Macross Frontier Plot Theories...

[Morpheus]

Didn't you watch Macross 7? Mylene never chose...

Macross 7 doesn't count since it defies all Macross rules

For the plot, I'm holding myself to speculate anything or the spoiler market will be crash causing low rating for Frontier.

[Kronnang Dunn]

I decline to speculate, being more of the WAFO (Watch And Find Out) school, so I just wanted to say this:

Kronnang Dunn, I ADORE your avatar!

"...Deculture..."

Thanks Gubaba...

Btw... I believe that Dr. Mao is Sheryl's mom and she gave her the Super Dimension Resonance Crystal earrings... She must have been like 45 years old when Sheryl was born. Dr. Mao must have been part of the 117th Research Fleet... That's why Ozma knows her... (and judging by Ozma's grim expression when he talked about her perhaps the experiments she made are what attracted the Vajra or she was captured/killed by them).

Sheryl's blood type according to the Macross Compendium is a strange type called "Alpha"... Could this be the Birdman/Mayan blood? There's a very strong possibility she inherited it from her mother Dr. Mao Nome...

However... Ranka and Brera are another story... Is probable they are both related (That's why they both know Aimo)... But Brera is now a cyborg and only has vague memories of his sister.

Ranka can't be related to Sheryl since according to the Macross Compendium her blood type is "Oz"... a zentran blood type... She must have a Super Dimension Resonance Crystal inside her... That's what causes her belly "glow"...

I also believe that Sheryl and Ranka were part of some experiment of Dr. Mao Nome to find the Birdman (with her sister on it)... But it attracted the Vajra instead. Maybe after the attack on the 117th, 2 different corporate factions got one part of the experiment each. The faction of Bilrer got Ranka (that's why Ozma's been babysitting her) and Grace's faction got Sheryl.... Bilrer's faction established on Frontier, while Grace's was on Galaxy. Each one wants to harness the power of controlling the Vajra. That's why they are competing and blocking each other... Who is controlling the Vajra? Perhaps what was left of the Birdman after it was nuked in Macross Zero (Thus... Shin and Sara are dead... Or maybe they fused with it...)...

Edited June 6, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Duke Togo]

Didn't you watch Macross 7? Mylene never chose...

The opening song is about a love triangle.

[Sulendil Ang]

For those who support the Galaxy-Vajra conspiracy theory, here's an interesting post I write earlier in the episode 9 discussion thread:

Talks about Vajra-Galaxy conspiracy, guess what I found from Macross M3's page from Macross Compendium...

Features Regult, Glaug, Tomahawk, Defender, Phalanx, Gnerl, four new variable craft (VF-9, VF-14, VF-3000, Variable Graug) and entirely new concept mecha (U.N. insectoid bioweapons developed from Protoculture genetic technology and Zentradi final weapon with two different combining mecha modes depending on ending) (bold mine)

FYI, Dancing Skull squadron meet those things in 2022, and the earliest account of Vajra is on 2040.

[d3v]

Sheryl's blood type according to the Macross Compendium is a strange type called "Alpha"... Could this be the Birdman/Mayan blood? There's a very strong possibility she inherited it from her mother Dr. Mao Nome...

What exactly was Sara's blood-type in Zero? I recall it also started with an a, alpha something-or-other.

Edited June 6, 2008 by d3v

[Ork_dreadnought]

Micheal and Nanase? Don't you mean Micheal and Clan Clan?

It would explain Clan Clan's miclone form...

Yeah, that would have been funnier, I'll do better next time.

Um, I was trying to create the most unlikely theory possible.

For example, the Vajra are actually pawns of rogue mardook elements escaping from another dimension.

EDIT: I have to stop fiddling with my posts so much.

Edited June 6, 2008 by Ork_dreadnought

[Mr March]

I like the theory that the Vajra are possibly constructs built by the Macross Galaxy fleet from samples of the AFOS. They go out of control or are deliberately unleashed and factions within the Macross Frontier fleet are trying to cover up the secret. The VF-27 uses technology derived from the Vajra experiements and the Vajra themselves are affected by music to a degree just like the AFOS was.

[d3v]

Um, I was trying to create the most unlikely theory possible.

For example, the Vajra are actually pawns of rogue mardook elements escaping from another dimension.

No no no, they're actually the latest incanation of the Invid and Ranka's actually descended from the Regess...

/ducks!

