Newbie Questions on Macross

[Mr March]

Oh, they are not THAT bad. Klan's ears aren't flag poles ala Lodoss War.

Basically, the difference pre-and-post Macross Frontier just boils down to character design/art style. The designers probably just wanted a quick and easy way for the audience to visually distinguish the Zentradi from the humans.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

when they changed the character designer?

Touche` my good sir. Touche`

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Oh, they are not THAT bad. Klan's ears aren't flag poles ala Lodoss War.

Basically, the difference pre-and-post Macross Frontier just boils down to character design/art style. The designers probably just wanted a quick and easy way for the audience to visually distinguish the Zentradi from the humans.

I know. I was just trying to emphases the difference. But it makes since that there like that to help the audience distinguish the difference between humans and zentrans.

[Mr March]

Well, just imagine what could have been.

Comparison pictures are my specialty

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Well, just imagine what could have been.

Comparison pictures are my specialty

You do them so well.

But yeah. Lodoss war is a little to out there on ear comparsions. klans are more Lord of the rings.

Edited December 4, 2008 by SkullLeaderVF-X

[eugimon]

Well, just imagine what could have been.

Comparison pictures are my specialty

w'oh! That fanpic of a blond Klan is t3h awesome!

[Killer Robot]

Even in Frontier, only the Pixies look to have bigger ears than the Zentradi in Plus and 7. Bilrer, Elmo, the soldiers on Gallia 4, and the shoppers at Folmo mall all seem to be really in line with Guld or the Zentradi in 7.

[Gubaba]

Even in Frontier, only the Pixies look to have bigger ears than the Zentradi in Plus and 7. Bilrer, Elmo, the soldiers on Gallia 4, and the shoppers at Folmo mall all seem to be really in line with Guld or the Zentradi in 7.

I stand by my first theory: that as the Zentradi became cultured, their ears got bigger ("the better to hear Minmay with, my dear). More culture = bigger ears.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

I have another question. How is the ammunition situated and feed into the gunpods that use clips; notably the Vf-11 and Vf-17's gun pods?The clips look too narrow to carry alot of ammunition and look to awkward to feed the rounds in the firing mechanism.

[VF5SS]

Klan looks like she has Zolan ears.

[Valkyrie addict]

maybe for zentradi ears are like boobs, come in wildly different shape and sizes

[sketchley]

I have another question. How is the ammunition situated and feed into the gunpods that use clips; notably the Vf-11 and Vf-17's gun pods?The clips look too narrow to carry alot of ammunition and look to awkward to feed the rounds in the firing mechanism.

Taking a closer look at the P-90 may answer your question. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90

Why the P-90? It is simular: clip stored 90 degrees to the barrel, narrow clip, high rate of fire, etc..

[Mr March]

I have another question. How is the ammunition situated and feed into the gunpods that use clips; notably the Vf-11 and Vf-17's gun pods?The clips look too narrow to carry alot of ammunition and look to awkward to feed the rounds in the firing mechanism.

Keep in mind the gun pod for the VF-11 Thunderbolt uses a much smaller 30mm shell as opposed to the larger 55mm shells of the older GU-11 gun pod for the VF-1 Valkyrie. The VF-17 Nightmare gun pod caliber is unknown, but it may be 30mm as well. Also, the original GU-11 55mm gun pod for the VF-1 Valkyrie never did carry that much ammunition anyway (it's carrying capacity was 200 rounds, in a cyclic feed belt that wasn't field swappable).

[Morpheus]

Well, just imagine what could have been.

Comparison pictures are my specialty

Deedlit >>>>>> Klan

All non-humans in Macross universe are frequently depicted having pointy ears IIRC.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Keep in mind the gun pod for the VF-11 Thunderbolt uses a much smaller 30mm shell as opposed to the larger 55mm shells of the older GU-11 gun pod for the VF-1 Valkyrie. The VF-17 Nightmare gun pod caliber is unknown, but it may be 30mm as well. Also, the original GU-11 55mm gun pod for the VF-1 Valkyrie never did carry that much ammunition anyway (it's carrying capacity was 200 rounds, in a cyclic feed belt that wasn't field swappable).

