Newbie Questions on Macross

[frothymug]

I dunno if this is a robotech source or not, but I seem to have the notion that only the Gnerl and Queadluun-Rau were adopted by the UN Spacy. You might count the Glaug as well, since a Variable version was created around the time of VF:X (though whether it persisted or not is another question... what do full-sized Zentradi male forces use for combat?)

Though that's a thing about the V-Glaug... The Macross mecha manual states accommodation for a child Zentradi? Wouldn't it be issued to full-sized adults instead?

It's understood that in the time of Frontier, male Zentrans use Queadluun-Rheas, since they are obviously superior to the Nousjadeul-Ger power armor.

The Variable Glaug was what Moaramia Jifon piloted when Max and Milia encountered her during one of their missions. I'm not sure why they'd restrict the cockpit to a full-sized Zentran child, but perhaps it was due to the lack of space in the craft's design. ...or it could just say that because Moaramia is the only notable character who pilots one and she just happened to be a Zentraedi child. They did make a variable Glaug that can accomodate a miclone-sized pilot as well...

[RedWolf]

You might count the Glaug as well, since a Variable version was created around the time of VF:X (though whether it persisted or not is another question... what do full-sized Zentradi male forces use for combat?)

Though that's a thing about the V-Glaug... The Macross mecha manual states accommodation for a child Zentradi? Wouldn't it be issued to full-sized adults instead?

Correction that is Macross M3.

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2018

# M3 Episode 2 Dancing Tightrope

* [Annihilation] Battle of New Nile Weaponry Base

o The Dancing Skull special forces team assaults the New Nile weaponry base and encounter a Zentradi Variable Glaug on the planet Cristrania.

The pilot of the Variable Glaug was Moaramia Jifon a natural born giant six year old Zentradi ace calling herself the Zentradi Fighting Star. In short she is child soldier. Moaramia also known by the nickname Moa is only a year younger than Komilia, Max and Millia's eldest daughter. In the game Max or Millia shoots down Moa and adopts her in miclone size. Taking the name Moaramia Fallayna Jenius. She is considered the eighth Jenius daughter, the rest Millia gave birth to.

In her teens Moa joins Max and Milia's old team Dancing Skull as Purple Skull. In the Kawamori/Studio Nue timeline she is the only known Jenius daughter to join the military. Retcon wise this explains why she was not present around when Mylene was born in 2031.

So in terms of the rebel Zentradi version of the Variable Glaug Moaramia is the exception rather than the norm. There is a UN Spacy version of the Variable Glaug for miclone size pilots.

Kawamori took his Neo Glaug design for the Macross Plus game and redesigned it as the Varaible Glaugs (Zentradi and UN Spacy versions) for Macross M3. Difference between them is that the Neo Glaug is an automated combat craft like the Ghost with a fighter mode and Glaug mode while the Variable Glaug has a fighter mode, Glaug mode and a battroid mode.

[Seto Kaiba]

Has an upgraded/reverse engineered workhorse Regult tactical pod ever appeared anywhere in the main continuity?

Other than the "Stealth Regult" seen in Macross Digital Mission VF-X, I don't think that there are any upgraded Regult versions in the main continuity. Macross II and its parallel world continuity do offer some such designs... though not so much "upgraded" models as simply a different unit produced by a different factory satellite... the examples being the Mardook versions of the Regult (which is legless and gets around in atmosphere with a small gravity control system), and the Nousjadeul-Ger (which has a set of engines similar to those of the Queadluun-Rau), and the Neld and Burado fleet's versions of the powered suits and Glaug with different weapons setups and the like.

Is the whole lineage considered obsolete? Zentran forces, even renegades, seem to use just mostly Queadlunn variants out of the original Zentradi arsenal anymore.

