Macross Frontier Plot Theories...

[Kronnang Dunn]

Four - Brera is not what he appears to be, I think that he had some kind of deal with the devil thing going on with as to how he got his cyborg body. This is due to the fact that he seems to know Ranka from somewhere and cares about her.

Did you watch episode 13? It was confirmed there that Brera is Ranka's brother...

Edited July 9, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Hikuro]

well not exactly confirmed since we don't see a face, we see a small edge of hair........that's about it, but yes, he probably is or was her brother at one point....no he's just a cyborg without his own memories either.

[Kronnang Dunn]

well not exactly confirmed since we don't see a face, we see a small edge of hair........that's about it, but yes, he probably is or was her brother at one point....no he's just a cyborg without his own memories either.

And the harmonica... and the spiky blonde hair... and the white and blue colors in the outfit...

Plz don't deny the obvious...

Cyborg or not, somewhere in his subconcious mind he still remembers his sister. Time will tell...

Edited July 9, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[dreamweaver13]

And the harmonica... and the spiky blonde hair... and the white and blue colors in the outfit...

Plz don't deny the obvious...

Cyborg or not, somewhere in his subconcious mind he still remembers his sister. Time will tell...

Kronnang Dunn... the new macross compendium.

seriously, i agree with you 100 percent that brera is ranka's brother. but i wouldn't go so far as to declare it an absolute certainty etched in stone. this is kawamori we're talking about, author of the WTF-1.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Kronnang Dunn... the new macross compendium.

I have edited it too...

[VF-25 Messiah]

And the harmonica... and the spiky blonde hair... and the white and blue colors in the outfit...

Plz don't deny the obvious...

Cyborg or not, somewhere in his subconcious mind he still remembers his sister. Time will tell...

Dont forget we basicly see his face too, don't see how anyone could even be doubting it.

[dreamweaver13]

Dont forget we basicly see his face too, don't see how anyone could even be doubting it.

but i told you, that's edward eldric! so unless ranka's another body for alphonse...

[Duke Togo]

Dont forget we basicly see his face too, don't see how anyone could even be doubting it.

"He's more machine than man, now..."

It was her brother, but is it really her brother anymore?

[hobbes221]

Did you watch episode 13? It was confirmed there that Brera is Ranka's brother...

I saw that, just wasn't sure if that was Brera or not.

[Mr March]

Theory time.

I think the Vajra might be victims.

Grace and her cohorts are manipulating the New UN Spacy and the Vajra into conflict. The ultimate irony is the Vajra might actually be benevolent, but disasterous first contact with them 11 years ago (the tragic 117th Research Fleet) lead to hostilities with humans. When the Vajra encountered the humans a second time (by chance or yet another manipulation by Grace and her cohorts) they simply attacked out of self defense. :shock:

Think about it; the Vajra we see (the bio-mechanical weapons) are incapable of communicating with the humans and supposedly have small brains incapable of intelligence. In the mind of the Vajra, they are the victims, only responding to the "attacks" (intrusions in their territory) by the New UN Spacy, a force that they KNOW to be "hostile" based upon the Vajra's first encounter with the humans 11 years ago.

The Queen Vajra we see in episode 13 might be capable of communication. And who does she choose? Ranka. It seems not only the Vajra Queen but the regular Vajra are drawn to Ranka.

1) the Red Vajra seemingly "attacking" Ranka in episode 1

2) the captured Vajra "reacting" to Ranka's singing

3) the Vajra again "violently" pursuing Ranka on Island 1, so Alto, Ranka and Sheryl hide in a bunker.

4) the Vajra going after Ranka on Gallia 4 and capturing her without harm.

Look at the Vajra's actions through their eyes. Feel for the Vajra as though they were more than monsters. The Vajra are desperate to communicate with humans, but they don't know how

Then the question becomes, why Ranka? Perhaps Ranka can communicate with the Vajra through..."music"! So Macross Frontier might be a classic science fiction tale of tragic first contact with a truly alien species, but with a VERY typical Macross spin and emphasis upon music.

Edited July 9, 2008 by Mr March

[Xeros]

sounds good, but...

As I recall, the first contact was 19 years before frontier (2040)

[Shun]

but i told you, that's edward eldric! so unless ranka's another body for alphonse...

yeah!!!

u think so too?! actually i found the "daddy" outfit is very similar to Edward... hair color also...

[Shun]

Theory time.

....

