Newbie Questions on Macross

[Beltane70]

I don't think that Kawamori has a preference considering that he has said on numerous occasions that the real story of Macross was somewhere between the TV series and DYRL. To me, Macross Frontier reinforces this belief, especially in the 12th episode when we see Zentraedi soldiers wearing both TV series and DYRL style uniforms.

[Killer Robot]

Long ago Kawamori said in an interview that the "true events" of Space War 1 were somewhere between the television and film tellings. However, since that interview it has been established that DYRL was an in-setting movie released in 2031, with events condensed and altered to push a message of cultural preservation and vigilance against the dangers other Zentradi fleets still posed to human civilization. Since Macross 7, it appears that the canon of the setting has been like the TV plotline(e.g. Zentradi vs Supervision Army rather than Zentradi vs. Meltrandi, human-sized Max and Milia) with the visual style of DYRL (e.g. Zentradi with pointed ears and more inhuman-looking officers, Zentradi flagship design, etc.). Since exact events of SW1 have been touched on only vaguely in more recent series though, there's a lot of speculation. Perhaps the upcoming manga retelling of Minmay's story will help settle the issue, if I understand correctly.

[JB0]

Didn't he also say the PS2 game would be the "definitive version" of Space War 1?

...

And then it had independent TV and movie storylines.

[azrael]

Didn't he also say the PS2 game would be the "definitive version" of Space War 1?

...

And then it had independent TV and movie storylines.

Yes he did. It followed the TV storyline, up to a point.

[Mr March]

There is no explanation. Kawamori and Co. will take elements from both the TV and Film versions of SWI while ignoring any continuity issues that might arise from merging the two. That appears to be the only definitive answer we're ever likely to get. And ultimately, even Kawamori himself must bow to canon (despite what he may say during interviews well after the fact). He can retcon whatever he likes; it's his creation after all. But the moment a contradiction appears between the anime productions, even Kawamori's own theory is blown out of the water, leaving us all back at square one

[taksraven]

There is no explanation. Kawamori and Co. will take elements from both the TV and Film versions of SWI while ignoring any continuity issues that might arise from merging the two. That appears to be the only definitive answer we're ever likely to get. And ultimately, even Kawamori himself must bow to canon (despite what he may say during interviews well after the fact). He can retcon whatever he likes; it's his creation after all. But the moment a contradiction appears between the anime productions, even Kawamori's own theory is blown out of the water, leaving us all back at square one

If anybody thinks that Macross has flexible canon and continuity issues, they should look at Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. It was reproduced across nearly every available media and I don't think that there were any two versions that were the same.

It used to annoy me but now I enjoy the way that Macross draws elements from its own different histories. I think that SF that tries too hard to follow a single canon usually ends up tripping itself up and limiting what can be done. (Star Trek is a good example)

Taksraven

[Gubaba]

If anybody thinks that Macross has flexible canon and continuity issues, they should look at Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. It was reproduced across nearly every available media and I don't think that there were any two versions that were the same.

It used to annoy me but now I enjoy the way that Macross draws elements from its own different histories. I think that SF that tries too hard to follow a single canon usually ends up tripping itself up and limiting what can be done. (Star Trek is a good example)

Taksraven

Agreed. After getting my panties twisted over the WTF-1, I finally learned How to Stop Worrying and Love the Continuity Roller Coaster.

That said, the "TV series or DYRL" question never bothered me all that much...it's all fiction, so why worry about which one "happened"?

[Sdf Prime]

That said, the "TV series or DYRL" question never bothered me all that much...it's all fiction, so why worry about which one "happened"?

Thats true it is all fiction. I saw DYRL before I knew the movie was even called DYRL all I knew about it was that it was called MACROSS and I loved the movie. Now I am better educated and still love the movie.

Well to satisfy my curiosity what was the PS2 game story line? Just a combination of TV and DYRL? Were their additional scenes not found either the TV version or the DYRL version?

[Mr March]

I couldn't agree more. Though it does make things difficult sometimes for those of us fans that love to engage in "fictional anthropology" of our beloved Macross universe, the ultimate benchmark is whether a fantastic Macross production results from Kawamori and Co. Everything else matters not

[taksraven]

I couldn't agree more. Though it does make things difficult sometimes for those of us fans that love to engage in "fictional anthropology" of our beloved Macross universe, the ultimate benchmark is whether a fantastic Macross production results from Kawamori and Co. Everything else matters not

Having the variable universe as well as the variable fighter does make things difficult if you ever want to make a prequel, however. (Thats the closest to criticism of Macross Zero you will hear from me) I'm not saying that Zero was a mistake but there were always going to be continuity issues as a result. (But nothing as dumb or annoying as the Vader-really-built-C3PO garbage).