Is it really any surprise? The U.N. Spacy puts a great deal of emphasis on operator survivability in their mecha, a concept that's the polar opposite of the usual Zentradi expendable clone soldier tactics. Aside from the renegade power suit from Macross Plus, it does look like the only unit the U.N. chose to improve was the Queadluun series powered suits. Obviously the uncultured Zentradi military forces are still using the tech they've had for aeons.

I dunno if this is a robotech source or not, but I seem to have the notion that only the Gnerl and Queadluun-Rau were adopted by the UN Spacy. You might count the Glaug as well, since a Variable version was created around the time of VF:X (though whether it persisted or not is another question... what do full-sized Zentradi male forces use for combat?)

I'm not aware of anything that says that the U.N. continued to use the Gnerl fighter pod after the war. The Variable Glaug is a notable exception to the U.N.'s general preference for their own technology, since they did go out of their way to produce a version of it that sported a miclone cockpit, which features prominently in Macross M3 as the primary fighter of adopted Jenius sister Moaramia Jifon.

As seen in Macross Frontier, the Zentradi males serving in the U.N. Marines use the Queadluun-Rhea, which is several decades newer than the Variable Glaug by that point (the designation would make it a very recent design, circa 2056).

Though that's a thing about the V-Glaug... The Macross mecha manual states accommodation for a child Zentradi? Wouldn't it be issued to full-sized adults instead?

There's a reason for that... the exemplar initially encountered was a Zentradi-produced prototype of a transformable Roiquonmi Glaug operated by Moaramia Jifon, who was only 6 years old at the time. Presumably the mass-production model would've had a cockpit laid out for use by a normally proportioned adult. The U.N. developed their own version, and fitted it with a normal VF cockpit suitable for miclones, which was later also piloted by Moaramia Jifon once she was a teenager.

[frothymug]

Seto, do you have any actual firm dates for the development and release of the Queadluun Rhea? I know that there is information that discusses the UNG contracting the work to General Galaxy in 2035, but I haven't seen any dates on when it first rolled off of the factory sattelite assembly line. I'm under the impression that the Rhea has been around for a good while and is probably due for an update by the time Macross F takes place.

[Seto Kaiba]

Seto, do you have any actual firm dates for the development and release of the Queadluun Rhea? I know that there is information that discusses the UNG contracting the work to General Galaxy in 2035, but I haven't seen any dates on when it first rolled off of the factory sattelite assembly line.

Not as such, no... the Macross Chronicle mechanic sheet for the Queadluun-Rhea (MacF Civ 07A) does say that General Galaxy got the contract to develop an improved version of the Queadluun-Rau in 2035. The sheet doesn't explicitly say when the Queadluun-Rhea ended up being introduced, but it does seem to imply that mass-production of the initial version of the Queadluun-Rhea (presumably Rhea/40) at the newly restored Quimeliquola automated factory satellite located at Eden's Lagrange 4.

The wording of the mechanic sheet used to describe the Queadluun-Rhea seen in the series identifies it as the latest version/type, which seems like a pretty cut and dry statement that it isn't the original model. Based on its designation (Rhea/56), it seems reasonable enough to assume that it was probably introduced in 2056.

I'm under the impression that the Rhea has been around for a good while and is probably due for an update by the time Macross F takes place.

Indeed... the Rhea does appear to have been around a while, though the version we see in Macross Frontier appears to be said upgrade, and a recent one at that.

[frothymug]

Although the Rhea designations do make sense to coincide with the year that they were released, it doesn't seem to make sense from an engineering standpoint to name each iteration after the year. That's just my two cents, though. I would think that a standard drawing-board-to-assembly-line time period would be 2-3 years.

[Talos]

It's a very Japanese thing to do, really. For instance, the JGSDF (Japan Ground Self-Defense Force) still uses the "Type-xx" designation, where the "xx" is a two-digit year number. They field the Type-90 tank, first produced in 1990, the Type-74 tank, first produced in 1975, and are getting the Type-10 tank soon, which you can guess the date on.

