Macross Frontier Girls Part 2

[d3v]

If we base things on previous Macross shows, alot depends on who's singing will end up saving the day.

One of the major points of the original series (made more clear in DYRL) was Minmay eventually letting go of wanting to be with Hikaru (and her petty childish impulses after she found out about him and Misa) for the greater good.

[Keith]

I don't know, I see Ranka going more the Minmay route. If you look at Sheryl, she's got more of the over-cocky Misa vibe to her, with a creamy insecure center.

[Omegablue]

Sheryl everyday. A woman that's beautiful, clever, doesn't whine like a child, doesn't measure her man's wallet, and knows what she wants is rare!

[ackem]

To add more fuel to the fire, Sheryl's latest blog entry is her wondering about how emotions seem to collect at the fingertips, hair, and lips. She writes "Quite troublesome places, don't you think? But, maybe that's why we want them touched. Want them to be touched. Do you understand this feeling?" I guess this confirms the speculations that some people have had about her reaction to the kiss.

[Zinjo]

I am undecided personally.

I am liking how they've shuffled the characters up.

Sheryl the pop idol, very outgoing and bold like Minmay, yet all the while emotionally guarded like Misa and Myung.The principle difference here is that Sheryl is genuinely interested in Alto, while Minmay's feeling for Hikaru were largely non-romantic until she started getting lonely near the end of the series. Sheryl is guarded for good reason, however you can tell she wants to open up to Alto, but is terrified at the prospect of his rejection.

Ranka, the talented debuting pop idol like Minmay, yet shy and introverted like Misa. Ranka is the most sympathetic of the two, wearing her heart on her sleeve most of the time and being fairly physically awkward for her age. As Misa was socially awkward, Ranka is physically awkward and clumbsy. She is learning to be fiercly determined like Sheryl, yet her shyness is what's keeping her from asserting herself with Alto. In many ways she is like Mao, except Moa wasn't a viable rival to her sister, due to her age, but Ranka can be a romantic rival to Sheryl.

Ultimately as a fan who now has a vested interest in the characters, I wish they all get what they want. When they ultimately figure out what that is...

[Final Vegeta]

You must a real Ranka fan to ignore the fact Ranka knows nothing about Alto and don't care to know until someone tells her that she knows nothing about her crush.

It's not that she didn't care to know, it's just that Ranka is a shy girl.

FV

[Ginrai]

Sheryl still rules. I like her BECAUSE she is a bitch.

[dreamweaver13]

To add more fuel to the fire, Sheryl's latest blog entry is her wondering about how emotions seem to collect at the fingertips, hair, and lips. She writes "Quite troublesome places, don't you think? But, maybe that's why we want them touched. Want them to be touched. Do you understand this feeling?" I guess this confirms the speculations that some people have had about her reaction to the kiss.

wow, that's a nice blog post. quite insightful. see, how can you not like sheryl, when she even has thoughts like this?

ackem, thanks for the translation. even though i can't read japanese, can you post the url of her blog?

on a side note, if anyone able to read the blog has time to translate, how about a new thread dedicated to sheryl's blog posts? pretty please?

[d3v]

wow, that's a nice blog post. quite insightful. see, how can you not like sheryl, when she even has thoughts like this?

ackem, thanks for the translation. even though i can't read japanese, can you post the url of her blog?

on a side note, if anyone able to read the blog has time to translate, how about a new thread dedicated to sheryl's blog posts? pretty please?

Sheryl's blog:

http://ameblo.jp/sherylnome

Ranka's blog:

http://ameblo.jp/rankalee

[s-girl]

I think that after so much moe the last few years in anime that finding a complex female in the mix (without massive uber angst or cross-dressing) is indeed very refreshing. Sheryl really has a lot of womanly traits, but then suddenly throws something cute or vulnerable out there that sort of throws us off.

So I voted for Sheryl. And it has nothing to do with her looks, but probably my age. I'm an older anime fan. I like seeing Alto with someone who is (at the moment) his equal or even better than him . I like watching the way they interact and push each other differently.

Edited June 13, 2008 by s-girl

[d3v]

I think that after so much moe the last few years in anime that finding a complex female in the mix (without massive uber angst or cross-dressing) is indeed very refreshing. Sheryl really has a lot of womanly traits, but then suddenly throws something cute or vulnerable out there that sort of throws us off.

So I voted for Sheryl. And it has nothing to do with her looks, but probably my age. I'm an older anime fan. I like seeing Alto with someone who is (at the moment) his equal or even better than him . I like watching the way they interact and push each other differently.

Yes, as someone who misses anime before the advent of modern moe trends, I agree with you.

Sheryl..

