Newbie Questions on Macross

[Zinjo]

Well while that is a possibility and certainly could be how it works, given the way everything is set up on a Valkyrie I think it makes most sense to assume that there is one fusion reactor per main engine and it is in the leg/engine piece. Although I don't really know what an Overtechnology fusion reactor would look like, I assume it isn't tiny so it just seems to me the logical place to put it is in the engine and there is two of those so I guess each have one and they combine to generate the total power of the valkyrie. I don't know where else the reactor/s could be on the valk to tell the truth, so it just makes sense to me to believe one in each leg. Now I can believe the main battery that the fusion reactor powers might be elsewhere (there probably is a battery that the reactor charges that can be used for things on the plane when the engines aren't active, like how a car battery is used almost).

Possibly the current reactors are a single unit that electrically drives the turbines in the engines or they are indeed part of the engine assembly and create a plasma thrust from the reactant gas in space flight.

[JB0]

Heh true, never noticed the lack of inertial damper mentions. I guess then Macross ships either don't accelerate too fast or they use the same systems that make artificial gravity to counteract inertia (which is a form of theoretical inertial damper) and they just don't talk about it or refer to it as such.

It's more of an issue for fighters, really. We never see large ships changing velocity very fast(except the Frontier's Macross).

And fighter pilots in Macross are subject to the laws of motion, it seems.

Well while that is a possibility and certainly could be how it works, given the way everything is set up on a Valkyrie I think it makes most sense to assume that there is one fusion reactor per main engine and it is in the leg/engine piece. Although I don't really know what an Overtechnology fusion reactor would look like, I assume it isn't tiny so it just seems to me the logical place to put it is in the engine and there is two of those so I guess each have one and they combine to generate the total power of the valkyrie. I don't know where else the reactor/s could be on the valk to tell the truth, so it just makes sense to me to believe one in each leg.

You could put it in the main body of the plane, between the arms and the top of the jet.

Which would have an advantage in that it's better protected(especially in battroid mode).

But it certainly makes heat transfer easier to put it in the legs with the engines.

Now I can believe the main battery that the fusion reactor powers might be elsewhere (there probably is a battery that the reactor charges that can be used for things on the plane when the engines aren't active, like how a car battery is used almost).

Any sort of standby battery I would assume is charged by the ground crew in the hanger. There's no good reason to shut the reactors off during flight.

[Sulendil Ang]

A confirmation more than a real question:

I'm a little confused by the whole UN/NUNG (New United Nation Government). The original UN was established after the discovery of ASS-1, right? And the NUNG is founded after the original was destroyed during the Space War I, right?

[Gubaba]

A confirmation more than a real question:

I'm a little confused by the whole UN/NUNG (New United Nation Government). The original UN was established after the discovery of ASS-1, right? And the NUNG is founded after the original was destroyed during the Space War I, right?

That's what I thought, but others have pointed out that there's a big difference between "The New Unity Government" and "a new Unity Government."

[Sulendil Ang]

That's what I thought, but others have pointed out that there's a big difference between "The New Unity Government" and "a new Unity Government."

Yeah, I think the main problem is that if the current New United Government is the reform of the New United Nation Government (notice the difference) or not. Just hope that episode 13 will have a history lesson with us. I will love to see it.

[JB0]

A confirmation more than a real question:

I'm a little confused by the whole UN/NUNG (New United Nation Government). The original UN was established after the discovery of ASS-1, right? And the NUNG is founded after the original was destroyed during the Space War I, right?

The original UN was established after World War 2. And was still around when the ASS-1 crashed to Earth, at which point it made a power grab. And when the smoke from the Unification Wars cleared, it was a legitimate world government, though not the ruler of the whole world it wanted(they didn't own Ontario!).

There was a new UN established after SW1, though.

It's unclear at this point if the Frontier fleet is under that UN or ANOTHER new UN.

Edited June 29, 2008 by JB0

[syn13]

Newbie here but what the hell happened to the technology that went into the YF-21 & 19? I mean the Pin-Point system(I think thats what its called) and why wasn't the 19s used for the next generations of fighter? I kinda missed out on all of M7 so I'm not sure if theres any real vital information on what I'm asking.

[RedWolf]

Newbie here but what the hell happened to the technology that went into the YF-21 & 19? I mean the Pin-Point system(I think thats what its called) and why wasn't the 19s used for the next generations of fighter? I kinda missed out on all of M7 so I'm not sure if theres any real vital information on what I'm asking.