Taksraven

[Morpheus]

Hmm, I'm wondering about one thing, I think most Navy/Air Force pilot (non-VF pilot) will be able to pilot the valk in fighter mode and probably in gerwalk mode, while getting completely clueless in batroid mode (hint: SDF:M hikaru first sortie in VF-1D).

I wonder if a destroid pilot board a VF in batroid mode, will he able to use it in gerwalk or firghter mode?

[azrael]

Hmm, I'm wondering about one thing, I think most Navy/Air Force pilot (non-VF pilot) will be able to pilot the valk in fighter mode and probably in gerwalk mode, while getting completely clueless in batroid mode (hint: SDF:M hikaru first sortie in VF-1D).

I wonder if a destroid pilot board a VF in batroid mode, will he able to use it in gerwalk or firghter mode?

A better example is Shin and Edgar training with Roy. Shin was a USN aviator.

Now to the question, probably not. Unless the Destroid pilot had flight experience. The Chronicle mentions in the Destroid entry that Destroids were mainly a UN Army thing (at least when it was conceived). So unless the Destroid pilot had some flight training and experience, they may have a hard time piloting that thing outside of Battroid mode. But, GERWALK may be viable mode for Destroid pilots wanting to get more comfortable with Fighter mode.

[edwin3060]

A better example is Shin and Edgar training with Roy. Shin was a USN aviator.

Now to the question, probably not. Unless the Destroid pilot had flight experience. The Chronicle mentions in the Destroid entry that Destroids were mainly a UN Army thing (at least when it was conceived). So unless the Destroid pilot had some flight training and experience, they may have a hard time piloting that thing outside of Battroid mode. But, GERWALK may be viable mode for Destroid pilots wanting to get more comfortable with Fighter mode.

Maybe an added usefulness of GERWALK mode is that it helps both aviators and destroid pilots to transition to the form that they are least comfortable with! You have to figure that some of the better destroid pilots on the Macross were probably reassigned to fill up the ranks in the VF squadrons, afterall.

[JB0]

Well to satisfy my curiosity what was the PS2 game story line? Just a combination of TV and DYRL? Were their additional scenes not found either the TV version or the DYRL version?

As I understood it, it was a faithful retelling of the TV series AND a faithful retelling of the movie.

At the beginning, you selected if you were serving on the Prometheus or ARMD-01, and that selected your story arc. As well as difficulty(with the DYRL path being significantly mroe difficult).

But this is hearsay, as I don't own the game.

[Mr March]

Perhaps initially in the 1999-2012 era, the different branches would train pilots specifically for their vehicles. The UN Army would train pilots just for Destroids, the UN Air Force/Spacy would train just for Valkyries, et cetera. But I would think that given the proliferation of variable vehicles later in the Macross history, most training distinctions would become blurred. The VB-6 König Monster in Macross Frontier is obviously a Destroid that requires the pilot to be trained if not the same, then similarly to a Valkyrie pilot. The Police Patroid in Macross 7 would require multi-mode training as well and so on.

I think that by the time the 2040-2059 eras arrive, most pilots/operators will be trained in very similar ways whether they pilot a valkyrie, a variable destroid or any other variable vehicle.

[shadow3393]

I remember that there were numbers for the VF-1 transformations, I was wondering if there are stated transformation times (ie fighter to gerwalk, fighter to battroid, gerwalk to battroid) for the newer valks?

[macnoob357]

If the vf-1 name is valkyrie then why is everybody calling all the vf's from 1 to 25 valkyries?

Or are their names fully designated vf-0 valkyrie phoenix or vf-19 excalibur valkyrie?

[Sulendil Ang]

If the vf-1 name is valkyrie then why is everybody calling all the vf's from 1 to 25 valkyries?

Or are their names fully designated vf-0 valkyrie phoenix or vf-19 excalibur valkyrie?

Actually, Valkyrie is the pet name for all variable fighters (and then some). From Macross Mecha Manual:

Valkyrie

The name for the first VF-1 variable fighter and adopted as a generic term to subsequently describe all the following variable fighters

I remember that there were numbers for the VF-1 transformations, I was wondering if there are stated transformation times (ie fighter to gerwalk, fighter to battroid, gerwalk to battroid) for the newer valks?

