army forces there.

As for the Zentradi being "belligerent" toward humanity, that really wasn't the case until the Macross attacked the Zentradi fleet. Then when it became clear that humanity possessed the long lost "Reaction" weaponry, then they Zentradi went on the hunt to capture the ship. It wasn't until Bodolza ordered Earth destroyed that the attitude toward the race changed. Essentially we were flies to the Zentradi, and we needed to be swatted as pests.

[Zinjo]

They were "next on the list". My opinion is that the Zentraadi attacked the biggest potential threat - the Earth, first, and were planning to attack orbitals (Lagrange Points, Colony Clusters) and the moon, next.

Here's a list of all the stuff I could find in and around Earth orbit (note: pre-Macross Chronicle information). Canon info in green: http://www.macrossro....htm#EarthOrbit

I agree with sketchley.

Did the Germans blitzkrieg the farmhouses and factories on their way through Poland? No! They attacked the military threats.

It's conceivable that had the Zentradi won the war, that the orbital facilities would have been left alone, if they didn't attack. Humanity was not the enemy of the Zentradi until Bodolza ordered it so. Had the Zentradi successfully wiped out the orbital fleet and the Macross, I would suspect they'd have gone on their merry way, looking for more SA ships to attack.

[falks]

Agreed that a reboot would clear the animation from the dark forces of HG, however if your going to paint the Mona Lisa with modern paints, you don't add what wasn't there already!

What can be expected at the galactic core? Well if one were to follow logical extrapolations, then the fleets would find more evidence of the Protoculture civilization, in the form of ruins and such. The core will have star systems much closer together and if the PC were a race that started out in that vicinity of the galaxy, they'd have plenty of planets to colonize before venturing out into the rim systems like Zola. Earth was a speed bump on a survey fleet's travels back in the day.

There would also be a lot more graphic evidence of the Civil and Protodevlin wars in that area, not to mention a likely higher concentration of Zentradi and possibly Supervision Army forces there.

As for the Zentradi being "belligerent" toward humanity, that really wasn't the case until the Macross attacked the Zentradi fleet. Then when it became clear that humanity possessed the long lost "Reaction" weaponry, then they Zentradi went on the hunt to capture the ship. It wasn't until Bodolza ordered Earth destroyed that the attitude toward the race changed. Essentially we were flies to the Zentradi, and we needed to be swatted as pests.

I'm kinda of following the reasoning behind the "homeworld" universe here, and yes as one gets close to the core there's more worlds and in this universe more Protoculture remains, and also yes more Supervision army presence.

These could provide great plots for story telling, perhaps a little better the Vajra bugs, kinda like the Zentradi were great antagonists to us, being without culture and all, still they were more elaborite and complex then the Vajra.

The reboot would have to be a little complex, it would have to retell the story in the different blending, but as we already have that in DYRL its not impossable. I would only prefer a more Zero style story then a Frontier one, more mature.

Or it could be something along the lines of Zero proper, with some original characters and a side story but with sequence to the original SDF Macross, introducing the new age of exploration and colonization.

[Seto Kaiba]

It's conceivable that had the Zentradi won the war, that the orbital facilities would have been left alone, if they didn't attack. Humanity was not the enemy of the Zentradi until Bodolza ordered it so. Had the Zentradi successfully wiped out the orbital fleet and the Macross, I would suspect they'd have gone on their merry way, looking for more SA ships to attack.

Indeed... that's certainly plausible. It's also possible that the Zentradi, fixated as they were on destroying Earth's surface, completely overlooked relatively small installations like the L-5 manufacturing station, the space colonies, and Apollo Base. After all, the Zentradi are used to dealing with space stations the which could easily fall into the "small moon" category, and something as insignificant as an Island-3 colony cylinder might slip by unnoticed since it'd neither shot at them nor attempted to move under its own power.

[yui1107]

Now I 've been writting Japanese livedoor Wiki "List_of_companies_in_Macross" with logomark images.

Any one who you know"Shinsei-Industries" and "General-Galaxy" Aero-spacecorporation's logomark design?

<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_in_Macross">List of companies in Macross</A>

<A HREF="http://wiki.livedoor.jp/ebatan3/d/%A5%ED%A5%DC%A5%C6%A5%C3%A5%AF%A1%A6%A5%B7%A5%EA%A1%BC%A5%BA%A4%CB%C5%D0%BE%EC%A4%B9%A4%EB%B4%EB%B6%C8%B0%EC%CD%F7>List of companies in Macross"(Japanese livedoor Wiki)</A>

[Seto Kaiba]

Now I 've been writting Japanese livedoor Wiki "List_of_companies_in_Macross" with logomark images.

Any one who you know"Shinsei-Industries" and "General-Galaxy" Aero-spacecorporation's logomark design?