She's a bitch, she's a lover

She's a child, she's a mother

She's a sinner, she's a saint

She does not feel ashamed.

She's your health, she's your dream

She's nothing in between

You know you wouldn't want her any other way.

[Gubaba]

Yes, as someone who misses anime before the advent of modern moe trends, I agree with you.

Sheryl..

She's a bitch, she's a lover

She's a child, she's a mother

She's a sinner, she's a saint

She does not feel ashamed.

She's your health, she's your dream

She's nothing in between

You know you wouldn't want her any other way.

Y'know...I hated that song when it came out, and I'd almost gotten to the point where I forgot it ever existed...

Modern moe trends aren't nearly as annoying as most late '90s rock...

[ackem]

Yes, as someone who misses anime before the advent of modern moe trends, I agree with you.

Sheryl..

She's a bitch, she's a lover

She's a child, she's a mother

She's a sinner, she's a saint

She does not feel ashamed.

She's your health, she's your dream

She's nothing in between

You know you wouldn't want her any other way.

It's so nice to see that not everyone is seduced by the moe infestation in recent anime and actually prefers more mature women. Sheryl is just so awesome that the word is inadequate to describe her.

wow, that's a nice blog post. quite insightful. see, how can you not like sheryl, when she even has thoughts like this?

ackem, thanks for the translation. even though i can't read japanese, can you post the url of her blog?

on a side note, if anyone able to read the blog has time to translate, how about a new thread dedicated to sheryl's blog posts? pretty please?

I'm actually beginning to do summaries of Sheryl's blog over at the Animesuki Macross forum and Lone Wolf is doing the Ranka one. It's under the Romance in Macross thread, although I'm not sure how long it will stay in there. If anyone feels like it they can just copy and paste my summaries into a thread here since I'm too lazy to do it myself

Edited June 13, 2008 by ackem

[Mercurial Morpheus]

I throw my support under Klan Klan

I find that post and avatar combo quite hilarious.

As for me, I'm a tad undecided. Going on first impressions, I'm more a Ranka fan, as I still trying to figure Sheryl out. Having had over four months of "Sheryl's a real work-centric bitch" sure as hell made her characterization a bit confusing so I'm going to have to rewatch the start of the series. Right now, she seems to go from, "I want nothing to do with you" to "Hey, I lost my earring, so I'm going to obsess over you and flirt while we find it and use you as my personal tour guide/chance to take a break from my workaholicness". I keep feeling like I missed an episode, or someone on staff rewrote her character a bit between two episodes into a bit of an uptight at times scatterbrain. She sort of reminds me of a costume designer I've worked with. Pretty nice person once you talked to her, but cold pro when it came to work. You mess with her stuff wrong, she'll let you have it, but it was nothing personal. At least the whole Galaxy thing sort of explained her quirkiness.

All the main girls have their plus and minuses. Ranka's cute and persevering, but highly naive with a troubled past. I usually don't like characters like her, but she's just sort of likable. Kind of like me and Mikuru Asahina. Her problem right now is her lack of forwardness, which Sheryl has in Spades.

As for Sheryl, I'd like her more if not for the oddity detailed above. Maybe I sat between episodes a day or two more than I should of, but I just couldn't place her relationship with Alto. I kept asking early on, "Why are they hanging together again?" I can see why they added the whole concert incident. Otherwise, going from Deculture Edition, they have no connection whatsoever. As such, it affects my view of her and a somewhat inconsistent character. it's odd, as I usually love characters like her (confidant and strong, yet with a cuteness that betrays a vulnerabilty, in otherwords a bit of a Tsundere and I absolutely love Tsundere).

I like that she's supporting Ranka. They've definitely toned down her surlyness. Though it's sort of obvious that she knows Ranka's crush on Alto, and the episode ten bit did seem like a bit of a stab at her. Maybe that's her intention as well. Though episode ten itself was kind of random (especially the whole Alto coming out of nowhere part, and what actually became of the original Mao actress-hurt/dead-who cares, right?) Still, even I'm shocked at her poor performance. She's a lot easier to put your finger on as shes more consistent. Her "Wha 'bout My Star" is better anyway.

Klan's pretty cool, for the little they've used of her, and I sort of like Cathy. She's so going to hook back up with Ozma or something at one point. Both need a lot of fleshing out though. Nanase wins points for the tits, glasses, hair, cheerful/fruitiness, and at times blatant homosexuality (hurray for Yuri subtext!!!). Even Grace could prove interesting in the future.