Previously (during and before the war), they gave aircraft a similar designation. The most famous is the Type-0 Carrier Fighter, taken from the Imperial year 2600, which corresponded with the Gregorian 1940.

So yeah, it can seem odd, but that's how the Japanese (and the Chinese, for that matter) still do it.

[frothymug]

Interesting insight. Thanks for the explanation.

I guess it's a tradition they've clung onto for centuries, dating back to when new technologies came out every few decades. Nowadays, it's probably not such a great idea, but they do it anyways.

[RedWolf]

Well one thing we know is that Millia was consulted in the Q-Rhea's development. Also that it has BDI. Given BDI was revolutionary during Macross Plus I'd guess development around late 30's or the 40's.

[azrael]

Well one thing we know is that Millia was consulted in the Q-Rhea's development. Also that it has BDI. Given BDI was revolutionary during Macross Plus I'd guess development around late 30's or the 40's.

Yes, BDI is introduced but like the VF-22, it's a partial system, not a full.

[David Hingtgen]

Germany also did the "model name is the year of design" thing, at least for WWII ship armaments.

[Robelwell202]

Okay, I know I'm not technically a newbie to Macross, any more, but there's been a question nagging at me for quite a while.

Has there ever been an official declaration on just how long the Macross spent in fold space, before crashing on Earth?

[azrael]

Has there ever been an official declaration on just how long the Macross spent in fold space, before crashing on Earth?

Nope.

[sketchley]

Okay, I know I'm not technically a newbie to Macross, any more, but there's been a question nagging at me for quite a while.

Has there ever been an official declaration on just how long the Macross spent in fold space, before crashing on Earth?

We only have the indication that the Buritai fleet was searching for it from 10 light years away.

Macross Chronicle also gives the approximate fold travel time from Eden to Earth as 18 to 24 hours, and 1 or 2 folds. Eden is 11.7 light years away.

From those pieces of information, we can infer that the ASS-1 spent approximately 16 to 22 hours in fold to escape the Buritai fleet and did it in a single fold.

Of course, that's presuming that the Buritai fleet was searching in the area that the ASS-1 folded from. They may have simply been searching areas that they suspected the ASS-1 to have defolded into, from some other part of the galaxy.

Edited August 2, 2010 by sketchley

[RedWolf]

Has there ever been an official declaration on just how long the Macross spent in fold space, before crashing on Earth?

The only thing we know is that the Zentradi tracked it down. Probably a mop up operation. By that time the ASS-1 has been on Earth's hands for a decade.

[frothymug]

Do you think it would have been possible for the ASS-1's previous owners to program a set of jumps into the computer? If that was the case, the possibilities could be endless...

[sketchley]

Do you think it would have been possible for the ASS-1's previous owners to program a set of jumps into the computer? If that was the case, the possibilities could be endless...

It's possible, but it's more likely that they abandoned ship, set it to fold with the rest of the fleet, but defold in a different location and much earlier than the rest of the fleet.

Why? The whole "Boobytrap" thing.

[Boxer]

Thanks for the answers on the Q-Rau/Rhea guys.

Speaking of the ASS-1, is it presumed that the war between the Zentradi and the Supervision army is still ongoing? I find it a little surprising that Earth hasn't encountered another Zentran fleet/ The Supervision Army if that was the case. I guess you could count the Protodevlin, but I was wondering about the original supervision army. Are they still out there, or has the war boiled down to a "mop up operation" by the Zentradi?

[RedWolf]

Thanks for the answers on the Q-Rau/Rhea guys.

Speaking of the ASS-1, is it presumed that the war between the Zentradi and the Supervision army is still ongoing? I find it a little surprising that Earth hasn't encountered another Zentran fleet/ The Supervision Army if that was the case. I guess you could count the Protodevlin, but I was wondering about the original supervision army. Are they still out there, or has the war boiled down to a "mop up operation" by the Zentradi?

Oh they are still out there. Just that as far as we know there is no formal first contact between the Supervision Army and Earthlings.

