Macross Frontier Plot Theories...

[dreamweaver13]

dreamweaver

I'm just being overly cautious with what is known at this point. Personally, I believe the Vajra to be intelligent; or more to say I believe the Queen Vajra to be intelligent, an intelligence she can direct through any of her bio-mechanical drones. So far an individual Vajra cut off from the Queen has little intelligence it seems, at least if Leon is to be believed...a possibly dubious source of reliable information.

There definitely appears to be Ender's Game parallel, though Ender's Game is by no means the only or first science fiction story to feature a story with hive-like aliens and the problems of communication between two species that share little in common or context. The Vajra do bear some resemblance to the description of the buggers (and also the aforementioned xenopmorhps from Alien/Aliens), the v-type virus does remind me of the piggies in the Speaker For The Dead sequel and of course one could make a parallel between the Dimension Eater and the M. D. Device in effect if not in function.

I think the Macross Frontier ending is going to turn out quite differently than Ender's Game; likely much happier and much more true to Macross. The role of music, singing and culture will be prominent plot points.

i agree. i DON'T want it to end like ender's game at all. or any of the sequels for that matter. it's just similarities, after all.

but hey, after ep 14, looks like you were right. who DIDN'T feel for the Vajra when they were being shot down when they already stopped fighting? Sk is really toying with our biases by this point.

now that you mention the piggies... yeah, i guess the virus can play into that. if it's revealed that the vajra reproduces through that virus, then we have another "BINGO!" on our hands. or in that case, two ender species in one.

[wolfx]

Speaking of piggies, does that mean the story ends with Alto vivisecting Ranka and she becomes the new Yggdrasil of a new planet or something?? Then it will be in line with Kawamori's tree-hugginess.

[VF-25 Messiah]

It seems to me, the goal of Grace's faction might possibly be the destruction of the Vajra as a race? She seems intent on spreading hate between Vajra and humans, and uses Leon to keep people on frontier from learning too much about the Vajra (to prevent them from learning that the Vajra are something more than violent bugs?). Question is what would her motive be? Revenge? Seems too simple. Given the corporate nature of Galaxy, there's bound to be some corporate plot behind it all (Which other's have stated many times I'm sure)

To the Vajra, humans must seem very violent as a species. While they're going to be blamed for the destruction of Galia 4 by the humans, from their POV, the humans just destroyed the planet in an attempt to take out their fleet... which was then subsequently bombed the hell out of with Reaction weaponry. Things going along very nicely for Grace.

Also as has been stated in this thread, If Frontier stays true to its Macross roots, the later part of the series will be centered around overcoming these huge rifts that have been created, using the power of song, love and culture. Frontier seems to be shaping up to be a true Macross series

[Mr March]

Yeah, I think episode 14 is VERY telling. In fact, I'm a little surprised how much it fits into my theory. The Vajra were definitetly on the short end of the stick for the first time and you can tell Ranka is traumatized after what she's just learned about them. I agree Kawamori and Co are definitely messing with us. I wouldn't have it any other way

I never had any doubt that music, singing and culture would be prominent in the plot of Macross Frontier. Wouldn't be Macross if it didn't The thing I didn't understand up until just recently was "how". And there's still plenty of unknowns that I need answered. But for the first time, I feel confident I know the path the story has taken even if further down it's still winding.

I'm so hooked on this series

Edited July 11, 2008 by Mr March

[Sulendil Ang]

IMO, I think MF will going to deal with three major themes: capitalism, destiny vs freewill and the idea of "the universe is not big enough for two species". In fact, the last two themes seems to get more attentions in recent episodes, I will not doubt that Kawamori will make the finale based on those issues.

My own take: I think Grace's fraction is motivated by two goals: money and total domination of galaxy by humans. Perhaps just like Quamzin, they believe any contact between two species will only finally end in a total annihilation of one of them, and indeed, this world is just too small for two different races to live "happily ever after". SW1 may just only reinforce their point. And since wars are going to happen at the end, why don't just make them happen quicker and grabbed some cold money at the process?

On the other hand, if Ranka turned out to be a Vajra queen-to-be, I think her character's main theme will become just like Alto's: fate vs. freewill. Will Ranka accept her fate as Vajra Queen and acts as one just because she had the "cursed" blood of Vajra flowed in her body, or will she do what Alto did, who give no damn about it and decides to do what she really want?

I'm not too sure how music and culture going to solve those dilemma, but I think in the end, it will be music that provided the answer to those themes presented in MF, especially the "the universe is not big enough for two species" part. After all, it's music that makes humans win the SW1 at the first place.