Look at the Vajra's actions through their eyes. Feel for the Vajra as though they were more than monsters. The Vajra are desperate to communicate with humans, but they don't know how

Then the question becomes, why Ranka? Perhaps Ranka can communicate with the Vajra through..."music"! So Macross Frontier might be a classic science fiction tale of tragic first contact with a truly alien species, but with a VERY typical Macross spin and emphasis upon music.

Gotta agree the Vajra seem to want Ranka for some reason.

However, i'm still puzzled over what happened to the v-type virus/berserk hydra... seemed like it attacked everybody / anybody in sight, including Ranka. I suppose the v-type virus is somehow related to the vajra?

[azrael]

"He's more machine than man, now..."

It was her brother, but is it really her brother anymore?

Whoa, someone actually paid attention to me back in episode 10...

[Mr March]

Xeros

If that were true, Ranka would be about 25

Shun

Well, there's still other factors to consider, but I'm sure that's the basic plot. We still don't know about v-type viruses or why Grace and her cohorts are doing this. There could be financial motives (the SMS, LAI, et cetera) or it could be something else entirely.

[J.T. Silversmith]

Mr March I think you have a very good point there, The Vajra may not be actively trying to attack the humans, just defending themselves. They do however seem to aggressively follow and eradicate anyone they decide is an enemy, even to the point of aggressively attacking a lone pilot in an ExGear, even if the ExGear is unarmed. (Alto in Ep. 1) Sometimes I wonder if the Vajra are more interested in killing the pilots than destroying the VFs they are piloting. (Like Gillliam.) They also seem to like using human ships as nests for their eggs.

And then we have two instances where the Vajra capture to people without harming them. What is different about those two people that the Vajra would capture them rather than kill them. Luca had the experimental fold communication device, with it's conspicuous purple stone, and Ranka, who seems to react to the Purple stones as well. It can not be just the purple stones, because the Vajra have always reacted aggressively to Alto, even when he had Sheryl's earring. I think it may be that the Stones must be "active", giving off some type of super dimensional energy. Perhaps that is what is going on with Ranka, for some reason she has some sort of energy signature the Vajra react to. (embedded stone fragment, experimental implant, protoculture blood, whatever.)

Lets take the Vajra are an insect hive idea and run with it. Hive insects on Earth use pheromones to communicate with each other, what if the Vajra use super-dimensional energy waves to communicate. It is possible, they do use super-dimensional energy to fold space and to power weapons, so perhaps that is how the central brain controls the other Vajra. When they detect super-dimensional energy they could interpret it as "I'm a Vajra don't attack me" or as simple as "you smell like a Vajra". That could explain why Ranka and Luca were captured for further investigation rather than killed. It could also be possible that Ranka could be in heightened emotional states, be broadcasting her emotions to the Vajra. For example when Alto accidentally grabbed her in the cockpit of the VF-25 in episode two, she screams, and is feeling"GET AWAY FROM ME", and the Vajra hear it and react by retreating.

I also believe that she broadcasts her feelings when she sings. To speculate further I think Ranka may be to the Vajra like Basara was to the Protodevlin, or Minmay to the Zentradi. She will be the one who gives them what they truly need.

I think Grace and her faction are using the Vajra and Vajra derived technology to start a new war. They are using Brera to prevent anyone else from learning too much about the Vajra and thus challenge the technological advantage that they have. They want to be the next OTEC company, but based on the Vajra. Then they start a war and sell weapons to the various colonies and fleets. I also think Leon is just a pawn, he thinks he has a lot of power, and hopes to align himself with Grace's group, and perhaps gain full control of the government.

[Xeros]

Xeros

If that were true, Ranka would be about 25

Look the vajra entry of the compendium

[RedWolf]

Xeros

If that were true, Ranka would be about 25

Actually the first discovery of the Vajra was 19 years ago. (Likely by the 117th fleet)

11 years ago 117th fleet incident happened.

Actually given that Grace is a b*tch of a cyborg manager I wonder if she has any relation to Sharon Apple. Myung who was the personality template for Sharon Apple was producer/manager too.

The Sharon Apple incident happened the same year the Vajra was discovered. Coincidence?

Unless the Vajra is another version of the Birdman and they heard a song of destruction. (That why every fleet should have a Basara. Spiritia Creation = Song of Creation)

[Mr March]

J.T. Silversmith

I think any aberations are just red herrings to throw off the audience. The Vajra appear ruthless, evil, and even malicious because that's exactly what the writers want us to believe so far. They want us to think of the Vajra as monsters. They even give them a monsterous, demonic appearance. How could these horrible, beastly things possibly be benevolent? I'm almost positive it's a trick and a lesson, not to judge others by their appearance.