Eh... as far as I'm aware, at no point has an official logo for Shinsei Industry or General Galaxy appeared in any unambiguously canon source or publication. That said, there is a small graphic of what a Shinsei Industry logo found on page 119 of the Variable Fighter Master File: VF-19 Excalibur. Considering the source, there's no real guarantee that it's official or in any way accurate, but at least it's something. The only other source of unofficial logos for fictional Macross companies I'm aware of is a model kit water-slide decal sheet for the unambiguously non-canon VF-19ES "Mystery Ship II"... an unofficial customization of the VF-19 dreamed up for an old issue of Model Graphix magazine.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Lobizon]

Any one who you know"Shinsei-Industries" and "General-Galaxy" Aero-spacecorporation's logomark design?

I think Guld has the General-Galaxy logo on his uniform, are two concentric G's, picture below.

[Talos]

Now I 've been writting Japanese livedoor Wiki "List_of_companies_in_Macross" with logomark images.

Any one who you know"Shinsei-Industries" and "General-Galaxy" Aero-spacecorporation's logomark design?

<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_in_Macross">List of companies in Macross</A>

<A HREF="http://wiki.livedoor.jp/ebatan3/d/%A5%ED%A5%DC%A5%C6%A5%C3%A5%AF%A1%A6%A5%B7%A5%EA%A1%BC%A5%BA%A4%CB%C5%D0%BE%EC%A4%B9%A4%EB%B4%EB%B6%C8%B0%EC%CD%F7>List of companies in Macross"(Japanese livedoor Wiki)</A>

hellohikaru here drew the Double-G General Galaxy logo that you see on Guld in the above screenshot. I think he did the Shinsei one you can see on some of the YF-19 techs in the same show too, but I'm not sure. I would send him a PM.

[hellohikaru]

Well here are the logos as mentioned by Talos. Totally speculative and based on artist interpretation. GG logo loosely based on an existing logo found here..

[yui1107]

Well here are the logos as mentioned by Talos. Totally speculative and based on artist interpretation. GG logo loosely based on an existing logo found here..

Nakajima_Aircraft_Engine Co.Ltd. ,since 2014 Nakajima_Aerospace_Engine Co.Ltd.

In the world of that place, the Nakashima airplane is not dismantled, and it is it in the company which I pull the body from body development by an order of GHQ and specialized in an engine!

He will be surely pleased with RAIZO-NAKAJIMA of Macross Zero in the shadow of the blade of grass.

Because I can obtain PNG DATA without the image deterioration in a connection of a certain person, I write an article by the end of this evening.

Edited September 6, 2010 by yui1107

[Zinjo]

Nakajima_Aircraft_Engine Co.Ltd. ,since 2014 Nakajima_Aerospace_Engine Co.Ltd.

In the world of that place, the Nakashima airplane is not dismantled, and it is it in the company which I pull the body from body development by an order of GHQ and specialized in an engine!

He will be surely pleased with RAIZO-NAKAJIMA of Macross Zero in the shadow of the blade of grass.

Because I can obtain PNG DATA without the image deterioration in a connection of a certain person, I write an article by the end of this evening.

So is the web address of that forum correct?

http://w.livedoor.jp/harmony-gold_japan

That's a chilling thought...

[sketchley]

So is the web address of that forum correct?

http://w.livedoor.jp/harmony-gold_japan

That's a chilling thought...

Only if you're looking for information on Robotech. The blog is called "Robotech Chronicles" BTW, and there is English in it: "Veritech", etc..

[Zor Primus]

Question...did they add elven ears to Zentraedi for flare in MF? Don't remember seeing them before then.

[TheLoneWolf]

Zentradi "elf" ears have appeared before. But when exactly they started to appear, I don't know.

[Zor Primus]

Zentradi "elf" ears have appeared before. But when exactly they started to appear, I don't know.

Hmmm...from the pic I'm assuming Macross 7? Its been years since I saw it so guess I'll have to dig up the ole VHS lolz...

Suppose its a bit of a mystery then where they came from, kinda like the Klingon's lumped foreheads. Never seen until after the original show.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Zor Primus

[azrael]

Hmmm...from the pic I'm assuming Macross 7? Its been years since I saw it so guess I'll have to dig up the ole VHS lolz...

Suppose its a bit of a mystery then where they came from, kinda like the Klingon's lumped foreheads. Never seen until after the original show.

They appeared starting in DYRL?.

[Lobizon]

They appeared starting in DYRL?.

Yep!

Edit: Since then, DYRL? is the visual canon for all the franchise.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Lobizon

[Seto Kaiba]

Edit: Since then, DYRL? is the visual canon for all the franchise.

Eh... that's a bit of an oversimplification.

