Newbie Questions on Macross

[Master Dex]

No, it's a completely new game. A sequel if you will.

I thought the sequel was called Macross Ultimate Frontier. That listing was still using the name of the first game with (PSP the Best) added on to it.

[Sergorn]

I thought the sequel was called Macross Ultimate Frontier. That listing was still using the name of the first game with (PSP the Best) added on to it.

I think it might be a "budget" re-release of the game much like the Greatest Hits and Platinum releases in the US and Europe

-Sergorn

[Beltane70]

Whoops! I totally misread your post, Master Dex!

[Tochiro]

Whoops! I totally misread your post, Master Dex!

"The Best" series is the equivalent of a platinum hits label outside of Japan. Happens to a lot of games 6-12 months after they come out here.

[Master Dex]

Ok, that is what I figured it was. Usually best seller games like that in U.S. aren't listed as releasing separately later, I just notice they are there one day, lol. Since I plan to get a PSP some time in the next month maybe that version of the fame would be the best for me to buy.

[RDClip]

So i have a question, either due to having a low attention span or a bad memory.

What was the Vajra's connection to the Protoculture? I don't remember, it being stated that they created the Vajra, but they do resemble the birdhuman.

2nd is more of a general wondering.

Why would the Protoculture, a race in the midst of a civil war of galactic proportion and that created super powerful techno-organic weapons, place a device like the birdhuman on earth to make sure humans don't fight? plot hole or were protoculture just a race of self-righteous hypocrites?

[Gubaba]

So i have a question, either due to having a low attention span or a bad memory.

What was the Vajra's connection to the Protoculture? I don't remember, it being stated that they created the Vajra, but they do resemble the birdhuman.

No...they didn't created the Vajra, they revered and deified the Vajra.

2nd is more of a general wondering.

Why would the Protoculture, a race in the midst of a civil war of galactic proportion and that created super powerful techno-organic weapons, place a device like the birdhuman on earth to make sure humans don't fight? plot hole or were protoculture just a race of self-righteous hypocrites?

As dreamweaver13 stated quite a while back, "Why did the Protoculture spend so much time and energy creating tests and deathtraps instead of, you know, trying to find a way to NOT DIE OUT?"

Or something to that effect.

Anyway, I'd say it was just a case of, "Daddy screwed up his life...don't do what Daddy did."

[VFTF1]

I don't actually think the Protoculture fathomed just what it is they were creating, sort of like people. The problem is not in the technology they built, but in how it was governed and put to use.

Pete

[RedWolf]

I don't actually think the Protoculture fathomed just what it is they were creating, sort of like people. The problem is not in the technology they built, but in how it was governed and put to use.

Pete

According to the ruins of Rax the Protoculture created a vast interstellar empire which degenerated into two factions fighting for supremacy.

We already saw this in the latest generation with Grace's cabal and Leon's schemes.

[RDClip]

According to the ruins of Rax the Protoculture created a vast interstellar empire which degenerated into two factions fighting for supremacy.

We already saw this in the latest generation with Grace's cabal and Leon's schemes.

As per my wondering, why they would try to force morality on humanity, when they themselves were a warring destructive people.

[Beltane70]

As per my wondering, why they would try to force morality on humanity, when they themselves were a warring destructive people.

To prevent humanity from sharing the same fate as themselves.

[Gui]

Actually, the Protoculture never really died: it keeps on living through its "children" species like mankind and the zolans

From this point of view, it is very similar to Roma whose ideology – and then, its spirit – survived its fall as a nation

In fact, the Protoculture keeps on evolving and maturing...

[VFTF1]

Yeah; I agree with Gui. Humanity are the Protoculture - as Global says. It's not exactly true - but it's true enough

Pete

[Alex]

This is a very random question. I swear that I heard a Wilhelm Scream in one episode of SDF Macross. If you don't know what that is, a quick Wikipedia search is all you need.

Anyone know which episode it may have featured in?

Cheers.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Alex

[VFTF1]

I lack the basic motivation to open a new window, go to google, and check wiki.

Can you fill me in on the Wilhelm scream? I think I've heard of it before...

Pete

[Gubaba]

I lack the basic motivation to open a new window, go to google, and check wiki.

Can you fill me in on the Wilhelm scream? I think I've heard of it before...

Pete

I've you've seen any Star Wars or Indiana Jones movie, you've heard it.

Think of the truly outrageous "OOAAAAAWW!" sound made by the Stormtrooper who Luke shoots before he and Leia swing over the chasm in the Death Star.

[Alex]

I've you've seen any Star Wars or Indiana Jones movie, you've heard it.

Think of the truly outrageous "OOAAAAAWW!" sound made by the Stormtrooper who Luke shoots before he and Leia swing over the chasm in the Death Star.