So VERY Kawamori

And what about the New UN Spacy? Look at their actions through the eyes of a Vajra. The Vajra might even be mortally terrified and as a species feel they are threatened by an enemy they cannot communicate with nor begin to understand. I wouldn't be surprised if the Vajra employ "any means necessary" to destroy the humans. We'd pretty much do the same were we in their position...assuming of course that my theory is correct. And if the Vajra are a hive-like society, their natural tendencies would only amplify this little tragedy.

Personally, I think I'm on to something here and I'm getting more and more confident with this theory the more I think about it. If I were a writer, it's exactly the kind of trick I'd use on the audience.

I believe that when the plot progresses to a certain point, the story will demand we look at the Vajra in a whole new light. It just fits so beautifully with all the setup thus far. More than that, it gives Macross a chance to be Macross, factoring in the ever present Macross theme of the power of music and singing. Ranka will become the next Minmay, the next Basara, the next Sara. Bringing understand between humans and Vajra; bringing culture to those without.

So VERY Macross

Edited July 9, 2008 by Mr March

[Zinjo]

And what about the New UN Spacy? Look at their actions through the eyes of a Vajra. The Vajra might even be mortally terrified and as a species feel they are threatened by an enemy they cannot communicate with nor begin to understand. I wouldn't be surprised if the Vajra employ "any means necessary" to destroy the humans. We'd pretty much do the same were we in their position...assuming of course that my theory is correct. And if the Vajra are a hive-like society, their natural tendencies would only amplify this little tragedy.

Kinda like a role reversal to SW 1...

[RedWolf]

J.T. Silversmith

I think any aberations are just red herrings to throw off the audience. The Vajra appear ruthless, evil, and even malicious because that's exactly what the writers want us to believe so far. They want us to think of the Vajra as monsters. They even give them a monsterous, demonic appearance. How could these horrible, beastly things possibly be benevolent? I'm almost positive it's a trick and a lesson, not to judge others by their appearance.

So VERY Kawamori

Great you just made me think the Vajra as nothing more than heavily armed Tachikomas.

[J.T. Silversmith]

Mr March I am in complete agreement, the Vajra are the Zentradi from SW1, and probably like Vrlitwhai's fleet specifically. Ranka is Minnmay, and I am afraid that the NUNS Government / Leon /Grace are like the Boddole Zer Main Fleet. Despite all the people saying singing will not work on the Vajra, I do believe Ranka will reach them through song. I actually don't see any "aberrations" in their behavior, they are by instinct, ruthless predators. Very "Nature red in tooth and claw", but once Grace and her group stop poking them with sticks, it should be possible to find a non violent solution to the Vajra problem.

[dreamweaver13]

Mr. March,

I've been leaning towards the same way for a long time now. As the plot will progress my money is on the vajra as a peaceful species. or at the very least, even if they're not peaceful by nature, they were not the ones who made the first move.

Vajra merely on the defensive? i would tend to think so. perhaps what the 117th fleet did to them was so terrible (hey, if you're an intelligent species, and you're experimented on as if you're an animal, you'd be pissed off to) that they tend to over-react whenever there's any human presence nearby. they kill to protect once there's a confrontation. and in that sense, they can be very nasty killers.

Remember that on galia 4, they were quite satisfied to just let the zentraedi and humans roam the planet, despite the fact that the vajra queen already probably sensed them. even when alto and ranka were close enough, they didn't really attack until they were finally discovered to be there (ok, they kidnapped ranka, but that doesn't apply coz she seems to have a special link to them). Which goes to show that the vajra are quite content to be just left behind in their corner of the universe... until the humans came along.

But March, i wouldn't go as far as describe them as with little intelligence. ah, did you see the common yet subtle trap you fell into? They look like bugs, they act like bugs, they act more like a hive, than as individuals, then they must be less intelligent species! Probably the same trap the 117th fleet fell into. given the vajra's behavior, the 117th probably presumed they were a non-intelligent species, closer to animal than humans. their bias towards human intelligence and individualism fooled them. and thus they experimented on them (probably painfully) without realizing that they were actually experimenting on an intelligent, conscious species.

The premise of the Ender's Game novel keeps coming back to me. i'm starting to sound like a broken record, but i can't help it, it's really there. The war between bugs and humans there was

basically a result of misunderstanding between species. Each species misunderstood the other. The bugs, having a hive mentality, thought that killing off a few humans wouldn't matter much to humanity because they had no idea of the concept of individualism. At the same time, the humans thought the bugs weren't capable of rational and peaceful discourse because, well, they were bugs. The realization of a common ground came a bit too late.