[Sulendil Ang]

I like the theory that the Vajra are possibly constructs built by the Macross Galaxy fleet from samples of the AFOS. They go out of control or are deliberately unleashed and factions within the Macross Frontier fleet are trying to cover up the secret. The VF-27 uses technology derived from the Vajra experiements and the Vajra themselves are affected by music to a degree just like the AFOS was.

Or better yet, the Galaxy fleet picked up UN's failed bioweapons project and continue their research, and voila, we get the Vajra.

[Duke Togo]

No no no, they're actually the latest incanation of the Invid and Ranka's actually descended from the Regess...

/ducks!

Which is where Rick Hunter comes in as the director of the Bird Human movie.

[RichterX]

What exactly was Sara's blood-type in Zero? I recall it also started with an a, alpha something-or-other.

It was Alpha Bombay, Bombay is an actual blood type

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_blood_group_systems

[Shun]

Vajra and Brera/Galaxy wants to collect more purple gems. Why?

BTW, for blood type, siblings could have different blood types, so its possible Ranka could be Sheryl's sister even though they have different blood types. and Alpha blood type could be special that it only gets inherited by the first child. just a wild guess

[Mr March]

Sulendil Ang

Here's another interesting thought: what if the Vajra really are a separate race, but have some kind of AGREEMENT with the Macross Galaxy fleet. The Macross Galaxy fleet agrees to share something with the Vajra and the Vajra share something with the Macross Galaxy. Things go bad and the Vajra turn on the M Galaxy fleet. Now the M Galaxy players (Mr. Bilrer, Brera Sterne, Grace, possibly Leon) are desperately trying to cover up their involvement with the Vajra by destroying the Vajra and anyone knows about them. Perhaps?

[Legend of TSXer]

I really don't like the idea of either Sheryll or Ranka being the daughters of Mao. I really suck at math right now (brain not turned on) but could they be grandchildren instead? So they could be cousins? That I could so see being ok.

Mao obviously survived the Rain of Death somehow and was still so distraught wiht the loss of Shin and Sara and so many others, that she married/mated with a Zentradi at an early age? I suck at math and typical ages of giving birth.

[jenius]

Legend, go back a page, we already went through all the math. Mao would indeed be a rather old mother (especially in anime/macross terms). Grandchildren is far more likely. Seeing as Sheryl has Mao's last name... I'm guessing these would be children out of wedlock?

[Legend of TSXer]

Legend, go back a page, we already went through all the math. Mao would indeed be a rather old mother (especially in anime/macross terms). Grandchildren is far more likely. Seeing as Sheryl has Mao's last name... I'm guessing these would be children out of wedlock?

I read parts but must have forgotten bout it. Or maybe I was reading the posts in the Ep 10 thread about them being daughters of Mao. sorry....

[Impreszive]

This is a thought on the Vajra, mostly. Little disjointed. I've been working on my MBA most of the day.

I think they are bio-mechanical constructs that the Protoculture used as their (for lack of any better term) transportation. I was thinking about the Mayan artifact and how it was essentially a bio-mechanical construct. Sara "piloted" it by merging with the machine. It had immense power, not unlike the red Vajra, and seemed to be extremely durable.

I also thought about how these machines were attracted to people who had their singing ability and their special blood type, and in a way the reaction of the "rocks" to Sara when she sang and the way the red Vajra reacted to the singing on Frontier, tells me that there is some sort of connection. Remember how the sentient Mayan artifact spoke to Sara? I wouldn't be surprised if the principles might be the same with these Vajra. I think that the attack order may have held over from the artifact returning to wherever it had come from at the end of Zero.

I'm wondering now if those characters or at least some sort of sign of them will show up in this show now.

[Ork_dreadnought]

I also thought about how these machines were attracted to people who had their singing ability and their special blood type, and in a way the reaction of the "rocks" to Sara when she sang

That's it! Its the rocks who are controlling the Vajra, under the Orders of Dana Sterling!

No, seriously, your Protoculture transport theory is the best I've heard so far. That said, if the protoculture could make stuff like the Vajra, why did they bother with the Zendtradi?

I'm starting to think the Zentradi were made to fight the Vajra back in days before the protoculture imploded.

[Impreszive]

That's it! Its the rocks who are controlling the Vajra, under the Orders of Dana Sterling!

No, seriously, your Protoculture transport theory is the best I've heard so far. That said, if the protoculture could make stuff like the Vajra, why did they bother with the Zendtradi?