YF-19

Shinsei industry won the military contract to produce the next generation fighter.

The VF-19F, 19S, 19P were massed production versions of the YF-19.

The most famous of the VF-19 line is Nekki Basara's Custom VF-19 Fire Valkyrie.

Five years after Plus the VF-19 was still in the combat testing stages.

VF-19's perfomance through Nekki Basara was evaluated during the Protodevlin war. Nekki Basara made good use of the VF-19's pin-point barrier system and it's manueverability.

In the tradition of the Daedalus attack it can also perform a pin-point barrier punch.

2045-46 VF-19F and VF-19S were built for combat with the Protodevlin under the elite Emerald Force squadron.

As of 2047 VF-19's are already distributed even to most remote UN teritory such as Zola.

A planet whose native miclone race joined the UN. Though in small numbers due to how expensive VF-19's are.

YF-21

Galaxy General while having not won the Supernova contract repackaged the YF-21 into the VF-22 Strumvogel II and VF-22S as a special operations fighter and got a smaller contract out of it.

The the Brain Control interface system was thrown out in favor of more conventional pilot controls. Due to side effects to pilot psyche and human or Zentradi endurace could not survive if the fighter is pushed to the limits with the brain control system.

In 2046 the VF-22 saw first action in the Protodevlin war under married pilot aces Maximillian Jenius and Milia Fallyna Jenius.

As of 2047 the VF-22 became the fighter of choice by Macross 7 elite Diamond Force squadron.

But it seems to me the VF-27 is running on similar principles to the brain control interface system.

The endurance part is solved because the pilot is a cyborg.

Edited July 6, 2008 by RedWolf

[Mr March]

Newbie here but what the hell happened to the technology that went into the YF-21 & 19? I mean the Pin-Point system(I think thats what its called) and why wasn't the 19s used for the next generations of fighter? I kinda missed out on all of M7 so I'm not sure if theres any real vital information on what I'm asking.

No specific explanation is given. But it's very likely that advancements in Energy Converting Armor technology made the concept of a fighter-based pin-point barrier system more than a little superfluous.

The BDS system of the YF-21 was unreliable even with a properly trained pilot such as Guld Bowman. Slight changes in mood as well as wayward thoughts would adversely affect the system. With the only prototype YF-21 also destroyed in 2040 (remember that YF-21 prototype No.1 was piloted by a conventional control cockpit), it's not surprising the technology was abandoned.

In-universe, there's no explanation given as to why the VF-19 Excalibur wasn't widely deployed post-2047. The VF-22 Sturmvogel II (the production version of the YF-21) was employed as a special operations variable fighter in some limited capacity. As a production reason, Shoji Kawamori did explain that the VF-19 Excalibur looked too similar to the hero Valkyrie (VF-25 Messiah) of the new Macross Frontier series, so he decided to use a revised Nightmare design called the VF-171 to act as the mass production fighter for the New UN Spacy.

[JB0]

As a production reason, Shoji Kawamori did explain that the VF-19 Excalibur looked too similar to the hero Valkyrie (VF-25 Messiah) of the new Macross Frontier series, so he decided to use a revised Nightmare design called the VF-171 to act as the mass production fighter for the New UN Spacy.

Actually, I think he said it looked too much like A hero mech, not that it looked too much like the VF-25.

Meanwhile, back in the old days, when we had to walk uphill both ways to watch anime... everyone flew the same QBerting plane, just with a different head and paint job.

Hero mech is a silly Gundam ideal, and I'm sad to see it invading Macross.

[azrael]

VF-19's perfomance through Nekki Basara was evaluated during the Protodevlin war.

Good for a laugh, but there's no real mention of that. The VF-19 Custom was just that, a custom.

As of 2047 the VF-22 became the fighter of choice by Macross 7 elite Diamond Force squadron.

Actually, it replaced the VF-17 as the Special Operations fighter so Diamond Force would have gotten it anyways.

[Sumdumgai]

Just curious as to where that info is from redwolf. Because the best place for Macross series information is the Macross Compendium, as it's recognized by Big West.

[RedWolf]

Good for a laugh, but there's no real mention of that. The VF-19 Custom was just that, a custom.

Actually one of the techs in Macross 7 during maintenance said that Basara sending the VF-19 through the wringer is a test of the VF-19's performance.

It's not as if Basara bought an expensive VF, it was given to him under UN Spacy's Operation M.