During the operation of the acquisition of the first factory satellite a wreck was found. It was abandoned for fear of a booby trap. Hypothesis was it met those Zentradi fleeing the battle of Space War 1.

We can only speculate that Supervision Army crews are composed of human size and Zentran size due to the structure of ASS-1. Macross 7 episode 2 Exsedol ponders about their enemy's identity being familiar only to dismiss it as they are using miclone accommodating Valkyries. Since the sponsors of the Varauta Army were former masters of the would-be Supervision Army, paint jobs may be close enough for their mecha.

Millia and Chlore were famous for one upping each other in kill scores.

[hulagu]

Oh they are still out there. Just that as far as we know there is no formal first contact between the Supervision Army and Earthlings.

During the operation of the acquisition of the first factory satellite a wreck was found. It was abandoned for fear of a booby trap. Hypothesis was it met those Zentradi fleeing the battle of Space War 1.

We can only speculate that Supervision Army crews are composed of human size and Zentran size due to the structure of ASS-1. Macross 7 episode 2 Exsedol ponders about their enemy's identity being familiar only to dismiss it as they are using miclone accommodating Valkyries. Since the sponsors of the Varauta Army were former masters of the would-be Supervision Army, paint jobs may be close enough for their mecha.

Millia and Chlore were famous for one upping each other in kill scores.

I think Exsedol's vague suspicions at the start of Macross 7 is more on the lines of "variable fighters are only known to be fielded by Earth human miclones", bootlegged Varauta mech designs ripped off from UN Spacy models, pointing to human renegades or some lost colonization fleet.

I don't think there is indication that the "Supervision Army" the Bodolle Zer fleet was fighting consisted of any miclones.

Does the Macross Chronicle expand any more about the Supervision Army?

Edited August 2, 2010 by hulagu

[RedWolf]

I think Exsedol's vague suspicions at the start of Macross 7 is more on the lines of "variable fighters are only known to be fielded by Earth human miclones", bootlegged Varauta mech designs ripped off from UN Spacy models, pointing to human renegades or some lost colonization fleet.

Episode 2 dialogue:

Exsedol: "It can't be they're..."

Max: "What is wrong Advisor Exsedol?"

Exsedol: "No. nothing."

Exsedol:Well that couldn't possibly happen. That craft is about the size for an Earthling.

[Freiflug88]

Do you think it would have been possible for the ASS-1's previous owners to program a set of jumps into the computer? If that was the case, the possibilities could be endless...

I think its likely that the ASS-1 was actually just running on auto-pilot for a very, very, long time. After all its a derelict ship whose previous owners were remnants of a brainwashed army who lost their supervisors in a a war thousands of years ago. I don't know about you, but I don't see jumping ship or creating a self-succiffant colony in the ship's hull and repopulating the ship with new crew-members as an option for brainwashed minions. Most likely they just died out naturally leaving a literal skeleton crew of the ship's AI systems.

[frothymug]

The ship being "abandoned" was the official word. Who knows what they found the first time they boarded the ship? They had even classified the fact that its former inhabitants were giants, therefore the reason for creating the variable fighter concept.

[Boxer]

They couldn't have found any remains of the previous crew (Zentradi), otherwise there would have been DNA tests or comparisons with humanity. Likely they examined what architecture remained and concluded that they were giants, but not the exact form.

[JB0]

They couldn't have found any remains of the previous crew (Zentradi), otherwise there would have been DNA tests or comparisons with humanity. Likely they examined what architecture remained and concluded that they were giants, but not the exact form.

And Roy was as surprised as Hikaru when the first zentradi staggered out of that Reguld and it was that human. Even skeletal remains would've told them that.

[sketchley]

And Roy was as surprised as Hikaru when the first zentradi staggered out of that Reguld and it was that human. Even skeletal remains would've told them that.