Shun,

Yes, noticed it since the time they flashed his image in ep 13. The brother looks so much like eldric, down to the hair and the color of the shirt/jacket he's wearing. doesn't help that his dad (or whoever it is in the picture) also wears the same type of clothes.

[Master Dex]

I am almost reminded of Starship Troopers in how humanity thought the bugs were dumb at first but they turned out highly intelligent. Of course in that the bugs really did hate humanity and just wanted to destroy it. Humanity was the first aggressor there as well but the bugs didn't let it go so it was a bit more mutual there. In the case of the Vajra I'd agree with you all that they just fear humanity and attack them so humanity can't kill them all which at this point humanity probably wouldn't hesitate to do just that.

[dreamweaver13]

I am almost reminded of Starship Troopers in how humanity thought the bugs were dumb at first but they turned out highly intelligent. Of course in that the bugs really did hate humanity and just wanted to destroy it. Humanity was the first aggressor there as well but the bugs didn't let it go so it was a bit more mutual there. In the case of the Vajra I'd agree with you all that they just fear humanity and attack them so humanity can't kill them all which at this point humanity probably wouldn't hesitate to do just that.

Carl Jenkins (played by NPH): "it's afraid....IT'S AFRAID!!" *cheers all around*

Best.Line.Evah!

Edited July 10, 2008 by dreamweaver13

[Master Dex]

Carl Jenkins (played by NPH): "it's afraid....IT'S AFRAID!!" *cheers all around*

Best.Line.Evah!

That is what Frontier needs, a psychic, and a squad of valks called Razak's Roughnecks. That'll get the job done.

Razak (pronounced Rajak): "Come on Apes! Do you want to live forever!?"

[dreamweaver13]

That is what Frontier needs, a psychic, and a squad of valks called Razak's Roughnecks. That'll get the job done.

Razak (pronounced Rajak): "Come on Apes! Do you want to live forever!?"

if ozma shouts that out next episode, i'll scream silly delight!

[Master Dex]

if ozma shouts that out next episode, i'll scream silly delight!

Of course that could mean he might die with a Vajra biting his legs off asking for someone else to shoot him. However I too would love that.

[wolfx]

I'm with Mr March and dreamweaver on the Vajra as non malevolent theory and i seperately drew the relation to Ender's Game as well. So here's an update on my theory summary from pages back:

Grace is in league with LAI.

Bilra owns SMS. May own LAI as well. Bilra may be Grace and if not, she's in league with Bilra.

Bilra faction wants to start war with the Vajra to sell weapons. Manipulates Vajra to attack humans.

Alternatively or inclusively, Bilra/LAI faction wants to "use" the Vajra due to their ability of super-fold (can go through faults) communications and starting a war against them to possibly capture/subjugate the queen is the best way to do this.

Luca may be in league with Bilra as well....hence his "pep-talk" with Leon. But he cares for his friends rather than his "business" more.

Vajra queen communicates with her soldiers through the Super Dimensional crystals. Ranka was a human experiment by her parents to explore human ability to communicate/control the Vajra. Bilra faction knows about it but treats it only as a hypothesis since its not proven and they're doing well manipulating the Vajra without controlling them. (hypothesised conversation between between Grace and Brera in ep 13)

Alternate theory: Ranka is a Vajra "probe" sent to learn about humans. Very much like Eureka from Eureka 7 and JAM from Yukikaze. (unlikely)

The Galaxy fleet is held hostage by Bilra faction(wild unproven theory)

V-type virus??? A virus that infects lower life forms (ie: Hydras) to become a node for communication/mind control??? (wild unproven theory)

Very possibly, Aimo is a Vajra melody.....just like DYRL? was a Zentran one. Ranka asks her mom if its a song from earth. Her mom says no....then the memory fades off.

Edited July 10, 2008 by wolfx

[Mr March]

dreamweaver

I'm just being overly cautious with what is known at this point. Personally, I believe the Vajra to be intelligent; or more to say I believe the Queen Vajra to be intelligent, an intelligence she can direct through any of her bio-mechanical drones. So far an individual Vajra cut off from the Queen has little intelligence it seems, at least if Leon is to be believed...a possibly dubious source of reliable information.

