Newbie Questions on Macross

[edwin3060]

*WHISH!*

(That's the sound of that one flying right over my head...I don't follow you. )

Trekkie joke... The Klingons in Star Trek liked Shakespeare's plays so much (especially Macbeth) that they translated it all into Klingon.

I'm not ashamed to admit that I know it! (Ok maybe a little )

[edwin3060]

This one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOchQT2Adew

Where did you find such an amazing masterpiece! Kudos to you! We need to remaster these youtube videos and distribute them to the world! Excluding the US of A of course.

[Alemann]

If Boddole Zer was the Supreme Commander of the 118th Boddole Zer Main Fleet I presume there has to be at least 117 other Main Fleets. The question is: Is there somebody above Boddole Zer and if there is, does he have a superior to? Who is or are the main governing body of the entire zentradi race?

[azrael]

If Boddole Zer was the Supreme Commander of the 118th Boddole Zer Main Fleet I presume there has to be at least 117 other Main Fleets. The question is: Is there somebody above Boddole Zer and if there is, does he have a superior to? Who is or are the main governing body of the entire zentradi race?

Well, Protoculture was ultimately in charge of the Zentradi before they died off. If there ever was a figurehead between the Protoculture and the Zentradi, has never been addressed.

[Alemann]

Well, Protoculture was ultimately in charge of the Zentradi before they died off. If there ever was a figurehead between the Protoculture and the Zentradi, has never been addressed.

And during Space War I? Did Boddole Zer answer to someone? If it wasn't explained in the series was it at least implied?

Edited December 17, 2008 by Alemann

[Mr March]

There was no implied leadership beyond Bodolzaa.

Something else to keep in mind regarding the Zentradi is the ridiculous age of the conflict between themselves and the remnants of the Supervision Army. We're talking hundreds of thousands of years. Some Zentradi Army fleets may still retain their number designation from tens or hundreds of thousands of years ago. The fleets might not be sequential any more either; some may have been destroyed (in fact, we can probably count on that as fact).

There could be an overall leader of the Zentradi that we just didn't see, but then again, maybe there is no leader. The Protoculture were originally the leaders of the Zentradi race. When the Zentradi stopped following the orders of the Protoculture after the breakdown of the old Stellar Empire, perhaps the senior ranking officer in the Zentradi Army assumed command of all Zentradi forces. But who knows what became of him/her and whether or not anyone replaced that leader once he/she died. And given the division between males and females in Zentradi society, would they even agree on one person as leader? Sure Laplamiz and Milia followed Bodolzaa's orders the same as Britai and Kamjin (well, maybe not Kamjin), but there's a big difference between following a fleet leader and following the leader of the whole species. I can't imagine either side accepting one sex or the other.

This question does raise some other interesting points to ponder. If the Zentradi did in fact have a central authority beyond the "main fleets", why wouldn't they have a "proportional response" to the destruction of a main fleet? Sure there are supposedly 1,000 to 2,000 main fleets out there. But Bodolzaa considered the 1,200 ships of the Adoclass fleet a "large number of ships", even though both Britai and Bodolzaa knew the 118th main fleet had 4,795,122 warships. So 1 main fleet in 1,000/2,000 is a much more significant ratio by comparison. With the loss of a main fleet considered significant, one would think the Zentradi would have formed some kind of response by now, unless the Zentradi have no central authority beyond the main fleets.

I think it's quite possible there is no Zentradi central authority. Communication between fleets doesn't seem to be all that good. Commander Dagao of the Factory Satellite certainly didn't seem up to date on Britai's status. Chlore didn't realize Milia was part of the UN Spacy until encountering her as a miclone, despite the fact this was now some 37 years after Space War I. It appears that the Zentradi "main fleets" are largely autonomous and not under any kind of central command of any sort.

[azrael]

And during Space War I? Did Boddole Zer answer to someone? If it wasn't explained in the series was it at least implied?

As I said, it's never been addressed, implied, alluded to, suggested, expressed directly or indirectly, hinted, insinuated, proposed, evoked, inferred, etc. Am I forgetting any synonyms?

[Gubaba]

This one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOchQT2Adew

Wow...I was just joking. I can't believe it's real...and it's not half bad, to boot.

Trekkie joke... The Klingons in Star Trek liked Shakespeare's plays so much (especially Macbeth) that they translated it all into Klingon.

I'm not ashamed to admit that I know it! (Ok maybe a little )

Thank you. Understanding has finally been reached.

(And I'm not ashamed that I didn't know it. )

As I said, it's never been addressed, implied, alluded to, suggested, expressed directly or indirectly, hinted, insinuated, proposed, evoked, inferred, etc. Am I forgetting any synonyms?