I'm starting to think the Zentradi were made to fight the Vajra back in days before the protoculture imploded.

See, that is the issue. Without a doubt, the Protoculture were masters of genetic manipulation. I think the Zentraedi were one of the first expirements with cloning and genetic manipulation, but they had souls and individual personalities. This willfulness makes it difficult for them to control. Move the technology forward a bit and now you can bio-engineer an organic lifeform that can be "programmed" or controlled manually. They can grow themselves, and can be self sufficient without the chance of a rebellion. Maybe.

Take this a step further. That "Supervision Army" that has always been talked about, what if the Vajra are that army? That is a long shot, to be honest, but it gives something for the Zentraedi to fight on a galactic level. That solution can give a reason for the downfall of the Protoculture, who are now caught in a titanic war that they cannot control and are rapidly being killed off because of it.

So we have the Bird Human, a Protoculture (or group of them) who show up and find similar conditions to their homeworld many, many millenia ago. Their genetic science allows them to put a long term plan in motion to restore their race, or at the very least, create a race with the ability to end the conflict and correct the Protoculture's mistakes.

Somehow, I think that the Bird Human was never meant to be found, at least not until the right time. The Fortress crashing on Earth had to have been unanticipated, and the resultant conflicts (which may have been watched by the sentient sentinel) could have been construed as a failed expirement. Shin and Sara may have represented some sort positive result that was being looked for by the Protoculture? Consequently, Bird Man (and Sara) take Shin with them to wherever it had been "programmed" to return to.

In the meantime, the Vajra were still out there running autonomously, fighting or waiting for whatever the next step was to be.

Wow....I sound like a crack-pot anime fan.

Edited June 6, 2008 by Impreszive

[Kronnang Dunn]

Take this a step further. That "Supervision Army" that has always been talked about, what if the Vajra are that army? That is a long shot, to be honest, but it gives something for the Zentraedi to fight on a galactic level. That solution can give a reason for the downfall of the Protoculture, who are now caught in a titanic war that they cannot control and are rapidly being killed off because of it.

Actually according to the Official Chronology of Macross developed by Studio Nue/Big West/Kawamori/etc. the Supervision Army was composed of brainwashed Protoculture and Zentradi. They had mecha and ships similar to those of the Zentradi. The Protodeviln were the true masters/creators of the Supervision Army. However, there's always the possibility that the Vajra could have been also developed by the Supervision Army Protoculture since they had advanced technology...

Edited June 6, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[MisaForever]

Actually according to the Official Chronology of Macross developed by Studio Nue/Big West/Kawamori/etc. the Supervision Army was composed of brainwashed Protoculture and Zentradi. They had mecha and ships similar to those of the Zentradi. The Protodeviln were the true masters/creators of the Supervision Army. However, there's always the possibility that the Vajra could have been also developed by the SA Protoculture since they had advanced technology...

It's not Protoculture, it's ROBOTECHNOLOGY!!!!!

[Ork_dreadnought]

Actually according to the Official Chronology of Macross developed by Studio Nue/Big West/Kawamori/etc. the Supervision Army was composed of brainwashed Protoculture and Zentradi. They had mecha and ships similar to those of the Zentradi. The Protodeviln were the true masters/creators of the Supervision Army. However, there's always the possibility that the Vajra could have been also developed by the Supervision Army Protoculture since they had advanced technology...

Which sorta goes back to my point about the Zentradi being built to destroy the Vajra. Why were the Zendradi made in the first place? What treatened the protoculture? As is that threat still around? Is that the Vajra? You don't just bring billions of war machines into existance for no reason.

That's something which has been bothering me for a while, I'm hoping Frontier will give me some answers on this.

Edited June 6, 2008 by Ork_dreadnought

[jenius]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the Protoculture began fighting amongst itself. To settle this brewing internal conflict the Protoculture created two armies to determine who would win this internal struggle. They then commanded their armies (the Zentraedi) like chess pieces. It was an attempt to fight a war without any Protoculture actually dying. Then, when the war reached a stalemate one side of the Protoculture developed a new weapon to put on the playing board, the Evals. Unfortunately, the Evals were so powerful they created a tear in the universe that sucked over some super nasties (a la Howard the Duck) who possessed the Eval weapons. These possessed Evals went by the name the Protodevlin and began brainwashing whoever they could in a conquest for more and more energy. The possessed Zentrans and Protoculture became known as the Supervision Army. In order to combat the Supervision Army the non-possessed Protoculture had to createdZentraedi without limitations... meaning they could kill both Zentrans/Meltrans/and Protoculture without hesitation (but with a legend given to them that killing Protoculture is bad). The massive army the remaining Protoculture constructed proceeded to stifle the Supervision Army and wipe out all Protoculture in the process.