[CF18]

++ with above.

My take:

Vajra was either another weapon created by proto-culture, or was a threat of the proto-culture and was the reason why Zentradi was made.

Unlike Zentradi which is so similar to human that they can mate, Vajra is a very different species and is impossible for human to communicate with. Ranka's ability to 'talk' to Vajra may become the special bridge that can allow human and Vajra to make peace, and she was modified by her parents for that purpose. Alternatively her ability also allow human to tame Vajra, which then allow human to control or exterminate them, and that would be why Grace's side rescue her.

Ranka's setup is a bit similar to Nausicaä in _Nausicaä of the Valley of Wind_ manga - both adopted a young bug, and have some ability to communicate with leader bug.

[VFTF1]

Well, one got the inclination the Vajra were sentient judging by their reaction to Ranka's song in episode 5.

What can I say. I love Macross.

VFTF1

[Mr March]

Unlike Zentradi which is so similar to human that they can mate, Vajra is a very different species and is impossible for human to communicate with.

I agree. It's again another example of Macross Frontier deconstructing Macross. Every similarty turned on its head. The Zentradi could easily communicate with the humans. With the Vajra, something as basic as communication is really hard for humans. Though they do share one similarity in that there is more to them than just mindless weapons of warfare. But that's Kawamori for you, ever the believer in both sides of the story.

Sun Tzu, the art of war, sympathy for the enemy is one of the virtues of the ideal general

Edited July 11, 2008 by Mr March

[Kronnang Dunn]

Ranka's setup is a bit similar to Nausicaä in _Nausicaä of the Valley of Wind_ manga - both adopted a young bug, and have some ability to communicate with leader bug.

Indeed... I believe at the end she's the one who will stop the War, either by mutating into a Vajra Queen herself or by communicating with the remaining Vajra.

Btw... This was posted in the news thread...

The name of Ranka's mom is Ranshe.

So...

RANka

SHEryl

Could this mean that Sheryl is a clone of Ranka's Mom while Ranka is Ranshe's true daughter?

Edited July 12, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[RedWolf]

Indeed... I believe at the end she's the one who will stop the War, either by mutating into a Vajra Queen herself or by communicating with the remaining Vajra.

Btw... This was posted in the news thread...

The name of Ranka's mom is Ranshe.

So...

RANka

SHEryl

Could this mean that Sheryl is a clone of Ranka's Mom while Ranka is Ranshe's true daughter?

For now we have suspicions that both Ranka and Sheryl being of Nome blood.

Indeed in the other thread that both Ranka and Sheryl being orphans with a affinity for their mothers or perhaps their mother.

We don't know why yet Ranka has the V-type virus or why was Sheryl isolated in Galaxy only having a momento of her mother.

[Gubaba]

Theory #5848594920540954: Grace is really Mao Nome downloaded into a cybernetic body. She's still pissed about Shin ditching her to go play spaceman with Sara. She decides humanity needs to be destroyed and is manipulating events to use the Vajra, who she created, to destroy everyone in one glorious orgy of universal violence.

Almost right, except you're wrong about who Grace is, and what her motivation is...

HINT:

They saved Kakizaki's brain, and he's mad as hell for getting killed by U.N. Spacy...

[Master Dex]

While Sheryl with her last name makes sense to be a Nome descendant I don't think Ranka necessarily has to be one as well. The Dr. Mao thing doesn't mean she had to have been her mother or grandmother, she could have been the doctor for Ranka's family on the Research Fleet (of course we know Ranka's mother is named Ranshe Mei but you know my point). Even then we don't know what kind of doctor Mao was, she may have not even have been a medical doctor at all. I can believe it if the relation does end up as such but I don't want to jump the gun and say Sheryl and Ranka are related just yet.

Edited July 13, 2008 by Master Dex

[Isamu Starkiller]

Theory # 5848594920540954.2

Mao Nome, alway attracted to technology (radio/generator on Mayan) stayed aboard the Asuka after the events of M0 and went to Macross tech institute (she kept her tools), there she met a young man, 1/2 human 1/2 Zentran named Guld, he was in piloting school and had crazy uncontollable green hair, the two fell head over heels for each other but their careers pulled them in different directions. Dr Mao became a pioneer in cybernetics and Guld Joined UN Spacy as a test pilot, on graduation day he got a hair cut and found that he'd be shipping out to a new plant...Eden. The day soon came for him to go and gave Mao a beautiful pair of earings. He never knew Mao was preggers with twins. She knew how much Guld loved to fly, and let him go...

