Newbie Questions on Macross

[MDP310]

OK so I've been wondering something.

VF's are powered by thermonuclear reaction engines, right? Does that mean their jet exhaust is radioactive? That's kind of been bugging me lately.

Also I'm new. Hi.

[Killer Robot]

OK so I've been wondering something.

VF's are powered by thermonuclear reaction engines, right? Does that mean their jet exhaust is radioactive? That's kind of been bugging me lately.

Also I'm new. Hi.

Not really. If the reaction engines engines use protium(ordinary hydrogen) or deuterium(heavy hydrogen) there would be a lot of gamma radiation released during the actual reaction, but since the engine would have to be shielded enough to turn that gamma into heat what comes out the back is just going to be superheated air and/or propellant. If it used tritium(radioactive hydrogen) there would be some more neutron radiation that can make other things radioactive, but there's no indication this is the case in Overtech reactors.

A real world thermonuclear weapon produces a lot of radioactive materials, but that's because its fusion stage is sparked by, and used to contain and prolong, the fission bomb at its core - fission does create lots of radioactive remnants. I'm less sure, but I think that's also how reaction warheads have been explained as differing from real-world nukes: they're purely or almost purely fusion, so don't make all the fallout.

And welcome to MW, though I'm not exactly an old hand here myself.

[miles316]

OK so I've been wondering something.

VF's are powered by thermonuclear reaction engines, right? Does that mean their jet exhaust is radioactive? That's kind of been bugging me lately.

Also I'm new. Hi.

Their are two types of nuclear propulsion direct cycle and indirect cycle. In a direct cycle the propellant goes directly in to the reactor and out the tail pipe. In a indirect cycle a coolant goes in to a heat exchanger from the reactor were it transfers it's heat to the propellant creating thrust.

Edited March 8, 2009 by miles316

[Morpheus]

Hmm, makes me wonder, can a VF engines goes into critical and went KABOOM reaction nuke style?

[Cyclone Trooper]

Those were just VF-11D's with specialized sound boosters and two seater cockpits with a special heat shield cover to protect the singers.

Correct. They were basically Elintseeker VF-11Ds that were retrofitted for KISS...

Edited March 8, 2009 by Cyclone Trooper

[Master Dex]

Hmm, makes me wonder, can a VF engines goes into critical and went KABOOM reaction nuke style?

Highly unlikely. Fusion is a lot more clean than fissions, and doesn't have the propensity for chain reactions. Although it is certainly possible, it is just not likely. After all a pure fusion bomb is well sought after (possible defenition of reaction weapons, but they are more likely pair annihilation). Thing is if you fuse a bunch of hydrogen together all at one you get a big fusion reaction (like stars get), but if you fuse smaller amounts you don't get heavy reactions, just what you need in power. The idea for energy using fusion is to start up the fusion by heating hydrogen so it will fuse by some method (could be tormac, laser induced, or any number of ways), after the first fusion heat from the generation energy is used to fuse more hydrogen, creating sustained fusion. Sustained fusion is what we have yet to perfect. It seems the most efficient way to create sustained fusion in by compression hydrogen or whatever element in a sphere really densely so it heat up and fuses. This is exactly what stars do. However it isn't easy to compact things into a sphere, stars have gravity doing that and we cannot control gravity (maybe someday long in future, but not now).

I think the only way to have a VF engine go critical like that would be to remove all fail safes and cause all the material in the engines to fuse at once creating a massive reaction. Like I said, supposedly it could happen with damage, but I don't see it being something that happens often.

I have been using hydrogen throughout this post just because that is at the moment the easiest element to fuse, but there are other options. Truthfully deuterium seems easier for us to work with than pure hydrogen, I can't remember why though. Pure hydrogen is what is fused in stars though. Another element which is promising is helium-3. This element fuses easily and does throw away neutrons like deuterium so there is even less radiation than from hydrogen fusion (as if there was that much to begin with, fusion by comparison to fission practically has no radiation, though it is there). Problem is helium-3 is scare on Earth. It is abundant however, on our very own Moon. Which is why I am an advocate for future lunar mining.

[anime52k8]

I'm less sure, but I think that's also how reaction warheads have been explained as differing from real-world nukes: they're purely or almost purely fusion, so don't make all the fallout.