That leaves the question of the Varja still wide open. The Protoculture empire was vast, to say the least, so it's possible some escaped the reach of their Zentraedi puppets and created super powerful defense systems. Since NUNS seems to be ignorant to them then I think we can deduce the Zentraedi are ignorant to them which means that the Varja can't be as old as the Zentraedi (if there is a Protoculture relationship). We know the Protoculture saw their demise coming for a while... that's how Earth was tampered with and why we got the events of MacZero.

Edited June 6, 2008 by jenius

[Oihan]

I'm sticking with the theory that we won't see the Kite at all in Frontier. Alot of rumors going around that they want to market this internationally.

Meh, because of Blu-Ray I'm not too worried about domestic releases. Call me selfish, but I'd actually prefer it if they used the Kite. It won't stop me from importing!

[Kronnang Dunn]

Which sorta goes back to my point about the Zentradi being built to destroy the Vajra. Why were the Zendradi made in the first place? What treatened the protoculture? As is that threat still around? Is that the Vajra? You don't just bring billions of war machines into existance for no reason.

That's something which has been bothering me for a while, I'm hoping Frontier will give me some answers on this.

Well, if you read the Official Chronology, the Protoculture developed the Zentradi 100 years after they started space colonization and they used them to expand their sphere of influence.

- PC 2500s

The mass production of giant biological weapons for proxy warfare, "Zentradi," is begun. The "Zentradi" contribute greatly to the expansion of the Protoculture's sphere of influence.[PC 2600s] -

The PC possesed a Stellar Republic that dominated the whole galaxy, so no wonder they needed those massive armies of giants. Is a big galaxy, u know?

So basically they just created the Zentradi for conquering/controlling the galaxy...

Edited June 6, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Ork_dreadnought]

Well, if you read the Official Chronology, the Protoculture developed the Zentradi 100 years after they started space colonization and they used them to expand their sphere of influence.

That doesn't really answer my question. So they had an army for conquest, granted, that's a partial answer. But who were they conquesting? If you get my meaning? The only race of note humanity has run into is Zentradi, who have had in the past HUGE numbers in men and material (and still do, though arritition means that the fleets aren't what they were). Presumably, they to fight something other than each other in order to exist in the first place. But, do we know who these foes were? That's my question.

I suspect the Vajra in this, because they are somewhat removed from all other examples of protoculture artefacts, save the Bird Human in M0, and that's flat-out odd in the first place.

[jenius]

Again, if it were the Varja the Zents would be familiar with them. Whatever the Zents were there for (I really think they were just a huge police force and wildcard against unanticpated threat from the galactic wilderness) wouldn't come as a surprise. Some Zentraedi advisor would say "Oh yeah, those bug things? We were fighting those eons ago."

[misterryno]

Someone on the GML mentioned that Marina Ismail in Gundam 00 is an old hag at age 24. When called on that, he mentioned that the Japanese refer to women who are that old as "Christmas Cake". i.e. no one wants them after the 24th.

While I can't vouch for the veracity of the supposed slang, it does fit with the ages that we often see in Japanese mecha shows.

Damn dude.... ....that means my fiancee is Christmas Cake....

[jenius]

Yeah but you're marrying her so she doesn't need to worry about it.

[Kronnang Dunn]

That doesn't really answer my question. So they had an army for conquest, granted, that's a partial answer. But who were they conquesting? If you get my meaning? The only race of note humanity has run into is Zentradi, who have had in the past HUGE numbers in men and material (and still do, though arritition means that the fleets aren't what they were).

The Zentradi were created as Proxy warriors. Since their fleets were huge and they only knew fighting, is probable most species they came into contact and refused to surrender to the Protoculture were simply wiped out by them... exterminated... extinct... finito. Is a very very big Galaxy, so the possibilities are endless.

According to the Compendium after 2012 there are still 3 million Zentradi ships scattered across the Galaxy. However, the UN government of allied Humans and Zentradi are the reigning hegemony in near-Earth galactic space until the events of Macross Frontier.

So far the only sentient alien species other than Zentradi that has been found by the Earthlings are the Zolans (from the Macross 7 OVA)... They are humanoid and could have been created by the Protoculture too.