It's surprising how often you do hear it. I've heard it in numerous Japanese productions including a few anime. I'm pretty sure that it's a Zentraedi soldier who screams it.

This is gonna bug me for ages

[VFTF1]

So it's basically a silly scream that you hear when people get shot in a movie?

Hm.

I'm still unclear about this. True, the Zendradi do scream when they get shot, but I never found the screams to be silly, except and unless looked at from a phonetic point of view - but that's simply because there's a "japanese accent" to the scream... although even that doesn't make it sound silly.

Then again I never found the Storm trooper screams silly either

I loose

Pete

[Alex]

So it's basically a silly scream that you hear when people get shot in a movie?

Hm.

I'm still unclear about this. True, the Zendradi do scream when they get shot, but I never found the screams to be silly, except and unless looked at from a phonetic point of view - but that's simply because there's a "japanese accent" to the scream... although even that doesn't make it sound silly.

Then again I never found the Storm trooper screams silly either

I loose

Pete

It's not really that silly. Just a little over-the-top.

[Killer Robot]

So it's basically a silly scream that you hear when people get shot in a movie?

It's not just a silly scream, it's a particular silly scream that was recorded in the 1950s and used in a couple of movies then, then later on was discovered by the sound director from Star Wars and used in a lot of his works: from there it became a big theatrical in-joke that gets used in lots of movies, TV shows, etc. Over 140 last I checked.

According to this page it's in the episode "Blind Game" of the ADV dub of SDFM. I haven't verified it myself, though.

[Gubaba]

It's not just a silly scream, it's a particular silly scream that was recorded in the 1950s and used in a couple of movies then, then later on was discovered by the sound director from Star Wars and used in a lot of his works: from there it became a big theatrical in-joke that gets used in lots of movies, TV shows, etc. Over 140 last I checked.

According to this page it's in the episode "Blind Game" of the ADV dub of SDFM. I haven't verified it myself, though.

Only in the English dub? That's lame.

[Alex]

It's not just a silly scream, it's a particular silly scream that was recorded in the 1950s and used in a couple of movies then, then later on was discovered by the sound director from Star Wars and used in a lot of his works: from there it became a big theatrical in-joke that gets used in lots of movies, TV shows, etc. Over 140 last I checked.

According to this page it's in the episode "Blind Game" of the ADV dub of SDFM. I haven't verified it myself, though.

I'm pretty sure that it's also in the original version somewhere.

[dreamweaver13]

I'm pretty sure that it's also in the original version somewhere.

cool. a reason to do another SDFM marathon.

... as if i needed a reason.

[VFTF1]

I don't know about you guys, but personally I think the Wilhelm scream is nothing compared to the Mikuru-Asahina scream from Sighs of Haruhi Suzumiya part 3...

"Now scream and fall to the ground!"

"Ehh...eeeeehhh!....ooo...nn...mmmmm...ehh..." :-)

THAT scream should be in EVERY movie.

Pete

[Aurora-7]

The term 'Reflex Weaponry', is it Macross based, ROBOTECH based or both? If both, does it refer to the same thing? And is it essentially powerful beam weaponry (a la SDF-1 main gun)?

[VFTF1]

This is a job for Mr. March.

I personally only remember Reactive Armor from Macross... but Reflex weaponry? Don't remember them using that term in Macross... then again I don't pay much attention. I just look at the pretty girls and clap my hands to the music...

Pete

[VF5SS]

"Reflex" is just a poor translation of the word "hannou" meaning reaction or response. In Macross weapons of a nuclear nature are called "hannou heiki" or reaction weapon.

[Aurora-7]

I was showing my son 'Robotech' on you tube after he just finished watching Macross Frontier (not an advisable way to introduce someone to the franchise).

The first episode had Exedor and Britai assessing the lifeforms on the planet that Zur's ship crashed on and made the remark that they poses '....reflex weaponry and that makes them very dangerous'.

[Mr March]

VFTF1

Mr. March to the rescue?

I actually know next to nothing about Robotech. In this case I'd defer to VF5SS's explanation that "reflex" sounds like a context mistranslation of the original Japanese word for "reaction". Given that we're talking about an anime translated some 20 years ago (when accuracy was less than stellar and no one really cared) it seems like a reasonable assumption to make.

Aurora-7

In Macross, the term "reaction" refers to both "reaction weapons" (which are high energy weapons of mass destruction, similar to nuclear bombs) and the word "reaction" also refers to the fictional method of power generation in the Macross Universe (called the "Reaction Engine"). Energy weapons in Macross are described by MANY different names such a "beam gun", "particle beam guns", "plasma cannons" and the like. You are correct that the main gun of the SDF-1 Macross is indeed a high energy weapon of mass destruction, but it is not termed a "reaction" weapon but rather a super-dimension-energy cannon.