And welcome to MW, though I'm not exactly an old hand here myself.

the reaction warheads I believe are described as being fusion bombs with pair annihilation, which implies some form of matter/anti-matter reaction.

Their are two types of nuclear propulsion direct cycle and indirect cycle. In a direct cycle the propellant goes directly in to the reactor and out the tail pipe. In a indirect cycle a coolant goes in to a heat exchanger from the reactor were it transfers it's heat to the propellant creating thrust.

and in macross they probably use direct cycle since it's much lighter and more efficient, and with a pure fusion reactor, you don't have much risk of radiation release anyways so you don't need the heat exchange to contain radiation.

kind of off topic, but in the real world Nuclear powered engines didn't work because they couldn't produce enough thrust to counter the massive weight of all the shielding needed to put them on a B-36 sized bomber.

would it be possible to scale such an engine up enough to make it work with current day technology? I would think with size weight relative to thrust would be less of a problem.

[MDP310]

kind of off topic, but in the real world Nuclear powered engines didn't work because they couldn't produce enough thrust to counter the massive weight of all the shielding needed to put them on a B-36 sized bomber.

would it be possible to scale such an engine up enough to make it work with current day technology? I would think with size weight relative to thrust would be less of a problem.

You'd need a BIG plane to make it viable. It might be easier to have a big plane with a nuclear reactor, and a bunch of electrically-powered motors.

And I didn't know the moon was loaded with Helium-3! That's a lot easier to get to than Jupiter.

[Master Dex]

And I didn't know the moon was loaded with Helium-3! That's a lot easier to get to than Jupiter.

Yeah, it gets deposited there by solar winds. Our atmosphere keeps us from obtaining any useful amount of it.

[JB0]

the reaction warheads I believe are described as being fusion bombs with pair annihilation, which implies some form of matter/anti-matter reaction.

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Reaction_Weapon.

The reaction weapons USED to be fusion in SDF Macross, but by the time of Seven they're antimatter.

That's how I read it.

Just to add another PoV, but one that actually handles ALL of the text instead of ignoring parts to complicate it needlessly.

The "By 2045" STRONGLY implies a change in usage as time passed.

[miles316]

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Reaction_Weapon.

The reaction weapons USED to be fusion in SDF Macross, but by the time of Seven they're antimatter.

That's how I read it.

Just to add another PoV, but one that actually handles ALL of the text instead of ignoring parts to complicate it needlessly.

The "By 2045" STRONGLY implies a change in usage as time passed.

Does it use anti proton catalyzed fusion were the annihilation of the anti matter and matter releases radiation (neutron, Gama est) to fuse the deuterium fuel releasing energy.

[MegaX]

Can someone help me find an english torrent sub of Macross Frontier episode 1 deculture edition?

I've tried this site, but all I could come up with were high-def raws, spanish and french subs.

Edited March 10, 2009 by MegaX

[anime52k8]

Can someone help me find an english torrent sub of Macross Frontier episode 1 deculture edition?

I've tried this site, but all I could come up with were high-def raws, spanish and french subs.

:edit: never mind...

Edited March 10, 2009 by anime52k8

[Zinjo]

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Reaction_Weapon.

The reaction weapons USED to be fusion in SDF Macross, but by the time of Seven they're antimatter.

That's how I read it.

I'd agree that it is a form of limited control, matter/anti-matter reaction.

However it is most likely that the initial reaction weapons (SDFM) were Hydrogen bombs (aka Thermonuclear), considering their capability to destroy Zentreadi sized capital ships. Fission (Atomic) bombs would not produce sufficient destructive capability outside of an atmosphere.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Zinjo

[RedWolf]

Anybody know the figures on the Macross II Factory Satellite?

Edited March 11, 2009 by RedWolf

[miles316]

Anybody know the figures on the Macross II Factory Satellite?

Are you talking about the fentrady automated factory satellite they jacket a year after the end of the first space war.

if is the states are on Macross mecha manual.

[Killer Robot]

Are you talking about the fentrady automated factory satellite they jacket a year after the end of the first space war.

if is the states are on Macross mecha manual.

Macross II is a different timeline. As I understand, in that timeline Earth didn't capture a factory satellite until decades later, and it was apparently a different model/size as well. I don't know more than that, though.