As for winner, my money's on Ranka. Though Keith's Misa analogy is an intriguing thought (though Sheryl's no Misa), this series has verged on SDF Macross remake vibes why to much. It seems fairly obvious that Sheryl was more the Minmay of the two (position, not personality-wise). Though the episode 11 teaser suggests otherwise now. Still, they like using MacrossTV plot elements and then twisting them right before you can say, "rip off!. Though Sheryl's position at the moment seems to be as a catalyst for Ranka to grow more of a spine given the whole kiss bull.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up with neither. Both are sort of Minmay-ish now.

So I'm sort of undecided, though I do like them all, and need to put my finger on Sheryl. She's definitely the most developed at the moment, though that was more out of necessity thanks to her establishment (the soft spots in one really shouldn't have been toned down like they were).

As such, no Frontier girl avy for me. Millia's safe for now (though avy with me doesn't necessarily depict favorite- Misa's my main M love.)

For those that care though, if I did, it'd probably be Sheryl's underwear grab. Mostly out of the pure "WTF" moment that it was.

As usual, I've been horribly sniped (started this before S-girl's post). oh, and pardon any oddities in my writing. I'm suffering a bad cold at the moment, so my mind's not all clear.

Y'know...I hated that song when it came out, and I'd almost gotten to the point where I forgot it ever existed...

Modern moe trends aren't nearly as annoying as most late '90s rock...

Agreed. Gah...:::::

As for the mature/moe debate, neither character has really developed that much to use them. Ranka's cute, so I can get the "moe" bit, but she's definitely got more going for her than that. I sure as hell wouldn't call Miss Random "mature" or even all that complex at the moment. She's more a tease if anything with her own dark-ish past for flavor .

Edited June 13, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[d3v]

Y'know...I hated that song when it came out, and I'd almost gotten to the point where I forgot it ever existed...

Modern moe trends aren't nearly as annoying as most late '90s rock...

That song came to mind when looking into Sheryl's characterization (and if anything, I'm not that into late 90's rock either, my personal taste is 80's rock/metal with lots of solos and falsettos ). It's just like the Meredith Brooks song, Sheryl is an attempt at portraying a complex modern woman - something I find lacking in modern moe culture.

[mike_s_6]

A lot of people call women who know what they want and know how to demand it "bitches". Imagine if it were a male who demanded of Alto, "who are you talking over the phone? Get here this instant!", people wouldn't call him names. But it was a girl, Sheryl, who asked Alto to do so, and for some reason, some people find that "bitchy". Hello world. Sexist much?

Edited June 13, 2008 by mike_s_6

[Ltee]

Hmm...I agree with Sheryl too. Yes, Ranka has an innocence about her, but as of now she looks like a kid. I really don't see them being a match in the physical sense. As for Sheryl & Alto haven't you guys ever seen couples who hated each other first but grew to love each other? Hate & Love stem from the same emotion. I'm thinking Sheryl & Alto will hook up. I think they kinda sent that message with Mao being played by Ranka (Mao doesn't get Shin in M0).

[ackem]

A lot of people call women who know what they want and know how to demand it "bitches". Imagine if it were a male who demanded of Alto, "who are you talking over the phone? Get here this instant!", people wouldn't call him names. But it was a girl, Sheryl, who asked Alto to do so, and for some reason, some people find that "bitchy". Hello world. Sexist much?

It's probably the residual, and not so residual, effects of a patriarchal world. It's hard to overcome thousands of years of male dominated rule in a few short decades, although the "bitch" labels being thrown around in this thread even by some Sheryl fans grate on me too.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

I think it also has to do with her established character. It's not wrong to call someone bitchy when they're being such.

Sexism has little to do with it. He'd be called a "dick".

Oh, and I agree on Ranka being a child for the moment. I'm sure that's part of her growth plan. She's not Alto material at the moment, and neither is Sheryl (outside of him masochism)

Edited June 13, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[mike_s_6]

It's probably the residual, and not so residual, effects of a patriarchal world. It's hard to overcome thousands of years of male dominated rule in a few short decades, although the "bitch" labels being thrown around in this thread even by some Sheryl fans grate on me too.

Actually it doesn't grate on me anymore... because I try to replace "bitch" with "in control", so I don't mind Sheryl fans using it also. What I mind is how some people use it as a derogatory comment (directed to any woman who's not doing anything wrong/immoral).

Edited June 13, 2008 by mike_s_6

[mike_s_6]

I think it also has to do with her established character. It's not wrong to call someone bitchy when they're being such.

Sexism has little to do with it. He'd be called a "dick".

Oh, and I agree on Ranka being a child for the moment. I'm sure that's part of her growth plan. She's not Alto material at the moment, and neither is Sheryl (outside of him masochism)

When guys are in control, they don't get called dicks, it's only when they make irrational judgments/actions and pretend that they're right. Really, replace the "Alto get here (on the set of the shoot) this instant!" voice with a male voice and let's see how different that sounds. If in the first place, you don't find Sheryl bitchy when she commands Alto to be professional, then that's good.