In practice, the creators of Macross don't seem to follow any clearly defined rationale when it comes to the use of designs from the original Macross series and the DYRL? movie. True, there seems to be a pretty clear trend in the use of the DYRL Zentradi (and "Meltrandi") designs in subsequent Macross shows, but the movie designs haven't completely supplanted the TV series ones. For example, during the filming of the in-series docu-drama "The Lynn Minmay Story", the actors playing Britai and Kamjin are dressed as movie Britai and TV series Kamjin respectively. Likewise, the flightsuit Milia uses whenever she sorties in Macross 7 is a holdover from the TV series as well. IIRC her VF-1J also had the "Block 5" hands from the TV series. Also, in Macross Frontier we see the 33rd Marines use a mixture of TV series and DYRL body armor. Etc. etc.

[Lobizon]

Point taken, was a bad choice of words, but like you said above DYRL? is a clear visual trend in subsequent Macross shows.

Likewise, the flightsuit Milia uses whenever she sorties in Macross 7 is a holdover from the TV series as well. IIRC her VF-1J also had the "Block 5" hands from the TV series.

Btw, the Macross 7 omake you are talking about is " Milia The President "

Edited September 15, 2010 by Lobizon

[Seto Kaiba]

Point taken, was a bad choice of words, but like you said above DYRL? is a clear visual trend in subsequent Macross shows.

True... as I said, there is a marked trend towards favoring the designs from DYRL in subsequent Macross shows, particularly where the Zentradi are concerned. The really fun twist that completely screws the whole thing up is that the chronology of the universe itself seems to go the other way... favoring the version of events shown in Super Dimension Fortress Macross over those in DYRL. It's probably best to try the "A Wizard did it!" approach and blame everything on the Protoculture. After all, they're not around to refute it.

Btw, the Macross 7 omake you are talking about is " Milia The President "

No... I'm talkin' about the entirety of the Macross 7 series, not just the Macross 7 PLUS "Milia the President" omake. In the course of the series, Milia flies her old VF-1J on several occasions... and the animation clearly shows it has the "Block 5" style hands from the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross VF-1 design. The flightsuit Milia wore in the Macross 7 TV series is the same model she used in the original Macross TV series, only with the colors reversed and without the "buckle" on the waist. You can see both quite clearly in ep13-14.

EDIT: Images courtesy of the MacrossWorld main page art section and Sketchley's Macross Gateway.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Lobizon]

No... I'm talkin' about the entirety of the Macross 7 series, not just the Macross 7 PLUS "Milia the President" omake. In the course of the series, Milia flies her old VF-1J on several occasions... and the animation clearly shows it has the "Block 5" style hands from the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross VF-1 design.

True... my bad, the VF in Macross 7 PLUS "Milia the President" omake was a "VF-1A" ( picture below ) you know was long time ago saw Macross 7, maybe this weekend I'll rewatch it again.

[Gubaba]

True... my bad, the VF in Macross 7 PLUS "Milia the President" omake was a "VF-1A" ( picture below ) you know was long time ago saw Macross 7, maybe this weekend I'll rewatch it again.

Watching all of Macross 7 in such a concentrated dose is hazardous to your health.

Unless you're Keith, that is, but he's addicted to the stuff.

[sketchley]

Watching all of Macross 7 in such a concentrated dose is hazardous to your health.

Unless you're Keith, that is, but he's addicted to the stuff.

Agreed. At the most, one episode per night.

[Lobizon]

Watching all of Macross 7 in such a concentrated dose is hazardous to your health.

ORE NO UTA WO KIIKE!!

[Seto Kaiba]

True... my bad, the VF in Macross 7 PLUS "Milia the President" omake was a "VF-1A" ( picture below ) you know was long time ago saw Macross 7, maybe this weekend I'll rewatch it again.

Huh... y'know, I never noticed that before. Good eye!

[Zor Primus]

Watching all of Macross 7 in such a concentrated dose is hazardous to your health.

So true Gubaba

Thanks for clarifying the ear question...with regards to the styles of the shows taking a more DYRL look I have a thought.

I was told once that DYRL was the "Pearl Harbor, Saving Private Ryan movie" for those living in the SDFM universe...so taking that into account and looking at some of our own real life military "looks" can we say that the influence of a more flashy or techie look seen in a movie simply became a reality.

I give the example of movies like Universal Soldier or Aliens the armor and head cam units and uniforms back when those movies came out seemed far out or not real. Now lets take a look at any modern soldier and they have all the gadgets and toys seen in the aforementioned movies. Uniform designs also have evolved from what we thought was fiction into reality. Can the same be said in the Macross universe?

Edited September 15, 2010 by Zor Primus

[TheLoneWolf]

Both SDF Macross and Macross DYRL are the "Band of Brothers" and "Saving Private Ryan" of Space War I. Like DYRL, SDF Macross is also a dramatization of Space War I. While DYRL debuted in 2031 in the Macross universe, Shoji Kawamori hasn't given us a broadcast date for SDF Macross in the Macross universe.