Damn. Only 200 rounds? What was the reason from going 55mm to 30mm? Was it to able to carry more rounds into combat? I would think the 55mm to be much more powerful then a 30mm, but being larger as you stated, carrying capacity would be limited. Also I still don't get how the rounds enter the firing mechanism even with the wiki page of the P90. This picture of the VF17's ammo clip just doesn't look very practical.

[hobbes221]

Also I still don't get how the rounds enter the firing mechanism even with the wiki page of the P90. This picture of the VF17's ammo clip just doesn't look very practical.

Off topic but take a look at this, it's around 2:53 and it shows how the mag works. And as far as I can recall the P90 has never had a jam of any kind so it works pretty well.

[azrael]

Damn. Only 200 rounds? What was the reason from going 55mm to 30mm? Was it to able to carry more rounds into combat? I would think the 55mm to be much more powerful then a 30mm, but being larger as you stated, carrying capacity would be limited.

Yah. A VF-0's GPU-9 35mm gunpod held 550 rounds of ammunition. Quite a difference compared to the SV-51's 150 rd. capacity Gsh-371 55mm gunpod. And yes, a 55mm shell is quite powerful. Although, the VF-25 sports a 58mm shell.

Also I still don't get how the rounds enter the firing mechanism even with the wiki page of the P90. This picture of the VF17's ammo clip just doesn't look very practical.

If you understand how a P90's magazine works, then the idea isn't far off from how VF magazines work. Although, VFs probably use a mechanical feeding system, but the point is still the same, it's a non-traditional method of a belt/drum system. Look at the Calico M960 SMG as another example.

[shadow3393]

Have any Macross Class or NMC folded by it's self in Storm Attacker Mode? I know there was an episode in Macross 7, where Battle 7 folded with City 7, but can't remember if it was City 7 that initiated the fold or if it was Battle 7.

Edited December 5, 2008 by shadow3393

[mewarmo990]

I've never seen any Macross-class fold while in attack mode, although I don't see how that would stop it from doing so. Both Battle 7 and City 7 would most likely each have their own fold generators in the event that one would have to jump without the other, but Macross Frontier showed that fold drives are capable of jumping other vessels in the vicinity as well, such as when the Frontier initiated a long-distance fold after linking up with its colony pods. Hmm.

[azrael]

Have any Macross Class or NMC folded by it's self in Storm Attacker Mode? I know there was an episode in Macross 7, where Battle 7 folded with City 7, but can't remember if it was City 7 that initiated the fold or if it was Battle 7.

M7 Episode 22. Battle 7 used up its energy folding in to where City 7 was being attacked and pulled into a star's gravity well. So they plugged in City 7's fold engine power system to Battle 7's fold system. And yes, Battle 7 was in Storm-Attacker mode.

[Mr March]

Damn. Only 200 rounds? What was the reason from going 55mm to 30mm? Was it to able to carry more rounds into combat? I would think the 55mm to be much more powerful then a 30mm, but being larger as you stated, carrying capacity would be limited. Also I still don't get how the rounds enter the firing mechanism even with the wiki page of the P90. This picture of the VF17's ammo clip just doesn't look very practical.

The gun pod calibers in Macross range all over and there doesn't appear to be any consistent reason why. Here is a list of the calibers we know:

GPU-9 (VF-0 Phoenix) 35mm with 550 rounds, no field swap

Gsh-371 (SV-51) 55mm with 120 rounds, +1 spare magazine

GU-11 (VF-1 Valkyrie) 55mm with 200 rounds, no field swap

not designated (VF-11 Thunderbolt) 30mm, +2 spare magazines

GA-22 (VA-3 Invader) 60mm, ammunition count/reload unknown

GU-17A (VF-25 Messiah) 58mm, ammunition count/reload unknown

SSL-9B Dragunov (VF-25G Messiah) 55mm, ammunition count unknown, + unknown number of spare magazines

The ever changing calibers in Macross likely means that the destructive potential of a given gun pod is more a function of munition design/material and muzzle velocity. All other factors being equal, a smaller, better designed bullet shot at a greater speed can be as destructive or more than a poorly designed, larger caliber bullet propelled at a much slower speed.