By the way, which actions of Sheryl do you guys find "bitchy"? I never really saw her character as that.

[d3v]

I don't think we should generalize Sheryl and Alto as just plain master/slave. From what I see, they do get along quite well beyond Sheryl teasing Alto every now and then (certainly not as antagonistic as when Mikhail teases the princess).

If anything, she reminds me of Jyun Ji-hyun's character from the original Korean version of My Sassy Girl (엽기적인 그녀), both certainly are domineering, somewhat bitchy yet playful women (although Sheryl hasn't made Alto chase after her while he was wearing her heels... yet).

Edited June 13, 2008 by d3v

[Mercurial Morpheus]

When guys are in control, they don't get called dicks, it's only when they make irrational judgments/actions and pretend that they're right. Really, replace the "Alto get here (on the set of the shoot) this instant!" voice with a male voice and let's see how different that sounds.

Like hell they don't. It just depends on the tone. In that situation, I'd look as down on a guy as much as I would a girl (a bit of, "geez, what a slavedriver, let the man take a quick call.' ). Though to be honest, I didn't think much of the scene, so the point is moot. I don't see why this has to be turned into an issue of sex. My thoughts on Sheryl would be the same no matter her chromosomes.

I'd call it more "forceful" or "tactless" than bitchy, as you like calling it "in control".

Edited June 13, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[mike_s_6]

Like hell they don't. It just depends on the tone. In that situation, I'd look as down on a guy as much as I would a girl (a bit of, "geez, what a slavedriver, let the man take a quick call.' ). Though to be honest, I didn't think much of the scene, so the point is moot. I don't see why this has to be turned into an issue of sex. My thoughts on Sheryl would be the same no matter her chromosomes.

Actually, people have been talking about it somehow as an issue of sex under the guise of the words "Sheryl is the modern woman", but didn't really point how that means that she has some "traditionally" male qualities, the possession of which by women is somehow still looked down by some (who want their girls to be innocent, docile and shy).

[Mercurial Morpheus]

I suppose. Though I see Sheryl simply as a character in need of much more development. Same as the rest of the cast. Go fig.

[mike_s_6]

I suppose. Though I see Sheryl simply as a character in need of much more development. Same as the rest of the cast. Go fig.

Well yes, me too, I'm looking forward to how both girls will turn out to be by the end of the series

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Indeed. though i still need to reconcile the two Sheryls. A rewatching I must go.

I'm thinking Sheryl & Alto will hook up. I think they kinda sent that message with Mao being played by Ranka (Mao doesn't get Shin in M0).

I think you're taking that a bit too much at face value. Actually, I think that suggests quite the opposite. Especially since Ranka realised the position she's in. Sheryl and Alto might hook up, but it probably won't be final. Alto doesn't seem to be looking at a romantic relationship eitherway. Both seem more friendly and protective (to Ranka) or obligatory and understanding (to Sheryl). Though the way Sheryl's leading, he might get some ideas (or be paralyzed by confusion).

post 666

On second thought, I still think neither is highly likely.

Edited June 13, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[herbert]

It's not that she didn't care to know, it's just that Ranka is a shy girl.

FV

How conveniently you forget what really happens in ep 10. Her reactions are not anything like "I am so regretful I didn't work up my courage to ask," but more like "damn it, I didn't think of asking but others already know."

Ranka's shyness is really a great weapon to destroy any critics against her wrongdoings.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

"Wrongdoings"? What show are you watching?

Ah fandom. I had no clear this sort of debate was raging. On 4chan maybe, but here?

Edited June 13, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[herbert]

"Wrongdoings"? What show are you watching?

Ah fandom. I had no clear this sort of debate was raging. On 4chan maybe, but here?

I invite you to AnimeSuki, which is the only anime forum I actively posting. Never been on 4chan so I have zero idea about what you mean.

Let me have a look on dictionary, "wrongdoing" is

1. behavior or action that is wrong, evil, or blameworthy.

2. an act that is wrong, evil, or blameworthy; misdeed; sin.

Ranka must be saint to not have done any.

Kidding aside, I said this only because I have seen bitch this and bitch when Sheryl does something wrong or not wrong just some people are too lazy to think, but I am only taught by them about forgiving and tolerating when Ranka is in the question. Well, after all she is new, young, inexperienced and still growing so we are responsible to forgive her and say she is always a nice and cute girl, so we must not call her a bitch. Maybe I need wait a day there is the flying knife instead of a frying pan hitting up with Ozma's forehead to call it wrongdoing.