Presumably, they to fight something other than each other in order to exist in the first place. But, do we know who these foes were? That's my question.

I suspect the Vajra in this, because they are somewhat removed from all other examples of protoculture artefacts, save the Bird Human in M0, and that's flat-out odd in the first place.

If you watched Macross Zero there was a spiral symbol in many Protoculture artifacts. The Red Large Vajra has those symbols on its armor too...

The characteristics of the Vajra are too advanced and waaay above any type of technology the Zentradi had. If you analize the Zentradi mecha/ships designs they are pretty basic and simple in design. The Vajra on the other hand are a result of much more advanced technologies that merge mechatronics and genetic engineering.

If the Vajra are indeed product of the Protoculture they must have been developed many many years after the Zentradi were created...

[flabortast]

My theory is the Vajra are bio weapons bred through genetic cloning of the AFOS(Birdman). Cave drawings in episode 8 seem to show some connection with the Vajra and the AFOS. Vajra came out of control so they clone Sara Nome to attempt to control them like she controlled the birdman long ago. Sheryl was the product of the cloning but it seems her songs do not have any apparent effect on the Vajra so they just orchestrate her rise to stardom so they can study her more with Grace watching over her. Would be a blow to Sheryl if her popularity was made up right? Ranka on the other hand seems to have a true connection to the Vajra and coincidentally Dr. Mao as Ozma pu it; "Is it fate that you have the role of Dr. Mao?" Perhaps Ranka is the one with pure Mayan blood? The little green thing is a baby Vajra I tell ya!

[Kronnang Dunn]

My theory is the Vajra are bio weapons bred through genetic cloning of the AFOS(Birdman). Cave drawings in episode 8 seem to show some connection with the Vajra and the AFOS. Vajra came out of control so they clone Sara Nome to attempt to control them like she controlled the birdman long ago. Sheryl was the product of the cloning but it seems her songs do not have any apparent effect on the Vajra so they just orchestrate her rise to stardom so they can study her more with Grace watching over her. Would be a blow to Sheryl if her popularity was made up right? Ranka on the other hand seems to have a true connection to the Vajra and coincidentally Dr. Mao as Ozma pu it; "Is it fate that you have the role of Dr. Mao?" Perhaps Ranka is the one with pure Mayan blood? The little green thing is a baby Vajra I tell ya!

Yes yes yes... This is one of the most probable theories so far.

Btw... Apparently the UNS also experimented with insectoid biomecha... Check this out!!!

"- Features Regult, Glaug, Tomahawk, Defender, Phalanx, Gnerl, four new variable craft (VF-9, VF-14, VF-3000, Variable Graug) and entirely new concept mecha (U.N. insectoid bioweapons developed from Protoculture genetic technology and Zentradi final weapon with two different combining mecha modes depending on ending) -"

Is from the Macross Compendium M3 Game Entry...

The game was released in 2001 for the Dreamcast...

Perhaps Kawamori took the whole Vajra concept from here? Maybe he kind of merged it with the Birdman stuff from Macross Zero...

Edited June 7, 2008 by Kronnang Dunn

[Morpheus]

Vajra -> macronization went wrong? Something like the one in The Fly movie.

[sdf2501]

Yes yes yes... This is one of the most probable theories so far.

Btw... Apparently the UNS also experimented with insectoid biomecha... Check this out!!!

"- Features Regult, Glaug, Tomahawk, Defender, Phalanx, Gnerl, four new variable craft (VF-9, VF-14, VF-3000, Variable Graug) and entirely new concept mecha (U.N. insectoid bioweapons developed from Protoculture genetic technology and Zentradi final weapon with two different combining mecha modes depending on ending) -"

Is from the Macross Compendium M3 Game Entry...

The game was released in 2001 for the Dreamcast...

Perhaps Kawamori took the whole Vajra concept from here? Maybe he kind of merged it with the Birdman stuff from Macross Zero...

Guess I'm going to have to hunt down that game and play it (along with VF-X and VF-X2).

[junior]

My girlfriend is 23... next year she will have earned herself a new nickname thanks to this little tidbit of information. Of course, that might backfire terribly and have her start pleading for a ring...

Damn dude.... ....that means my fiancee is Christmas Cake....

I refuse to be held responsible for any expected or unexpected harm or changes in relationship status (either up or down the marriage ladder) that results from referring to significant others as Christmas Cake!