Unfortunately, no. So far, only VF-1 has such detailed informations. Kinda wish they also released the same data for the rest of the VF.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Sulendil Ang

[JB0]

It's like Xerox machines.

The PROPER term for a VF is Variable Fighter, but the first model to do it right had it's name applied informally to the entire concept.

[Zinjo]

Keep in mind the Valkyrie is the iconic fighter of SW1, so all surviving humanity would relate any variable fighter as a Valkyrie since everyone under the UNG would know what was being talked about.

As for Destroid pilots, I suspect that both the Army and Marines were trained in them before SW1. We do see destroids aboard the Macross and that is a naval vessel.

In the 2040's I'd suspect that destroid pilots could be made up largely of washed out VF pilots. If Gamlin's training was any indicator, the standards are fairly high.

[azrael]

It's like Xerox machines.

In some cases, it's a verb... "Can you xerox a copy for me?"

[edwin3060]

In some cases, it's a verb... "Can you xerox a copy for me?"

"Can you valkyrie that varja for me?" Hmmm... doesn't seem to work that well

[Mr March]

LOL No, that definitely worked for me

[MBR-04-Mk VI]

Is there a DRASTIC difference between the Macross Saga of ROBOTECH and the Japanese version "MACROSS"???

[azrael]

Is there a DRASTIC difference between the Macross Saga of ROBOTECH and the Japanese version "MACROSS"???

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=228

[JB0]

Is there a DRASTIC difference between the Macross Saga of ROBOTECH and the Japanese version "MACROSS"???

Robotech: Protoculture is a magic power source(later revealed to be a plant?).

Macross: Protoculture is an ancient alien civilization, literally the first culture in the galaxy.

[dreamweaver13]

Is there a DRASTIC difference between the Macross Saga of ROBOTECH and the Japanese version "MACROSS"???

woah, that's flame-bait if ever i saw one.

at least on any thread other than this newbie thread, it would be.

[Gubaba]

woah, that's flame-bait if ever i saw one.

at least on any thread other than this newbie thread, it would be.

Tell me about it. The Japanese version sucks. I much prefer Macross in the original Portuguese.

[RedWolf]

Tell me about it. The Japanese version sucks. I much prefer Macross in the original Portuguese.

That just like saying you like Shakespeare it in the original Klingon.

[Morpheus]

Is there a DRASTIC difference between the Macross Saga of ROBOTECH and the Japanese version "MACROSS"???

One drastic difference is Macross Saga in Homotech is in English while the ORIGINAL Macross is in Japanese.

Although I suspected that there are Zentraedi version of it somewhere.

[Gui]

[...]

Although I suspected that there are Zentraedi version of it somewhere.

That would own as hell!

[Gubaba]

That just like saying you like Shakespeare it in the original Klingon.

*WHISH!*

(That's the sound of that one flying right over my head...I don't follow you. )

[VFTF1]

Is there a DRASTIC difference between the Macross Saga of ROBOTECH and the Japanese version "MACROSS"???

Boy is there ever!

Robotech is the super awesome series of novels written by Jack McKinny and later animated and made into a super swell cartoon by Harmony Gold. It has been monsterously successful, and will soon have its' own oscar winning movie with Leo DiCaprio as Rick Hunter and Pamela Anderson as Lisa Hayes (Britney Spears will play Lyn Minmay).

Macross on the other hand is the evil bastard spawned when a Japanese criminal named Shoji Kawamori stole Robotech and brought it to Japan wheret he populace ignorantly thought it was his and gobbled it up - even though Kawamori changed the original Robotech in many ways. Then, in an even more insidious twist, a bootlegging company called Yam's Toe started producing bootleg robotech toys which has caused the death and deformation of millions of children while lining the pockets of the oppressor company.

Macross Wodl exists to reveal this truth to the people of Japan and make them realize what a gem Robotech is.

Welcome - I hope you join us in spreading the truth!

Pete

[NightmareEX]

Glad that prequel Macross Zero was not totally "molested" by HG and dump into Robotech Saga adaptation. Macek sux.

[akt_m]

Tell me about it. The Japanese version sucks. I much prefer Macross in the original Portuguese.

This one? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOchQT2Adew