[Zinjo]

Macross II is a different timeline. As I understand, in that timeline Earth didn't capture a factory satellite until decades later, and it was apparently a different model/size as well. I don't know more than that, though.

Seito would know the details about that, since MII is his passion...

[Roy Focker]

Not a question but a request.

Does anyone got a good lineart picture of the VF-X2 Flight Suit? Just black and white and from head to toe.

[Repiv_Onex]

Does the König Monster carries extra Warheads/rounds for the 4 Big Canons on top of its "head" so that it could reload itself and ready for the next 4 rounds?

Any reply would be appreciated.

[sketchley]

Yes. It'd be quite silly to dispatch a giant variable artillery piece, and have it only able to fire any one cannon only once.

Macross Chronicle states that the HWR-00 Monster has 28 rounds/shells. It's entirely plausible that the VB-6 also has 28 rounds; given that it's based off of the HWR-00 Monster and that there hasn't been a radical change to the body (mind you, it's possible that there are more rounds, if the VB-6 fires them electromagnetically, and not using gun powder, like the HWR-00 Monster. But that's beyond the scope of your question.)

[Repiv_Onex]

Yes. It'd be quite silly to dispatch a giant variable artillery piece, and have it only able to fire any one cannon only once.

Macross Chronicle states that the HWR-00 Monster has 28 rounds/shells. It's entirely plausible that the VB-6 also has 28 rounds; given that it's based off of the HWR-00 Monster and that there hasn't been a radical change to the body (mind you, it's possible that there are more rounds, if the VB-6 fires them electromagnetically, and not using gun powder, like the HWR-00 Monster. But that's beyond the scope of your question.)

Cool, thanks for reply! Amazing that I just thought of this question despite being a long time Macross fan who loves VB-6 alot.

[Gubaba]

Does anyone know which Studio Nue Enertainment Bible has Macross stories in it...Vol. 1, Vol. 2, or both?

[miles316]

Were The Zentradi hunting them down because no one told them to stop, or were the Supervision Army still waging war on the PC/Zentradi.

[Master Dex]

Most likely the Supervision Army war was all but done. The Zentradi were ordered to eradicate all traces of them though so they were making sure that there were none left. It is possible remnants still exist and are active, but I don't think there is an all out war still going on. If so I think we would have seen evidence of Supervision Army activity, all we have seen that humanity encountered in the galaxy are Zentradi, Protodeviln, and Vajra (and the protodeviln were in stasis originally so they almost don't count). The Zola are another race but not one they warred with, even so the fact that they encountered all these and not Supervision Army remnants most likely means they aren't around much anymore if at all.

[Gubaba]

Were The Zentradi hunting them down because no one told them to stop, or were the Supervision Army still waging war on the PC/Zentradi.

As far as we know, it's the latter.

Let's face it...the nature of the Supervision Army is one of the least-explored aspects of the Macross Universe. They're mentioned at the beginning, get brought up towards the end of the series, and then get brought up again the Macross 7 in a way that seems like it should explain them, but really doesn't.

Me, I'm hoping for a Chronicle World Guide Sheet on them. Until then...it's a mystery.

[Zinjo]

Were The Zentradi hunting them down because no one told them to stop, or were the Supervision Army still waging war on the PC/Zentradi.

Gubaba really hit the nail on the head.

We know the SA were once under PD mind control, yet through the use of Anima Spiritia soldiers the PC were able to imprison the PD. This same ability is capable of breaking the PD mind control as demonstrated in M7.

The questions that remain are:

1. Are the SA still under mind control and following last known orders?

2. Are the SA freed from mind control and continuing to fight for some unknown reason?

3. Are the SA freed from mind control and continuing to fight for their very lives?

4. Are the SA ultimately wiped out or essentially so?

The facts as presented thus far (if I make a mistake any seasoned member is invited to correct me):

1. The Zentreadi once had an inhibitor to keep them from attacking their micron PC masters, but it was removed to allow them to fight the mind controlled SA which comprised both PC & Zentreadi soldiers.

2. After the PD war the PC were only able to reinstitute the inhibitor on a "portion" of their Zentreadi army.

3. The collateral damage of the Zentreadi / SA fighting was the near annhilliation of the PC society.

4. The Anima Spiritia ability is capable of assisting in the imprisonment of the PD entities, as well as being able to break the PD mind control.

