Newbie Questions on Macross

[Killer Robot]

Are some of the Zentradi still cloned?

If you mean uncultured Zentradi, what Gubaba said. If you mean human-allied Zentradi, not any more. Presumably it would have been ended when the mass cloning project for humans and other Earth life was ended in 2030 due to the drawbacks (increasing genetic diseases) coming to outweigh the benefits (the by then mostly accomplished rapid restoration of Earth and human culture's viability).

[Getsuga Tenshou]

4. What about them?

I think what RogueTrooper wants to ask is what are the "Uncultured" Zentradi fleets doing. Are they still at war with the Supervision army? Do they know about the Macross and that Bodolza's fleet was destroyed by humans? Hehehe I added some of my questions to his :-)

[edwin3060]

Cross-posted from the Mecha/Technology thread!

Now, on to something new! I just got my GNU-DOUs.. all three (-11/-19/-21) and I must say that they are gorgeous! To prevent this from becoming a toy thread though, I noticed something interesting about the mecha data they have on the back. The YF-19 is stated to have a thrust of 56,500 kg x2, while the YF-21 is stated to have a thrust of 41,200 kg (atmosphere)/ 65,200 kg (space). Checking both the Macross Compendium and the Macross Mecha Manual, I see that the 56,500 kg stat was replaced--- so I was wondering when were the engines of the YF-19 upgraded/changed? Is there any canon book that stated the change? Is Yamato correct, or did it make a small, though noticeable mistake?

[Mr March]

The YF-19 was originally supposed to be fitted with 56,500kg engines, but for whatever reason was fitted with less powerful 42,700kg engines. When the YF-19 was approved for mass production, the first mass produced model, the VF-19A Excalibur, was able to be fitted with the original 56,500kg engines. The VF-19 Custom and the VF-19P from Macross 7 were also fitted with the mass production 56,500kg engines. As the VF-19 Excalibur line continued mass production, numerous variants were built that continued to improve the engines, like the 72,500kg engines of the VF-19F Excalibur and the 78,950kg engines of the VF-19S Excalibur.

I believe this trivia came from one of the VF-X games, which as far as I've been told, is considered canon (or at the very least official trivia) according to the Macross Compendium. Regardless, the Macross 7 trivia confirms the 56,500kg engines for the VF-19 Custom and VF-19P Excalibur, so I think it's safe to embrace these figures.

[edwin3060]

Hmm I'm confused then-- Both your site and Macross Compendium list the 42,700kg/67500kg engines as well as stating the 56,500kg engines, also stating that the 56,500 kg was instantaneous thrust in space-- so unless the 56,500kg engines have no atmospheric limitations (i.e. 56,500kg in atmosphere as well, which would give the VF-19A, a mostly UNAF fighter an advantage), why would they want to switch over? Or have I answered my own question?

[azrael]

Hmm I'm confused then-- Both your site and Macross Compendium list the 42,700kg/67500kg engines as well as stating the 56,500kg engines, also stating that the 56,500 kg was instantaneous thrust in space-- so unless the 56,500kg engines have no atmospheric limitations (i.e. 56,500kg in atmosphere as well, which would give the VF-19A, a mostly UNAF fighter an advantage), why would they want to switch over? Or have I answered my own question?

It was a test of the engine. As a prototype, we can allow the YF-19 to test things which won't make it to production craft. They were probably changed during the course of the competition. Why? Why not. It's a test.

[RogueTrooper]

I think what RogueTrooper wants to ask is what are the "Uncultured" Zentradi fleets doing. Are they still at war with the Supervision army? Do they know about the Macross and that Bodolza's fleet was destroyed by humans? Hehehe I added some of my questions to his :-)

That what i was asking, do UN spacy go out of there way to find the other Zentradi?

If theres no clue as to how old the Zentradi live till do we know the age of any of them?

And a few more questions

Is macross7 Trash worth a read and what do i read to find out about the cloning after SW1

[Zinjo]

That what i was asking, do UN spacy go out of there way to find the other Zentradi?

Considering how vast the Galaxy is, it isn't likely the Zentreadi are sought out (they tend to find us.. ).

Humanity has concentrated most of its efforts on colonization to avoid genocide of the species...

[Gubaba]

That what i was asking, do UN spacy go out of there way to find the other Zentradi?