Hmmm...there was something that I wasn't sure how to translate in the Chronicle (World Guide Sheet: Zentradi: the bit about Zentradi History) about possibly some kind of "Culture Master," but, as I said, I may have been reading it wrong. And anyway, the guy would've been long dead before the Zentradi came to earth, so I suppose it makes no difference either way...

But still, it might be something.

[JB0]

And given the division between males and females in Zentradi society, would they even agree on one person as leader? Sure Laplamiz and Milia followed Bodolzaa's orders the same as Britai and Kamjin (well, maybe not Kamjin), but there's a big difference between following a fleet leader and following the leader of the whole species. I can't imagine either side accepting one sex or the other.

The segregation wasn't as severe in the TV series as DYRL, though.

There didn't seem to be any significant antipathy between genders in the TV show. In fact, Britai was shocked that the Lap'Lamiz fleet was replacing him. While post-DYRL, this could be seen as "Wait, wait... .you're sending a WOMAN to do a MAN'S job?", the original context was more along the line of "Holy crap, this is THAT big a deal?"

And the spies were CLEARLY in awe that they were being delivered to the Macross by Millia.

So the gender segregation didn't look to be any sort of dispute. You just didn't have co-ed ships.

...

Personally, I thought it was interesting that the "elite" soldiers were women. I wonder if that's just the Lap'Lamiz fleet specifically is awesome, or if women were the "special ops" Zentradi forces.

This question does raise some other interesting points to ponder. If the Zentradi did in fact have a central authority beyond the "main fleets", why wouldn't they have a "proportional response" to the destruction of a main fleet? Sure there are supposedly 1,000 to 2,000 main fleets out there. But Bodolzaa considered the 1,200 ships of the Adoclass fleet a "large number of ships", even though both Britai and Bodolzaa knew the 118th main fleet had 4,795,122 warships. So 1 main fleet in 1,000/2,000 is a much more significant ratio by comparison. With the loss of a main fleet considered significant, one would think the Zentradi would have formed some kind of response by now, unless the Zentradi have no central authority beyond the main fleets.

I think it's quite possible there is no Zentradi central authority. Communication between fleets doesn't seem to be all that good. Commander Dagao of the Factory Satellite certainly didn't seem up to date on Britai's status. Chlore didn't realize Milia was part of the UN Spacy until encountering her as a miclone, despite the fact this was now some 37 years after Space War I. It appears that the Zentradi "main fleets" are largely autonomous and not under any kind of central command of any sort.

On the other hand, Milia and Chlore had maintained a rivalry all during her active Zentradi career. That requires a good degree of communication.

Chlore may have assumed she was dead when she stopped sending kill updates.

It's possible that Bodol was making some sort of power play by hoarding information. Or saving face by keeping his fleet's cultural contamination a secret. He may've intended to announce that he'd discovered and scoured a cultured world AFTER he came back. Because, really... what sort of backwater goofball planet could hope to resist an entire fleet?

They could've also decided that when Bodol didn't come back, it was time to heed the ancient legends and leave the worlds of the miclones alone. Even when the jerks came back and jacked a factory satellite later.

"Leave 'em alone. Let 'em have it.

"They stole a factory satellite. Those things are hard to come by these days."

"They also vaped a Fulbtzs-Berrentzs. Under full battle alert. They fought threw the whole attached fleet to get there. They threw reaction weapons around like ration packs in the process. Do you wanna be the guy leading the recapture mission?"

"When you put it that way... "

"Let 'em have it?"

"Yeah..."

And we DO know that the ships from Bodol's fleet retreated somewhere. Presumably, they would be joining up with some other force, not roving the galaxy as a lost fleet. Otherwise there's no point to retreating.

Of course, there's no clue in the franchise either way.

There may be even be something above Bodol, but not the top.

It's.... an interesting topic. I DEMAND KAWAMORI ADDRESS IT IN HIS NEW MECHA BASKETBALL ANIME!

[akt_m]

Wow...I was just joking. I can't believe it's real...and it's not half bad, to boot.

Yeah i know... 

I just knew there was a portuguese version because it was what got me attached to macross.

Edited December 18, 2008 by akt_m

[Alemann]

Is the conflict between zentradi and the Supervision Army still going on somewhere in the galaxy?

[VFTF1]

Re: Zendradi commander -

I had always just assumed that the fleets were operating under the imperative of their original orders - issued hundreds of thousands of years ago by leaders of the Protoculture who were long dead by the time of Space War I.

So - WHY were the Zendradi still following their routine combat orders?