Maybe not. Ranka-chan justifies anything by her existence.

Edited June 13, 2008 by herbert

[Mercurial Morpheus]

I invite you to AnimeSuki, which is the only anime forum I actively posting. Never been on 4chan so I have zero idea about what you mean.

I've been a registered member there since early 2004. Even apparently started the linked thread on DYRL? So I've been on a lot longer than you have (assuming you use the same name there). Though you know it way better than I do, as I don't post there much. I've been trying to cut back on forums for some time, and ASuki never really meshed well with me. After the debates on Interlude, I'd sort of had my fill. The intelligent posters are a bit too hardcore, and the one's that aren't don't offer much. Heck, their Macross forum has more detailed discussions on this show than we do. A bit too structured for my tastes with polls and thread rules and all that jazz. I'm not sure I can really have the time for a place that has mods start topics for discussion. The only forums I know that's crazier is AOD (new post every 0.3 seconds !!!!), and maybe ANN (though they're most just uptight). It's good for some things, I suppose (the toy threads can be useful).

That, and I only post when I have something to say, so it's rare that I get a really high post count anywhere except some forums. hell, I barely average over 120 posts a year here! I was just too spread out, so I've cut down the number I post on. That, and I'm tired of arguing on the damn net.

great, now I'll probably be checking it a bit. Thanks... (first log-in in three months.)

The 4chan comment wasn't precisely aimed at you, but rather the odd bickering over "bitch this" and "childish that". It struck me as more of something I'd read on 4chan rather than the more intelligent banter I expect from here. Though it is better, if not as outright hilarious as 4chans (which you're quoted on, by the way [not by me] ). Your "wrongdoings" bit merely catalyzed it.

Let me have a look on dictionary, "wrongdoing" is

1. behavior or action that is wrong, evil, or blameworthy.

2. an act that is wrong, evil, or blameworthy; misdeed; sin.

Um, thanks. I think most people know the definition of that term. Still, its often used to describe things far more extreme then anything Ranka's done. The guy with a Moe haircut maybe, but heck, I wouldn't even use it for Sheryl.

Ranka must be saint to not have done any.

True, but she's also a two-dimensional character with not even half a series worth of development. She's kind of exempt from the whole "original sin" thing. ;;

Kidding aside, I said this only because I have seen bitch this and bitch when Sheryl does something wrong or not wrong just some people are too lazy to think, but I am only taught by them about forgiving and tolerating when Ranka is in the question. Well, after all she is new, young, inexperienced and still growing so we are responsible to forgive her and say she is always a nice and cute girl, so we must not call her a bitch. Maybe I need wait a day there is the flying knife instead of a frying pan hitting up with Ozma's forehead to call it wrongdoing.

So since you're pissed at people interpreting Sheryl differently than you, you make a claim that her shyness forgives her of having the usual brother/sister spat and describe it as wrongdoings? Um.. okay.As a big brother myself, I know that that's nothing. Sure fandom can be blind. So how is this any better? "They crap on my character and claim that theirs' is perfect, and that's bad, so I'll do the same but in my case, since Sheryl's been so persecuted, it's good." It doesn't work like that (despite what forums like Asuki and 4chan think).

It's nothing personal, and I've already stated that I haven't taken either side, but that's kind of messed up thinking. Maybe it seems as you've described, but fans seem to like to break things down into confident=bitchy, shy=cute. It's sort of a strawman arguement. Not quite, but close enough. Let me return the favor.

Wikipedia defines Strawman as:

"straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]"

This I've seen on just about every forum I've ever known. It's a horrendous way of tearing about weaker opponents by twisting their words or pinning words on them. Saying all Ranka fans think Sheryl's a bitch or vice versa is sort of in it's camp. The thing is, it's all in opinion, and both sides do it, so boo-hoo. It's not that big a deal. Do note that I'm not necessarily applying it to your post. ^_-

It's sort of ridiculous too given Sheryl and Rankas' current relationship (though Ranka does have a clue, so it might be her turn to start pouting soon).

That's ignoring of course that both girls appear to have troubled pasts, and have their own approaches. Sheryl's forward and blunt. Of course she's going to appear "bitchy' to some, but why do you care? She's also quite eccentric and assertive and playful. Ranka is more reserved and withdrawn, though she's not without a temper, if only towards her overprotective adoptive brother, whom she's also rather concerned about. Frying pans are often for comedic effect in anime, by the way. If you're dwelling on that, you're really straining. Heck, it could be argued that both girls are something of a reflection of one another.

Maybe not. Ranka-chan justifies anything by her existence.

Now you're just being silly.