Oh well it still blew up by the end of the Protodevlin war.

But he got a new one (VF-19P) with a red space whale paintjob, nicking it from the Zolan Galactic Patrol.

He said to Liza to send the bill to Ray.

Just curious as to where that info is from redwolf. Because the best place for Macross series information is the Macross Compendium, as it's recognized by Big West.

Mostly mecha sites like Mahq.net or Macross Mecha Manual and personally watching all the series.

Edited July 7, 2008 by RedWolf

[Master Dex]

Mostly mecha sites like Mahq.net or Macross Mecha Manual and personally watching all the series.

I don't know much about mahq but M3 is a fan site, something you should keep in mind. March has even said multiple times it is still only a fan site and not supposed to be the perfect source for information. The Compendium still seems like the best place to get information.

[azrael]

I don't know much about mahq but M3 is a fan site, something you should keep in mind. March has even said multiple times it is still only a fan site and not supposed to be the perfect source for information. The Compendium still seems like the best place to get information.

MAHQ pulls its info from the Compendium.

[Mr March]

Best source of official information has been and likely always will be, the Macross Compendium. Having said that, the VF-19 Custom being a performance testbed project with Basara isn't mentioned anywhere on my site, AFAIK.

[Gubaba]

Actually one of the techs in Macross 7 during maintenance said that Basara sending the VF-19 through the wringer is a test of the VF-19's performance.

IIRC, they said it was LIKE an endurance test of the VF-19...not an ACTUAL test. And even that was (again IIRC) just because Basara couldn't do any maintainance on the Valk himself...

Of course, they could still use the data, but it's certainly not like they had a controlled environment or anything...

[akt_m]

Actually, I think he said it looked too much like A hero mech, not that it looked too much like the VF-25.

Meanwhile, back in the old days, when we had to walk uphill both ways to watch anime... everyone flew the same QBerting plane, just with a different head and paint job.

Hero mech is a silly Gundam ideal, and I'm sad to see it invading Macross.

Macross 7??? VF-19 Kai???

[JB0]

Macross 7??? VF-19 Kai???

I didn't say this was the first occurrence.

And there was also Diamond Force's VF-17s in Mac7, on the subject of hero mechs. Though at least Gamlin wasn't the ONLY VF-17 pilot.

[RichterX]

The bridge that Global used in Macross until the end of Space War 1 and later replaced for the bridge similar to DYRL? was it the primary bridge of the Macross or a secondary control post?

[Morpheus]

Macross 7??? VF-19 Kai???

Four unit of VF-19 were destroyed in Macross 7, two during Operation Stargazer and another two were vaporized when hiding behind asteroids. Yeah, VF-19 Kai is the hero mech, not the normal VF-19.

IIRC only one unit of VF-17 were destroyed.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Morpheus

[JB0]

The bridge that Global used in Macross until the end of Space War 1 and later replaced for the bridge similar to DYRL? was it the primary bridge of the Macross or a secondary control post?

It was the primary, at least originally.

There was a new command center added somewhere in the core of the ship post-war. Of course, it had to be abandoned during the final episode, so they could all get together on the old bridge.

[Kurisama]

Meanwhile, back in the old days, when we had to walk uphill both ways to watch anime... everyone flew the same QBerting plane, just with a different head and paint job.

Hero mech is a silly Gundam ideal, and I'm sad to see it invading Macross.

I totally, totally agree with u there..

I love the feeling of rank and file mecha in the Macross universe, of course there are the CF VF-1A's - but the 'hero' mechs were really hero mechs because of the pilots, not the mech. Although the 'Skull Fokker Special' paint job is one of the best in the Macross universe, next to Hikaru's VF-1J

[d3v]

Unfortunately, anime these days has to cater to the demands of the market, meaning "hero mecha" whether we like it or not.

In any case, I think Frontier has handled it well enough, showing that the VF-25 isn't some god-like mecha ala Gundam (in fact getting it badly damaged and even destroyed on occasion).

[Kurisama]

I like to think of Valkyries as having J.C.S, or 'Jackie Chan Syndrome' - as in the mechs will save the day, but the can/will get damaged or hurt

[JB0]

Unfortunately, anime these days has to cater to the demands of the market, meaning "hero mecha" whether we like it or not.

The mass market is irrelevant! Cater to my whims!

*tangental rant about the evils of inertial dampers*

Seriously, I wonder if they could get away with the old SDF "swap the head and throw some paint on it" routine if they tried really hard.