If theres no clue as to how old the Zentradi live till do we know the age of any of them?

Well, in 2009, Millia was 15, Britai was 34, and Kamjin was 23, if that's any help.

And a few more questions

Is macross7 Trash worth a read and what do i read to find out about the cloning after SW1

Trash is interesting, but it's not terribly Macross-y. None of the regular Mac7 caracters appear except in cameo appearances (which may be a good or bad thing, depending on your attitude towards them), although Max is arguably involved at least as much in Trash as he was in the series.

As for the cloning, our best bet is to wait a while...Macross Chronicle will probably cover it eventually.

[JB0]

Honestly, I suspect the natural life expectancy of a zentradi is probably being determined by humanity.

I don't think most of them were expected to live long in their normal lifestyle.

Exsedol and Bodolza would be my bets for elderly zentradi, but... they don't seem to have published ages.

I'd expect, but this is mostly just wild-ass guessing, that the rank-and-file battle officers have the shortest life expectancies, and that durability and life expectancy goes up as you rise through the castes and experience becomes a more valuable element, with archivists and fleet commanders having the longest lifespans.

Britai also seems to have been worth saving instead of recloning.

I doubt anyone would've expended that effort on Kamjin or the 3 spies. Especially not on Kamjin, as he seems to be, well, defective.

This, of course, assumes the plate in the head is a result of injury, and not a cybernetic tactical data device or some such. Which seems fair for SDF-style characters, given Bodolza doesn't have one and he would have just as much, if not more, need for such a device.

Either way, according to the show Britai's built tougher than the rank and file troops, which points towards the value of experience in his position... or just that they don't want commanders dropping dead from injuries in mid-battle.

DYRL-style, we get a very different picture.

The zentradi have numbers attached to their names that, as I understand it, show what iteration of the clone they are.

And the fleet commanders are actually PART of their flagships, and Bad Things happen when they die, indicating that they're intended to last for a LOOOOONG time. And, of course, Bodol in DYRL is established as REALLY old.

As to which style is right...

Macross 7 has a DYRL-style Exsedol. And many SDF-style zentradi, including a Britai actor with an SDF-style faceplate.

Frontier has generally DYRL-style zentradi.

In conclusion... ???

Edited November 26, 2008 by JB0

[RogueTrooper]

Excellant answers. For some reason the Zendtradi really interest me.

Really surprised that Millia is only 15, cloned an adult i guess. I was expecting Bretai to be a least in human terms in his late 40s and Exedor to be well old, like centurys i he is the knowleadge holder and epxected him to have increased his knowleage over sometimes.

Started to read M7 trash, alright but yeah not all that macross-ish, has a love triangle but so far no valks but a little about Minmay being the legend.

[Einherjar]

Well...there was the dinosaur thingy on Planet Lux in Macross 7 that looked a lot like Jabby from Orguss...other than that, I certainly haven't noticed any.

I kind of doubt there would be any Southern Cross references, since A) it wasn't very popular, and B) none of the Macross staff worked on it (that I know of, that is).

That sucks, especially for Southern Cross these days.

[Gubaba]

That sucks, especially for Southern Cross these days.

At least Southern Cross has a few fans (thanks mostly to Robotech). Imagine the sad, empty life of a hardcore Galvion fanatic...there's nothing there for them.

Oh, and you're forgetting the little-known fourth part of the Super Dimension Trilogy: Super Dimension Legend Rall. Although that one's not terribly big these days, either. For completely different reasons.

[Einherjar]

At least Southern Cross has a few fans (thanks mostly to Robotech). Imagine the sad, empty life of a hardcore Galvion fanatic...there's nothing there for them.

That's probably the sad truth. Perhaps it would have been better for it to fade into obscurity and then released in its entirety only recently like Orguss, except without the ADV/ImaginAsian DVD problems.

Oh, and you're forgetting the little-known fourth part of the Super Dimension Trilogy: Super Dimension Legend Rall. Although that one's not terribly big these days, either. For completely different reasons.

My God.

[taksraven]

If you mean uncultured Zentradi, what Gubaba said. If you mean human-allied Zentradi, not any more. Presumably it would have been ended when the mass cloning project for humans and other Earth life was ended in 2030 due to the drawbacks (increasing genetic diseases) coming to outweigh the benefits (the by then mostly accomplished rapid restoration of Earth and human culture's viability).