5. The SA and Zentreadi were still actively engaged in hostilities as of 2010...

[RogueTrooper]

I kinda assumed that the war was stilling going one between the Zentradi and SA because Milia said that she had been in hundreds of battle and shes only 15.

But then why would such a huge Zentran fleet hunt down one small SA gunboat?

I was wonder about the leg tail fins for the the VF-1S Max and Milia, are the numbering on them in black or white 303 or 202, seen various sources which have both.

[Zinjo]

I kinda assumed that the war was stilling going one between the Zentradi and SA because Milia said that she had been in hundreds of battle and shes only 15.

But then why would such a huge Zentran fleet hunt down one small SA gunboat?

Most likely a clean up mission. Given the size of the galaxy, it is no surprise that it took them 10 years to track it down.

It also gives one a sense of how much the Zentreadi feel threatened by the SA. To have standing orders to not let any get away, at all!

[miles316]

Most likely a clean up mission. Given the size of the galaxy, it is no surprise that it took them 10 years to track it down.

It also gives one a sense of how much the Zentreadi feel threatened by the SA. To have standing orders to not let any get away, at all!

So if the NUNS discovered a surviving SA ship, base, fleet would the Zentreadi demand it be destroyed after having the war go on for tens of thousands of years, and becoming ingrained in their culture (not singing) being incapable of forgetting the animosity/programing.

[azrael]

So if the NUNS discovered a surviving SA ship, base, fleet would the Zentreadi demand it be destroyed after having the war go on for tens of thousands of years, and becoming ingrained in their culture (not singing) being incapable of forgetting the animosity/programing.

That would be up to whomever is in charge.

[Master Dex]

I thought Milia despite her looks was much older than just 15. Don't the Zentradi have rather long life spans being genetically engineered clones?

[Beltane70]

I thought Milia despite her looks was much older than just 15. Don't the Zentradi have rather long life spans being genetically engineered clones?

There are a few pieces of reference material that do indeed, state that Milia is 15 years old. However, it's also quite possible that the age refers to that particular body. I will admit that I'm stretching things a bit, though!

[JB0]

I kinda assumed that the war was stilling going one between the Zentradi and SA because Milia said that she had been in hundreds of battle and shes only 15.

But then why would such a huge Zentran fleet hunt down one small SA gunboat?

Possible that they didn't know how or where it ran. What if it was headed back to a major SA base?

As I recall, they assumed the SA had formed an alliance with Earth when they initially arrived here.

As far as Millia's age goes... she's a front-line soldier that gets high-risk operations. I would assume 15 is OLD for her job, if she's been fighting since the day she came out of the clone chamber.

Compendium says Kamjin is 23, and that's the only other Zentradi I see with an age. It's safe to assume Britai, Exedol, and Bodol are a good bit older(both from art style, and Bodol's statements about culture in DYRL).

It's quite possible that commanders have durable bodies with extended lifespans(or immortal brains in a jar if they're in DYRL?) but the lower-level troops don't.

A fleet commander's experience is a lot more valuable than the guy shooting the gun, after all.

I've said this a few times already, but it's really a shame how little we know about the zentradi.

Edited March 18, 2009 by JB0

[Gubaba]

As far as Millia's age goes... she's a front-line soldier that gets high-risk operations. I would assume 15 is OLD for her job, if she's been fighting since the day she came out of the clone chamber.

Compendium says Kamjin is 23, and that's the only other Zentradi I see with an age. It's safe to assume Britai, Exedol, and Bodol are a good bit older(both from art style, and Bodol's statements about culture in DYRL).

It's quite possible that commanders have durable bodies with extended lifespans(or immortal brains in a jar if they're in DYRL?) but the lower-level troops don't.

A fleet commander's experience is a lot more valuable than the guy shooting the gun, after all.

I've said this a few times already, but it's really a shame how little we know about the zentradi.

I've seen Britai's age listed as 34, for what it's worth. I've never seen an age for Exsedol or Bodolzaa, however. I'd imagine that SDFM Bodolzaa is nowhere near as old as DYRL Bodolzaa, but that's just me.