Sorry if I sound harsh. I can't tell at this hour and mindstate.

Welcome to Macross World. It's much more laid back, if still a tad anal at times.

Edited June 13, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[Zinjo]

As for me, I'm a tad undecided. Going on first impressions, I'm more a Ranka fan, as I still trying to figure Sheryl out. Having had over four months of "Sheryl's a real work-centric bitch" sure as hell made her characterization a bit confusing so I'm going to have to rewatch the start of the series. Right now, she seems to go from, "I want nothing to do with you" to "Hey, I lost my earring, so I'm going to obsess over you and flirt while we find it and use you as my personal tour guide/chance to take a break from my workaholicness". I keep feeling like I missed an episode, or someone on staff rewrote her character a bit between two episodes into a bit of an uptight at times scatterbrain. She sort of reminds me of a costume designer I've worked with. Pretty nice person once you talked to her, but cold pro when it came to work. You mess with her stuff wrong, she'll let you have it, but it was nothing personal. At least the whole Galaxy thing sort of explained her quirkiness.

She had always been obsessing over the ear ring. It wasn't until it was lost in battle, that she gave up on seeing it again. Sheryl began to feel attracted to Alto when she realized he wasn't star struck like all the other males she'd met (considering he knew fame as an actor, it is little surprise). Particularly when he took her for a tour of Frontier. She opened up to him in ep7 regarding her past which was quite a step for her.

I like that she's supporting Ranka. They've definitely toned down her surlyness. Though it's sort of obvious that she knows Ranka's crush on Alto, and the episode ten bit did seem like a bit of a stab at her. Maybe that's her intention as well. Though episode ten itself was kind of random (especially the whole Alto coming out of nowhere part, and what actually became of the original Mao actress-hurt/dead-who cares, right?) Still, even I'm shocked at her poor performance. She's a lot easier to put your finger on as shes more consistent. Her "Wha 'bout My Star" is better anyway.

Well I saw Sheryl's whole kissing of Alto as a "marking her territory" thing. She saw Alto worrying over Ranka and sought to attract his attention with herself. The more popular Ranka gets Sheryl will either grow colder and more competitive or relax a bit and let Ranka take the spotlight for a change and possibly persue Alto more agressively. I can see her getting pretty ruthless when it comes to competing for the affections of a guy... One doesn't become a teenage pop-idol by chance...

[Dio]

Someone earlier said it best, I think (paraphrasing): "Sheryl has the fame, but wants the personal connections. Ranka has personal connections, but wants to pursue fame."

They're both approaching the issue from completely opposite angles, which works great for the love triangle thing. My only beef at this point is with Alto, who seems to just let his life happen to him and only ever really chooses to act a certian way when someone's life is in danger. Aside from his tendency to "do the right thing at the last second," what do we really know about him other than that he has issues with being confined (both physically in the Frontier bubble, and in life by his father)? The reason I inject Alto into the argument is because... well, it's ultimately up to him and his personality to decide which Frontier Girl is most appropriate to be romantically involved with. But, I suppose that's for another thread.

If I had to pick right now, I would probably say that by the end of the season, he will end up with neither of them, but remain in the awkward limbo between possibilities. He's the Mylene of Frontier. There will be strong arguments both for and against the relationship choices he can make, but ultimately nothing will be resolved - why? Well, because it's the classic "Ross and Rachel" scenario, if there's any watchers of Friends out there. We watch the show for the mecha porn, but we also keep coming back and debating through lengthy threads over which of the two directions the character drama will go in. As soon as that's decided, what do we have left - just pointless mecha porn which, while pretty to watch, doesn't have any driving force behind it aside from "blow up bigger bad guy next week," which isn't really Macross.

Hikaru made a choice in the original SDFM, but that show wasn't so much about the love triangle as it was about how he was maturing as a character against the backdrop of an interstellar war. His relationship with Misa wasn't really agonized over until well later in the series, at the point where he was starting to abandon the childish attraction to Minmay because he was growing up, growing more responsible. The love triangle in Frontier is the focal point of the story, where the triangle in SDFM was more a plot foil to show Hikaru's changes as a person from freewheeling stunt pilot youngster to responsible military leader. I just don't see Alto making that sort of character progression...

Frontier, at the moment to me, seems like it's going to be more about Ranka's growth as a character than anything else, and that's why I'm certain we'll see the polls shifting heavily in her favor over the course

[Mercurial Morpheus]

She had always been obsessing over the ear ring. It wasn't until it was lost in battle, that she gave up on seeing it again. Sheryl began to feel attracted to Alto when she realized he wasn't star struck like all the other males she'd met (considering he knew fame as an actor, it is little surprise). Particularly when he took her for a tour of Frontier. She opened up to him in ep7 regarding her past which was quite a step for her.