When did we find out that they ended mass cloning for humans? (I presume in some Macross that I have not seen). How would humanity countinue to expand at such a great rate without cloning?

Taksraven

[Morpheus]

When did we find out that they ended mass cloning for humans? (I presume in some Macross that I have not seen). How would humanity countinue to expand at such a great rate without cloning?

Taksraven

That's kinda weird, if Earth did use mass cloning for several years, I'm expecting to see several people with the same faces, but the anime never depicts that one .

After re-thinking, I think that would be a bad idea, imagine a valk squad named "Flying Steak" and its member consist of Kakizaki clones........

[Valkyrie addict]

uhh...don't know if this got ask...did it ever got explained what were the two 'towers' in the back of the Macross quarter that are similar in appearance to the Macross main cannon?

[Killer Robot]

When did we find out that they ended mass cloning for humans? (I presume in some Macross that I have not seen). How would humanity countinue to expand at such a great rate without cloning?

Taksraven

I'm not sure what source it was originally published in, I was using Macross Compendium's timeline for reference, which I understand to be generally accurate. Anyone know the matter better than me?

As for how humanity continued to expand, once the combined Human/Zentradi population reached a high enough level, it would be possible to sustain rapid colonization simply by maintaining high reproductive rates on the worlds sending out colonies. If, for example, the combined population of Earth and Eden was 500 million by 2030 and had an annual growth rate of at least 2%(about what a lot of expanding populations in the modern era have had), a fleet Frontier's size could be launched once a year, on an ultimately sustainable basis. So far as I know though, no data exists on the actual numbers involved and further speculation doesn't belong here: I just mean that a significantly rebounded population wouldn't need cloning to crank out the fleets.

[dreamweaver13]

That's kinda weird, if Earth did use mass cloning for several years, I'm expecting to see several people with the same faces, but the anime never depicts that one .

Are you forgetting Leon and his salesman clone? or Kamjin, Britai and Exedole's clones on galia IV? and i still think president Glass is a clone of the mayor in that town where kamjin stole the macronization chamber. hehe.

on the other hand, given the high premium that Minmay's, Hikaru's, Global's and Misa's DNA should have post-war, i wonder how many of their clones are walking around macross city...

[edwin3060]

That's kinda weird, if Earth did use mass cloning for several years, I'm expecting to see several people with the same faces, but the anime never depicts that one .

After re-thinking, I think that would be a bad idea, imagine a valk squad named "Flying Steak" and its member consist of Kakizaki clones........

O_O I think you just discovered the pilots of all the CF planes!

[sketchley]

When did we find out that they ended mass cloning for humans? (I presume in some Macross that I have not seen). How would humanity countinue to expand at such a great rate without cloning?

Taksraven

Haven't read the compendium much, have you? Try: http://macross.anime.net/story/chronology/2013/index.html , Dec. 2030.

And, lessee, for example, if a base population of 1 billion reproduces at 1% per year, that's 1 million people. In Macross, we even have cursury evidence that multiple births are promoted - Max and Miria having 7.

EDIT: oops, it appears that Killer Robot already answered that. So I have this to add: with the OTEC medical care available, coupled with the culture of multiple births, IMHO the birthrate would be higher than 2%.

Edited December 2, 2008 by sketchley

[GianS]

I never saw the original Macross Saga (only Robotech). Is there a particular version that is recommended? Remastered, dubbed ect.

I am looking to purchase it.

[Gubaba]

I never saw the original Macross Saga (only Robotech). Is there a particular version that is recommended? Remastered, dubbed ect.

I am looking to purchase it.

There are only two versions of SDF Macross out there, the Animeigo and the AD Vision versions. If you want a dub, go for the ADV version...the dub cast isn't, on the whole, very good, but the Animeigo version is sub only, so ADV is your only choice.

Neither of the versions feature the Japanese 2007 remaster, but Animeigo spent TONS of money restoring the footage, so it looks pretty spectacular. ADV uses the same footage, so either way, it'll LOOK great.

[Morpheus]

Newbie question:

- Why did the UNS abandon Mars base?

- Did the Zentraedi make the gravity trap or the found it under Mars base?

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

n00b question. When did zentran and meltran's ears get all pionty, like a elf? Or have they always been like that and I never noticed?

[sketchley]

Newbie question:

- Why did the UNS abandon Mars base?