Edited July 14, 2008 by Isamu Starkiller

[RedWolf]

Theory # 5848594920540954.2

Mao Nome, alway attracted to technology (radio/generator on Mayan) stayed aboard the Asuka after the events of M0 and went to Macross tech institute (she kept her tools), there she met a young man, 1/2 human 1/2 Zentran named Guld, he was in piloting school and had crazy uncontollable green hair, the two fell head over heels for each other but their careers pulled them in different directions. Dr Mao became a pioneer in cybernetics and Guld Joined UN Spacy as a test pilot, on graduation day he got a hair cut and found that he'd be shipping out to a new plant...Eden. The day soon came for him to go and gave Mao a beautiful pair of earings. He never knew Mao was preggers with twins. She knew how much Guld loved to fly, and let him go...

Lol I don't think so since it is obviously it is Ranshe who is the halsie Zentradi.

3 human grandparents + 1 Zentradi grandparent = 3/4 human and 1/4 Zentradi Ranka.

[Master Dex]

Theory # 5848594920540954.2

Mao Nome, alway attracted to technology (radio/generator on Mayan) stayed aboard the Asuka after the events of M0 and went to Macross tech institute (she kept her tools), there she met a young man, 1/2 human 1/2 Zentran named Guld, he was in piloting school and had crazy uncontollable green hair, the two fell head over heels for each other but their careers pulled them in different directions. Dr Mao became a pioneer in cybernetics and Guld Joined UN Spacy as a test pilot, on graduation day he got a hair cut and found that he'd be shipping out to a new plant...Eden. The day soon came for him to go and gave Mao a beautiful pair of earings. He never knew Mao was preggers with twins. She knew how much Guld loved to fly, and let him go...

I don't know if the spoiler tag is necessary unless your doing it on purpose for drama. This is a theory thread.

Thing is we know Guld always held strong feelings for Myung even after the 'incident' and especially because he didn't remember what really happened. Of course it is possible he was able to have other relationships after the initial ordeal and just seeing Myung again in Plus brought old feelings back out. Besides that though the timing doesn't seem to add up, Isamu and Guld only seemed in their early 30's at most in Plus which would put them in diapers after M0, let alone the fact no human and Zentradi had crossbred before Max and Millia in SDF Macross so Guld must be younger in fact. Meaning either Mao is a lot older than Guld when they met long after Zero or it wasn't him.

Of course I can see that this theory is most likely meant to be droll but I just had to chime in on it.

[VFTF1]

I would like to step back for a moment and ask about something based on DYRL.

One of the most significant differences between SDF M TV and DYRl (in my opinion), is that while the power of song, love and culture in SDF M TV were generally shown through various instances, and no one song was "significant" (even during the battle with Boldoza, Minmey switched between Love Drifts away and Shao Pai Lon), in DYRL, we had Misa decoding the ancient Protoculture song which proved absolutely key in the final battle, and which seems to have had some grander significance than Minmey's other songs.

I bring this up because, up to this point, the Macross Saga has given us three noteworthy clues about the Protocultures plans for humanity:

1. That they travel the stars and cease fighting (Macross Zero)

2. The song Do You Remember Love which is specifically a Protoculture song and shows that they seem to believe that Love is natural in sentient species; and forgotten only through social, unnatural society which creates conventions and routines often contrary to the natural inclination of the heart; and these routines must be overcome by the power of music and song. (DYRL)

3. That the Protoculture are "waiting" for a symbol of peace amongst the species (Mylene, who was part Zendradi, part human) - such a symbol was, for instance, MISSING in Macross Zero (Macross 7)

Now - with Ranka being part Vajra; we seem to have a symbol of the possibility for peace between radically biologically different species.

But I wonder - what is this song of Ranka's - Aimo? It's not the "song of the Earth" --- is it anothe ancient Protoculture song?

Will we learn what the significance of music and song was within Protoculture society? We have learned about the general significance and power of music and song in Macross viz humans - but presumambly everything Dr. Chiba discovered the Protoculture knew long before.

If the Vajra are indeed biological weapons produced by humans - they are in that sense reminiscent of the EVIL that the Protoculture themselves produced. Brera and Grace, on the other hands, are a kind of varient of the Zendradi. The Zendradi were genetically manipulated beings created for warfare. Cyborgs like Grace and Brera are similarly "created" by humans to serve malign purposes that it might be difficult to get otherwise morally conscious people to perform.