Because they knew no other means of life. In fact, it seems that fleet commanders like Boldoza specifically understood that in order to maintain the Zendradi, they HAD to fight wars, avoid contact with culture and annihilate it. It was kind of like a prime directive that gave meaning to their lives.

I don't think they need to have a central authority to find themselves involved in senseless warfare breeding more warfare. Humans sure don't.

Pete

[sketchley]

Is the conflict between zentradi and the Supervision Army still going on somewhere in the galaxy?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: we haven't seen any indication either for or against the conflict continuing after it was briefly mentioned a couple of times in SDF:M. Given how long the conflict has been continuing, and the scale of the galaxy, it's extremely probable that it is continuing, and the chance of the UNS/NUNS coming across it increases proportionatly to the number of ships exploring and the amount of area explored.

[VFTF1]

and the chance of the UNS/NUNS coming across it increases proportionatly to the number of ships exploring and the amount of area explored.

Puts on nerdy glasses and once again speaks in nerdy voice:

Actually - given that the universe is infinite, then the proportionate likelihood of running across such a conflict remains constant independent of how many fleets go out into the universe, unless we posit that the conflict takes place in a finite scope - for instance our galaxy (which can be conventionally measured).

That said - snort - it seems to me that it would be foolhardy, given the existence of other dimmensions (established in Macross 7) and the interdimensional fold ability of the Vajra race (MF) to presume that conflict between these races is limited to only our own galaxy given the Protoculture did have super dimmensional fold capacity and one might even therefore hypothesize that some where out there - remnants of the Stellar Republic still exist and have managed to escape the war - much like human culture "escaped" the war ravaged confines of Earth after SW I.

snort.

Pete

who actually has 20/20 vision and doesn't wear glasses

[Mr March]

We don't even need to count the universe. The Milky Way Galaxy is so vast and there are so many stars that even if there are millions of Zentradi and/or Supervision Army ships flying around, the likelihood of randomly encountering a fleet is very small. This topic came up before and I have been meaning to come up with some probability scenarios to post on my website. I have to do that.

[Master Dex]

We don't even need to count the universe. The Milky Way Galaxy is so vast and there are so many stars that even if there are millions of Zentradi and/or Supervision Army ships flying around, the likelihood of randomly encountering a fleet is very small. This topic came up before and I have been meaning to come up with some probability scenarios to post on my website. I have to do that.

Nothing more exciting than a probability scenario. Shower us in the greatness of your website's collected wisdom Mr. March.

I'm not quite sure why I felt like saying something so strange like that... but in truth probability scenarios would be kind of cool.

[sketchley]

Who said anything about the universe? The Milky Way galaxy is finite, and even if the chance is insignificantly low, it still increases.

[RedWolf]

Also I'd like to point out... WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD LOOK FOR A MILITANT GIANT RACE THAT CAN WIPE YOU OUT?!

There are only three known instances of Deculturing Zentradi.

Even UN Spacy back then in Macross 7 Encore saw that Minmay was a fluke.

Hell I think Mylene only works on the few Yuri in Chlore's fleet. Fortunately for Basara most of them were straight and the few Yuri were bisexual.

The rogue 33rd Marines were lolicons except for Temjin, who likely prefers mature women like Laplamiz.

UN Spacy and later NUNS via info of guys like Exsedol probably avoids known Zentradi hot spots.

[Gubaba]

Also I'd like to point out... WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD LOOK FOR A MILITANT GIANT RACE THAT CAN WIPE YOU OUT?!

There are only three known instances of Deculturing Zentradi.

Even UN Spacy back then in Macross 7 Encore saw that Minmay was a fluke.

Hell I think Mylene only works on the few Yuri in Chlore's fleet. Fortunately for Basara most of them were straight and the few Yuri were bisexual.

The rogue 33rd Marines were lolicons except for Temjin, who likely prefers mature women like Laplamiz.

UN Spacy and later NUNS via info of guys like Exsedol probably avoids known Zentradi hot spots.

I would imagine that some kind of news probably got back to other Zentradi, and they may not be all that eager to have some kind of conflict with the civilization responsible for the destruction of Bodolzaa's fleet, either.

Mutual avoidance + the huge size of the Milky Way = not much contact.

[Killer Robot]

I would imagine that some kind of news probably got back to other Zentradi, and they may not be all that eager to have some kind of conflict with the civilization responsible for the destruction of Bodolzaa's fleet, either.

Mutual avoidance + the huge size of the Milky Way = not much contact.