As for ammunition, try to put the gun pods in perspective. The average soldier uses an automatic rifle with typically no more than 20-30 rounds per clip. Now, they may carry much more ammunition, but the fact is they have to reload after only 30 shots (much less when fired in burst or auto). So a gun pod loaded with 120-200 rounds is quite significant, especially since they are much more accurate OverTechnology weapons.

Here is a look at the P90 clip which shows how the bullets pivot into firing position from the perpendicular position inside the magazine:

Now we don't know for sure if this is EXACTLY how the 30mm gun on the VF-11 Thunderbolt works, but it should at least give you an idea how such a clip would function.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Mr March

[sketchley]

And adding to MrMarch and hobbes221 support - the PN90's clip is a real world, working example with no anime magic or Otec.

Re: the VF-17's gun pod, there's a slim possibility that it is a beam firing weapon, and not a bullet firing weapon. If it is a bullet firing weapon, I can see a variation of the PN90's 90 degree turn coupled with a belt or whatever the equivalent is in the GU-11.

[akt_m]

Now i got curious to see how the bullet turns 90º in the clip.

Edited December 5, 2008 by akt_m

[Killer Robot]

The ever changing calibers in Macross likely means that the destructive potential of a given gun pod is more a function of munition design/material and muzzle velocity. All other factors being equal, a smaller, better designed bullet shot at a greater speed can be as destructive or more than a poorly designed, larger caliber bullet propelled at a much slower speed.

That's really a critical point. Choosing the right gun for a task is a complicated matter, since important concerns include not just caliber but muzzle velocity, rate of fire, type of target and expected engagements, and weight of weapon and ammuninition. Further, the final decision of which is best even for a given task is highly subjective and often heavily debated. The US military's 50 year use of a one size fits all policy for aircraft guns is more the exception than the rule, and driven largely by pushes for standardization and low emphasis on guns in modern US fighter design compared to in the Macross future: one might better look at the wide profusion of rounds used in other military applications or in small arms of any sort, and the fierce arguments over which is better for what use. If total standardization is not a primary goal, large changes in gunpod design over time are no surprise.

A second consideration is that of environment. With how much of weapon ballistics is based on interaction of the bullet and the atmosphere, a fighter that is going to mostly be used in space is going to have entirely different options for weapons design. One that might be used in atmospheres markedly different than Earth's will have different design considerations as well. Obviously VFs are all going to get guns that can be effective in atmospheric use, but if space combat is more common than atmospheric that's going to color the final choice of design.

Just as an addition, here's a comparison of .22LR ammunition, which was designed in the 19th century for hunting small game, with the .223 Remington, designed in the 1960s and the basis for the 5.56mm NATO round used in many modern military rifles. The caliber is nearly identical, but obviously that's about the only thing that is.

[Mr March]

I agree. Very good points. To go a step further, all the fictional elements of the Macross battlefield would have an impact upon the chosen caliber for a given variable fighter gun pod. Advances in Energy Converting Armor, advances in pin-point barrier technology, advances in ballistics, advances in electromagnetic technologies, and so on will all affect what kind of gun pod is needed. Then you have operational roles; what is a given variable fighter designed to do? Is the gun pod built for a main line fighter, fighter/bomber or strike fighter? All these factors could influence the caliber of a given gun pod.

[luke]

I have a question. Been looking throught the thread and I cant find it ... dont know if it has never been ask or if I missed it when looking.

In the Macross TV series Hikaru out ranks Max but in DYRL max out ranks Hikaru. I know that DYRL was a movie for the people in the TV series and that is confirmed in Macross 7 when they mention Mimmay and a movie about 35yrs in the past. Was it ever explained why they desided for Max pass Hikaru in rank?

[Master Dex]

I have a question. Been looking throught the thread and I cant find it ... dont know if it has never been ask or if I missed it when looking.

In the Macross TV series Hikaru out ranks Max but in DYRL max out ranks Hikaru. I know that DYRL was a movie for the people in the TV series and that is confirmed in Macross 7 when they mention Mimmay and a movie about 35yrs in the past. Was it ever explained why they desided for Max pass Hikaru in rank?