The distinct difference here is that humans - the "bad guy humans" at least, in contradistinction (presumably) to the "bad guy" Protoculture who may have brought about all of the strife that brought the Protoculture to ruin, know full well about the power of song - and I get the feeling that by mainpulating and trying to control Ranka and Sheryl, they are trying to gain the power of song as yet another military weapon rather than risk having their budding dreams destroyed by song.

Do you think the Protoculture had a similar problem? Were there those amongst them who tried to make song a weapon for evil?

VFTF1

[RedWolf]

Does the song of destruction ring any bell? It is the song that activates the Birdman's annahilation protocols just in case miclone races became dangerous and warlike.

The song of creation is certainly what Sara Nome did being in harmony with the island's ecosystem thru song.

You can also this with Basara's singing, the song of creation, which raises spiritia levels in humans, Zentradi, Protodevlin and even space whales.

Gepelnitch calls this Spiritia Creation.

But Basara succeded where the Protoculture failed. Reach the hearts of his listeners.

Both Ranka and Sheryl are Ranshe's legacy it will take both of them to reach the hearts of Vajra, humans and Zentradi.

[VF-25 Messiah]

I do believe you bring up interesting points. As per Ranka's flashback in ep 13, it does indeed does seem like its not "song from earth" which means it has to be something else. After seeing episode 10 I had wondered if aimo wasn't indeed another rendition of the Mayan song in zero (yes I mean the real one, not just the movie theme) The mention of Dr. Mao then made me think she might perhaps have handed it down to her offspring, which Ranka might just be.

In Zero I almost felt song's were used as catalysts and control mechanisms for protoculture technology. I remember people raging when Sara's singing caused stones to float, but did ever really learn if they were just rocks? Remains of something the protoculture had built, designed to respond to song (or at least, that song) seems fairly plausible to me. Also the rapid growth of life. Again a control mechanism? If so it suggests that song was indeed a very important and integrated part of protoculture society.

So did they try and use a song as a weapon and did it ultimately doom them? Who knows.

[Duke Togo]

Does the song of destruction ring any bell?

Yeah, Macross II

[Gubaba]

Type Type Type

VFTF1

If Ranka is part Vajra (and I'm not prepared to defintively say she is, yet), and the Vajra are alien, then Ranka is looking a lot like Mylene, the "Symbol of Peace." But kind of a Symobl of Peace who has come to early, and was created unnaturally.

But if the Vajra are created by humanity, then yes, your theory is quite plausible, the biggest difference being that the Protoculture only created seven EVIL, and even that small number was too many. But the Vajra are also much weaker than the EVIL (although they definitely LOOK scarier ). And if a full-sized Zentradi stepped on Brera, they might be able to kill him...so the Protoculture weapons are still stronger, but yes, they could be of the same type.

But if that's the case, I really can't see Froniter having a happy ending.

[VFTF1]

Ok.

I finally figured it out.

Grace is engineering the Vajra-Human war in order to insure Honey/Sheryl a place in history greater than Lyn Minmey - and record sales to boot.

Think about it. The more intense the war and hatred, the more need there will be for a Lyn Minmey type songstress and the more easy will it later be to control the various fleets.

It's all a conspiracy geered towards raising Sheryl's ratings. A big elaborate PR gamble.

Now - you might be wondering why, if Grace is in on this with Honey/Sheryl - does Grace give Sheryl pills that make her sick?

Ah!

Now, all we know for sure is that the words "Witch Craft" are written on the pills - so they are certainly an insidious brew - but not to make her sick...no!...These pills are necessary so that Sheryl does not revert back to looking like Honey!

This also goes to explain Sheryl's growing jealousy for Ranka, who keeps muscling in on his man...

In fact - the only one who can stop Sheryl/Honey is Bobby - but he has conventiently never gotten much exposure to Sheryl/Honey - an in episode 10 he was too busy focusing on Ranka to take not of Honey/Sheryl's true nature...

Anyways - episode 14 has convinced me that record sales are Grace's true motive.

VFTF1

[Gubaba]

Just came across this today...wonder if it fits...

The Golden Vajra is stronger than Wood,

The Mind Ape could bring the Wooden Dragon to submission.

When Metal obeyed and Wood was tamed they were at one;

When Wood was loving and Metal kind they worked together.

One host and one guest with nothing to keep them apart,

With the Three in harmony they had a mysterious power.

[dreamweaver13]

Just came across this today...wonder if it fits...