I could add that Exedol said early on that the ancient battle instructions said not to interfere with miclone worlds, before he was overruled because humans had the Supervision Army vessel the fleet had been chasing as well as apparent sources of reaction weaponry and ship repair methods. From there, it was the Zentradi just digging themselves into a hole of curiosity and cultural exposure. If word got out about the destruction of an entire fleet, that's all the more reason for any other commander to take it as an object lesson about why it's so important to stick to the manual.

[RedWolf]

Well according to the Zentradi file on the Protoculture non-interference directive not all fleets received the order to reinstate the directive.

The Protoculture had to take down that order because the Protodevlin were including Protoculture into their Supervision Army.

By the end of the war pretty much left the chain of command in shambles.

Some got the order while others like Golg Boddole Zer's fleet did not receive the reactivation of the order.

Edited December 18, 2008 by RedWolf

[sketchley]

Avoiding the fleets are good, but what if they come looking for NUNS/UNS?

Aside from the Bodolza fleet of SWI, there's also:

(cannon): Chlore fleet, fleet that took the Milky Dolls (Digital Mission VF-X)

(semi-cannon): Neld Fleet, Marduk fleet

That's a rate of one main fleet every 15 years (canon) or 10 years (semi-canon). Ouch :!:

[RedWolf]

Avoiding the fleets are good, but what if they come looking for NUNS/UNS?

Bust open the seals on reaction weapons, charge the Macross cannons, batten down the hatches, send out your aces, ready the idol or rockstar.

And pray.

[dreamweaver13]

This one? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOchQT2Adew

cool. i'd hazard a guess that the translation is more accurate than homotech, portuguese accent for "Hikaru" notwithstanding.

[dreamweaver13]

Bust open the seals on reaction weapons, charge the Macross cannons, batten down the hatches, send out your aces, ready the idol or rockstar.

And pray.

AND sing Silent Night in japanese.

[Morpheus]

I wish we can have a Macross MEGA FAQ, where all the common Q&A are listed, it will allow faster assimilation for new members

[sketchley]

I wish we can have a Macross MEGA FAQ, where all the common Q&A are listed, it will allow faster assimilation for new members

Feel free to comb through the Newbie Question boards and make your own.

[Master Dex]

Truthfully it sounds like something I could easily see Mr March trying to add to his site for some reason . However this forum would probably make a good place for that if it was created as some fan collaboration project.

[VFTF1]

Such a FAQ could even replace the Forum. Instead of having any kind of conversations, we would just all constantly add a question (and an answer after wiki/googling it) to the FAQ. All doubt and emotion would be purged. There would only be a pure, unadulterated stream of factual information which would eternally grow until each and every one of us had perfect and equal knowledge of Macross therefore canceling out the need for individual members.

The Macross Instrumentality Project.

Pete

[taksraven]

UN Spacy and later NUNS via info of guys like Exsedol probably avoids known Zentradi hot spots.

What do they do, use massive ropes to fence off the areas?

Taksraven

[taksraven]

I wish we can have a Macross MEGA FAQ, where all the common Q&A are listed, it will allow faster assimilation for new members

I've thought about the same idea. It really is needed if people want to avoid constantly repeating themselves here constantly repeating themselves here constantly repeating themselves here constantly repeating themselves here.............

I think putting together a list of questions would be easy (eg, What/Who are the Protoculture?), but writing the answers may cause a bit of contention.

How about we put together a list of questions for starters? (This would require its own thread)

How about it mods, Graham, Shawn? Would the powers that be support this venture?

Taksraven

[Mr March]

I built the Macropedia as an in-universe FAQ (with a few exceptions). However, a franchise FAQ written from the real world perspective would be ideal. You fellas should build one.

I also wanted to build a simple "Visual Timeline" of the Macross anime productions, using the title graphics of each series. But I don't have them all and no way to obtain the ones I'm missing.

Edited December 20, 2008 by Mr March

[Beltane70]

What about the title graphics from the official website?

[Mr March]

They're kinda small. You know me, everything has to be high resolution so I can make some monstrous wallpaper out of it

Seriously, I know its a pain of me to always insist on high resolution images, but that's the one reason the M3 looks as good as it does. I do want to make a visual time line, really badly, but I want it done right with sharp, detailed images.

Edited December 21, 2008 by Mr March

[Master Dex]

They're kinda small. You know me, everything has to be high resolution so I can make some monstrous wallpaper out of it

Seriously, I know its a pain of me to always insist on high resolution images, but that's the one reason the M3 looks as good as it does. I do want to make a visual time line, really badly, but I want it done right with sharp, detailed images.

It is no pain March, that is something admirable about your work in fact. If I want small pictures of VFs I can google search and find plenty. However nice big pictures with details and information to go along with them, your site is always the one to which I've turned.