There definitely appears to be Ender's Game parallel, though Ender's Game is by no means the only or first science fiction story to feature a story with hive-like aliens and the problems of communication between two species that share little in common or context. The Vajra do bear some resemblance to the description of the buggers (and also the aforementioned xenopmorhps from Alien/Aliens), the v-type virus does remind me of the piggies in the Speaker For The Dead sequel and of course one could make a parallel between the Dimension Eater and the M. D. Device in effect if not in function.

I think the Macross Frontier ending is going to turn out quite differently than Ender's Game; likely much happier and much more true to Macross. The role of music, singing and culture will be prominent plot points.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Theory time.

I think the Vajra might be victims.

Grace and her cohorts are manipulating the New UN Spacy and the Vajra into conflict. The ultimate irony is the Vajra might actually be benevolent, but disasterous first contact with them 11 years ago (the tragic 117th Research Fleet) lead to hostilities with humans. When the Vajra encountered the humans a second time (by chance or yet another manipulation by Grace and her cohorts) they simply attacked out of self defense. :shock:

Think about it; the Vajra we see (the bio-mechanical weapons) are incapable of communicating with the humans and supposedly have small brains incapable of intelligence. In the mind of the Vajra, they are the victims, only responding to the "attacks" (intrusions in their territory) by the New UN Spacy, a force that they KNOW to be "hostile" based upon the Vajra's first encounter with the humans 11 years ago.

The Queen Vajra we see in episode 13 might be capable of communication. And who does she choose? Ranka. It seems not only the Vajra Queen but the regular Vajra are drawn to Ranka.

1) the Red Vajra seemingly "attacking" Ranka in episode 1

2) the captured Vajra "reacting" to Ranka's singing

3) the Vajra again "violently" pursuing Ranka on Island 1, so Alto, Ranka and Sheryl hide in a bunker.

4) the Vajra going after Ranka on Gallia 4 and capturing her without harm.

Look at the Vajra's actions through their eyes. Feel for the Vajra as though they were more than monsters. The Vajra are desperate to communicate with humans, but they don't know how

Then the question becomes, why Ranka? Perhaps Ranka can communicate with the Vajra through..."music"! So Macross Frontier might be a classic science fiction tale of tragic first contact with a truly alien species, but with a VERY typical Macross spin and emphasis upon music.

I agree completely with this. In fact, I believe that the Vajra are a terraforming species. Hell, maybe they were the ones responsible for Earth as we know it...

Maybe that was N.U.N.S. interest in them at first... While Leon/Grace/Bilrer faction want them for those goddamned Super Dimension Resonance Crystals...

Edited July 10, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[s001]

The Vajra wants Ranka just because she got some crystals on her stomach!!! Really guys is that simple. They're desperately searching for more crystals because is what they 'eat'. That's the reason why they went to Frontier when Grace destroyed Galia 4 with their largest supply of crystals on it. And that's the reason why they attacked Galaxy and Frontier in the first place.

[whispo]

I also feel that the Vajra aren't "hostile persé", they seem either influenced into fighting humanity or they are afraid of humanity. (btw I find it funny how alot of people started to link the story with Ender's game after these last few episodes. Frontiers story does feel familiar to that series).

I think the "grace/Bilrer" faction is responsible for the manipulation sofar (going back as far as the 117th research fleet) and that the galaxy is also linked to this (liked the theory of galaxy beeing taken hostage by "the faction", but rather expect it to be staged as a whole by the galaxy crew). From Bilrer's point it seems like an awsome way to make money and from Grace's point ... well I have no idea what she is in it for .....

Im sure they're after the crystals and the Vajra's fold techniques or that they were atleast trying to make weapons out of the Vajra (my money is still on the two critters ((Ranka's and the one from the swamp) to be original Vajra, pre-manipulated). The Vajra seem like a test weapon gone wrong.

I actually felt sorry for the Vajra when Ranka started crying at the end of 14 ... somehow it felt as is some small bugs were getting stepped on and it felt really sad to see them getting wiped out like that.

Who knows they might turn out to be good in the end

[DeeBot]

Theory #5848594920540954: Grace is really Mao Nome downloaded into a cybernetic body. She's still pissed about Shin ditching her to go play spaceman with Sara. She decides humanity needs to be destroyed and is manipulating events to use the Vajra, who she created, to destroy everyone in one glorious orgy of universal violence.

Edited July 11, 2008 by DeeBot

[RedWolf]

With the next Sheryl "Concert" does seem reminicent of Sharon Apple.

Grace being an AI compounds it.

It wouldn't surprise me if the people of Galaxy is hypnotized and under control by Grace.

Sheryl will be the wrench in Grace's plan much like Myung was to Sharon Apple.