That I got. It's just the whole earring thing. I must have missed it. She just seemed to go from, "I want nothing to do with you" to, "You, take me places. Now!' ;;

Thanks for trying to clear it up. I get it as is, just not how it got there. Like her personality shifted a bit. Some spotty writing is all.

Well I saw Sheryl's whole kissing of Alto as a "marking her territory" thing. She saw Alto worrying over Ranka and sought to attract his attention with herself. The more popular Ranka gets Sheryl will either grow colder and more competitive or relax a bit and let Ranka take the spotlight for a change and possibly persue Alto more agressively. I can see her getting pretty ruthless when it comes to competing for the affections of a guy... One doesn't become a teenage pop-idol by chance...

Oh sparks are going to fly. That much is certain. The preview suggested that Sheryl's definitely going to be in a better position for time together. Episode ten was kind of a joke in it's setup. Outside of the cute Zero touch, and the Sheryl Kiss/Ranka realisation, it's easily the weakest episode thus far.

Got sniped on such a short post. man I suck.

Interesting views Dio (outside of the Friends bit, I always hated that show ^_-). Hence but thoughts on the two being sort of mirror images. As for Alto, that's why I've been saying the show needs better chara development.

Edited June 13, 2008 by Mercurial Morpheus

[Swampstorm]

People are a bit worked up at Animesuki over the whole "who will end up with whom" issue, right now. Much character bashing has ensued, especially towards Sheryl, given that her actions can seem so ambiguous at times. It's unfortunate that you happened to walk into some of the backlash.

I've discussed the character inconsistancy issue before, so perhaps I can try and talk this one out with you as well. Unless there's a better thread for this elsewhere, of course.

As for me, I'm a tad undecided. Going on first impressions, I'm more a Ranka fan, as I still trying to figure Sheryl out. Having had over four months of "Sheryl's a real work-centric bitch" sure as hell made her characterization a bit confusing so I'm going to have to rewatch the start of the series. Right now, she seems to go from, "I want nothing to do with you" to "Hey, I lost my earring, so I'm going to obsess over you and flirt while we find it and use you as my personal tour guide/chance to take a break from my workaholicness". I keep feeling like I missed an episode, or someone on staff rewrote her character a bit between two episodes into a bit of an uptight at times scatterbrain. She sort of reminds me of a costume designer I've worked with. Pretty nice person once you talked to her, but cold pro when it came to work. You mess with her stuff wrong, she'll let you have it, but it was nothing personal. At least the whole Galaxy thing sort of explained her quirkiness.

This one was a bit tricky for me as well. The feeling on my part was more of an "age"-related issue: before the date episode, Sheryl mostly acts like she's a late twentysomething woman. Afterwards, she swings between 'a kid in a toy store' to 'thoughtful and slightly troubled teen' and occasionally back to 'mature and driven' again.

This really only started to make sense only after episode six (in perhaps one of her least reactionary moments), where she explains that she was grew up without a family. She's had to mature quite rapidly in order to cope with the pressures of being a child star. The sights that Alto shows Sheryl are rather mundane, when you look at it (This is an observation tower... and this is a shopping mall...) but Sheryl is in awe of everything she sees. Alto is not just acting as a tour guide of Frontier; he's also acting as a guide to Sheryl's missing childhood. Seeing as she's held it all in for the past seventeen years, it's only natural that this 'release' takes place quite dramatically.

Sheryl wants to ride the shiny EX Gear.

Sheryl still takes her work seriously. Whether it be in jotting down a sudden inspiration, trying to set up a photoshoot, or even giving out career advice, Sheryl quickly switches back on to the job that she's spent most of her life in training for, pleasantries be damned. Even the things that she finds fun and enjoyable eventually find themselves integrated back into her work: her date becomes inspiration for a song, and her newfound love of flying becomes part of an advertising campaign to save Galaxy. She is a workaholic, and it is one of her greatest weaknesses.

What I think people find so appealing about her character is how these different elements come together. On one hand, she has a playfulness and childlike sense of mischief that make her endearing, while her singleminded drive, confidence, and her ability to think on her feet make her a character who wins respect. Where a classical tsundere uses strength as a mask for weakness, Sheryl is simply nothing more than a character with an unusual set of strengths and weaknesses. This distinction often makes her act in ways that are more unpredictable than many seemingly similar characters that we may be familiar with.