Which is odd, when you think about it, as parts, if not the entire ship, were macron scale. Case in point: the size of the VFs and Destroids. Therefore, someone knew. Some people knew.

Nevertheless, as the size of the aliens was known simply from the scale of the facilities, it doesn't support the assertion that there were remains of the crew onboard.

[RedWolf]

Which is odd, when you think about it, as parts, if not the entire ship, were macron scale. Case in point: the size of the VFs and Destroids. Therefore, someone knew. Some people knew.

Nevertheless, as the size of the aliens was known simply from the scale of the facilities, it doesn't support the assertion that there were remains of the crew onboard.

When one thinks about it much information about extra-terrestrials are considered top secret and need to know.

Since Valkyries are essentially infantry when needed the idea of humanoid mecha has to inspired by something. Maybe not corpses for DNA comparison but perhaps data left in the ASS-1 computers.

Also note up until Macross Zero we didn't know there was a first contact like situation prior to the Zentradi arrival. Even if the Birdman has artificial intelligence.

The whole incident is hidden from the Macross public for several decades but in the 2050's it is common knowledge.

[Talos]

I've always thought about it this way, they find the ship and it's clearly sized for aliens a certain size (maclone), but they don't necessarily find enough remains of the crew to determine their biological relations to humanity. Since they don't know how tough they are, they use a heavy caliber (55mm) in the gunpods on the VF-1 (since the VF-0 was never intended to fight the aliens, it makes do with a smaller caliber). Later on (VF-11, VF-19, etc), they go with smaller caliber, since they now know how much damage they can take.

[JB0]

Which is odd, when you think about it, as parts, if not the entire ship, were macron scale. Case in point: the size of the VFs and Destroids. Therefore, someone knew. Some people knew.

They knew the size. Probably even that the aliens were humanoid.

But I think the implication is that NO ONE knew they were 30-foot humans.

[Boxer]

Depends on how many Miclones the supervision army used. If most of what the SA was using were brainwashed Zentradi then they wouldn't had need for the smaller accommodations. This might be the case since otherwise it would have gone mentioned, surely?

Though while we're dancing on the matter of the ASS-1, was there any clear image of its pre-crash state (other than the space-wrecked derelict)? There's an image and profile up on steelfalcon, with an accompanying model (presumably fan-built?) Is this an official image or one created for Robotech?

[JB0]

Depends on how many Miclones the supervision army used. If most of what the SA was using were brainwashed Zentradi then they wouldn't had need for the smaller accommodations. This might be the case since otherwise it would have gone mentioned, surely?

That's actually an interesting point. You WOULD think that any evidence of mixed-size crew would be noteworthy enough to get mention. The implication DOES seem to be that it was a macro-zentradi-only vessel(and in DYRL, the ASS-1 was a meltrandi vessel in that version of events, making it explicitly macro-only).

The question becomes... is this unique to some SA vessels(making the ASS-1 an odd duck), or are all SA ships macro-only or miclone-only?

Though they should still be able to extrapolate the general shape of the giants from the giant-sized equipment they used. Size matters not.

Look at the zentradi restroom Max does his quick-change in. It's alien and teched up, but more or less recognizable as a restroom(or was intended to be, anyways. Max can tell as soon as he sees the space toilet.)

If the zentradi were, say, centaurs instead of human... their restrooms would look a LOT different. And there wouldn't BE chairs, not as we know them anyways. Hallways would probably be a lot wider(need more space to turn around if you have a horse's backside). Airlocks would be deeper. Et cetera.

I'd ask why they didn't find anything that would IMMEDIATELY make it clear how human they were(say, images in the crew database or 5-fingered spacesuits), but the ship was sent off as a booby trap. It was probably emptied of any gear that was easily removable, the database purged, the crew evacuated, and the autopilot programmed.