I believe Max only outranks Hikaru because Hikaru was gone for a long time after the fold accident that stranded Misa and Hikaru on Earth. Thus Max was made leader of Skull Squadron in his place. It is likely that Hikaru still outranked him beforehand, but in itself because Roy died just before Hikaru and Misa disappeared Hikaru didn't become leader of skull until Max disappeared into the Meltran ship. In a way a lot of things happened backwards.

[Beltane70]

In DYRL, I believe that Hikaru and Max started out as the same rank.

[Zinjo]

In DYRL, I believe that Hikaru and Max started out as the same rank.

I don't believe so.

Hikaru was made flight leader and given command over Max and Kakizaki.

Whether that included a rank increase I can't honestly remember...

[Beltane70]

In DYRL, I could have sworn that Hikaru, Kakizaki, and Max were all in Roy's flight, at least in the opening battle. Hell, the dialog in the beginning suggests that the battle is the first one for the three.

[akt_m]

Yeah at the first battle they seem to be...

Edited December 9, 2008 by akt_m

[dreamweaver13]

I have a question. Been looking throught the thread and I cant find it ... dont know if it has never been ask or if I missed it when looking.

In the Macross TV series Hikaru out ranks Max but in DYRL max out ranks Hikaru. I know that DYRL was a movie for the people in the TV series and that is confirmed in Macross 7 when they mention Mimmay and a movie about 35yrs in the past. Was it ever explained why they desided for Max pass Hikaru in rank?

correct observation, but of course there's really no clear cut reason why max was the flight leader in DYRL (on earth).

I believe Max only outranks Hikaru because Hikaru was gone for a long time after the fold accident that stranded Misa and Hikaru on Earth. Thus Max was made leader of Skull Squadron in his place. It is likely that Hikaru still outranked him beforehand, but in itself because Roy died just before Hikaru and Misa disappeared Hikaru didn't become leader of skull until Max disappeared into the Meltran ship. In a way a lot of things happened backwards.

it's possible. not necessarily because max took hikaru's place, but more probably because Max now has more air combat time than hikaru. I am presuming that max and hikaru were equal ranks at the start of DYRL. but since hikaru was gone for a long time, max contined to battle and go up the leadership chart. Who knows what battle achievements max had during hikaru's absence? only makes sense that he's assigned flight leader,r ather than Hikaru.

or maybe... hikaru was demoted because of what he did. if you really think about it, because of hikaru's insubordination and misuse of military equipment, he endangered a bridge officer, got a squadron leader killed, and allowed the enemy to kidnap the fleet's most prized civilian asset. it's a wonder hikaru wasn't thrown in front of a firing squad.

[Morpheus]

if you really think about it, because of hikaru's insubordination and misuse of military equipment, he endangered a bridge officer, got a squadron leader killed, and allowed the enemy to kidnap the fleet's most prized civilian asset. it's a wonder hikaru wasn't thrown in front of a firing squad.

Isamu inspiration?

[Einherjar]

it's possible. not necessarily because max took hikaru's place, but more probably because Max now has more air combat time than hikaru. I am presuming that max and hikaru were equal ranks at the start of DYRL. but since hikaru was gone for a long time, max contined to battle and go up the leadership chart. Who knows what battle achievements max had during hikaru's absence? only makes sense that he's assigned flight leader,r ather than Hikaru.

or maybe... hikaru was demoted because of what he did. if you really think about it, because of hikaru's insubordination and misuse of military equipment, he endangered a bridge officer, got a squadron leader killed, and allowed the enemy to kidnap the fleet's most prized civilian asset. it's a wonder hikaru wasn't thrown in front of a firing squad.

Don't forget Kakizaki.

If it was just Roy, Hikaru, Max and Kakizaki in the squadron, Max's promotion was probably a no brainer.

[Sdf Prime]

Here is something I have been wondering about. Which version of events for the original story does Shoji Kawamori prefer SDF Macross or Macross DYRL? I don't know if he has ever said before or not but I was wondering what the general opinion was. I was thinking that since the movie was made after the tv series he might have put all of his favorite parts from the tv series into the film and make any changes to the story he wanted since he would have all new animation for the film.