The Golden Vajra is stronger than Wood,

The Mind Ape could bring the Wooden Dragon to submission.

When Metal obeyed and Wood was tamed they were at one;

When Wood was loving and Metal kind they worked together.

One host and one guest with nothing to keep them apart,

With the Three in harmony they had a mysterious power.

journey to the west, right?

damn, now you make me wiki.

seems the golden vajra referred to here is the weapon of the god Indra. also called the glistening vajra.

hell. i dunno. vajra, the weapon of the protoculture (gods). stronger than humans (wood) and metal (zentraedi)?

all going west (i.e. galactic center)? and the mind ape would be... ranka??

all sounds crazy. but who knows?

[Gubaba]

journey to the west, right?

Damn you're good!

And yes, the Mind-Ape would HAVE to be Ranka...

[Kronnang Dunn]

The last theory I've heard is that L.A.I. is interested in the Vajra for their Fold capabilities and how they seem to produce SD Crystals... Supposedly at some point either Luca or Michael is going to find out and confront them, only to be killed later... probably by Grace...

Edited July 16, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[papabear]

I'm rewatching ep 11. I'm getting a strong vibe that there is a 'green' message in Macross F, that humans should be living in harmony with nature and not tampering with it; tampering leads to serious negative consequences.

[Mr March]

I'm thinking you're right on that one, papabear. I'm not sure if it'll lead to anything overt or dramatic, but there is definitely a subtle environmental vibe running through some of the episodes. The equilibrium the humans have with their colony ship environments, the Ecological Protection Act that Nanase mentions, and so on.

[dreamweaver13]

i agree. the green vibe is there. but if the big reveal down the line is that the vajra was merely the result of an ecological unbalance (think Godzilla), i would consider it a letdown.

[papabear]

Godzilla? Wasn't Godzilla the product of a US a bomb?

The series would be about either living in harmony with or exploiting and destroying nature, and this goes back to Macross Zero. (Along with music being a power to help nature.) We'll have to see who is responsible for the creation of the Vajra (humans or Protoculture?)?

Edited July 18, 2008 by papabear

[Master Dex]

Godzilla? Wasn't Godzilla the product of a US a bomb?

The series would be about either living in harmony with or exploiting and destroying nature, and this goes back to Macross Zero. (Along with music being a power to help nature.) We'll have to see who is responsible for the creation of the Vajra (humans or Protoculture?)?

I never really knew what Godzilla's origin was really.. but seeing as he is practically a resident of Japan, being the result of a nuclear bomb makes some sense.

[Morpheus]

I never really knew what Godzilla's origin was really.. but seeing as he is practically a resident of Japan, being the result of a nuclear bomb makes some sense.

I can see Earth Girl Arjuna plot here Just make the Vajra a Zerg and Galaxy a Protoss wannabe, that should cool things up

[Kronnang Dunn]

I can see Earth Girl Arjuna plot here Just make the Vajra a Zerg and Galaxy a Protoss wannabe, that should cool things up

Indeed. More and more I'm convinced that the Vajra will end up being terraforming bugs, like I mentioned earlier...

Btw... I just watched episode 15...

Those voices in android Grace's head...

What are they?

1) Rebel A.I.s?

2) The collective minds of some rogue scientists from the 117th fleet? (Ranka's Mom and the rest of the bunch... Ranka's Dad? Dr. Mao?)...

Or perhaps...

3) The last remains of the Protoculture?

So many possibilities...

I'm getting a Blade Runner/Dune: The Butlerian Jihad feel from this series so far...

Bilrer = Tyrell

Grace and cohorts = Thinking Machines

Edited July 18, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Morpheus]

Dude, relax a bit will ya, I'm afraid you're the only member who will got severe nerve breakdown when this series is over

In another note, the terraforming bugs went berserk seems plausible

[Kronnang Dunn]

Dude, relax a bit will ya, I'm afraid you're the only member who will got severe nerve breakdown when this series is over

Actually is more like my head is going to explode during the ending, hahaha...

Edited July 18, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[CF18]

Vajra was either another weapon created by proto-culture, or was a threat of the proto-culture and was the reason why Zentradi was made.

The last line of ep 15 was "The ultimate dream of proto-culture, which they could not accomplish in 500,000 years." - well that shot down my first guess but support my second guess.

About the voices in G's head - I think they were real people. Well at least Grace was, and they asked her why was she smiling when she is about to destroy her old home, probably refering to the WTF-04. Base on the ending credit there are 4 other voices - old man, middle age man, young man and a young woman.