So what did the military really look like in Space War I? Nobody knows for sure.

See this very informative Kawamori translation from Renato.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=30317&view=findpost&p=760765

[Zor Primus]

Both SDF Macross and Macross DYRL are the "Band of Brothers" and "Saving Private Ryan" of Space War I. Like DYRL, SDF Macross is also a dramatization of Space War I. While DYRL debuted in 2031 in the Macross universe, Shoji Kawamori hasn't given us a broadcast date for SDF Macross in the Macross universe.

So what did the military really look like in Space War I? Nobody knows for sure.

See this very informative Kawamori translation from Renato.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=30317&view=findpost&p=760765

Wow...if there was any confusion before, its now tripled... So in his words, all the series/movies were acts of fiction, none truly representing "what really happened"...I think I literally heard a few neurons pop with that one.

[sketchley]

Wow...if there was any confusion before, its now tripled... So in his words, all the series/movies were acts of fiction, none truly representing "what really happened"...I think I literally heard a few neurons pop with that one.

Yup, and from the creator himself, no less.

[Gubaba]

Wow...if there was any confusion before, its now tripled... So in his words, all the series/movies were acts of fiction, none truly representing "what really happened"...I think I literally heard a few neurons pop with that one.

I've found the best way to deal with it is to realize that continuity is not much on the creators' minds, and shouldn't be much on yours, either.

[David Hingtgen]

Makes perfect sense to me, especially regarding the actors.

History: SDF:M comes out as a dramatic retelling of Space War 1, and is a big hit. They decide to make a movie version. They hire the same actors even, but up the budget to have better uniforms etc. And of course, they condense the story and "make it more exciting".

Currently, I view EVERY series as a comedic drama or something. M7? That's the STORY of Basara, not a documentary. Note the excessive use of stock footage. It also easily explains Mylene's pink hair---they just hired a young cute actress, they didn't really care that her hair didn't match that of Max and Milia's ACTORS. (The real Milia could be ugly, actually---Max fell in love with her over her flying abilities, after all--but of course they'd hire an attractive actress to play her...)

[Seto Kaiba]

Wow...if there was any confusion before, its now tripled... So in his words, all the series/movies were acts of fiction, none truly representing "what really happened"...I think I literally heard a few neurons pop with that one.

Eh... really, this is what's known as a "massive cop-out". It's a great way to handwave aside the little technology and pop culture inconsistencies in Macross (e.g. Michael's big goofy 90's cell phone), but it doesn't really help the fans much... especially with stuff like Macross Chronicle providing a continuity for the universe and examples of a continuity in the show itself. To the casual viewer of any given Macross show, continuity matters little or not at all, so it's all gravy either way.

EDIT: Mind you, I still prefer the more straightforward approach that was taken in Macross II... the TV series never happened, DYRL is Space War 1 as it actually happened, etc.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[boyarque]

well, if SDFM and DYRL is a tv series and movie adaptation in the 'real' macross universe, I would like to think that Roy Focker's character is actually 'killed' for dramatic effect, while the REAL man himself is smirking at us while still doing black ops in deepest reachest of space....hmm, kinda open up for a whole new show....

[Zinjo]

Eh... really, this is what's known as a "massive cop-out". It's a great way to handwave aside the little technology and pop culture inconsistencies in Macross (e.g. Michael's big goofy 90's cell phone), but it doesn't really help the fans much... especially with stuff like Macross Chronicle providing a continuity for the universe and examples of a continuity in the show itself. To the casual viewer of any given Macross show, continuity matters little or not at all, so it's all gravy either way.

Some "need" the canon, other's don't.

I prefer to take the "macro" events of SDFM as canon history, but the details of exactly how and what happened to be open to interpretation. WW 1 and WW2 had thousands of "true" stories that happened, but historically both wars are broken down by notable dates and major battles.

Thousands of films, books, TV shows, etc have been done about both wars, all with some sort of dramatic treatments. Yet we enjoy them nonetheless.

EDIT: Mind you, I still prefer the more straightforward approach that was taken in Macross II... the TV series never happened, DYRL is Space War 1 as it actually happened, etc.

Hence the origins of your

"massive cop-out"

comment...

I recall, when asked about the aesthetic differences between SDFM and DYRL, Kawamori answered that DYRL was the preferred visual look of Macross, while SDF was the story. Over time the looks have melded. Mac 7 had a Millia in a VF-1A painted like her old VF-1J and she wore Hikaru's flight suit, not the one she was seen in SDFM. Mac F featured elements of both and the "story" of SDFM has become less rigidly "canon" over time... To which I say "thank God" when I look at the ideas introduced in Mac 7!