You can find some more detailed information about the term "reaction" in the "R" section of the Macrosspedia on my website or by looking at the Thermonuclear Reaction page at the Macross Compendium and the Reaction Weapon page at the Macross Compendium.

In the context of the Zentradi, they had long since lost the ability to build reaction weapons and hence were limited to more conventional weaponry (keeping in mind "conventional" weaponry is still advanced OverTechnology in the context of Macross). If they could secure the secrets of "reaction" weapons once again, the Zentradi would obtain a very significant advantage over their long fought enemy, the "Supervision Army". I don't know how Robotech deals will all this, but this is the internally consistent plot of the original Macross series.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Mr March

[Aurora-7]

Thanks, MM.

Skimming through the indexes, I was wondering if the term 'Macross' itself should have an entry. As I understand it from watching what I have come across of the franchise, 'Macross' can refer to the island the the ASS-1 originally crashed on and to forms of capital ships or the fleet they are part of. Is that correct? Is there one source definition for 'Macross' as a word?

Edited September 3, 2009 by Aurora-7

[Master Dex]

Macross, by definition in the Macross universe, is the official name of the SDF-1. Hence it is usually labeled SDF-1 Macross.

In Robotech they changed it so the island was already called Macross island and that is why the city on it was named as such. Robotech just called the ship SDF-1. In Macross the ship was named Macross because of its large size (I think the in universe reason is Macro(Big) Space Ship or something like that). In reality the story writers called it Macross because they were compromising when one person wanted it to be called Macbeth, and the romanization for Macbeth and Macross are similar. Macross city was so named because it was built around, and later inside the Macross ship.

Also if your curious, in Macross, the island ASS-1 crashed on was called South Ataria Island. It is still fictional, but it makes more sense to me than Macross island.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Master Dex

[dreamweaver13]

I was showing my son 'Robotech' on you tube after he just finished watching Macross Frontier (not an advisable way to introduce someone to the franchise).

The first episode had Exedor and Britai assessing the lifeforms on the planet that Zur's ship crashed on and made the remark that they poses '....reflex weaponry and that makes them very dangerous'.

Sure, starting with Macross Frontier may not be the best way to introduce someone to the franchise, but continuing it with Robotech is way way WAY worse. spare your son from the suffering!

Edited September 4, 2009 by dreamweaver13

[mickyg]

Another question that's been bothering me (totally new topic, too): How do VF engines generate power in atmosphere when the intakes are closed? This is mostly a battroid case but lets say, Macross Zero, for instance. When Shin's VF-0D goes submarine, there's just no way to reconcile that one in my mind! Is that a bad example? Ok, let's concentrate on battroid then. How do the engines work if the air source is blocked by the intake covers?

Am I not allowing "reaction engine" to really do it's thing here or is this just a question that wasn't meant to be asked? It's just that lots of other things (technical) in this series is actually really well thought out.

[Mr March]

Since the VF-1 and later valkyries can all operate within a vacuum, it appears to make little operational difference if the engine intakes are opened or closed in an atmosphere or not. Within an atmosphere, open intakes would allow a valkyrie to use the atmosphere for fuel, rather than relying upon internal fuel stores. So the gain would be efficiency.

The VF-0 Phoenix seems to be a unique case and I'm not really sure how it would work since the VF-0 uses conventional jet engines, not thermonuclear reaction engines. Then again, utilizing conventional engines (however "over-tuned" they may be) to power a valkyrie seems like a stretch anyway, so I think it might be splitting hairs to worry about intakes in the face of a much more fundamental tech issue in Macross Zero

Edited September 4, 2009 by Mr March

[akt_m]

Another question that's been bothering me (totally new topic, too): How do VF engines generate power in atmosphere when the intakes are closed? This is mostly a battroid case but lets say, Macross Zero, for instance. When Shin's VF-0D goes submarine, there's just no way to reconcile that one in my mind! Is that a bad example? Ok, let's concentrate on battroid then. How do the engines work if the air source is blocked by the intake covers?

Am I not allowing "reaction engine" to really do it's thing here or is this just a question that wasn't meant to be asked? It's just that lots of other things (technical) in this series is actually really well thought out.

IMO can't really question those things if you are believing that jet transforming robots are possible.

First you have to ask: "holly sh*t, how is a jet transforming to a robot possible???"

Two answers:

1) "Ok i will believe." If you do so, then asking things like how do they generate power aren't needed, you already believe something more unreal.

2) "That is totally impossible". Then you are watching Macross because it is fun, and any aspect that isn't realistic won't bother you anymore.

Edited September 4, 2009 by akt_m