[Boxer]

I would guess from the wreckage of the ship, humanity could determine they were facing giant bipeds with hands and digits (to press the buttons) that required a pressurized atmosphere. For all they knew, they could be facing giant Star Trek aliens. On the matter of databases and such, I wonder now if either of the 'superpowers' (Supervision Army / Zentradi) use doctors or any other medical technologies. If they can't repair the equipment, what's to say they can repair the people?

(Imagine the consequences, then, had the UN Spacy decided to use biological warfare)

On the matter of Maclones... you can perhaps suggest that it would be the larger capital ships that would have miclones, and ships like the numerous gun destroyers would be manned by pure Zentradi. I can imagine that the 'production rate' of the Zentradi was high enough that there were more to brainwash and man starships than the protocultures. The Miclones were probably smarter than the average Zentran too. Did they handle this in Mac7? Wasn't Macross 5 a Zentradi fleet? Or did they just micronize any full-sized Zentradi they came across to fill the ranks?

[RedWolf]

Wasn't Macross 5 a Zentradi fleet? Or did they just micronize any full-sized Zentradi they came across to fill the ranks?

A UNG Zentradi emigration fleet. Those we saw are all miclone size.

Thing is emigration are fueled by several factors. Species and culture survival, capitalism and surprisingly nationalism. Surprising since you wouldn't think there be nations much less nationalism anymore after the holocaust.

For example Macross 11 is an all English speaking fleet. The rip-off band Kaifun manages ,yes Lin Kaifun himself, calls itself Fire Bomber American.

In the Macross 7 The Galaxy is Calling Me movie Basara visits a mining colony of South Americans.

Macross 7 Fleet is a mix of Earther-Zentrandi an estimated ratio of 250,000 to 100,000. Though English is the preferred written medium the culture takes a slant Japanese culture it seems. Which make me suspect Macross 7 is also made up of South Ataria survivor descendants given the Max, Millia and some Space War 1 vet retirees are there with their mint condition VF-1s and Monster. Macross 7 fleet does have Zentran size citizens but only few. These include Exsedol and those working in show business.

This is contrast to Macross Frontier which invested in accommodating a full Zentran community. It also helps that a billionaire eccentric Zentradi is a citizen, investor and tax payer. Judging from the sites in Island 1 it has a American, Japanese and Chinese demographic.

[sketchley]

They knew the size. Probably even that the aliens were humanoid.

But I think the implication is that NO ONE knew they were 30-foot humans.

Which is odd, given the circumstances (VF-1 deliberately sized to go hand to hand with giant aliens, et al.) So, either there's some artistic license going on in that scene (Roy's shock is to reinforce Hikaru's), deliberate misinformation in the UN Forces (youse VF pilots are battling giant robots, 'tis all), or Roy simply forgot or wasn't paying attention during that briefing.

If memory serves, Great Mechanics.DX makes a point of saying that the (known) Zentraadi equipment before the first encounter had energy conversion armour, and that weapons, such as the GU-11 were deliberately designed to overcome Zentraadi SW-AG. Of course it's probably a bit different than what appeared in SDFM, et al, but it reinforces the point that the UN Forces had at least a partial understanding of who, what they'd be fighting, and especially their capabilities. (This can be seen most clearly in the VF-1 for the aforementioned reasons, as well as the way oversized scaling of the weapons on the Oberth Space Destroyers).

[JB0]

Which is odd, given the circumstances (VF-1 deliberately sized to go hand to hand with giant aliens, et al.) So, either there's some artistic license going on in that scene (Roy's shock is to reinforce Hikaru's), deliberate misinformation in the UN Forces (youse VF pilots are battling giant robots, 'tis all), or Roy simply forgot or wasn't paying attention during that briefing.

Or since they'd never seen any physical remains or pictures of the former crew, they figured they were fighting a giant version of the Predator, Creature from the Black Lagoon, or something similarly not-quite human.

Not that I DOUBT there was misinformation to the troops, but it was implied Roy was "in the loop."

Heck, even if they HAD found physical remains, they probably would've assumed they looked more like klingons or romulans than humans.