As for Sheryl, I'd like her more if not for the oddity detailed above. Maybe I sat between episodes a day or two more than I should of, but I just couldn't place her relationship with Alto. I kept asking early on, "Why are they hanging together again?" I can see why they added the whole concert incident. Otherwise, going from Deculture Edition, they have no connection whatsoever. As such, it affects my view of her and a somewhat inconsistent character. it's odd, as I usually love characters like her (confidant and strong, yet with a cuteness that betrays a vulnerabilty, in otherwords a bit of a Tsundere and I absolutely love Tsundere).

The initial phase was a bit quick, but then again, both the relationships are. Ranka meets Alto twice before she starts texting him as if the two have been girlfriends for ages, and Sheryl starts going out of her way to tease Alto from the moment that they step out of the shelter in episode three. What unbridled animal magnetism!

Alto does give a fair bit of himself away during episode three, though. He shows himself to be quite driven, which Sheryl can relate to, he doesn't give her special treatment, and he doesn't take advantage of her embarrassing mishap in any way. By time the date starts, Sheryl feels quite comfortable with him, given how straightlaced he is (she's confident that he won't do anything inappropriate when she steals the charm around his neck, for example.) Not to mention the fact that she'd already figured out how easy he was to tease by the end of episode three. But most of their initial bonding took place during the date.

I like that she's supporting Ranka. They've definitely toned down her surlyness. Though it's sort of obvious that she knows Ranka's crush on Alto, and the episode ten bit did seem like a bit of a stab at her. Maybe that's her intention as well. Though episode ten itself was kind of random (especially the whole Alto coming out of nowhere part, and what actually became of the original Mao actress-hurt/dead-who cares, right?) Still, even I'm shocked at her poor performance. She's a lot easier to put your finger on as shes more consistent. Her "Wha 'bout My Star" is better anyway.

I've seen this idea presented a number of times as well. I think at least part of it comes from the focus on Ranka's viewpoint; this is the second kiss between Sheryl and Alto that we've seen a 'cut-to-Ranka's-reaction'. With the repeated occurrance, the natural reaction is to question if it is deliberate.

But when you think about it, it's a fairly tricky thing to pull off deliberately. Ranka is far away on the beach, and Bobby is actually physically blocking the line of sight between Ranka and the beach hut when Sheryl starts to lean toward Alto for the kiss.

Little did Sheryl know that in the latest edition, quarter-zentrandi come with darkvision, x-ray vision, binocular vision, movable hair, and a base THAC0 of 10.

If you want to make sense of what happened, you'll need to go back to the scene where Alto first finds out that he has to do a kiss (when the original actress was still cast as Mao, rather than Ranka). Sheryl teased Alto a bit, but she also looked worried about how he was taking it. When Sheryl comes to talk to Alto at the beach, her response to Alto's worries about Ranka's ability to do the role was "But what about yourself?" So it looks like she had originally intended to come help Alto while Bobby helped Ranka. A combination of Sheryl's rapidly growing feelings towards Alto, his feigned nonchalance, and Sheryl's impulsiveness were probably what brought on the kiss.

On Sheryl's part, the kiss was less of a statement than it was a question. She's initially giddy just after the kiss, but then there's a long, awkward pause where she tries to read Alto's expression (who is still busy trying to mentally process what just happened). When she can't read his response, she covers it up, thinking that she's gone too far. It's quite an impressive scene because the dialogue is essentially "mimed out" to the audience, rather than made explicit. So while the scene can leave you feeling quite uncomfortable and awkward, it's difficult to pinpoint why until you scrutinze it in more detail.

It also highlights how very vulnerable Sheryl has become as far as Alto is concerned, in spite of all her internal strength. There's a very gradual transition here that can be traced through episode five and seven, and it's a lot of fun to watch. But that's a story for another time.

As for winner, my money's on Ranka. Though Keith's Misa analogy is an intriguing thought (though Sheryl's no Misa), this series has verged on SDF Macross remake vibes why to much. It seems fairly obvious that Sheryl was more the Minmay of the two (position, not personality-wise). Though the episode 11 teaser suggests otherwise now. Still, they like using MacrossTV plot elements and then twisting them right before you can say, "rip off!. Though Sheryl's position at the moment seems to be as a catalyst for Ranka to grow more of a spine given the whole kiss bull.

Minmay is Minmay, Ranka is Ranka, Misa is Misa, and Sheryl is Sheryl. These homages point in so many different (opposing!) directions that I wonder if they aren't simply there to encourage wild speculation and uncertainty. Take each as a unique character in their own right, and you'll get the most out of the experience.

I understand that, as of now, Sheryl can be difficult to connect to, since we've gotten so little in the way of monologues from her. But keep a close eye on her; there are a lot of small, quick changes in her expression that can be easily be missed on a first watch. Or a second. But she's all there.

Edited June 13, 2008 by Swampstorm