- Did the Zentraedi make the gravity trap or the found it under Mars base?

From the compendium: http://macross.anime.net/story/chronology/1999/index.html

2003

November

An assignment of U.N. Spacy personnel arrives at Mars Base.

2005

September

The third Oberth class space destroyer Tsiolkovsky is hijacked by the Anti-U.N. Military Organization.

September 8

1800: The return fleet from Mars is destroyed with 3055 U.N. forces personnel onboard by this [aforementioned] destroyer's attack.

September 10

Official announcement of the Mars return fleet's destruction by the U.N. Military Headquarters.

September

The U.N. Forces destroy the Anti-U.N. Military Organization's captured space destroyer Tsiolkovsky via an attack with reaction weaponry by Captain Bruno J. Global's space destroyerGoddard. (First use of reaction weaponry in actual combat.)

There's nothing that states why, though as it was in the midst of the UN wars and text in the 2004 or 2005 section mentions a collapse in the world economy, it's most likely the result of both - personnel needed to fight in the war and no money to maintain the base. Not to mention that with destroyers and other space going ships becoming available, the need for an advance warning stationary facility on Mars was greatly reduced.

From what I remember of the dialogue, it's implied that the Zentraedi placed those mines.

[Mr March]

n00b question. When did zentran and meltran's ears get all pionty, like a elf? Or have they always been like that and I never noticed?

The Zentradi ears became somewhat pointed in the movie DYRL? (1984). Since then, the pointed ear Zentradi have been adopted for the Macross sequels, most notably Guld in Macross Plus and various characters, Zentradi or otherwise, in Macross 7 and it's sequels.

Some have argued the Zentradi's ears became more prominent in Macross Frontier. Not sure if that's true, but we're talking perception here which changes from person to person. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that many fans who know Macross haven't seen Macross DYRL or Macross 7 because it's not been licensed. So they remember Macross from their early years and then got back into it via Macross Frontier on the internet. These fans likely missed most of the Macross sequels (or may have seen them, but aren't nearly as familiar with them as the original) so to them, the new "ears" in Macross Frontier looks like a major design leap from SDF Macross.

[Letigre]

The Zentradi ears became somewhat pointed in the movie DYRL? (1984). Since then, the pointed ear Zentradi have been adopted for the Macross sequels, most notably Guld in Macross Plus and various characters, Zentradi or otherwise, in Macross 7 and it's sequels.

IS it a recessive trait? I've seen it appear on half Zentradi characters (like Guld, of course,) but it seems like characters further removed from pure Zentradi don't always have pointed ears.

[David Hingtgen]

And in ep 3 (I think) there's a notable scene in the elevator where Michael has clearly human ears. (was this fixed?)

[Oihan]

How are The Super Dimension Fortress Macross, The Super Dimension Century Orguss, and The Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross all apart of the same trilogy if they aren't even related to each other story wise? I understand that Bigwest produced them all...but why call it a trilogy if they aren't even related to each other? Are they are all trying to tell of how love and song conquers all...just told differently in each story?

[VF5SS]

It's more of a marketing thing with the sponsors like IMAI and Takatoku toys.

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

The Zentradi ears became somewhat pointed in the movie DYRL? (1984). Since then, the pointed ear Zentradi have been adopted for the Macross sequels, most notably Guld in Macross Plus and various characters, Zentradi or otherwise, in Macross 7 and it's sequels.

Some have argued the Zentradi's ears became more prominent in Macross Frontier. Not sure if that's true, but we're talking perception here which changes from person to person. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that many fans who know Macross haven't seen Macross DYRL or Macross 7 because it's not been licensed. So they remember Macross from their early years and then got back into it via Macross Frontier on the internet. These fans likely missed most of the Macross sequels (or may have seen them, but aren't nearly as familiar with them as the original) so to them, the new "ears" in Macross Frontier looks like a major design leap from SDF Macross.

You know. I'v seen 7 and plus. To me Guld's earlobes looked a little longer rather then pionty on top, and Mylene's ears were slightly longer on top, but to me IIRC, never looked as pointy as Klans or Michels. Mylenes werent even in Spock porportions.

[Mr March]

They look really pointy to me

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

They look really pointy to me

You got me there Mr March. But when did they go from Spock pionty to Record of the Lodoss war pionty?

[sketchley]

when they changed the character designer?