The 1J and 1S existed to be "hero mechs" but it seems less offensive when it's not maintaining entirely different planes.

(Admittedly, SMS has separation of gear from NUNS, so the usual gripes about maintaining two sets of planes don't really apply.)

[Sulendil Ang]

Just curious, how does VF-17 transform? Haven't really seen Macross 7, but judging from the line art, I doubt it was transform using the conventional throttle method.

[Mr March]

The VF-17 Nightmare isn't transformed using the stick? Seems like it would be, but Idon't think we ever saw a transformation initiation in the cockpit.

[Sulendil Ang]

To illustrate my point, let's compare YF-19 with VF-17.

First, here's the line art of YF-19's cockpit in Battroid and Fighter mode. Notice the different position of the throttle.

Fighter Mode

Battroid Mode

Now, here's the cockpit of VF-17 in both modes. There seems to be no visible change in the position of the throttle:

Fighter Mode

Battroid Mode

[Mr March]

Yes, I see the Battroid mode throttle for the VF-17 Nightmare isn't at a different 90 degree angle than the Fighter mode throttle, unlike the YF-19 cockpits. But what does that say? The VF-17 Nightmare has a HOTAS (Hands-On-Throttle-And-Stick) cockpit like all the other modern Valkyrie, perhaps even more so given the layout. So if the control for transformation isn't on the throttle or stick, then where would it be?

The transformation could still be on the throttle or stick, but just not activated the same way as the VF-1 Valkyrie, the YF-19 or the VF-25 Messiah (by shifting the angle of the mount 90 degrees).

[Sulendil Ang]

Yes, I see the Battroid mode throttle for the VF-17 Nightmare isn't at a different 90 degree angle than the Fighter mode throttle, unlike the YF-19 cockpits. But what does that say? The VF-17 Nightmare has a HOTAS (Hands-On-Throttle-And-Stick) cockpit like all the other modern Valkyrie, perhaps even more so given the layout. So if the control for transformation isn't on the throttle or stick, then where would it be?

The transformation could still be on the throttle or stick, but just not activated the same way as the VF-1 Valkyrie, the YF-19 or the VF-25 Messiah (by shifting the angle of the mount 90 degrees).

Well, that's interesting. So do you have any idea how the mechanism of transformation works for VF-17, March?

[Mr March]

I'd say the VF-17 Nightmare transformation control is somewhere on the throttle or stick. But like I said, I can't recall if we've ever seen an animated episode of Macross 7 that showed one of the VF-17 Nightmare controls initiating a transformation. But given that the cockpit is a HOTAS, I can't imagine it being anywhere else. HOTAS cockpits, at least in Macross, don't have much in the way of other controls (as one can see by looking at the cockpit art).

Maybe it's voice activated, like a super robot show! GAMLIN KICK! Let the lame flow through me

[Master Dex]

Perhaps push of a button on the stick or throttle...

On this subject I've noticed that when using the throttle stick transformation method in the VF-25 (and the VF-0 for that matter), while it is 90 degrees for fighter and straight up for battroid, it isn't 45 degrees for gerwalk like you'd think. It is still just at 90. So I'm wondering what do they do to go to gerwalk instead of fighter?

[azrael]

I'd say the VF-17 Nightmare transformation control is somewhere on the throttle or stick. But like I said, I can't recall if we've ever seen an animated episode of Macross 7 that showed one of the VF-17 Nightmare controls initiating a transformation. But given that the cockpit is a HOTAS, I can't imagine it being anywhere else. HOTAS cockpits, at least in Macross, don't have much in the way of other controls (as one can see by looking at the cockpit art).

MD7 episode 3. When Liza jumps into the VF-17, she jerks the throttle up (like every other VF) and it changes to GERWALK.

[Sulendil Ang]

Perhaps push of a button on the stick or throttle...

On this subject I've noticed that when using the throttle stick transformation method in the VF-25 (and the VF-0 for that matter), while it is 90 degrees for fighter and straight up for battroid, it isn't 45 degrees for gerwalk like you'd think. It is still just at 90. So I'm wondering what do they do to go to gerwalk instead of fighter?

For VF-25, it's a tough question. We have yet to see the control when VF-25 is transformed from Fighter to GERWALK. I guess just like VF-17, it's just a push of a button somewhere in the stick or throttle...

At least, unlike other VF, we still have plenty of episode left to see any indication of how they pull this trick off...